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Old 21st March 2013, 11:03 PM   #1
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Slaves should have been greatful for being provided food and shelter

CPAC racism panel derailed by audience member who suggests slaves should have been grateful for food, shelter & clothing

Okay, it's not at all fair to judge the GOP for this idiot. But why are not the GOP distancing themselves from this racist?

"I love my people"? --idiot at large

Look, I understand the shared problems unique to black people. I get it when they refer to black people as "their" people. That's changing BTW.

But, for the love of god. On average white people do have a privilege that others don't. Count your blessing to be living in a free country where Christmas is still allowed to blare in the malls and churches and community centers can segregate all they like.

I belong to the human race. I don't have a "people" other than friends and family that are white, Hispanic, black Philippine, etc..

Oh, I also belong to the human race, they are my peeps.
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Old 21st March 2013, 11:56 PM   #2
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Idiotic idiot is idiotic.

I personally believe that this is an individual view and in no way represents the GOP mainstream view or even the typical view of a single state's Tea party. As such it should be viewed as a curiosity.

I'd be more worried if this view became more prevalent.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 01:47 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Idiotic idiot is idiotic.

I personally believe that this is an individual view and in no way represents the GOP mainstream view or even the typical view of a single state's Tea party. As such it should be viewed as a curiosity.

I'd be more worried if this view became more prevalent.
You think this is an isolated view?

I've heard many white people from the south express the same view. Normally they had the sense not to do it in a public forum, but it's far from unheard of.

In fact, the man you heard speak was a representative of organizations which share his views in very formal ways, and not a random crank.

http://southernnationalist.com/blog/...icans-at-cpac/

And while I don't think it represents the GOP as a whole or even the tea party, the leadership is going out of it's way NOT to denounce this view in its response to the controversy.

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/18/rnc_..._racism_panel/

Quote:
“For one thing, you have to show up, right?” he replied. “I mean, if you’re going to get the order, you have to ask for the sale. I mean, that’s just sort of basic. Which is why we’re launching this unprecedented effort to bring in — I’m not talking about hiring two or three people down the hallway at the RNC. What we’re talking about is hiring hundreds of paid people across the country this year to make the case in minority communities across America.”

“We’re gong to be doing voter engagement at a granular, community level, starting now,”
The RNC chair, instead of saying, as you did, that this guy is an idiot, responded with a deliberate refusal to say exactly that.

The GOP knows that a part of it's constituency believes that, and their desire to keep those voters prevents a deserved denunciation of this idiocy.

Look also at what happened at the rest of that very panel and how the speaker characterized it.

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/16/tea_..._racism_panel/

This is NOT isolated. look who was at CPAC last year as invited speakers:
http://www.thenation.com/blog/166176...ionalism-cpac#
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Old 22nd March 2013, 02:05 AM   #4
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Slaves should have been greatful for being provided food and shelter

The wonder and joy of socialism
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Old 22nd March 2013, 02:09 AM   #5
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This is the the old "they had it way better here than in Africa" argument again.

Another form is the "they were already slaves in Africa, but just by other tribes, and they were under worse conditions to boot".

They are just excuses that racists make up to try and sleep better at night.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 02:29 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
You think this is an isolated view?

<snip>
I did. I am no longer under that illusion. Thank you.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 05:40 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths View Post
This is the the old "they had it way better here than in Africa" argument again.

Another form is the "they were already slaves in Africa, but just by other tribes, and they were under worse conditions to boot".

They are just excuses that racists make up to try and sleep better at night.
We were giving them the benefits of civilization and the chance of saving their souls thru Christianity and if they didn't appreciate that we gave them the lash.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 05:44 AM   #8
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All the slaves really wanted was comfortable shoes and a warm place to go to the bathroom.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 06:06 AM   #9
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Isolated view? Hardly - although it is not representative of a Republican view. Indeed, it is common enough among white trash from both sides of the isle. The difference? The Democrats are decent enough to make it known that they do not care for racists and would rather lose a racists vote than pander to racists. The Republican party does not make this clear. In fact, the Republican party is simultaniously attempting to increase their standing with minorities while attempting to not alienate the racist vote. Tough task, that.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 07:25 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
We were giving them the benefits of civilization and the chance of saving their souls thru Christianity and if they didn't appreciate that we gave them the lash.
Some of those ungrateful slaves didn't even appreciate the Christianity!

"I assert most unhesitatingly, that the religion of the South — as I have observed it and proved it — is a mere covering for the most horrid crimes; a justifier of the most appalling barbarity; a sanctifier of the most hateful frauds; and a dark shelter, under which the darkest, foulest, grossest, and most infernal abominations fester and flourish. Were I again to be reduced to the condition of A slave, next to that calamity, I should regard the fact of being the slave of a religious slaveholder, the greatest that could befall me."

F. Douglass.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 07:37 AM   #11
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The thing that is wrong with slavery isn’t the conditions that the slave a kept in, it’s that you has taken someone’s liberty away. Would slavery be ok if you treated them nice?
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Old 22nd March 2013, 08:26 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
All the slaves really wanted was comfortable shoes and a warm place to go to the bathroom.
Earl! long time no hear.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 08:29 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by sarge View Post
Isolated view? Hardly - although it is not representative of a Republican view. Indeed, it is common enough among white trash from both sides of the isle. The difference? The Democrats are decent enough to make it known that they do not care for racists and would rather lose a racists vote than pander to racists. The Republican party does not make this clear. In fact, the Republican party is simultaniously attempting to increase their standing with minorities while attempting to not alienate the racist vote. Tough task, that.
They want to have a big tent, a white hood and a burning cross too.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 08:36 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
CPAC racism panel derailed by audience member who suggests slaves should have been grateful for food, shelter & clothing

Okay, it's not at all fair to judge the GOP for this idiot. But why are not the GOP distancing themselves from this racist?

"I love my people"? --idiot at large

Look, I understand the shared problems unique to black people. I get it when they refer to black people as "their" people. That's changing BTW.

But, for the love of god. On average white people do have a privilege that others don't. Count your blessing to be living in a free country where Christmas is still allowed to blare in the malls and churches and community centers can segregate all they like.

I belong to the human race. I don't have a "people" other than friends and family that are white, Hispanic, black Philippine, etc..

Oh, I also belong to the human race, they are my peeps.
So I watched this video twice now, the first time I had a lot going on around me (getting the kids out the door and delivered to school) and then when I got home I just now watched it again. I thought maybe the guy's sorry attempt at ironic humor was being misrepresented, but on the second viewing it appears that he was absolutely serious.

I'll say this; Having been born and raised in the South, there has always been a certain defensiveness about the Civil War among Southerners. Ask a Southerner what the war about and you almost always get "States' rights" and allusions to very complex "economic issues". While technically true, we all know that this is only half of the story (the other half being the rather embarrassing fact that the "right" to convert human beings into "economic issues" was the true root). This defensiveness breeds the most bizarre justifications which require mental gymnastics and convoluted logic to rationalize. It never ceases to surprise me what outrageous conclusions this produces.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 12:00 PM   #15
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I've run across this line of thinking more than a few times. Oddly enough, they tend to get outraged when I ask if they would be greatful if a multimillionaire kidnapped their children, did with said children as they saw fit, but on the bright side gave the kids a better education than they could ever afford...
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Old 22nd March 2013, 12:01 PM   #16
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huh?

It is like saying rape victims should be just as grateful (by the way, that is how I think it is spelled).
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Old 22nd March 2013, 12:12 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by sarge View Post
IIn fact, the Republican party is simultaniously attempting to increase their standing with minorities while attempting to not alienate the racist vote.
This is my problem with it. I don't know how extensive this view is within the republican party (to this degree, at least), but why is there any tolerance for it at all? If the racist vote is so important that you are afraid to lose it, then you have got a problem. And if cracking down on an extremist like this is going to cause you a problem, then what does that say about the supporters of your party?
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Old 22nd March 2013, 12:26 PM   #18
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This reminds me of how everyone hated and blamed Osama Bin Laden for the lives lost in 911 when he really was just getting the relatives of the victims sizable settlements and lifetime perks.

And yet what what do people do? They villainized him and hunted him down and made a movie about it costarring the lovely Jennifer Ehle who I find very pretty.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 12:35 PM   #19
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Reminds me of a Randy Newman song:

"In America, they got food to eat. Don't have to run thru the jungle and scuff up ya feet..."
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Old 22nd March 2013, 02:17 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Dymanic View Post
Reminds me of a Randy Newman song:

"In America, they got food to eat. Don't have to run thru the jungle and scuff up ya feet..."
Randy Newman, for the irony deficient, the political version of a POE.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 04:22 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
They want to have a big tent, a white hood and a burning cross too.
I don't believe that any portion of the Republican Party leadership actually embraces racism or racists. It's not that the GOP actively recruits racists, it's that they do not actively discourage racists.

Ironically, the GOP would probably gain net voters were they to actively disavow racists.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 05:41 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by sarge View Post
I don't believe that any portion of the Republican Party leadership actually embraces racism or racists. It's not that the GOP actively recruits racists, it's that they do not actively discourage racists.

Ironically, the GOP would probably gain net voters were they to actively disavow racists.
I think you are right. I think there was a time when it would not have been a good thing to disavow racists simple because of the dynamics. But things have swung so far I think they would pick more voters.

Before this last election I saw interviews with lots of women and minorities who otherwise have priorities above the issues specific to them being women or minorities.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 06:23 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by sarge View Post
Isolated view? Hardly - although it is not representative of a Republican view. Indeed, it is common enough among white trash from both sides of the isle. The difference? The Democrats are decent enough to make it known that they do not care for racists and would rather lose a racists vote than pander to racists. The Republican party does not make this clear. In fact, the Republican party is simultaniously attempting to increase their standing with minorities while attempting to not alienate the racist vote. Tough task, that.
Case in point, the presenter was interviewed after this and said that he and the racist left as friend. No, the racist didn't change his views, but rather the person who spoke at this conference on how the GOP can attract more minorities openly accepted the person who thought that he should be allowed to own him.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 06:27 PM   #24
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Not new:

Oct 2012:
http://digitaljournal.com/article/334383

3 years ago:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...7183149AABa05P

2009:
http://newsone.com/290847/opinion-sh...l-for-slavery/

And this from 2008, from one of our all-time favorites:
Quote:
First, America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.
Pat Freaking Buchanon
http://buchanan.org/blog/pjb-a-brief-for-whitey-969
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Old 22nd March 2013, 06:38 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Irony View Post
Case in point, the presenter was interviewed after this and said that he and the racist left as friend. No, the racist didn't change his views, but rather the person who spoke at this conference on how the GOP can attract more minorities openly accepted the person who thought that he should be allowed to own him.
Hang on, with ownership comes responsibility, the white guy would have to provide him with food and shelter. For which the black guy could be grateful.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 06:41 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post

Okay, it's not at all fair to judge the GOP for this idiot. But .......
You are going to do it anyway for cheap points to reinforce your view.



Natch.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 07:48 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
You are going to do it anyway for cheap points to reinforce your view.



Natch.
I'm at a loss. Natch?
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Old 23rd March 2013, 01:08 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by joesixpack View Post
Some of those ungrateful slaves didn't even appreciate the Christianity!

"I assert most unhesitatingly, that the religion of the South — as I have observed it and proved it — is a mere covering for the most horrid crimes; a justifier of the most appalling barbarity; a sanctifier of the most hateful frauds; and a dark shelter, under which the darkest, foulest, grossest, and most infernal abominations fester and flourish. Were I again to be reduced to the condition of A slave, next to that calamity, I should regard the fact of being the slave of a religious slaveholder, the greatest that could befall me."

F. Douglass.

Left out the word "calamity" at the end there... Also a few other words seem off. Did you type that from memory?

ETA: Nevermind, yours seems to appear in My Bondage and My Freedom 1855 and the one I am familiar with is in Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, An American Slave 1845.

Still a great quote either way.

Quote:
I assert most unhesitatingly, that the religion of the south is a mere covering for the most horrid crimes,--a justifier of the most appalling barbarity,--a sanctifier of the most hateful frauds,--and a dark shelter under, which the darkest, foulest, grossest, and most infernal deeds of slaveholders find the strongest protection. Were I to be again reduced to the chains of slavery, next to that enslavement, I should regard being the slave of a religious master the greatest calamity that could befall me.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 02:20 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by joesixpack View Post
So I watched this video twice now, the first time I had a lot going on around me (getting the kids out the door and delivered to school) and then when I got home I just now watched it again. I thought maybe the guy's sorry attempt at ironic humor was being misrepresented, but on the second viewing it appears that he was absolutely serious.

I'll say this; Having been born and raised in the South, there has always been a certain defensiveness about the Civil War among Southerners. Ask a Southerner what the war about and you almost always get "States' rights" and allusions to very complex "economic issues". While technically true, we all know that this is only half of the story (the other half being the rather embarrassing fact that the "right" to convert human beings into "economic issues" was the true root). This defensiveness breeds the most bizarre justifications which require mental gymnastics and convoluted logic to rationalize. It never ceases to surprise me what outrageous conclusions this produces.
As a person who makes a living in the field of history, and one who is a devoted Civil War buff, it never ceases to amaze me, as I engage southerners just how many of them are still fighting the Civil War. I've chatted it up with quite a few The South Was Right / Lost Causers, and man, I see it again and again - Faulkner's 14 year old boys come blazing through, carrying the colors.

150 years later...that's some real sore losership.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 02:21 AM   #30
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For those unfamiliar with the Faulkner reference:


“For every Southern boy fourteen years old, not once but whenever he wants it,
there is the instant when it’s still not yet two o’clock on that July afternoon in 1863,

the brigades are in position behind the rail fence, the guns are laid and ready in the woods and the furled flags are already loosened to break out and Pickett himself with his long oiled ringlets and his hat in one hand probably and his sword in the other looking up the hill waiting for Longstreet to give the word and it’s all in the balance, it hasn’t happened yet, it hasn’t even begun yet, it not only hasn’t begun yet but there is still time for it not to begin against that position and those circumstances which made more men than Garnett and Kemper and Armistead and Wilcox look grave yet it’s going to begin, we all know that, we have come too far with too much at stake

and that moment doesn’t need even a fourteen-year-old boy to think

This time. Maybe this time with all this much to lose than all this much to gain: Pennsylvania, Maryland, the world, the golden dome of Washington itself to crown with desperate and unbelievable victory the desperate gamble, the cast made two years ago. -William Faulkner, Intruder in the Dust
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Old 23rd March 2013, 04:13 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Rare Truth View Post
As a person who makes a living in the field of history, and one who is a devoted Civil War buff, it never ceases to amaze me, as I engage southerners just how many of them are still fighting the Civil War. I've chatted it up with quite a few The South Was Right / Lost Causers, and man, I see it again and again - Faulkner's 14 year old boys come blazing through, carrying the colors.

150 years later...that's some real sore losership.
It is a queer thing indeed. There must be a tangled plexus of psychological factors that create such a confusion or thoughts. I know for me, as a kid, part of it was a wish to rewrite history so that my forefathers wouldn't be on the wrong side of it. And certainly part of it is the glorification of the antebellum South and romanticizing of the plantation culture. I suppose most southerners aren't aware of the abject poverty most southern whites lived in before the war.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 05:34 AM   #32
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I saw a semi yesterday with a conf flag on the front, and it got me thinking about the "South will rise agsin" sentiment. I wondered, what does that even mean? The south will secceed again? Slavery will return? Or what?
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Old 23rd March 2013, 06:12 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I saw a semi yesterday with a conf flag on the front, and it got me thinking about the "South will rise agsin" sentiment. I wondered, what does that even mean? The south will secceed again? Slavery will return? Or what?
I've gotten into discussions with people about the Confederate flag and it's really bizarre what people think it means. I see it as the flag of a slave-holding oligarchy, my redneck friends seem to think it means "rebel", as in "non-conformity", or "anti-authoritarian". Mind you, I live in WA, so these aren't southerners I'm talking about. When I suggest that some might consider it a racist icon, they express shocked dismay that anyone could misunderstand it so.

In the South, people seem more inclined to view it as the symbol of a proud heritage, but without actually acknowledging (or even understanding) what that heritage might be. Most people who fly the flag seem quite confused as to its meaning, even to themselves. Most people, that is. Some overt racists take it for what it is, I suppose.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 06:33 AM   #34
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There were no bad slaverholders, that's all Northern propaganda. More than once I've heard Southerners say, "My great-great-grandpa owned a plantation. But he did not abuse his slaves. In fact, after the civil war, nothing changed after the slaves were freed. Every single one stayed on."

Never hear any of them Southerners, "Yeah he owned slaves and he was a mean SOB, whipped them all the time, broke up families and had sex with the good looking ones."
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Old 23rd March 2013, 06:48 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
There were no bad slaverholders, that's all Northern propaganda. More than once I've heard Southerners say, "My great-great-grandpa owned a plantation.
Actually, the funny thing about this is that a greater percentage American blacks than Southern whites can make this claim
Quote:
But he did not abuse his slaves. In fact, after the civil war, nothing changed after the slaves were freed. Every single one stayed on."
Yes, the Southern economy went from slave based to feudal after the war. Reconstruction advanced the South all the way up to the 11th century. YeeeHAW!
Quote:

Never hear any of them Southerners, "Yeah he owned slaves and he was a mean SOB, whipped them all the time, broke up families and had sex with the good looking ones."
Yeah, the mean slave owner had no children.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 08:18 AM   #36
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by joesixpack View Post
In the South, people seem more inclined to view it as the symbol of a proud heritage, but without actually acknowledging (or even understanding) what that heritage might be.
I think this is very much the source of my confusion. What "proud heritage" does the confederate flag represent? Are they proud that their ancestors seceded? Or of the pre-civil war lifestyle?
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Old 23rd March 2013, 12:11 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I think this is very much the source of my confusion. What "proud heritage" does the confederate flag represent? Are they proud that their ancestors seceded? Or of the pre-civil war lifestyle?
They long for the time they had someone to lord it over. No matter how bad the poor white had it he could always say "At least I ain't a -------, I got rights".

He never seemed to notice that he always exercised his rights in favor of the rich slaveholders.

The mind creates fetters that are stronger than iron.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 01:33 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Rare Truth View Post
For those unfamiliar with the Faulkner reference:


“For every Southern boy fourteen years old, not once but whenever he wants it,
there is the instant when it’s still not yet two o’clock on that July afternoon in 1863,

the brigades are in position behind the rail fence, the guns are laid and ready in the woods and the furled flags are already loosened to break out and Pickett himself with his long oiled ringlets and his hat in one hand probably and his sword in the other looking up the hill waiting for Longstreet to give the word and it’s all in the balance, it hasn’t happened yet, it hasn’t even begun yet, it not only hasn’t begun yet but there is still time for it not to begin against that position and those circumstances which made more men than Garnett and Kemper and Armistead and Wilcox look grave yet it’s going to begin, we all know that, we have come too far with too much at stake

and that moment doesn’t need even a fourteen-year-old boy to think

This time. Maybe this time with all this much to lose than all this much to gain: Pennsylvania, Maryland, the world, the golden dome of Washington itself to crown with desperate and unbelievable victory the desperate gamble, the cast made two years ago. -William Faulkner, Intruder in the Dust
They shoulda went to the right.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 08:15 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by joesixpack View Post
I've gotten into discussions with people about the Confederate flag and it's really bizarre what people think it means. I see it as the flag of a slave-holding oligarchy, my redneck friends seem to think it means "rebel", as in "non-conformity", or "anti-authoritarian". Mind you, I live in WA, so these aren't southerners I'm talking about.
You get people like that in Canada, too. I used to live in a town where about ten percent of the trucks had some confederate flag on them, and the hockey team was known as the Rebels.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 10:48 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I think this is very much the source of my confusion. What "proud heritage" does the confederate flag represent?
The flag is a master-signifier that signifies only to white southerners. It is the symbol of what they individually recognize as good, and the belief that it is good. It has meaning because, and to the extent that, they have the power to declare that it does.

It is nothing.
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