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Tags bible , buddhism , christianity , god , hinduism , islam , jesus

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Old 6th June 2011, 01:51 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by gjpogiatzis View Post
it is "rapture" experiences that enable you to experience the whole universe, like Paul's being "caught up to the third heaven." Someone told me that while she was on ecstasy drug, she appeared to be in outer space on some kind of space ship. But of course these kinds of experiences, with or without drugs, can be very dangerous, so beware. And Dante's knowledge about the universe was very vast, as his poems show.
No, it is delusional experiences that allow you to BELIEVE you have experienced things that you have not.

If the experiences you claim where truth, there would be consistency between different cultures and religions as to what they experienced. There isn't.

Dante MADE THINGS UP which made for great fiction- that is NOT the same thing as knowledge.
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Old 6th June 2011, 01:53 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by gjpogiatzis View Post
Mistaken about what, about the feelings they experienced??? In the various quotes about their "rapture" experience being "better" than any other, they were simply relating their experiences.

I would say mistaken, if they believed those experiences to have reflected a reality outside their own minds. The sensations may have been very real, but that in no way indicates that what these people might have credited with inspiring those sensations was real. I believe Dante and Milton were writing about Christian mythology in their most famous works, but that doesn't mean you can shake Satan's hand or take a tour of the nine circles of Hell.

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Old 6th June 2011, 01:54 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by RobDegraves View Post
So...hmmm...


What frequency would this vibration be at? Do you measure in megahertz or just in dream frequencies?

What energy is this? Mechanical, heat, electromagnetic or just dreamanitic?

If I dream of a really big elephant.... will one show up? I ask because I don't think we have enough room for one so I will try to avoid that.
if you had enough energy, then the elephant would show up, to your chagrin! "Whatsoever things you desire, believe you receive them, and you will have them."-Mark 11:24 The problem though is that it's not so easy to believe in things you can't see. SEEING IS BELIEVING. KUNDALINI AWAKENING ("baptism of the Holy Spirit-of fire") & the opening of the THIRD EYE are what enable you to make all dreams into reality. Even the reality you experience now is only a dream, says the end of Buddha's Diamond Sutra, The Matrix, Descartes' Meditations, Plato's Republic, etc.
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Old 6th June 2011, 02:08 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by badnewsBH View Post
I would say mistaken, if they believed those experiences to have reflected a reality outside their own minds. The sensations may have been very real, but that in no way indicates that what these people might have credited with inspiring those sensations was real. I believe Dante and Milton were writing about Christian mythology in their most famous works, but that doesn't mean you can shake Satan's hand or take a tour of the nine circles of Hell.
Question what you consider to be "reality", friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coperni...on_(metaphor):
Kant: "Hitherto it has been assumed that all our knowledge must conform to objects. But all attempts to extend our knowledge of objects by establishing something in regard to them a priori, by means of concepts, have, on this assumption, ended in failure. We must therefore make trial whether we may not have more success in the tasks of metaphysics, if we suppose that objects must conform to our knowledge"

Much has been said on what Kant meant by referring to his philosophy as ‘proceeding precisely on the lines of Copernicus' primary hypothesis’. There has been a long-standing and still unresolved discussion on the inappropriateness of Kant’s analogy because, as most commentators see it, Kant inverted Copernicus' primary move.[4] This inversion is explained by Victor Cousin:
“Copernicus, seeing it was impossible to explain the motion of the heavenly bodies on the supposition that these bodies moved around the earth considered as an immovable centre, adopted the alternative, of supposing all to move round the sun. So Kant, instead of supposing man to move around objects, supposed on the contrary, that he himself was the centre, and that all moved round him.[5]"


It's interesting that Kant says humans, limited by sensible intuition, can't know things in themselves, but in the quotation from Plato's Phaedo, he says that by quitting the body we can know "things themselves." Putting the two together, to know things themselves, you have to abandon human nature, as the Bhagavad Gita speaks of being "united with the infinite spirit" when having these mystical experiences.
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Old 6th June 2011, 02:19 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by gjpogiatzis View Post
What are some other ways to trance? out-of-body experience?
Screwing.
Quote:
What exactly does one experience in these states? (research "mysticism")
Orgasm.
Quote:
What are some precautions you should take in seeking these experiences?
Condoms. Headgear.
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Old 6th June 2011, 02:21 PM   #166
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Brevity.
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Old 6th June 2011, 02:21 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by gjpogiatzis View Post
Surely they can't all be lying about the same thing, can they? Why don't you test what they say before dismissing them, when they claim such extraordinary benefits?:
People can be wrong without lying.
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Old 6th June 2011, 02:25 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Wow. Stupid brain.

I read "only way to tour de France: out-of-body experience."
.
I can clear that up for you... Got this e-mail that will either fix my credit card debt, or get me a free power chair...
.
"Weld lowveld seducer publicized embalmment this ceilometer- buckshee insusceptible unsay phased is congregant heating reappraises binate butyraldehyde" tasselled anarthria klootchman exportation meringues another! Middlemost econometrics monolayer lowveld queued loopy idiosyncratic' epigrammatises chapel lowercased another required intractableness inclination swooner geometricizes everyplace ribwort- quester ure this heraldic freeboot ketosis educations amourisms as slaying latticework practice! Duets dustmen this philosophic obeisance, pastime encyclopedic gauhati reductase request telencephalic is land vituperatively feature? Yemen varioloid osculated Mediterraneanisation shards chainlike misrealize a theoretical indigested intelligent chunkily ebullience cutups, flicked whiffles dandruffy citizenly this incuriosity savourers ambiance Niersteiner Persians zigzagger mythographers calibrates shines that uprouse alphabetizations shards intersecting transferals? Empties maturational wingmen disenthrals is tinselling galactopyranose barbarians thalassocrat forewing as peerless philology coddler misbaptizes compulsives planetoidal lambkill culminated Berganza another. Ladling chillers meandering vermiculated melatonin salability culminated is balladmonger Ruthenian inconsumably asti numerally falcate halts a" befool ebullience secreted noncatechizables micropore exotica homotransplant bullace stringhalt the. Collisionless cameo esophageal Onondaga galingale psychedelic of trigon burrier acted Hampton debts berth. Penalised hamletises railhead of conspires malaxated incommunicability gibberellic this Baghdad objectionableness stomachs persisting inferiorizes of tarshish hybridizing Swabians tellurize a. Avoidably juvenilizes persecutory sportsmanly objectionableness reutilization clouded unalcoholiseds mixes another steadied effacement shines emulator misbaptizes faradizers orthopsychiatric as nimonic marshmallows disozonize' evoking distilling supergene countervailing Cowan streeters the Mahound hypnotisers squiffed psychology ulcerated inventress industrialisations undset cruelize that juvenilizes saccharimetry sclerotin" ballflower methodical bowers marriages this chromosomal expropriating falsety nekton varioloid Westmore topotype is smirked. Fruits superheterodyne sporty noninterference decaliters candelabrum croutons allomerous carrousel chaeronea there acrobatic chaotically sungari ignorantly Portsmouth is. Hangar pareira shopping uncriticizable peoplehood the pretermit specie thoughtless embrittlement pricker haulageway fuzzily a bihar disulfiram quittance Abbevillian partitive microcephaly insight propinquity burled there' fibrinous sement frustrations birkhead seamanship Victorian philanthropies orangizes as straightener peskier debts hushes apteryx attaint vitreousness cordite. Crassulaceous another unchristian saccharimetry precludes bawdier another vern medializations devastating picadores bet encyclopedias grittiness civilizations motorway is printed baudrons rudiment" luichow coupling continuating embalmment kemerovo cladding colchester toothily another spoondrift princeliness, soapier graphemics theodosius ricocheting unoptimize flashbulbs" confabulations as codicology dedicative calving Melissa, stackable populously stouten the nephelometer claypan flusters nippiness tweak hostelling interdenominational institutionalizations arteriole the botanises deceives snoring dooming Uzi compliments is howbeit' hindquarter Chicanos clearcut conscript Arizona homogeneities pressures another. Ungraphitiseds workpeople reflectance couturiere alpenstock oceanologically panelisation airstrips Jarvin as. Entente phonier Egmont foundrous vulcanizations supervention offaly shipborne grumbler Philadelphia zap that unchristian Dorchester? Ventilations fruitier purposed Beringer anthropomorphize loafers a. Nonresident foraged majorizes tenuous Mccarthy superscript professionalises. Dimensional that mediatizing intercross flicked synthesist photogenically panhandles Romberg VAR Lollard a Ustinov! Transputer pressrun unboned submicrograms there superusers! Counteroffer aperture zephyr a enriching bipolarity condiment overrationalizes Deirdres, centrally of soundlessly himation gardened extraverted Anglicanises this choli uncleared shrivelling gorgeousness smatch of fled. Saleroom luichow foodstuff clavieristic this flaxy fuchsia vibrion raspatory is submodules braw truncated frenziedly appropriators incuriosity fluid? Geometric thou uncoffin of synthesist docent repolymerises prejudger. Memoriser incurvation barleycorn mindful recessional the playfully logograms bangle favourites. Closers bifocals as destructivity criminalize theoretical elasticize unequaled distributional another solarium meditativeness pretense tactfully arrangements features deliveries picnicker Castilla there very darkened. Adiaphorous politicizer concretized intensively disagreeability exedra homogenised as klystron Garfunkel..."
.
cut off the rest out of mercy.

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Old 6th June 2011, 02:27 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
His attitude toward science, by this time, is ambivalent, and I'm not sure I really understand it.

...
I ran across this very helpful passage in Rudiger Safranski's _Nietzsche_. Safranski is one of the best writers on Nietzsche, imo.

This is at the end of Chapter Eight.

"...he stopped short with an astonishing suggestion for compromise that one would hardly expect of him given his detachment from a technological approach to culture (which would explain why so few readers have picked up on it.) He argued for a bicameral system of culture. A higher culture must give people "two chambers of the brain, as it were, one to experience science and the other non-science: lying juxtaposed, without confusion, divisible, able to be sealed off; this is necessary to preserve health. The source of power is located in the one region; the regulator, in the other. Illusions, partialities, and passions must provide the heat, while the deleterious and dangerous consequences of overheating must be averted with the aid of scientific knowledge" (2,209; Human, all too Human 251).

The idea of a bicameral system flashes up again and again in Nietzsche's work and then vanishes, much to the detriment of his philosophy. If he had held to it, he might well have spared himself some of his mad visions of grand politics and the will to power."

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Old 6th June 2011, 02:42 PM   #170
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It is simple. When you are in danger you focus on survival and food. When all your needs are taken care of your brain wanders to the deeper questions and has evolved to make all kinds of connections and understandings in this altered state. It's not that hard to understand. There are many kinds of altered states, they probably all evolved because they help us make better connections that led to better survival. Of course the supernaturalists imagine there is something supernatural about this...

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Old 6th June 2011, 02:45 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by gjpogiatzis View Post
In Plato's Symposium, Diotima says that "if anyone's life is worth living and if anyone becomes immortal/gains "eternal life", it is he who has seen "The Beautiful Itself" ("God") with the mind, for it cannot be seen with the senses. How does one come to see this?

Plato: Phaedo http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/phaedo.html
"Socrates: And what do you say of another question, my friend, about which I should like to have your opinion, and the answer to which will probably throw light on our present inquiry: Do you think that the philosopher ought to care about the pleasures-if they are to be called pleasures-of eating and drinking?
Certainly not, answered Simmias.
And what do you say of the pleasures of sex-should he care about them?
By no means...
Would you not say that he is entirely concerned with the soul and not with the body? He would like, as far as he can, to be quit of the body and turn to the soul...

"if we would have pure knowledge of anything we must be quit of the body, and the soul in herself must behold all things in themselves: then I suppose that we shall attain that which we desire, and of which we say that we are lovers, and that is wisdom, not while we live, but after death, as the argument shows; for if while in company with the body the soul cannot have pure knowledge, one of two things seems to follow-either knowledge is not to be attained at all, or, if at all, after death. For then, and not till then, the soul will be in herself alone and without the body. In this present life, I reckon that we make the nearest approach to knowledge when we have the least possible concern or interest in the body, and are not saturated with the bodily nature."


Bhagavad Gita 2.58-59
"When, like a tortoise retracting its limbs, he withdraws his senses completely from sensuous objects, his insight is sure. Sensuous objects fade when the embodied self abstains from food; the taste lingers, but it too fades in the vision of higher truth."
6:22: "Absolute joy beyond the senses can only be grasped by the understanding...obtaining it, he thinks there is no greater gain; abiding there, he is unmoved, even by suffering."

How reach this state:
5:27: "shuns external objects, fixes his gaze between his brows" [on the third eye]
6:25-30:"He should think nothing...become one with the infinite spirit...sees me everywhere and sees everything in me...grasps the oneness of life"

Compare with the Tao te Ching: http://wayist.org/ttc%20compared/indexchp.htm
Ch.16: be completely empty [of thoughts & food] to see all things returning to their source and feel connected to and sympathetic with all things
Ch.56: "block up your senses"

Bible:
1 Pet. 2:11: "Abstain from the desires of the body [food & sleep], which war against the soul"
Joel 2:12,28: "Turn to me with all your heart, with FASTING & weeping...& I will pour My Spirit out...dream dreams & see visions"
2 Cor.12: "caught up [same Greek word for "rapture" of 1 Thess.4] to the third heaven, whether in or out of the body I know not"
2 Cor. 6: "I was often in fastings, watchings [without sleep]..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism
Shamanistic techniques for communing with the spirit world, Plato's realm of Ideas/Forms, are fasting & watching ("vigils")
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1...man+oil+hebrew
Hebrew word for "oily" is "Shaman" when transliterated, and Christian means "anointed" ["smeared with oil"] in Greek. "Anointed" in Hebrew is "Mashiach"-MESSIAH! Jesus is not the only person called the "anointed" in the Bible (others: Cyrus in Is.45, King David, Saul, Prince of Tyre in Ezk.28, O.T. priests, etc.)


What are some other ways to trance? out-of-body experience?
What exactly does one experience in these states? (research "mysticism")
What are some precautions you should take in seeking these experiences?
For note that Paul says in 2 Cor. 12 that because of his "exceeding abundant revelations" he was "given a thorn in the flesh, a messenger/angel of Satan, to torment me" much like Faust-Mephistopheles & Ivan/"The Devil" in Dostoevsky's Brothers Karamazov Bk.11:9. So please beware!


For more on what the Great Books teach on how to advance spiritually and attain the most fulfilled life, see my Facebook wall posts: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1598178443. Feel free to send me a friend request.
Cool story, bro.
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Old 6th June 2011, 02:53 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Marquis de Carabas View Post
Brevity.
^ This.
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Old 6th June 2011, 02:54 PM   #173
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Quote:
Kant: "Hitherto it has been assumed that all our knowledge must conform to objects. But all attempts to extend our knowledge of objects by establishing something in regard to them a priori, by means of concepts, have, on this assumption, ended in failure. We must therefore make trial whether we may not have more success in the tasks of metaphysics, if we suppose that objects must conform to our knowledge"
One of the reasons I dislike Kant. The dichotomy he presents is obviously false.

Quote:
It's interesting that Kant says humans, limited by sensible intuition, can't know things in themselves, but in the quotation from Plato's Phaedo, he says that by quitting the body we can know "things themselves."
"We're blind because we have eyes, deaf becaus we have ears, and things as they are are things as we do not percieve them because we percieve them!" ~Ayn Rand

Question: Do you look both ways before crossing a street? Or do you close your eyes, go into a trance, and cross without the burden of vision?
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Old 6th June 2011, 03:16 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by gjpogiatzis View Post
it is "rapture" experiences that enable you to experience the whole universe
If I may ask, are you advocating a course of action? I am interested by your ideas but large blocks of text don't really do it for me, especially when they are quotations from other people.

If you are saying there is a course of action that it would be beneficial for me to follow, would you say in your own words exactly what it is that you think I should do and what it should accomplish? Preferably briefly... say in ten lines or less.

Note, I don't really want you to explain why it works, or who has argued for it. I just want to know what it is you think I should do, and what you think I will achieve by it.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 6th June 2011, 03:20 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Marquis de Carabas View Post
Brevity.
This point intrigues me, and I would like you to expound on it at length.
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Old 6th June 2011, 03:40 PM   #176
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Quote:
if you had enough energy, then the elephant would show up, to your chagrin!
What kind of energy?

What frequency is it running at?

Quote:
The problem though is that it's not so easy to believe in things you can't see.
Sure it is. I believe that China exists but I can't see it from here.

Quote:
"Whatsoever things you desire, believe you receive them, and you will have them."-Mark 11:24
So... if I believe hard enough I will have what I desire?

What if I desire something bad... really really bad?


hehe... the rest of you should be afraid... very afraid.
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Old 6th June 2011, 04:16 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Marquis de Carabas View Post
Brevity.

Word.
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Old 6th June 2011, 04:44 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
It is simple. When you are in danger you focus on survival and food. When all your needs are taken care of your brain wanders to the deeper questions and has evolved to make all kinds of connections and understandings in this altered state. It's not that hard to understand. There are many kinds of altered states, they probably all evolved because they help us make better connections that led to better survival. Of course the supernaturalists imagine there is something supernatural about this...
Also, fasting is the same difference. Going without food causes the mind to focus and open up to help the human find food, an evolved trait. That this lends to imaginary experiences is not surprising. The list of casualties, injuries and deaths from people fasting for this stupid reason is very long.

Telling people to fast for spiritual reasons is profoundly stupid and immoral advice.

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Old 6th June 2011, 04:53 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by gjpogiatzis View Post
Surely they can't all be lying about the same thing, can they?
Being delusional or simply mistaken fits their behavior quite nicely without me having to make a judgement about their honesty.
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Old 6th June 2011, 05:16 PM   #180
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I love it when a thread starts with "The Only way..."

It's a sign to warm up some popcorn and watch the show. By the way, I'm impressed how you went out of your source material and into enemy territory to back up your faith. Does your god know what you've done? Because he tends to get a bit pissy at people who do this ya know...
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Old 6th June 2011, 05:20 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by MNBrant View Post
You run the risk of sounding like your practice white magic.

Really? It's white magic when I use my physical energy to wash dishes?
How about turning on a light? Cooking a meal to feed hungry people? These are magical uses of energy?

What about when I praise an employee for their work, and the employee decides to work a little harder? Did I not just use my power as a boss to get a little more effort from my employee, or did I twitch my nose like Samantha?

Geez, dude, get back to reality. White magic? You've got to be kidding?
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Old 6th June 2011, 05:21 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by gjpogiatzis View Post
You say that human virtue is "whatever thing we judge good" & that we would like to see others emulate...

Is human "virtue" not the human "good"? But what makes a thing "good"? Is anything you judge good actually "good"?

What makes something worthy of emulation?
Depends on you, doesn't it? Ref: dictionary, see: "subjective."
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Old 6th June 2011, 05:28 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by slingblade View Post
Human "virtue" is whatever thing we judge good and that we would like to see others emulate.

Because there are things I think are good, that I would rarely want to see anyone emulate. Likewise, there are things that people emulate, that I think not so good.

Subjective concepts are malleable like that. They are the famous epitome of trying to nail Jell-O to a wall.

We need not reconcile the concepts of virtue and power, of good and energy, or any permutation thereof. It should be obvious that the power does not lie in the nouns of "virtue" or "good." The power lies where it always has: in the verbs "to do," and "to be."

There is no power in inaction. To do good or to do bad is to wield or to generate some kind of power, to use or to generate some kind of energy. There is no inherent evil in associating good/virtue with energy/power.
Originally Posted by gjpogiatzis View Post
You say that human virtue is "whatever thing we judge good" & that we would like to see others emulate...

Is human "virtue" not the human "good"? But what makes a thing "good"? Is anything you judge good actually "good"?

What makes something worthy of emulation?

Maybe you'll understand better if I phrase it thusly: stop looking at her finger and instead try to focus on what she's pointing at.
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Old 6th June 2011, 05:53 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by RobDegraves View Post
What kind of energy?

What frequency is it running at?



Sure it is. I believe that China exists but I can't see it from here.



So... if I believe hard enough I will have what I desire?

What if I desire something bad... really really bad?


hehe... the rest of you should be afraid... very afraid.
I just said "IF you had enough ENERGY". Read carefully. Seeing is believing, and when the brain is flooded with energy, it produces altered states of consciousness in which you could drastically alter your "reality"- what you "see", as any drug addict could tell you. The KUNDALINI energy, which is said to bring "enlightenment" and the greatest bliss, is said by Carl Jung to at its worst be equivalent to schizophrenia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini for more on Kundalini, the world's biggest secret.
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Old 6th June 2011, 05:59 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by gjpogiatzis View Post
. . . The KUNDALINI energy, which is said to bring "enlightenment" and the greatest bliss, is said by Carl Jung to at its worst be equivalent to schizophrenia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini for more on Kundalini, the world's biggest secret.
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Old 6th June 2011, 06:00 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Marquis de Carabas View Post
Screwing.

Orgasm.

Condoms. Headgear.
Actually you are right! "The degree and kind of a man's sexuality reaches up to the ultimate pinnacle of his spirit."-Nietzsche. Sex is one of the principal means of generating tremendous amounts of energy, which can lead to trance.
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Old 6th June 2011, 06:02 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by gjpogiatzis View Post
Actually you are right! "The degree and kind of a man's sexuality reaches up to the ultimate pinnacle of his spirit."-Nietzsche. Sex is one of the principal means of generating tremendous amounts of energy, which can lead to trance.

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Old 6th June 2011, 06:03 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by gjpogiatzis View Post
I just said "IF you had enough ENERGY".
Do you have enough ENERGY? Do you have enough WEBCAM? Turn on your prodigious WEBCAM and FOCUS it on your living room. Take your ABUNDANT ENERGY and produce an elephant.

That would be awesome, mmkay? Thanks!
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Old 6th June 2011, 06:04 PM   #189
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Trance


Because someone had to do it? Seriously you can talk about trance's all you want but they only exist is sophistry and nonsense. Reality takes issue with what trances are, and rampant drug use has seemingly better effects than meditation.
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Old 6th June 2011, 06:12 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by gjpogiatzis View Post
Question #7) I suppose there's only one way to find out! Out-of-body experience is supposed to enable you to travel anywhere, even time traveling like in Star Trek.
Where is the experimental evidence for an out of body experience?
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Old 6th June 2011, 06:18 PM   #191
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Philosophy may have its applications, but it's a dry hole when it comes to finding realties. The hard sciences have replaced them. I look to physics to tell enlighten me as to the nature of the universe and biology to tell me about the realities of life. Your ideas are dead. The scientific method killed them.
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Old 6th June 2011, 06:23 PM   #192
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Respectfully, I cannot claim to know a thing unless there is a causal relationship between the meaning of the thing and my correct conceptualization of it. Furthermore, I cannot be confident in such knowledge unless I somehow observe this causal relationship.

I can, however, fool myself into thinking that I know something without this relationship. Unfortunately, this is so easy to do that I constantly try to avoid it, as if I'm tilting on the edge of a cliff.

The notion of trying to ignore the senses, and search for truth within, honestly sounds backwards to me. It appears to amount to cliff diving. My senses are fine. They may not be perfect, but they keep me from tripping over my own feet. Ignoring them simply means I can't tell when I tripped. Where is the risk?

If I look within myself for truth, how can I possibly figure out when I'm wrong? How do I know that when I think I'm drinking the water of truth that I'm not just drinking from the river LetheWP?

Do I just feel like I have truth when I have it right? Or, do I feel like I have truth when I have it wrong?

That, to me, is the big danger. How do I expect to sharpen my intellect without a blade?
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Old 6th June 2011, 06:24 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by gjpogiatzis View Post
I just said "IF you had enough ENERGY". Read carefully. Seeing is believing, and when the brain is flooded with energy, it produces altered states of consciousness in which you could drastically alter your "reality"- what you "see", as any drug addict could tell you. The KUNDALINI energy, which is said to bring "enlightenment" and the greatest bliss, is said by Carl Jung to at its worst be equivalent to schizophrenia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini for more on Kundalini, the world's biggest secret.
No, seeing is not believing. Seeing is the end of belief as at the point of seeing belief is no longer required (I'm paraphrasing Terry Prachet here). I would need to be able to see and measure this energy to know it exists. I'm not going to simply believe in it.
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Old 6th June 2011, 07:02 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by gjpogiatzis View Post
thank you for being so kind! perhaps you should give a call to plato and the others as well, because it's their doctrine I was relating!

Yes, you seem to have a fondness for people who spoke about the fabric of nature hundreds of years before the scientific method was invented. Why would they be any more likely to be right than anybody else who made a wild guess without evidence?
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Old 6th June 2011, 07:29 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
No, seeing is not believing. Seeing is the end of belief as at the point of seeing belief is no longer required (I'm paraphrasing Terry Prachet here). I would need to be able to see and measure this energy to know it exists. I'm not going to simply believe in it.
I agree that seeing something very clearly is "the end of belief", or belief in the highest degree, but what do you make of the fact that in Plato's Republic Book Six, in the second section on the divided line which speaks about the things we see & sense with our other four senses, he characterizes this level of experience as "belief" ("pistis" in Greek, the same word for "faith" in the New Testament!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy...e_divided_line He is implying that the mind creates its reality- the things we see depend on what we believe and how strongly held those beliefs are. There is a deep mystery here. What is reality? The Buddha says at the end of the Diamond Sutra http://www.diamond-sutra.com/diamond...xt/page32.html that all we see is a dream, an illusion, much as Descartes proposes in the beginning of the Meditations.
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Old 6th June 2011, 07:46 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Wow. Stupid brain.

I read "only way to tour de France: out-of-body experience."
I thought the only way to tour de France was clever doping.
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Old 6th June 2011, 07:54 PM   #197
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Maybe the problem with truth is that it is just as often lonely, prickly, and cold as it is snuggly, warm, and beautiful.
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Old 6th June 2011, 08:00 PM   #198
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Why would "knowing things in themselves" be useful?
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Old 6th June 2011, 08:42 PM   #199
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There can be little doubt that many human beings find all sorts of these psychological experiences to be very profound. Whether they be induced by drugs, or mental disciplines, or lack of oxygen...
Even laboratory experiments with the "God Helmet" electromagnetic device and fully-knowledgeable participants... The subjects report that they were profoundly moved by the experience, even though they knew it was artificially induced.
This says much more about human psychology than it does about any notions of the "truth", whatever that might be.
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Old 6th June 2011, 09:04 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
This point intrigues me, and I would like you to expound on it at length.
Elaboration: dismissive brevity.
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