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Old 10th August 2020, 04:22 AM   #41
Lukraak_Sisser
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Yes, nation wide taxes to fund fundamental part of a nation equally is totally impossible in a nation like the US.
That's why the US army is also funded per district with some units getting good stuff and others not based on who their parents are.
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Old 10th August 2020, 08:36 AM   #42
Thermal
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Yes, nation wide taxes to fund fundamental part of a nation equally is totally impossible in a nation like the US.
That's why the US army is also funded per district with some units getting good stuff and others not based on who their parents are.
Exactly. We have the cash. We need the motivation.

The flip side is that in my hood, I've witnessed it not working. Atlantic City NJ was a run down town till casino gaming came to town. They were rolling in the tax jingle in short order, and built a new state of the art high school, complete with highly paid administration and teachers. Members of the child study team were pulling triple digit salaries. They continued to be a dive institution, graduating kids on a fifth grade reading level and having to install metal detectors to stop the violence ( the primary schools also got rebuilt and funded).

So how do we motivate a school system to deliver quality education and opportunities? Is it just money?
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Last edited by Thermal; 10th August 2020 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 10th August 2020, 06:16 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
I was answering Thermal's post on integrating communities not just bussing to create integration in schools.
Much of your post has nothing to do with that discussion.
You're right; I had missed that part of the conversation.

Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
BTW - I know that property taxes are not based on income - but you are missing the the point: How does one just move into a more expensive house in a more upscale neighborhood without a corresponding increase in income?
If housing is developed to meet the lower income integration the property tax levy on the social housing will have to be correspondingly lower. That will decrease the per capita funding.
In my state, in theory, the funding inequities have been fixed. Districts aren't strictly dependent on their local tax base. Meanwhile, charter schools are supposed to provide districts with competition, which has happened, but that has pluses and minuses. A lot still depends on transportation: Many parents will default to the school that runs a bus in the neighborhood. And there is still de facto segregation because that's how some parts of town are organized. So then comes the issue of community integration which I don't want to see forced on people, but it could be incentivized.

The posh high school ended up with extra capacity and found it was worth their while to run buses outside the district to bring in a few kids from less-exclusive parts of town. The charter system allows for some pretty good schools in pretty rundown neighborhoods. Bottom line, motivated parents can sometimes find options better than their default neighborhood school, but what does that do to neighborhood schools? They're supposed to "compete," somehow, but having a bunch of underfunded entities trying to claw resources away from each other isn't pretty, either.
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Old 10th August 2020, 06:18 PM   #44
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Yes, nation wide taxes to fund fundamental part of a nation equally is totally impossible in a nation like the US.
That's why the US army is also funded per district with some units getting good stuff and others not based on who their parents are.
Begging the question.
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Old 10th August 2020, 09:29 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Begging the question.
Why? Rockinkt suggested that a nation as large as the US was unable to collect taxes nationwide which would then be equally divided among a service essential to the country because of all the states.

I merely pointed out that it seems the US is able to do that with the army, so why would it be unable to do so for it's education.

and @thermal, I don't fully know how to ensure it will work perfectly everywhere, and there are many other underlying problems with the US. For instance, if you do your best in school but you know you'll never be able to actually earn a livable wage because of your background that will not be a motivation. But is the fact that it won't work perfectly grounds to keep ensuring only a select few get good education?
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Old 10th August 2020, 09:46 PM   #46
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The homeschool perspective: you deserve what you are getting.

Our ten year old is studying for the SAT now.

The nine year old can make about $25 an hour doing firewood production and $100 an hour on the bulldozer. He's pretty much done with academics.

A little over 50% of our property tax is to fund the schools, which I have paid for 34 years, and will continue to pay. We do not receive one penny in support.

The local school is spending $33,000 per student and is scoring 17th percentile internationally, tied with Mexico. Six figure salaries and benefits for a job that is only 9 months.

Now that the Covid insanity is here, they're claiming all the students will be 6 feet apart, which is impossible given the total square footage of the rooms. They cannot even do basic math.

We don't care. Because the parents, the teachers and administrators, the school board - they don't care. So why should we? Alaska was last place in the nation on the last round of academic tests. Not a peep out of anyone about it.

Last edited by AlaskaBushPilot; 10th August 2020 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 18th August 2020, 01:32 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
You're right; I had missed that part of the conversation.



In my state, in theory, the funding inequities have been fixed. Districts aren't strictly dependent on their local tax base. Meanwhile, charter schools are supposed to provide districts with competition, which has happened, but that has pluses and minuses. A lot still depends on transportation: Many parents will default to the school that runs a bus in the neighborhood. And there is still de facto segregation because that's how some parts of town are organized. So then comes the issue of community integration which I don't want to see forced on people, but it could be incentivized.

The posh high school ended up with extra capacity and found it was worth their while to run buses outside the district to bring in a few kids from less-exclusive parts of town. The charter system allows for some pretty good schools in pretty rundown neighborhoods. Bottom line, motivated parents can sometimes find options better than their default neighborhood school, but what does that do to neighborhood schools? They're supposed to "compete," somehow, but having a bunch of underfunded entities trying to claw resources away from each other isn't pretty, either.
Thank you for your detailed explanation of how the system can be made to work better.
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Old 18th August 2020, 01:39 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Why? Rockinkt suggested that a nation as large as the US was unable to collect taxes nationwide which would then be equally divided among a service essential to the country because of all the states.

I merely pointed out that it seems the US is able to do that with the army, so why would it be unable to do so for it's education.

and @thermal, I don't fully know how to ensure it will work perfectly everywhere, and there are many other underlying problems with the US. For instance, if you do your best in school but you know you'll never be able to actually earn a livable wage because of your background that will not be a motivation. But is the fact that it won't work perfectly grounds to keep ensuring only a select few get good education?
In both Canada and the US - the military is a Federal responsibility and Education is a Provincial/State responsibility.
Two different levels of government with responsibilities written into our Constitutions. In other words - the system can only be changed in our countries by an amendment to the constitutional powers between the province/states and the respective Federal governments.
That ain't going to happen anytime soon as there are too many competing interests.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 05:09 AM   #49
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School officially started in Philly today- virtual school.

It occurred to me that with "virtual" learning, there seems little reason to tie a student to their local school.

Are we missing a great opportunity to integrate education?
Why not have children of the same grade randomly assigned teachers in the same time zone?

A virtual classroom could include students from a poor neighborhood in Miami, a rich kid from Bloomfield Michigan, and a kid from some rural West Virginian holler.

Further, standards for education could be more effectively, well, standardized.

Anyway, obviously there would be complications from such an effort- but it seems like it would be worthwhile to take advantage of this opportunity to give it a try.
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Old 6th September 2020, 02:17 AM   #50
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The opportunity for virtual integration is certainly there, but the problem is, someone still has to supervise the children. Instructionally it might work but someone still has to provide the straight-up child care that schools currently handle (or did until late March or so).

For older, motivated kids, a lot could be done with online modules. That depends on the individual student, though.
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