ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags internet issues , net neutrality

Reply
Old 15th December 2017, 08:52 AM   #1
Ron_Tomkins
Satan's Helper
 
Ron_Tomkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 42,950
Have you contacted your Congress Person demanding you want net neutrality to stay?

Cause I think you should, unless

1) You don't believe that net neutrality is in danger of disappearing

2) You don't believe losing net neutrality affects you at all
__________________
"I am a collection of water, calcium and organic molecules called Carl Sagan"

Carl Sagan
Ron_Tomkins is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 09:14 AM   #2
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 27,738
3) You don't have a Congress Person on grounds of not being American.

Dave
__________________
Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 09:43 AM   #3
RecoveringYuppy
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,780
Who are the major backbone providers these days and how international are they?
__________________
REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years.

Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 09:45 AM   #4
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
There's really no sense in contacting my reps in congress because I'm from Massachusetts and they all have their heads screwed on straight. It's sort of a helpless feeling watching republicans run roughshod over the country and being powerless to stop it.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 09:56 AM   #5
Ron_Tomkins
Satan's Helper
 
Ron_Tomkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 42,950
Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
3) You don't have a Congress Person on grounds of not being American.

Dave
You don't need to be an American to contact them and tell them what you think.

"Aw, but do they care what you think?" you'll say

They'll pay more attention if it's joined by millions of other voices doing the same as well.
__________________
"I am a collection of water, calcium and organic molecules called Carl Sagan"

Carl Sagan
Ron_Tomkins is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 10:02 AM   #6
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 69,585
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
There's really no sense in contacting my reps in congress because I'm from Massachusetts and they all have their heads screwed on straight. It's sort of a helpless feeling watching republicans run roughshod over the country and being powerless to stop it.
Contact your reps and encourage them to join in a class-action lawsuit.

KOMO News: Inslee promises state action on net neutrality protections

New York state AG to sue over net neutrality reversal
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 10:04 AM   #7
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
She already did this morning.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 12:38 PM   #8
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 27,738
Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
You don't need to be an American to contact them and tell them what you think.
No, but there has to be a definable Congress Person for me to contact; there isn't one for the UK.

However, a Congresswoman has just e-mailed me to say how action is needed to protect net neutrality, which is a bit weird.

Dave
__________________
Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 12:42 PM   #9
RecoveringYuppy
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,780
Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
However, a Congresswoman has just e-mailed me to say how action is needed
The Congresswoman from Narnia? That's not the worst fantasy land our Congress Critters represent.
__________________
REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years.

Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 12:50 PM   #10
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,231
I'm fine with scrapping net neutrality and it will make things worse for me. But I do have a problem with most infrastructure regulation.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 12:52 PM   #11
paulhutch
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Blackstone River Valley, MA
Posts: 2,254
Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
You don't need to be an American to contact them and tell them what you think.
Actually I tried to contact one last week that wasn't my specific congress person and they would not accept electronic contact except from their constituents (had to provide your zip code to get through). Which frankly makes sense he should not care what I think only what his constituents think. I could have snail mailed but he would rightly through it away and if I called I assume the office staff would not be interested.
paulhutch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 12:54 PM   #12
paulhutch
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Blackstone River Valley, MA
Posts: 2,254
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
There's really no sense in contacting my reps in congress because I'm from Massachusetts and they all have their heads screwed on straight. It's sort of a helpless feeling watching republicans run roughshod over the country and being powerless to stop it.
Same goes for me, I did contact both our senators and my rep a few years ago about this but since now I know they are already completely on my side there's no need to increase their office staff's workload.
paulhutch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 01:01 PM   #13
carrps
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 111
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
There's really no sense in contacting my reps in congress because I'm from Massachusetts and they all have their heads screwed on straight. It's sort of a helpless feeling watching republicans run roughshod over the country and being powerless to stop it.
Me, too. I'm in California.

But I did send an email to Maxine Waters re: the tax bill. Just because.
carrps is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 01:04 PM   #14
Rougarou
Thinker
 
Rougarou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 176
No, but I did send an email to the FCC supporting net neutrality when it first came up years ago. Since then, with more information, I'm not sure net neutrality is a good thing. I haven't considered this in a while, so I'll have to catch up on the issues and arguments.
Rougarou is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 01:53 PM   #15
paulhutch
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Blackstone River Valley, MA
Posts: 2,254
We have always experienced net neutrality it's just that it hasn't always been, or even needed to be, a direct rule.

A. When the public started using the internet back in the 1990's connections were all done through telco provided lines that are Title II regulated so they could not discriminate against ISPs or services. The ISP's could discriminate but since there was such a low bar to entry (buy or rent a modem pool) everyone had choices in ISP. So if your ISP blocked or throttled some services you could just switch provider.

B. In the 21st century broadband grew but many of the early connections were DSL on telco lines so again between Title II regulation and ISP choice no specific net neutrality rules were needed.

C. Then the technical limits of telco lines had everyone switching to coaxial cable, fiber or cellular for broadband. This was when the issue of net neutrality raised it's ugly head. Some cable operators blocked services like Vonage and Apple's Face time app to squeeze more money out of customers. Others bandwidth limited services that they didn't like to increase their profits. All the offenses were eventually sorted out in the public's favor but it was clear that to prevent a continuing flood of problems the FCC enacted the first net neutrality rules.

D. The FCC used a very light touch with a new rule that virtually all the industry accepted. The exception was Verizon who went to court and, as the lawyers at the EFF predicted, the rules were struck down as stepping beyond the FCC's legal authority.

E. In 2015 the new rule was adopted which reclassified the cable/fiber provider and ISP combo companies as subject to Title II. That rule survived court challenges but has now been repealed by the FCC. So we are now back at step C.
paulhutch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 06:56 PM   #16
Cain
Straussian
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,296
Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Cause I think you should, unless

1) You don't believe that net neutrality is in danger of disappearing

2) You don't believe losing net neutrality affects you at all
I don't even have Internet access.
__________________
April 13th, 2018:
Ranb: I can't think of anything useful you contributed to a thread in the last few years.
Cain is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 07:07 PM   #17
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,473
I tried to but I didn't have any service
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 08:15 PM   #18
rwguinn
Penultimate Amazing
 
rwguinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,096
And my congressman accepted 1.2 million bucks to do away with NN. He's an honest congressman- he stays bought...

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
"
I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
rwguinn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th December 2017, 12:52 PM   #19
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,231
Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
And my congressman accepted 1.2 million bucks to do away with NN. He's an honest congressman- he stays bought...

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Counterargument

They donated 1.2 million because he was anti net neutrality before they met him.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th December 2017, 02:25 PM   #20
The_Animus
Master Poster
 
The_Animus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,896
Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Cause I think you should, unless

1) You don't believe that net neutrality is in danger of disappearing

2) You don't believe losing net neutrality affects you at all
Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
3) You don't have a Congress Person on grounds of not being American.

Dave
4) Your congress critters don't give a **** about you or what you think and likely wouldn't even read it.
__________________
Straw Man, Ad Hominem, Moving the Goalposts, and a massive post count are all good indicators that a poster is intellectually dishonest and not interested in real discussion.

Feeding trolls only makes them stronger, yet it is so hard to refrain.
The_Animus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th December 2017, 02:42 PM   #21
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,231
Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
4) Your congress critters don't give a **** about you or what you think and likely wouldn't even read it.
Because they think you are wrong, doesn't mean they don't care. Some of them are doing this because they care.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th December 2017, 08:30 PM   #22
The_Animus
Master Poster
 
The_Animus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,896
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Because they think you are wrong, doesn't mean they don't care. Some of them are doing this because they care.
Oh they care. About the donations from Comcast and Verizon. Though it's not really about the donations themselves, but rather using that money to keep their position and thus lifestyle, at the expense of the people they are supposed to serve.
__________________
Straw Man, Ad Hominem, Moving the Goalposts, and a massive post count are all good indicators that a poster is intellectually dishonest and not interested in real discussion.

Feeding trolls only makes them stronger, yet it is so hard to refrain.
The_Animus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th December 2017, 10:46 PM   #23
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 17,086
My rep is a Trump whore but I did send e-mails through their websites to my two senators.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 12:14 AM   #24
This is The End
 
This is The End's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,469
Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
D. The FCC used a very light touch with a new rule that virtually all the industry accepted. The exception was Verizon who went to court and, as the lawyers at the EFF predicted, the rules were struck down as stepping beyond the FCC's legal authority.

E. In 2015 the new rule was adopted which reclassified the cable/fiber provider and ISP combo companies as subject to Title II. That rule survived court challenges but has now been repealed by the FCC. So we are now back at step C.

What's interesting about that, for anyone who does not know at least, is that the bastard that is currently the FCC Chairman (who just pretty much single handedly repealed net neutrality) was a former top lawyer for, you guessed it, Verizon.

Even though he left that job many years ago he was still molded there. Has friends there. And old habits, apparently, die hard.
__________________
________________________
This is The End is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 01:09 AM   #25
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,140
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I'm fine with scrapping net neutrality and it will make things worse for me. But I do have a problem with most infrastructure regulation.
A post like this without an explanation of why you hold your position is pretty pointless.
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 05:04 AM   #26
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 17,086
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I'm fine with scrapping net neutrality and it will make things worse for me. But I do have a problem with most infrastructure regulation.
I'm willing to walk all over your principals for faster internet.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 05:12 AM   #27
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,231
Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Oh they care. About the donations from Comcast and Verizon. Though it's not really about the donations themselves, but rather using that money to keep their position and thus lifestyle, at the expense of the people they are supposed to serve.
Or they actually are anti net neutrality.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 06:02 AM   #28
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist.
Moderator
 
Loss Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 25,800
Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Cause I think you should, unless

1) You don't believe that net neutrality is in danger of disappearing

2) You don't believe losing net neutrality affects you at all

I wrote a comment to the FCC. Not only did they ignore me, the chair of the FCC made a series of videos openly mocking people who were against the rule change.
__________________
I have the honor to be
Your Obdt. St

L. Leader
Loss Leader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 06:53 AM   #29
Cleon
King of the Pod People
 
Cleon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 25,659
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I'm willing to walk all over your principals for faster internet.
Walk? I'd dance over them Gangnam Style.

The whole "let big corporations screw over whoever they want" philosophy sucks.
__________________
"People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich
Cleon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 07:04 AM   #30
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,231
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
A post like this without an explanation of why you hold your position is pretty pointless.
I have no interest in convincing you.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 07:18 AM   #31
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 17,086
Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Walk? I'd dance over them Gangnam Style.

The whole "let big corporations screw over whoever they want" philosophy sucks.
I would if I had the rhythm.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 07:30 AM   #32
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 23,048
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I have no interest in convincing you.
One's level of participation in the thread seems odd in that light.

Like Noahfence, I haven't bothered to contact my congressmen, being from Vermont. Aside from being a cheering section, I don't think I need to tell Peter Welch, Pat Leahy, and of course Bernie Sanders, which side to take.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 08:24 AM   #33
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,422
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
A post like this without an explanation of why you hold your position is pretty pointless.
Even when pressed, he'll generally refuse to give any viable justification that even can be given any consideration at all. Thus, it's probably good policy to just ignore him until such time as he actually gives something to work with beyond simply being a contrarian.

Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I wrote a comment to the FCC. Not only did they ignore me, the chair of the FCC made a series of videos openly mocking people who were against the rule change.
Putting Ajit Pai there was one of the things that I held against Obama.

As for my Republican congresspeople... I strongly suspect that they completely don't care what I think, officially being a Democrat and all, given their actions.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

Last edited by Aridas; 17th December 2017 at 08:27 AM.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 08:48 AM   #34
paulhutch
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Blackstone River Valley, MA
Posts: 2,254
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Putting Ajit Pai there was one of the things that I held against Obama.
I don't hold it against Obama because the 2011 opening on the commission by law had to be filled by a republican. Pai was recommended by senate minority leader McConnell to Obama and Pai's career record showed him to be well qualified for the position.
paulhutch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 10:40 AM   #35
Ron_Tomkins
Satan's Helper
 
Ron_Tomkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 42,950
Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
No, but there has to be a definable Congress Person for me to contact; there isn't one for the UK.

However, a Congresswoman has just e-mailed me to say how action is needed to protect net neutrality, which is a bit weird.

Dave
Ah, well, of course. I thought you were talking about non-Americans living in America.
__________________
"I am a collection of water, calcium and organic molecules called Carl Sagan"

Carl Sagan
Ron_Tomkins is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 10:46 AM   #36
Ron_Tomkins
Satan's Helper
 
Ron_Tomkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 42,950
Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
4) Your congress critters don't give a **** about you or what you think and likely wouldn't even read it.
Then contact your state Governor, or Senator, or the state Mayor. There's a lot of people to contact and lots of ways to "make noise", and add up to the mass-voice of disscontempt.
Otherwise, don't complain when these rules go into effect and you end up having to pay more to have a decent connection and access to all your services.
__________________
"I am a collection of water, calcium and organic molecules called Carl Sagan"

Carl Sagan
Ron_Tomkins is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 11:44 AM   #37
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,231
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
One's level of participation in the thread seems odd in that light.

Like Noahfence, I haven't bothered to contact my congressmen, being from Vermont. Aside from being a cheering section, I don't think I need to tell Peter Welch, Pat Leahy, and of course Bernie Sanders, which side to take.
Me not wanting to convert you to my ideas seems like an improvement from everyone else wanting to.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 12:05 PM   #38
sadhatter
Philosopher
 
sadhatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,076
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Me not wanting to convert you to my ideas seems like an improvement from everyone else wanting to.
Seems if your not trying to convince anyone you are going about it in the most labor intensive way possible.

Granted you are succeeding, but if success is leaving no footprints there are easier ways.
sadhatter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 12:10 PM   #39
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 23,048
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Me not wanting to convert you to my ideas seems like an improvement from everyone else wanting to.
I would say it depends on the quality of the ideas. If you believe an idea is a good one and those that disagree are bad, then not wanting to convert others seems like a wasted effort. Why bother? It's just a bumper sticker to give you gloating rights down the road.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2017, 12:14 PM   #40
mgidm86
Illuminator
 
mgidm86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,801
Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Cause I think you should, unless

1) You don't believe that net neutrality is in danger of disappearing

2) You don't believe losing net neutrality affects you at all
I think people have a narrow grasp of what net neutrality actually encompasses. All we talk about is the bandwidth argument. I think you left out just a few possible choices btw

I don't think either solution (NN or not) is particularly good, and rather than take the "well at least we're doing something because something bad that actually hasn't really happened, could happen" route, I'd rather keep the government out as much as possible until an actual good idea is offered, if that can happen.

I don't think that's a strawman either because few people even understand net neutrality at all. They think they are getting what they want and I wonder if that is shortsighted, or flat out wrong.

The ramifications of net neutrality are complicated and I don't understand it all either. The bandwidth argument is just one aspect, but a great bone for the masses to fight over.

Try a search engine and learn both sides of the issue. I can't explain it here because I'm still figuring it out. I don't want to make a case for either side, and that is why my answer is no, I am not going to contact anyone.
__________________
Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:16 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.