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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Allais Effect , Dark Flow , relativity , Theory of Relativity

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Old 30th December 2017, 02:54 PM   #361
Bjarne
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Also given Bjarne has a terminal limit it must be such that it hasn't reached that terminal limit yet (over billions of years). Otherwise you wouldn't know if there actually were not such acceleration ever or the terminal limit had simply been reached (perhaps billions of years ago).

ETA: I seem to recall the terminal speed being 600 km/s some posts back, but now Bjarne is tossing "300 km/s", "200.000 km/s" and "Ė But who knows" around indicating again it is all just crap from his arse as just 0 km/s (relative to anything) would fit the "Ė But who knows" definition criteria.
Not all objects moves at maximum possible dark flow speed. If you moved 600 km/s forward and 300km/s backward,- your netto absolutte speed is 300 km/s
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Old 30th December 2017, 04:23 PM   #362
The Man
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Not all objects moves at maximum possible dark flow speed. If you moved 600 km/s forward and 300km/s backward,- your netto absolutte speed is 300 km/s
Again, how would you know? You just asserted before that you in fact don't know. Again simply having a terminal speed means after billions of years of acceleration that speed could have been reached already. Your own example of a possible test result put that time at just 19 million years to reach c and that's 300,000 km/s.

Velocity, like force is a vector and must be added as vectors. A continuous 'flow' of force will have a continuous and cumulative effect even if variable forces and velocities at times directly oppose each other. Perhaps canceling each other. Again the cumulative effect would be further acceleration in one direction would not be possible or would be limited. With that limit decreasing over time (tending to 0 acceleration possible in that direction). However, again you lack a defined "absolute" frame, so how can one say acceleration is limited, possible or impossible in some direction in such an undefined frame, or even if there is any motion of the object in that frame. You're actually doing better with just the 'I don't know claims' instead of the pretense of knowing stuff even you assert you don't know.

ETA: You seem to be simply adding and subtracting speeds instead of considering forces and accelerations.
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Old 31st December 2017, 01:25 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Again, how would you know? You just asserted before that you in fact don't know. Again simply having a terminal speed means after billions of years of acceleration that speed could have been reached already. Your own example of a possible test result put that time at just 19 million years to reach c and that's 300,000 km/s.

Velocity, like force is a vector and must be added as vectors. A continuous 'flow' of force will have a continuous and cumulative effect even if variable forces and velocities at times directly oppose each other. Perhaps canceling each other. Again the cumulative effect would be further acceleration in one direction would not be possible or would be limited. With that limit decreasing over time (tending to 0 acceleration possible in that direction). However, again you lack a defined "absolute" frame, so how can one say acceleration is limited, possible or impossible in some direction in such an undefined frame, or even if there is any motion of the object in that frame. You're actually doing better with just the 'I don't know claims' instead of the pretense of knowing stuff even you assert you don't know.

ETA: You seem to be simply adding and subtracting speeds instead of considering forces and accelerations.
Dark Flow is measured relative to CMB, - 600 km/s
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Old 31st December 2017, 02:11 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Dark Flow is measured relative to CMB, - 600 km/s
Why?

The CMB consists of photons in motion. You can see the direction they come from but their actual position is where they hit your measuring device. There is no distance to the CMB.
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Old 31st December 2017, 02:55 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
Why?

The CMB consists of photons in motion. You can see the direction they come from but their actual position is where they hit your measuring device. There is no distance to the CMB.
I am not saying that CMB is a point at absolute rest. But only that the speed 600 km/s is relative to a phenomena we know. Its quite open how fast we really moves, relative to a point at absolute rest. Its likely that our absolute speed is near / between 100 and 400 km/s - but we can't be sure.
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Old 31st December 2017, 07:30 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Dark Flow is measured relative to CMB, - 600 km/s
So what, that doesn't eliminate your stated terminal velocity nor the cumulative effects of the force you assert from that "flow" regardless of whatever other motions a body might have. Do please learn some basic mechanics. As you seem to assert this "Dark Flow" is a universal thing then the universe as a whole, if not just the local system, galaxy group or super cluster may have already reached your terminal velocity. Simply put, you have no means of distinguishing your absolute motion from any other motion since you can't even define your absolute frame and admit yourself that it would still be relative. As a result you seem to be just looking for anomalies to label as your absolute motion which by your own assertion you really don't know what to expect from or for that motion. What few things you do assert to expect, orbits collapsing and resistance to motion in particular directions (related to the ecliptic) we don't seem to find. You have a lot of data to research and limits on the actual extents of your notions to determine. Just claiming you don't know and then laying claim to any anomalis data as indicative of your assertions won't cut it.
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Old 31st December 2017, 07:38 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
I am not saying that CMB is a point at absolute rest. But only that the speed 600 km/s is relative to a phenomena we know. Its quite open how fast we really moves, relative to a point at absolute rest. Its likely that our absolute speed is near / between 100 and 400 km/s - but we can't be sure.
Lots of things have lots of speeds "relative to a phenomena we know". Once again you simply assert that you "can't be sure" and then just pull a couple of crap numbers out of your arse anyway. Again I recommend you just stick with the 'I can't be sure' assertions and not present any numbers until you have some demonstrable basis for them.

ETA: Here let me help you, Pluto's orbit is 17.1 degrees off the ecliptic. By your assertions that means the orbit should be 'more or less collapsing'. Research Pluto orbital data over time and see how stable or unstable (collapsing) it is. That may give you a least some limits on the extent of the effects of your notions. Remember depending on the results of your terminal velocity (which again you assert you just don't know) reaching that velocity can mean either just no additional effects from your 'dark flow' or no further acceleration of any kind in that direction.
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Old 31st December 2017, 09:55 AM   #368
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Bjarne....you're ignoring the simplest of questions you have ever been asked:

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
..... Earth is acceleration (constantly) , regardless whether you like it or not. Allready now the first measurement behave excactly as predicted.
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
At what rate? (M/sec/sec) Has this rate always been the same?
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I want m/sec/sec. Should be simple enough.
Why is this so difficult for you?
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Old 31st December 2017, 09:55 AM   #369
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Face it. If you can't even define the Trivial solution, you have no "theory". You really don't even have a testable hypothesis.
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Old 31st December 2017, 10:04 AM   #370
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The Theory of Relativity will begin to fall apart in 2016/2017 - Part II

Tick tock. The is running out. 2018 is almost upon us.
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Old 31st December 2017, 11:19 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
So what, that doesn't eliminate your stated terminal velocity nor the cumulative effects of the force you assert from that "flow" regardless of whatever other motions a body might have. Do please learn some basic mechanics. As you seem to assert this "Dark Flow" is a universal thing then the universe as a whole, if not just the local system, galaxy group or super cluster may have already reached your terminal velocity. Simply put, you have no means of distinguishing your absolute motion from any other motion since you can't even define your absolute frame and admit yourself that it would still be relative. As a result you seem to be just looking for anomalies to label as your absolute motion which by your own assertion you really don't know what to expect from or for that motion. What few things you do assert to expect, orbits collapsing and resistance to motion in particular directions (related to the ecliptic) we don't seem to find. You have a lot of data to research and limits on the actual extents of your notions to determine. Just claiming you don't know and then laying claim to any anomalis data as indicative of your assertions won't cut it.
Take one step at the time fellow.
The Cause of the Allais Effect (an anisotropic acceleration) is already a huge hint that reveals a lot , not fare away from you nose.
That's a good place to start furure research that certainly will follow.
To my opinion that acceleration is as you know Acceleration due to Gravity of our own universe.
You can't have the full overview today.
This is not how science works. Take it easy, one step at the time.

Last edited by Bjarne; 31st December 2017 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 31st December 2017, 11:57 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Take one step at the time fellow.
Depends on the step. Random steps get you nowhere and incorrect steps get you, well, just wrong. Oh, and my user name is not "fellow".


Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
The Cause of the Allais Effect (an anisotropic acceleration) is already a huge hint that reveals a lot , not fare away from you nose.
No, an anomalous result of dubious reliability or "Cause" actually reveals nothing. You've already started with an incorrect step.

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
That's a good place to start furure research that certainly will follow.
To my opinion that acceleration is as you know Acceleration due to Gravity of our own universe.
Nope, I don't know that and by your own assertions you don't know that. That ('I don't know') is again the best place to start and remain barring actual "furure research". Great, you feel the "Allais Effect" is "a good place to start furure research" then get to it and stop just pulling crap numbers out of your arse.

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
You can't have the full overview today.
I don't recall asking you for "full overview today".

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
This is not how science works. Take it easy, one step at the time.
But that is not what you are doing, you are just making up numbers and pretending they have some significance. That's not "how science works". Heck, it is hardly even how numerology works. Again just look above, not even half a step and you jump right to "The Cause of the Allais Effect" being "Acceleration due to Gravity of our own universe". With no evidence or even establishment there being any demonstrable "Effect".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allais_effect
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Old 31st December 2017, 12:19 PM   #373
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Blimey, Bjarne, you're making a habit of this. Do I have to go on quoting this simple question back to you for weeks on end before you give it some attention? You stated something as fact, and I simply want to know what it is you are claiming. People will draw their own inference from you so obviously ignoring such a simple question, time after time.

Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
At what rate? (M/sec/sec) Has this rate always been the same?
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Old 1st January 2018, 08:45 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Yes off course this is what I mean, and also wrote many years ago.
All planet rotation is caused by fast moving moons. Sometimes the moons is demise and the planet still rotate. The exact same principle is the cause with star rotation.
Could you possibly define the word noted above as it is used in the sentence you wrote? Also the sentence following and the sentence preceding as to evidence for them in some detail.............
Also, a word meaning multiple (more than one) is not followed by "is", but by "are".
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Old 1st January 2018, 08:53 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
The acronyms youíre excreting are as nonsensical as your theories and getting worse. If I want to delve into madness Iíll consult with some Eldridge horrors. Theyíre far more interesting.
Eldritch horrors!! Eldridge Cleaver!!

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Old 1st January 2018, 08:58 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Take one step at the time fellow.
The Cause of the Allais Effect (an anisotropic acceleration) is already a huge hint that reveals a lot , not fare away from you nose.
That's a good place to start furure research that certainly will follow.
To my opinion that acceleration is as you know Acceleration due to Gravity of our own universe.
You can't have the full overview today.
This is not how science works. Take it easy, one step at the time.
Based on your choices of phrasing it is not possible for what you are claiming to be correct or useful or supportable. You need to rethink so that you can put your ideas into meaningful English. And, thus, meaningful (hopefully) science.

At this point you are simply not succeeding in that endeavor.
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Old 1st January 2018, 09:10 AM   #377
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Doing some very quick research I (1) found out who Bjarne is and thus did NOT use anything that might mention him as far as I can tell. and (2) found information otherwise that actually has the title: http://milesmathis.com/allais.html............... The Cause of the Allais Effect (an anisotropic acceleration)

Interesting but not proof of anything I can note. Enjoy, Also, wondering why Bjarne could not have just provided this source................
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Old 2nd January 2018, 09:01 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
I thought this is what you meant, but I was not sure.


Excactly. I am happy for that question , and this is also why I asked if you understood the meaning for ASAM?

The effect of increased and decreased vertical motion its not so strong as EFDA.
EDFA effects both nodes with the same force all the time.
It is the reduced or addition Dark Flow (DF) speed that counts.
The speed of Mercury = 47000 m/s - inclination 7į -
You can therefore calculate the up/down speed variation of the nodes to +/- 5500m/s, - this will give you a relativistic RR effect = 0.0000000001680556 m/s2

If the ASAM also is 47000 m/s RR will impact the inclination half of the orbit time.
This means stronger RR caused by ASAM
However the DFA is overall stronger and will win.
If the ASAM speed increased to be for example 3 times the node speed, ASAM will start to take over. I am too lazy to calculate exact.
Every schoolboy can do it.
The more tilted the orbit is relative to DFA the stronger ASAM will interact and sooner or later dominate.
If the orbit become mainly aligned with the DFA axis the orbit will collapse.

You live on an old moon.
Once a Giant planet, much bigger as Jupiter crashed down on the Sun.
Total chaos was ruling between a few hundred moons that planet had.
Few Moons survived;- Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars.
Some of these moons (now planets) captured a few other of Titanicís Moon..
The aroid belt is also rubbish left by this chaotic time. Ė Water did not come here.
However, the Earth included water was brought here, by Titanic.
One day we will lose Mercury, then Venus, Earth, Mars, and next Jupiter.
If lucky the Moon Europa will survive, it will have ocean and maybe also land, cows, brainwashed fools, idiots an potatoes could one day work / live on that planet / old moon. Maybe they will be more open minded.



You mean every orbit should have angular orbit inclination relative to DFA.
Yes, this is true if ASAM not existed.
Donít underestimate the force or ASAM and donít overestimate the force of addition / reduce node up/down speed .

The angular inclination only happens when RR influence of ASAM is weaker as the effect caused by variation of the vertical force.

The faster orbit speed, the faster the planet will respond to both ASAM and the vertical force.
Mercury is the fastest planet to respond to both changings, hence also faster to be aligned with DFA. The slower outer planets are many times slower to respond.

So if you ask why, you must first at all know the inclination history , thatís sure.
In all cases, this influence is very small (as you see on the minus 10 to minus 12 scale) and very slow working especially for the outer slow planets and objects, therefore you have the planet X superstition.
What is ASAM?
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Old 2nd January 2018, 09:19 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
What is ASAM?
It's god in The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 09:39 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
What is ASAM?
ASAM

Quote:
American Society of Addiction Medicine is the Nation's leading addiction medicine society representing physicians, clinicians and other professionals.
I'll leave interpreting his posts in light of this information up to the reader.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 01:29 PM   #381
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Actual Scientists Are Meanies.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 01:56 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Actual Scientists Are Meanies.
Ah, I was wondering if the title of this thread will be changed for part III and called, 'The theory of relativity will begin to fall apart someday part IV'
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Old 2nd January 2018, 02:22 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
It's god in The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe.
Darn, I was hoping for a dance move
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:42 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Eldritch horrors!! Eldridge Cleaver*!!

http://supernaturalfanon.wikia.com/w...dritch_Horrors

* Not one of Theodore Cleaver's relatives!!!
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Old 2nd January 2018, 10:52 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
What is ASAM?
Additional Sideward Absolute Motion
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:55 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Additional Sideward Absolute Motion
"Sideward" in relation to the CMB?
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Old 3rd January 2018, 04:36 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Additional Sideward Absolute Motion
Bjarne, your home-made ideas don't acquire any authority by being made into fancy acronyms.

You have (as you recently repeated) started with an unsupported idea of alternative gravity (something you call space elasticity). Every time that idea turns out to fail to fit observed reality, you add some factor to explain that.

Now, that game would be somewhat interesting if you could make the math fit. But you can't. Instead, you keep adding new factors for compensation and mumble that the math is vewwy vewwy complicated and would require special software.

Face it, Bjarne, your idea never flew and adding bells whistles and extra gimmicks isn't going to make it more able to take off.

"Additional Sideways Absolute Motion" is a concept so silly that I can actually understand you want to shroud it in an abbreviation.

About your absolute motion claim: How do we detect our absolute motion?

- Well, you already claimed that we can't.

- So how do we know it is there?

- And how do you propose to use it to explain any observable phenomenon?

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Old 3rd January 2018, 04:38 AM   #388
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m/sec/sec, Bjarne please. You've had plenty of time to come up with a figure.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 04:38 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Additional Sideward Absolute Motion


Ah, so itís a worthless imaginary term that canít be calculated. Remember you have admitted thereís no way to actually reference the supposed absolute rest position upon which your physics themed fan-fiction rests. You might as well talk about dilithium crystals powering a warp core for all the relation the term has to real-world Physics.

Itís a shame I donít run one of the online technobabble generators. I could add your adorable term to the matrix.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 04:43 AM   #390
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The Theory of Relativity will begin to fall apart in 2016/2017 - Part II

Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
"Sideward" in relation to the CMB?


ďSidewardĒ in relation to the absolute rest position heís admitted he canít describe and canít calculate. Heís also made it clear he sees no problem with the cornerstone of his physics themed fan-fiction being impossible to actually reference in any equation.

Crap like that might fly in B-movie grade sci-fi, but this guy wants to be taken seriously by actual physicists!

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Old 3rd January 2018, 08:15 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
ďSidewardĒ in relation to the absolute rest position heís admitted he canít describe and canít calculate. Heís also made it clear he sees no problem with the cornerstone of his physics themed fan-fiction being impossible to actually reference in any equation.

Crap like that might fly in B-movie grade sci-fi, but this guy wants to be taken seriously by actual physicists!
Just like so many others!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 3rd January 2018, 08:16 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Additional Sideward Absolute Motion
SAM I AM!!!!!!!
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Old 3rd January 2018, 10:17 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
"Sideward" in relation to the CMB?
Relative to the Dark Flos axis
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Old 3rd January 2018, 10:44 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Bjarne, your home-made ideas don't acquire any authority by being made into fancy acronyms.
If someone dont want to learn these simply abbreviations it only shows a person is not serious.

Quote:
You have (as you recently repeated) started with an unsupported idea of alternative gravity (something you call space elasticity). Every time that idea turns out to fail to fit observed reality, you add some factor to explain that
.
What are you talking about ? - there are no failure one single place.

Quote:
Now, that game would be somewhat interesting if you could make the math fit. But you can't. Instead, you keep adding new factors for compensation and mumble that the math is vewwy vewwy complicated and would require special software.
If I would use a lot of time of learning how to program the necessary
software, - Or pay someone to do it, - I will guarantee you all I would get is accusations, - claiming that I have manipulated the codes.
Instead, see it that way: hopefully already this summer a complete ADG measurement will be done in Greenland, - right place and right time, using 2 different gravimeters, - then, that day DFA is will be a matter of fact.
Then you will have to face not only that DFA is real, but also that it will affect every single object in different way.
And in the end of the day exactly as I tried to tell you.
One day of Measurement can shake the scientific community, (and a world full of BW fools) not seen since it was known that the earth is round.

Quote:
Face it, Bjarne, your idea never flew and adding bells whistles and extra gimmicks isn't going to make it more able to take off.
You should already she the signs, but don't worry it is still plenty of hope, - soon, very soon you will...
http://www.sciepub.com/portal/downlo...faac-3-2-3.pdf

Quote:
"Additional Sideways Absolute Motion" is a concept so silly that I can actually understand you want to shroud it in an abbreviation.
The signature is already embedded in the Pioneer 10 and 11 data
and here https://www.eso.org/public/news/eso1438
And it is off course a consequence of the theory..

Quote:
About your absolute motion claim: How do we detect our absolute motion?
- Well, you already claimed that we can't.
- So how do we know it is there?
- And how do you propose to use it to explain any observable phenomenon?
Read one of the post above to Steen, as pointed out many times, the keyword is that relativistic effects can either increase or decrease, depending on whether you'll increase of decrease your absolute speed.. Therefore there are several ways you actually can measure how the new universe works.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 10:47 AM   #395
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Ah, you're back, Bjarne. Now perhaps you'll answer my simple little question (m/sec/sec).
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Old 3rd January 2018, 11:21 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Relative to the Dark Flos axis
Which is relative to your absolute frame of reference which is relative to your absolute rest position, rendering it incalculable. Adding steps does not magically transmute your mythology's foundation of sand into bedrock.

"Incalculable" is useful hyperbole when discussing the value of a piece of art or an archaeological find. "Incalculable" values are of limited utility in physics.

Unless of course you're referring to this Flos and not mistyping "flow."

https://flos.com

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Old 3rd January 2018, 11:23 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Ah, you're back, Bjarne. Now perhaps you'll answer my simple little question (m/sec/sec).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOKociU8t_Q
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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:11 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
If someone dont want to learn these simply abbreviations it only shows a person is not serious.
Why should we learn YOUR random abbreviations? Because you are too lazy to write things in full?

Quote:
.
What are you talking about ? - there are no failure one single place.
Well, no. There are multiple failures in multiple places. And they have all been pointed out to you, many times.


Quote:
If I would use a lot of time of learning how to program the necessary
software, - Or pay someone to do it, - I will guarantee you all I would get is accusations, - claiming that I have manipulated the codes.
Nonsense. You don't need special software. You need math. Show your math and everybody can see if it is correct or not.

Quote:
Instead, see it that way: hopefully already this summer a complete ADG measurement will be done in Greenland, - right place and right time, using 2 different gravimeters, - then, that day DFA is will be a matter of fact.
Then you will have to face not only that DFA is real, but also that it will affect every single object in different way.
And in the end of the day exactly as I tried to tell you.
One day of Measurement can shake the scientific community, (and a world full of BW fools) not seen since it was known that the earth is round.
For how many years have you been predicting that "soon the world will see"?

Quote:
You should already she the signs, but don't worry it is still plenty of hope, - soon, very soon you will...
http://www.sciepub.com/portal/downlo...faac-3-2-3.pdf
"Very soon, very soon, you will all see" ... Again and again, year after year. This is pathetic, Bjarne.

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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:13 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post

Read one of the post above to Steen, as pointed out many times, the keyword is that relativistic effects can either increase or decrease, depending on whether you'll increase of decrease your absolute speed.. Therefore there are several ways you actually can measure how the new universe works.
OK; so now you claim that absolute speed CAN be determined? Fine! Then do so: What is Earth's current absolute speed? Km/sec and direction?

Put your data where your mouth is.

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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:37 PM   #400
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I don't want your bank account details, Bjarne. You don't need to be so secretive with your numbers. I just want to know roughly at what rate the earth is accelerating. If you can't or won't tell us what this number is, could you at least be courteous enough to not continue ignoring this request and tell me why you won't give me the number.

Personally, I can only think of two good reasons why you wouldn't give me such a figure, and one of those reasons is that you simply don't have it or know how it would be calculated.
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