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27th November 2012, 02:13 PM | #641 |
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Today we see even more fallout from the Maps affair: Apple Fires Maps Manager
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Apple Said to Fire Maps Manager After Flaws Hurt IPhone 5
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Odd how some Apple fans in this thread claim that the whole maps issue was overblown, and yet Apple has forced out the head of Apple software and the head of the Maps project. And the reason for both was specifically related to the maps issue. |
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27th November 2012, 02:47 PM | #642 |
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27th November 2012, 07:29 PM | #643 |
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You're funny. You used the same "air" (interesting way to spell "article") that I did to pull things out of ... the one you linked to. Operative term being "simply". Your "conclusion" is just as much a conjecture as mine. The only difference is your apparent need to paint Google as a bad guy. If you really have evidence that Google refused to let Apple use that feature for no other reason than to maintain a market advantage, and not because Apple was unwilling to meet the price they wanted for their product then go ahead and share it. Otherwise your "conclusion" is just as full of air. |
28th November 2012, 07:21 AM | #644 |
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28th November 2012, 10:53 AM | #645 |
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Your 'conjecture' is without basis. There is nothing in the article that suggests apple wanted voice turn-by-turn without having to pay for it.
That statement doesn't say or imply that apple actually asked for google to "simply hand it over". In fact, the article clearly states there were negotiations:
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I never claimed it was the only reason. But I think the article clearly states that competitive advantage for android was a big reason, if not the main reason google wasn't going to let apple have access to voice-turn-by-turn data for a reasonable price. And it's not just my conclusion. For example: http://techpinions.com/the-real-reas...gle-maps/10725 http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/26/app...rn-navigation/ If you disagree, that's fine. I just haven't seen you provide any reasons or evidence to believe your conclusion that the problem was apple simply wanted it for free. I asked earlier, but you ignored the question: The fact that Apple couldn't come to a mutually satisfactory agreement with Google says nothing about whether either side actually made a reasonable attempt to negotiate a fair deal. And I can't see how it would have been to Googles advantage to offer a 'fair deal'. Do you ? |
28th November 2012, 12:01 PM | #646 |
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Who made those claims ? How does firing someone prove that the whole maps issue wasn't overblown ?
And the Forstall firing had to do with internal issues other than maps, in case you really thought that Apple maps was the cause of him being fired. http://daringfireball.net/linked/201...wski-mansfield http://www.slate.com/articles/techno..._all_star.html http://www.businessinsider.com/why-s...is-out-2012-10 etc.... |
28th November 2012, 02:23 PM | #647 |
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First of all there aren't "claims" plural. There is one claim in the post you quote. And here it is:
Now for your question: "Who made that claim?" That is, that the whole maps issue was overblown. Several people in the thread said it was overblown. Including you: "Tempest in a teapot" is a direct synonym for "overblown", IOW making a mountain out of a molehill. Your quote literally reads: "I suspect that ultimately the maps issue is overblown, and will not dissuade any discernible number of people from buying an iPhone 5." You just plain don't have any wiggle room there. But I know for a fact that won't stop you from trying.... Ironically you even do it in your very next sentence after asking "Who made that claim"!!: There is no "I'm Just Asking Questions" here at the JREF. We're not going to believe that you are "just curious". That's odd because your own links say it was the straw that broke the camels back. As did the other articles I linked to at the time. Did you even read the articles that I linked to when the story broke? You literally have nothing new here. He refused to sign the apology letter and was immediately let go. You can't get much more direct than that. No one ever claimed that it wasn't the straw that broke the camels back. What better person to use as a matter to make it look like they are top of the Maps catastrophe? |
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28th November 2012, 03:00 PM | #648 |
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The word literally ... I don't think it means what you think it means. My quote LITERALLY reads:
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But back to what you think I said... What do I need wiggle room for ? Yes, in regards to affecting sales, as I said, the whole maps fiasco was overblown. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...e-5-debut.html While flaws in Apple’s map program haven’t dented sales of the iPhone 5, which was introduced in September, the shortcomings were an unusual public misfire that forced Chief Executive Officer Tim Cook to apologize to customers. Don't you read the articles you post ? It was overblown. It didn't hurt sales. It was embarrassing for Apple and they took measures to correct it. That doesn't somehow mean the whole issue wasn't overblown, because it clearly was. Yes, I read the articles you linked to. I am referring to the statements you made, not the articles. This is what you wrote:
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But if you want to believe it was maps, that's fine. |
28th November 2012, 03:23 PM | #649 |
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That is flat out not true, I would have to change the English language for you to have not said the maps issue was overblown. Absolutely no one is going to buy into to your claim that me changing "tempest in a teapot" for "overblown" is being dishonest. Pretty hilarious that the only other thing you can think of is to say you just meant it was "just overblown in relation to it affecting sales". What else would it be in relation to!! Seriously, tell us what else the maps issue being overblown would have to do with besides the sales of the phone? I can't wait to hear this one. If the maps issue is not overblown, if it is a real thing, then it would effect sales. You claiming that it is not going to affect sales inherently implies that the maps issue is overblown. What else would it be in relation to! That is quite clearly not true. All the links, even back when the story broke said him not signing the apology letter was the straw that broke the camels back. It was the final cause for the effect. You can't get more directly related than that. Him not signing the apology letter, which was 100 percent about the maps issue, is a fact. You just can't dance your way around that. He was the fall guy for the maps issue. Just because they hated him for other reasons before the maps issue doesn't suddenly change that! I know we have to do this with you seemingly every time you make a post, but can you just make the claim? Are you claiming that he was not used as a fall guy over the maps issue? Stop dancing around and just say it: "He was not used as a fall guy over the maps issue." Then we can go on from there. All you have done is point out what the articles said at the time, that him not signing the apology letter was the straw that broke the camels back, and then they made him the fall guy. No one is denying that. |
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28th November 2012, 03:33 PM | #650 |
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I mean c'mon. This is a direct line of quotes. No sneaky anything was done.
What do you think the odds are of you convincing anyone that "the maps issue being overblown and won't affect sales" is different from "the maps issue being overblown in relation to [anything else]." You're claiming that you think the maps issue was not overblown, but it won't affect sales? If you don't think it will affect sales, then how was it not "overblown"? It just doesn't make any sense. Are you literally trying to claim that you meant: "Yes it is a real tempest, not a tempest in a teapot. But as far as affecting sales goes, it is a tempest in a teapot." Seriously? |
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28th November 2012, 04:02 PM | #651 |
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Here is another exchange. I left it in full so as not to be accused of doing anything sneaky:
In megaresp's highlighted sentence we can clearly see that "something awesome" is referring to Google Maps, and "something broken" is referring to Apple Maps. No one is going to question that. We don't even need megaresp to back that up. TheL8Elvis then clearly says: "Broken may be an overstatement." What did megaresp say was "something broken"? Apple Maps. TheL8Elvis's sentence therefore quite clearly reads: "[Saying Apple Maps is] broken may be an overstatement." IOW, saying Apple Maps being broken may be an exaggeration. IOW, overblown. The fact that then you then go on to say that it being broken is an overstatement because we can always just go use Google Maps in the browser just adds to the hilariousness of the damage control. Using the "other guy" is still directly related, in fact it is part and parcel with, the entire "Apple Maps issue". IOW, you are saying that mega calling the thing that Apple replaced Google Maps with broken is overstating because we can always use Google Maps in browser form. Which is directly calling the Apple Maps issue overblown. So far we have you saying that it is overblown in relation to not only it's use, but it's sales. We have "tempest in a teapot" and "overstatement". You then did the old synonym dance. You are not the first person at the JREF to try and get out from under a claim by doing the old synonym dance. Not by a long shot. Need we go on? Also remember, my claim was that posters in this thread claimed the maps issue was overblown. I haven't even started with any other posters' quotes besides yours. |
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29th November 2012, 03:37 AM | #652 |
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I think I see the pattern here.
Every time an article comes out that is not favorable to apple: or: We start arguing about the minutia, even if it doesn't make any sense, even if it is about the previous news, like the previous firing, and not even about the current news. With hope that the argument veers away from the facts of the news article as much as possible. So then after keeping up that charade for several posts we hope that no one sees the news. It's more about creating a blinding distraction, or a fog of argument, than it is about damage control these days. Apple had a fiasco with the maps. Heads rolled. Samsung is the new king of smartphones; currently and for the foreseeable future. |
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29th November 2012, 04:27 AM | #653 |
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That doesn't mean much, per se. Shirley Sherrod and Anthony Wiener both "resigned" after scandals, but I would still consider those scandals overblown.
I haven't had a problem with Apple Maps, but I've only used it around New Orleans and here in Lansing, and the Siri integration has worked well for me, but I've heard enough online to accept that it has problems. Some of the complaints are empty though, like the "melting bridges," Google Earth has similar problems - probably any map that combines 3d terrain data with 2d images will. But Apple's phone needed a turn-by-turn gps navigation, google wouldn't allow theirs to be used, so Apple had to make one. Google maps has had a long time to mature, and it shows (and still isn't perfect - probably no map ever will be, there's too much data and it changes too often). Samsung probably will dominate the smartphone market in terms of units sold, but I don't think that means much to Apple, they were always a niche market, with 5% or so OS marketshare. Their sudden burst of popularity followed by the slow return to normalcy we're seeing now will be interesting for media and analysts, but I don't think will have much impact on their internal culture. |
29th November 2012, 10:09 AM | #654 |
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That's not what I said. Read for comprehension, please. You changed my words and said you were literally quoting me. That's dishonest. If you said you were paraphrasing or anything else, it wouldn't be an issue.
Since maps has not affected sales, how has it been anything other than overblown ? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...e-5-debut.html While flaws in Apple’s map program haven’t dented sales of the iPhone 5, I don't know. You are the one who said
Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths
He was not used as a fall guy over the maps issue, and you seriously have very little understanding of Apple. |
29th November 2012, 10:11 AM | #655 |
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Sure, go on, since I don't even know what you are going on about. Yes, the whole maps issue was overblown, it didn't affect sales. Sure, the whole maps issue was overblown because there are workarounds. Sure, the whole maps issue was overblown because Apple will improve maps over time.
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29th November 2012, 10:13 AM | #656 |
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29th November 2012, 10:29 AM | #657 |
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I didn't look too hard among the last couple of pages of posts because the silly bickering is dizzying so don't know if this was posted but looks like Apple retook the U.S. smartphone lead thanks to strong iPhone 5 sales.
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/27/...ne-5-strength/ |
29th November 2012, 12:25 PM | #658 |
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We knew they were going to have a huge 12 weeks in the US 12 weeks ago.
This is from post #3 in this very thread: Sadly that bump will probably be short lived, and they didn't get anywhere close to the worldwide leader. They also had hopes of breaking into Europe, which didn't seem to materialize. It appears I was also correct about the first part of that post as well: From the current source: http://www.kantarworldpanel.com/Glob...o-second-place
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29th November 2012, 02:12 PM | #659 |
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You should apply for the million dollar challenge for correctly 'knowing' that iPhone 5 sales would be huge.
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7th December 2012, 09:30 AM | #660 |
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T-Mobile CEO confirms the iPhone and the death of phone subs
http://gigaom.com/mobile/t-mobile-ce...one-subsidies/
T-Mobile USA CEO John Legere confirmed that the iPhone will be among the Apple products that T-Mobile sells next year, but he said that T-Mo will sell it in a far different way than other carriers. T-Mobile is eliminating all device subsidies in 2013, requiring new customers to pay full price for their phones up front, buy it on installment or bring their own unlocked devices, Legere said speaking at corporate parent Deutsche Telekom’s Capital Markets Day in Bonn. I certainly hope this catches on and costs can truly be lowered in a no-contract bring-your-own-device scenario. |
8th December 2012, 09:11 AM | #661 |
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Breaking into Europe? From your own link they are increasing share in many European locations and are a healthy 32% in UK?
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Also the bump last time was not really shortlived. What makes you think it will be this time? Especially considering the supply issues. You also ignore stuff like this
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8th December 2012, 04:52 PM | #662 |
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Did you read the rest of the article or just that one sentence??
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The UK does not equal Europe. Let's examine the sentence that contains my claim: funk de fino then claims I was talking about how long a bump would last in the US Not only is that dishonest, but I believe it is intentionally dishonest, as it is not the first time funk de fino has tried something like that in this thread. So to summarize for funk de fino: The US does not equal The World. The UK does not equal Europe. This is reminiscent of the damage control that Apple fans would use several years ago when faced with the fact that Apple isn't even listed on PC OS market share charts because they have less than 5% market share. They would produce links that show Apple has greater that 5% market share... in the US. |
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13th December 2012, 04:04 AM | #663 |
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Google Maps app is now available for the iPhone (iPad coming soon).
Yeah, it's pretty damn great. Even has turn-by-turn directions and plugs into Apple Maps to offer mass transit routing. Good to have it back. Now if we could just link it to Siri. |
13th December 2012, 09:38 AM | #664 |
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Yes, it was nice of apple to force googles hand into giving us iOS users turn-by-turn ;-)
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15th December 2012, 03:53 PM | #665 |
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That you fail to see the irony in that post is hilarious. Just stunning.
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You do know your sentence had two parts and I WAS COMMENTING ON THE FIRST PART.
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15th December 2012, 05:30 PM | #666 |
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Wow, complete denial of what is in your posts in this thread. How original.
You do realize all we have to do is go back and read them and see that you are wrong? Aside from that you admit to addressing parts of sentences out of context. So basically you have nothing new to add? |
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16th December 2012, 04:05 AM | #667 |
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Please show my dishonesty because it seems English is not your first language. And you have just lied again with your second last sentence. That's a rare feat. If you really want to get into it then please lay it out bit it could get embarrassing even though I suspect you have no shame
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16th December 2012, 08:42 AM | #669 |
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All the time, it seems. Just let it go.
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16th December 2012, 11:46 PM | #670 |
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The "second last"* sentence in question:
*(coming from a poster who just attacked my English!) You not only admitted it, you screamed it: Wouldn't be the first time you are caught lying by accusing me of lying. That's more than dishonest, that's trying to be sneaky. You seem to be dancing around your claim like someone else I know, so just come right out and say it. I made a statement that the worldwide bump Apple recieved from the iPhone 5 launch would probably be short lived: Even though I also said "probably", you chose to attack that. It seems that you have blinders on that make anything that doesn't put Apple in the most favorable light appear to you to be an attack. Which also is the M.O. of another frequent poster in this thread. Knee jerk damage control. So, please, just come right out and say it: You claim that the worldwide bump that Apple received from the iPhone 5 launch will NOT be short lived. Yes or no? |
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16th December 2012, 11:48 PM | #671 |
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21st December 2012, 01:55 PM | #672 |
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http://www.kantarworldpanel.com/Glob...ne-share-in-US
The latest smartphone sales data from Kantar Worldpanel ComTech shows Apple has achieved its highest ever share in the US (53.3%) in the latest 12 weeks*, with the iPhone 5 helping to boost sales. In Europe, however, Android retains the highest share with 61% of the market, up from 51.8% a year ago. Dominic Sunnebo, global consumer insight director at Kantar Worldpanel ComTech, comments: “Apple has reached a major milestone in the US by passing the 50% share mark for the first time, with further gains expected to be made during December.” |
4th January 2013, 10:57 PM | #673 |
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Woman Tasered After 'Trying to Buy Too Many iPhones':
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5th January 2013, 01:00 AM | #674 |
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5th January 2013, 09:18 AM | #675 |
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Shenanigans: Google Maps redirect issue on Windows Phones is a matter of competition
http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/0...aps-narrative/
When Google began redirecting Windows Phone users – Windows Phone 7.5 included – away from its Google Maps product, the affected parties were incensed. It instantly became a large story given the competition between the two firms across the technology field, not to mention Microsoft’s attempts to gain mobile market share in the smartphone niche. For the record, here is Google’s formal statement on the issue: The mobile web version of Google Maps is optimized for WebKit browsers such as Chrome and Safari. However, since Internet Explorer is not a WebKit browser, Windows Phone devices are not able to access Google Maps for the mobile web. The statement is somewhat odd. It would appear to be Google’s point that as Internet Explorer 10 for Windows Phone 8 uses a different rendering engine than what WebKit employs, it cannot process maps.google.com. This is perplexing as Internet Explorer 10 for Windows Phone 8 uses the same rendering engine as the desktop build of Internet Explorer 10, which is certainly capable of loading and running Google Maps. This type of action is a great example of why Apple wouldn't want to leave a control of an important part of an iOS experience (mapping) to a third party( google). |
5th January 2013, 09:21 AM | #676 |
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5th January 2013, 10:09 AM | #677 |
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Such policies are the norm over here in the UK - it's to stop what we call "box breakers" these are folks who make money by reselling the phones in different countries.
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6th January 2013, 12:03 PM | #678 |
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I'd say it's a fair assumption that this lady was not buying the phones as mere "gifts" for relatives in China.
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6th January 2013, 01:17 PM | #679 |
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My in-laws from Hong Kong tell me it's common to buy iPhones in North America and resell them for a profit in Hong Kong. In fact, my wife's nephew has done this.
With respect to this specific woman, we don't know what she was doing; she could really have been buying them as gifts - but the behaviour is what I would expect from these types of people (specifically the sense of entitlement). In any event, because people abuse the system this way anyone who legitimately wants to do this can't. |
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6th January 2013, 02:39 PM | #680 |
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I know I really shouldn't bother, but I do find your imaginitive ways of debating quite amusing.
Unclear what you mean by bolded comment.
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Now, was the bump shortlived or not? Worldwide or US. Or Scottish if you want?
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