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15th May 2012, 04:20 PM | #121 |
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15th May 2012, 04:20 PM | #122 |
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It'd also horribly inefficient. If you want your quota and preserve pelts, you have to shoot.
Quote:
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15th May 2012, 04:21 PM | #123 |
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a matter of consistency
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15th May 2012, 04:27 PM | #124 |
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15th May 2012, 04:32 PM | #125 |
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The guise of "research" has a lot to do with it, yes. If the Japanese could somehow convince me that their whaling is in any way akin to what the Inuit do, I may even change my mind.
But seeing as though they enjoy slaughtering (See Taiji) I'm not gonna hold my breath. They are contemptable. |
15th May 2012, 04:34 PM | #126 |
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15th May 2012, 04:36 PM | #127 |
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15th May 2012, 04:41 PM | #128 |
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15th May 2012, 04:53 PM | #129 |
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Only by pure luck. So far, everyone has "made their saving throws" to use a D&D term. It's only a matter of time before someone rolls snake-eyes and is in the wrong place at the wrong time, and ends up getting killed.
Whether its one of their own crew, or someone else's...eventually their luck will run out. Here's a partial list of some of the potentially fatal activities the crew of Sea Shepherd has engaged in: - The intentional ramming of other vessels. - Attempting to start fires on other vessels using flares. - Charging through an ice field in a ship that's not rated for ice. - Launching their zodiac small boats while traveling at top speed. - Recovering their zodiac small boats while traveling at top speed. - Charging headlong into a dangerous storm rather than go around it, just to save time. - Leaving the crew of their zodiac small boats 50 miles from their ship, so they almost die of hypothermia. If they continue to take such risks...eventually it will come back to bite them in the ass, and they will kill one of their own or someone on another boat. |
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15th May 2012, 04:59 PM | #130 |
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15th May 2012, 05:03 PM | #131 |
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15th May 2012, 05:04 PM | #132 |
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I'm confused too...maybe you can explain your position. What makes whales so special? I'm not talking about the one's that are on the endangered species list. I'm talking about species like the Menke whales the Japaneses are hunting...they aren't endangered. Why is it wrong to kill a whale vs. a tuna? or a crab...or a lobster...or a trout...or a salmon?
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15th May 2012, 05:07 PM | #133 |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience
It'd be great in a few years when we can finally communicate with them and the first thing they say is "you murdered my family" I guess for me, the only reason is that its unnecessary. Its primitive thinking too, kill because we can. not because we need to, I hate primitive thinking, it goes hand in hand with bigotry and organised religion imho that and Star Trek 4 not really relevant, but a factor to me is that I like dragons, whales originated that mythology, so I'd hate to see the creatures responsible hunted |
15th May 2012, 05:18 PM | #134 |
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So...basically it's an emotional response. You like whales, and don't want to see them killed, but you could care less about lesser sea creatures. How is killing a whale for it's meat and blubber any different than killing a cow for its meat and leather?
Please explain why killing this guy is wrong: but it's perfectly ok to kill this guy: Or these guys: |
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15th May 2012, 05:24 PM | #135 |
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15th May 2012, 05:24 PM | #136 |
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Yeah, hey - that video where the big Sea Shepherd ship is repeatedly ramming that offshore fishing rig? Not quite the Antarctic. That thing he just got arrested for? The place where that incident happened? Not quite the Antarctic. That incident that got him expelled from Iceland? Not quite the Antarctic. And et cetera.
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15th May 2012, 05:32 PM | #137 |
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I don't have a concrete opinion on the subject. However, whales have measurable cognitive abilities that cows do not. While it is still somewhat controversial there is strong evidence to favor the proposition that they demonstrate self awareness. They have brain structures that are relatively larger than all other great apes save be it for humans and the brain structures have a complexity second only to humans.
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15th May 2012, 05:33 PM | #138 |
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In my view this is an attempt at foisting the burden of proof on to the other side. It should be your job to demonstrate why it's ethical to kill a whale when there is no economic or scientific need to do so, and while whale populations are far below their pre-whaling level (there's some clever sophistry involved in focusing discussion whether the population is "sustainable", meaning it's not quite on the threshold of extinction, and acting as if this is the optimal level).
Maybe if you thought about it for a while you might be able to figure some differences between harpooning large, intelligent, social mammals with a long lifespan and a dangerously low population in the wild and killing relatively unintelligent crustaceans, say, or humanely killing domesticated mammals from a vast population that would not exist except for human agriculture in a specially designed slaughterhouse. Maybe. I'll let you mull over the two situations for a while and see if you can figure out just one or two ways in which it just might be different. If they'e going to kill whales (and there's no justification for it, morally, scientifically or economically) they should be killing minkes. They're a relatively dumb, solitary predator. Killing the large, social whales in the wild just for the benefit of the Japanese whaling industry is utterly indefensible. |
15th May 2012, 05:35 PM | #139 |
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15th May 2012, 05:35 PM | #140 |
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How do you know they are sentient? How was this determined? Do whales exhibit problem solving skills like great apes?
How is it wasteful?...ever part of the whale is used...the meat is eaten...the blubber is used for fuel, the guts are used for animal feed, no part goes to waste. How are we indebted to whales? Other than being majestic...what have they done for us? Aside from providing food and fuel for generations of people? |
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15th May 2012, 05:39 PM | #141 |
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15th May 2012, 05:41 PM | #142 |
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15th May 2012, 05:41 PM | #143 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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15th May 2012, 05:48 PM | #144 |
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Ego, ain't it a bitch? |
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15th May 2012, 05:51 PM | #145 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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15th May 2012, 05:54 PM | #146 |
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15th May 2012, 05:55 PM | #147 |
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15th May 2012, 05:57 PM | #148 |
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Dogs don't pass the mirror test and the complexity and relative brain size are small. However, there is at least one scientist who believes that there is empirical evidence using dog urine (dogs rely on smell more than sight).
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15th May 2012, 05:59 PM | #149 |
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15th May 2012, 05:59 PM | #150 |
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15th May 2012, 06:00 PM | #151 |
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15th May 2012, 06:02 PM | #152 |
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15th May 2012, 06:09 PM | #153 |
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15th May 2012, 06:09 PM | #154 |
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The problem, and this is true for whales also, is that we don't quite know what that means as it relates to self awareness. It's just too easy to generalize from our own experiences. If you have seen the Terry Schivo pictures or videos you know that humans can appear to be aware and express some emotion when the medical and scientific community says that it is just not the case that they are truly aware or feeling complex emotions. The visual cues can be very misleading.
The difference with whales, I would argue, is in that there is greater potential given the relative brain size and perhaps even more important, degree of complexity. |
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15th May 2012, 06:19 PM | #155 |
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15th May 2012, 06:26 PM | #156 |
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Tuna overfishing is a serious problem. In addition, longline fishing has been known to also get fish eating birds, including the Wandering Albatross. Longline fishing is estimated to kill 100,000 Albatross of all species every year. There's also the small matter of the Southern Bluefin Tuna being critically endangered
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_bluefin_tuna http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longline_fishing |
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i loves the little birdies they goes tweet tweet tweet hee hee i loves them they sings to each other tweet twet tweet hee hee i loves them they is so cute i love yje little birdies little birdies in the room when birfies sings ther is no gloom i lobes the little birdies they goess tweet tweet tweet hee hee hee i loves them they sings me to sleep sing me to slrrp now little birdies - The wisdom of Shemp. |
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15th May 2012, 06:26 PM | #158 |
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I don't believe hunting whales is really necessary and I do consider myself averse to the practice in general.
However, I'm also averse to self-righteous blowhards raising money to buy themselves multi-ton ships so they can go out and deliberately play bumper-boats on the high seas in the name of "helping the whales". What if during one of his attacks Captain Dickbeard had knocked a hole in the aft hull of one of those whalers or damaged his own ship in a way that resulted in a couple thousand gallons of diesel being spilled all over the Antarctic Ocean? Our hero, ladies and gents! "Sea Shepherd" indeed. |
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15th May 2012, 06:29 PM | #159 |
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i loves the little birdies they goes tweet tweet tweet hee hee i loves them they sings to each other tweet twet tweet hee hee i loves them they is so cute i love yje little birdies little birdies in the room when birfies sings ther is no gloom i lobes the little birdies they goess tweet tweet tweet hee hee hee i loves them they sings me to sleep sing me to slrrp now little birdies - The wisdom of Shemp. |
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