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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , Kim Jong-un , US-North Korea relations

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Old 9th March 2018, 12:30 AM   #1
Foolmewunz
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The Trump/Kim Summit - USA v No. Korea - General Discussion

For those of you living under a cabbage leaf, it has been announced that the little blusterer and the big blusterer are going to get together for a summit.

It is to take place, purportedly, sometime in May.

This merits its own thread and might even belong in general politics(of the Non-USA sort) but most of the people following the story probably find their threads in USA Politics. But move it if you must.

> Will the "summit" actually take place?
> Is Kim pulling one of the famous North Korean feints and will hold the talks come away with a billion barrels worth of oil, six million tons of wheat and a new PlayStation, and then go "Ha ha just kidding, we will destroy you!"
> Is Donnie Johnny in the least serious? Or has he been painted into a corner by breaking events in South Korea and is now politically pressured into putting up a good show? Will he scuttle the whole thing.
> Is there a possibility that either or both sides are sincere about this and not just looking for the photo ops?
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Old 9th March 2018, 12:47 AM   #2
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Don't know if it will happen or not but at least it means armed conflict is less likely over the next few months, which has to be a good thing.
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Old 9th March 2018, 01:11 AM   #3
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I don't think Trump has created conflicts just to solve them. Trump and Kim will tighten their tacit alliance to exploit their conflict so any better condition will only be the calm parts of the roller-coaster ride both exploit politically.
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Old 9th March 2018, 01:24 AM   #4
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I would bet China is behind this. What will be the quid pro quo? Tariffs? Nine dash line?
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Old 9th March 2018, 01:28 AM   #5
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Doubt it will happen because both will want guarantees they will "win".
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Old 9th March 2018, 01:46 AM   #6
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Trump and his advisors need to do some reading, particularly in the area of USA-Japan political and economic relations in the period 1937 to 1941.
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Old 9th March 2018, 01:49 AM   #7
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Trump read?????
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Old 9th March 2018, 02:28 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Trump read?????
Smartcooky said "Trump and his advisors". I think he meant: Trump's advisors have to read (etc.), they'll make a summary and hire a graphic artist who depicts the summary in a one-page comic strip.
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Old 9th March 2018, 02:33 AM   #9
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Kim-Jong won't give up the nukes he already has, but he might promise not to make more.
Any actual disarmament would be a big surprise to me.
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Old 9th March 2018, 03:04 AM   #10
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Trump is being played by the North Koreans. They want the prestige, status and validation of being seen as an equal to the US which has been it's main enemy. With nuclear arms at least theoretically threatening continental US, having meetings with an American President will allow them to claim that they brought the Americans to the negotiation table.

If a meeting happens it would be a huge propaganda coup for North Korea.
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Old 9th March 2018, 03:22 AM   #11
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https://twitter.com/ArmsControlWonk/...01314090205184

Quote:
North Korea has been seeking a summit with an American president for more than twenty years. It has literally been a top foreign policy goal of Pyongyang since Kim Jong Il invited Bill Clinton. (1/3)
Quote:
I wonder if Trump's "aides" have explained that to him. Or, if in their toddler-handling, they have led him to believe that this offer is something unusual. Or perhaps he imagines that only he can go Pyongyang. (2/3)
Quote:
This is literally how the North Korean film "The Country I Saw" ends. An American President visits Pyongyang, compelled by North Korea's nuclear and missile programs to treat a Kim as an equal. (3/3)
Quote:
PS: To be clear -- we need to talk to North Korea. But Kim is not inviting Trump so that he can surrender North Korea's weapons. Kim is inviting Trump to demonstrate that his investment in nuclear and missile capabilities has forced the United States to treat him as an equal.
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Old 9th March 2018, 03:24 AM   #12
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https://twitter.com/W7VOA/status/971916749494013952

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“At this point we’re not even talking about negotiations,” just a meeting between the two leaders.
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Old 9th March 2018, 03:26 AM   #13
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Yep, that is the message Trump is sending: if you want the US to deal with you on an equal footing, make the president come to you, threaten the US with WMDs.
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Old 9th March 2018, 03:27 AM   #14
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https://twitter.com/r0wdy_/status/971917043686563840

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Holy Jesus, we're not even going to negotiate anything, just meet?

That's somehow even worse. You don't meet with a regime who feeds newborns to dogs just to chat.
https://twitter.com/bungdan/status/971905012883312640

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US position for 20 years been that no direct talks with N. Korea - ever - until they had verifiably stopped their nuke program. Trump just gave that position away to buy a 24 hour news cycle free of Russia and his porn star mistress. #MAGA!
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Old 9th March 2018, 03:28 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Trump is being played by the North Koreans. They want the prestige, status and validation of being seen as an equal to the US which has been it's main enemy. With nuclear arms at least theoretically threatening continental US, having meetings with an American President will allow them to claim that they brought the Americans to the negotiation table.

If a meeting happens it would be a huge propaganda coup for North Korea.
This.

Kim is under no pressure whatever to do anything but smile and look leaderlike for the Nork cameras. Donny will be edited to look like a bumbling capitalist fool...not a stretch. The footage will be shown globally behind their ace newsreader lady, proclaiming the greatness of Kim and NK in strident tones. Yet again.

Meanwhile Donny will have yet another PR disaster on his hands, having been shown up as the art of the bad deal maker yet again. Hey look! China!! Mexicans! Muslims! Beautiful big wall!
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Old 9th March 2018, 04:01 AM   #16
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The secret weapon of Trump's is a post-it with "I hear you" written in it.
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Old 9th March 2018, 04:11 AM   #17
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Dumpf dumbf trumpf!!!! What is it called when two raving ******** meet???????
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Old 9th March 2018, 04:34 AM   #18
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I'm curious about where this will happen. North Korean leaders are famed for never flying, always traveling on an armored train. Will Lunch Box go to the South? I doubt the DoD or Secret Service would support a meeting at the DMZ. Vladivostok is an option as are a couple of cities in China. Of course the Russians and Chinese would want something to use their territory.

Kim can't go to the South, give up anything to the US and then return. The loser always goes to the victor.
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Old 9th March 2018, 04:51 AM   #19
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Of all the presidents we have had since 1950 who could have met with the leader of North Korea, why this one?
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Old 9th March 2018, 05:02 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Don't know if it will happen or not but at least it means armed conflict is less likely over the next few months, which has to be a good thing.
I'm thinking there has never been an event more likely to trigger a nuclear war than those two malevolent narcissistic toddlers meeting.
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Old 9th March 2018, 05:03 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post

Kim can't go to the South, give up anything to the US and then return. The loser always goes to the victor.
He can if he gets what he wants: denuclearizing Korea and some limited freedom in exchange of both the South and the USA acknowledging the independence of the North, all American troupes deployed in the south to be withdrawn, all economic sanctions to be ended and the South financing the North in a permanent way.
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Old 9th March 2018, 05:06 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
This is exactly what I was thinking. This continues the rewards for bad behaviour that Kim Jong un has been working on the whole time.

I actually thought that Trump may have actually got something right, if by accident, when he was calling Kim Jong un's bluff.

But of course, Trump and his supporters will spin this as making Kim so afraid that he has to beg for talks. Kim will say the same about Trump.

Maybe they both win from a PR point of view, but this has always been part of the North Korean end-game.
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Old 9th March 2018, 05:24 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Smartcooky said "Trump and his advisors". I think he meant: Trump's advisors have to read (etc.), they'll make a summary and hire a graphic artist who depicts the summary in a one-page comic strip.
They also have to put Trump's name in there a lot so he'll pay attention.
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Old 9th March 2018, 05:38 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm thinking there has never been an event more likely to trigger a nuclear war than those two malevolent narcissistic toddlers meeting.
I think that might be unfair to Kim. There is no reason to think of him as a toddler.
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Old 9th March 2018, 05:43 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Trump is being played by the North Koreans. They want the prestige, status and validation of being seen as an equal to the US which has been it's main enemy. With nuclear arms at least theoretically threatening continental US, having meetings with an American President will allow them to claim that they brought the Americans to the negotiation table.

If a meeting happens it would be a huge propaganda coup for North Korea.
But who is that audience? Who cares if they do that?
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Old 9th March 2018, 05:58 AM   #26
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Is it possible that Kim has something on Trump (probably courtesy of Putin)? He might want a face to face so he can blackmail him into easing sanctions and making other concessions in return for sod all.
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:00 AM   #27
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What are the odds this is just trump misspeaking like when he was for a clean DACA bill?
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:05 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
This is exactly what I was thinking. This continues the rewards for bad behaviour that Kim Jong un has been working on the whole time.

I actually thought that Trump may have actually got something right, if by accident, when he was calling Kim Jong un's bluff.

But of course, Trump and his supporters will spin this as making Kim so afraid that he has to beg for talks. Kim will say the same about Trump.

Maybe they both win from a PR point of view, but this has always been part of the North Korean end-game.
Yep - can't believe that Trump fell for this. Oh hang on, yes I can.
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:06 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
What are the odds this is just trump misspeaking like when he was for a clean DACA bill?
Perhaps he heard someone ordering a Korean takeaway?
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:07 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yep - can't believe that Trump fell for this. Oh hang on, yes I can.
But who is this person that matters to north Korea that doesn't deal with Korea now, but will totally change their mind after trump meets them?
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:11 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
But who is this person that matters to north Korea that doesn't deal with Korea now, but will totally change their mind after trump meets them?
Can you try that question again, I can't parse it.
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:11 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
But who is that audience? Who cares if they do that?
Primarily the North Koreans - they are the intended audience of Kim's likely propaganda machine AND the people who care that this is how it spins.

The other people who will spin the matter this way are 45's supporters - they will spin it the opposite way (Kim awed by 45 and finally recognizing that his pissant country has met its match in the power of MAGA agrees to accede to the firm but fair US)
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:13 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Can you try that question again, I can't parse it.
If it is a PR move, who is the public that is the audience for this? Who does Un want to affect?
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:18 AM   #34
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Sorry! Never mind.

The topic that I was going to address has been addressed.
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:19 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If it is a PR move, who is the public that is the audience for this? Who does Un want to affect?
Kim Jong UN
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:20 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
Primarily the North Koreans - they are the intended audience of Kim's likely propaganda machine AND the people who care that this is how it spins.

The other people who will spin the matter this way are 45's supporters - they will spin it the opposite way (Kim awed by 45 and finally recognizing that his pissant country has met its match in the power of MAGA agrees to accede to the firm but fair US)
Doubt it - they will told whatever Kim Jong Un wants them to hear, this meeting is for him, like everything else is in NK.
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:25 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm thinking there has never been an event more likely to trigger a nuclear war than those two malevolent narcissistic toddlers meeting.
I have a vision of them sitting across the table from each other, with their Football briefcases open, playing a real-life game of Nuclear Battleship.
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:28 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Doubt it - they will told whatever Kim Jong Un wants them to hear, this meeting is for him, like everything else is in NK.
Then what are the consequences of agreement to meet and Un getting an ego boost?
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:30 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I have a vision of them sitting across the table from each other, with their Football briefcases open, playing a real-life game of Nuclear Battleship.
Un: O-19.
Trump: BINGO!
Un: [sighs]
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:43 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Then what are the consequences of agreement to meet and Un getting an ego boost?
I have no opinion about that.
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