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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , Kim Jong-un , US-North Korea relations

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Old 21st April 2018, 08:59 PM   #361
Delvo
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
This article contains a picture of what I assume is Kim's 140 kiloton version. But perhaps the picture is misleading? That wouldn't surprise me.
http://www.newsweek.com/north-korea-...weapons-718980
Google's drag-&-drop image search shows that the same image has been used as a stock image for a variety of articles about North Korea on different subjects. Some are years old. Most are just reports on whichever test explosion was the latest one at the time or just general comments that their research is continuing or speculation over whether they'll quit or how soon they'll have a weapon ready or whether one of the tests they've done might have been a fusion bomb (which would contain a fission bomb). The only one that gave a specific yield number in its headline gave a different one from yours. Others aren't even about nukes at all but just missiles (which might be related to the future missiles that could someday carry nukes), so including the image there would mean they're saying it's a missile, not a bomb. A few pages it's used at aren't even about weapons at all but the country's economy, implying that it could be a piece of civilian equipment.

What they all have in common, other than using the same image, that none of them actually identify what it is.

They just dump a picture of Kim and some other NK guys in front of a metal thing with some hoses/wires sticking out of it in their article and let the reader imagine that it might be something that's actually related. The only page I've seen that even speculates about the image's identity at all says it "might be" a "miniaturized" representation of a nuke. (It almost definitely can't be a real one or even a real one minus the radioactive parts, not only because of the size, but also because the environment doesn't look like the kind of place where that kind of work happens; it's too empty and plain, and the display behind them looks more like it's meant for a museum or an industry convention... or a meeting with a politician).
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Old 21st April 2018, 09:47 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Google's drag-&-drop image search shows that the same image has been used as a stock image for a variety of articles about North Korea on different subjects. Some are years old. Most are just reports on whichever test explosion was the latest one at the time or just general comments that their research is continuing or speculation over whether they'll quit or how soon they'll have a weapon ready or whether one of the tests they've done might have been a fusion bomb (which would contain a fission bomb). The only one that gave a specific yield number in its headline gave a different one from yours. Others aren't even about nukes at all but just missiles (which might be related to the future missiles that could someday carry nukes), so including the image there would mean they're saying it's a missile, not a bomb. A few pages it's used at aren't even about weapons at all but the country's economy, implying that it could be a piece of civilian equipment.

What they all have in common, other than using the same image, that none of them actually identify what it is.

They just dump a picture of Kim and some other NK guys in front of a metal thing with some hoses/wires sticking out of it in their article and let the reader imagine that it might be something that's actually related. The only page I've seen that even speculates about the image's identity at all says it "might be" a "miniaturized" representation of a nuke. (It almost definitely can't be a real one or even a real one minus the radioactive parts, not only because of the size, but also because the environment doesn't look like the kind of place where that kind of work happens; it's too empty and plain, and the display behind them looks more like it's meant for a museum or an industry convention... or a meeting with a politician).
Jeez, what a buzzkill!

The looney-right want something, anything!, to get all frothed over as a diversion to Donny's peurile, racist antics and the tightening of the Mueller noose, and you've gone and poured cold water over the biggest "positive" thing they've had for months. Yay! Trump is putting the Norks in their place! 'Murica! **** yeah!

Donny is failing singularly to realise the South Koreans, Chinese and Japanese have been quietly setting him up for the blame when North Korea fails once again to live up to whatever "deal" Donny thought he had forced out of them. And he will rapidly back-pedal and try to blame someone else, anybody else, as long as it isn't him. Meanwhile, it will be the other parties, erstwhile US allies, who will save the day. They know how to play this propaganda game far better than he does.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 02:30 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
No, if it were a democrat in charge NK would be continuing to quietly do what they’ve been doing. We would be leading from behind saying if we’re just nice to them they’ll be nice to us. That is how the wimp girly man mom jeans wearing raised by his mother Obama did it.
Isn't Trump being nice by agreeing to a meeting, that is giving Un what he wants?
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Old 22nd April 2018, 06:21 AM   #364
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Trump speaks on the subject

Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd of Fake News NBC just stated that we have given up so much in our negotiations with North Korea, and they have given up nothing. Wow, we haven’t given up anything & they have agreed to denuclearization (so great for World), site closure, & no more testing!..."

"....We are a long way from conclusion on North Korea, maybe things will work out, and maybe they won’t - only time will tell....But the work I am doing now should have been done a long time ago!"
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Old 22nd April 2018, 06:44 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Google's drag-&-drop image search shows that the same image has been used as a stock image for a variety of articles about North Korea on different subjects. Some are years old. Most are just reports on whichever test explosion was the latest one at the time or just general comments that their research is continuing or speculation over whether they'll quit or how soon they'll have a weapon ready or whether one of the tests they've done might have been a fusion bomb (which would contain a fission bomb). The only one that gave a specific yield number in its headline gave a different one from yours. Others aren't even about nukes at all but just missiles (which might be related to the future missiles that could someday carry nukes), so including the image there would mean they're saying it's a missile, not a bomb. A few pages it's used at aren't even about weapons at all but the country's economy, implying that it could be a piece of civilian equipment.

What they all have in common, other than using the same image, that none of them actually identify what it is.

They just dump a picture of Kim and some other NK guys in front of a metal thing with some hoses/wires sticking out of it in their article and let the reader imagine that it might be something that's actually related. The only page I've seen that even speculates about the image's identity at all says it "might be" a "miniaturized" representation of a nuke. (It almost definitely can't be a real one or even a real one minus the radioactive parts, not only because of the size, but also because the environment doesn't look like the kind of place where that kind of work happens; it's too empty and plain, and the display behind them looks more like it's meant for a museum or an industry convention... or a meeting with a politician).
Okay, never mind then.

Also, the yield of the last test in September varies quite a bit depending on who you ask. South Koreas weather agency says 50-60 kilotons, NORSAR Seismology Center says 120 kilotons, US Intelligence/Air Force Technical Operations Center originally said 140 kilotons but later revised their estimate to 70-280 kilotons, various other estimates fall in between these values.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 07:04 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump speaks on the subject

Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd of Fake News NBC just stated that we have given up so much in our negotiations with North Korea, and they have given up nothing. Wow, we haven’t given up anything & they have agreed to denuclearization (so great for World), site closure, & no more testing!..."

"....We are a long way from conclusion on North Korea, maybe things will work out, and maybe they won’t - only time will tell....But the work I am doing now should have been done a long time ago!"
I didn't take away from the North Korean statement that they'd denuclearize. I believe they said they no long needed to do tests. That sounds more like North Korea claiming their place as a nuclear power.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 08:30 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I didn't take away from the North Korean statement that they'd denuclearize. I believe they said they no long needed to do tests. That sounds more like North Korea claiming their place as a nuclear power.
Correct. They said nothing whatsoever about denuclearizing, just that they were suspending tests while talks were going on. Trump lied, as usual. This is going to get interesting when he doesn't get the desired results.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 08:40 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Correct. They said nothing whatsoever about denuclearizing, just that they were suspending tests while talks were going on. Trump lied, as usual. This is going to get interesting when he doesn't get the desired results.
Probably not a lie, just his usual lack of understanding.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 09:07 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
He certainly did his part in making the NK situation worse. But I’m sure all the historians will say what a great job he did. Most just can’t look at the reality in front of them.
And you do?

Again, it looks that despise of yours for any educated people is showing.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 09:16 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Probably not a lie, just his usual lack of understanding.
Yeah, I suppose. The problems are that A) he is extremely ignorant, B) He's PROUD of being ignorant, and C) just says whatever he thinks makes him look good. At least half the time it just makes him look stupid.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 11:44 AM   #371
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...37292932653056

Quote:
leepy Eyes Chuck Todd of Fake News NBC just stated that we have given up so much in our negotiations with North Korea, and they have given up nothing. Wow, we haven’t given up anything & they have agreed to denuclearization (so great for World), site closure, & no more testing!
Trump thinks North Korea has agreed to give up their nuclear weapons.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 12:18 PM   #372
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He's at the keyboard again.


"Funny how all of the Pundits that couldn’t come close to making a deal on North Korea are now all over the place telling me how to make a deal!"

Does he know what a 'pundit' is?
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Old 22nd April 2018, 06:04 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
And you do?

Again, it looks that despise of yours for any educated people is showing.
Yeah, and they can type too!

It’s pretty easy to see where Trump is driving this. Look at the job the educated Obama did. Look at the job his educated administration did. So instead of crowing about the wonderfully educated people, you might want to concentrate on policy. Because both sides have educated people.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 06:15 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yeah, and they can type too!

It’s pretty easy to see where Trump is driving this. Look at the job the educated Obama did. Look at the job his educated administration did. So instead of crowing about the wonderfully educated people, you might want to concentrate on policy. Because both sides have educated people.
Yes. He, and his administration did remarkably well, despite the vile and partisan attacks against him. Just look at the number of scandals, and investigations against them in comparison with the current administration.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 07:03 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Yes. He, and his administration did remarkably well, despite the vile and partisan attacks against him. Just look at the number of scandals, and investigations against them in comparison with the current administration.
Leftists get these investigations started using our IC. The press dutifully reports and spins it, that allows you to use it. Fascinating!
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Old 22nd April 2018, 07:07 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Leftists get these investigations started using our IC. The press dutifully reports and spins it, that allows you to use it. Fascinating!
Up in the Conservative Treehouse there's only squirrels running loose...and nuts.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 07:37 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Leftists get these investigations started using our IC. The press dutifully reports and spins it, that allows you to use it. Fascinating!
No.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 11:43 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by logger;12267246&
Yeah, and they can type too!

It’s pretty easy to see where Trump is driving this. Look at the job the educated Obama did. Look at the job his educated administration did. So instead of crowing about the wonderfully educated people, you might want to concentrate on policy. Because both sides have educated people.
Oh yeah, you mean to deal with a primitive Kim you need a primitive Trump. We may agree on that. Nothing better than two individual guided by the smell of the opponent's armpits. After all, if you are needing some mauling, nothing better than a bear...

But that deflection doesn't hide your categorical despise for any educated group: "historians are lame and don't know Trump's cabinet from shinola". That is not an opinion ... that is not even Dunning-Kruger ... that is the good o'le à-la-Schopenhauer ressentiment.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 01:58 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yeah, and they can type too!

It’s pretty easy to see where Trump is driving this. Look at the job the educated Obama did. Look at the job his educated administration did. So instead of crowing about the wonderfully educated people, you might want to concentrate on policy. Because both sides have educated people.
What has Trump done so far?

Elevated the Status of North Korea.

They are getting a one to one with Trump because they have Nuclear Weapons. They aren't going to get rid of them.

What can Trump offer other than lifting sanctions?

They are playing him like a fish.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 02:26 AM   #380
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If NK comes around to some version of sanity while Trump is around I'm not going to complain. There are much worse outcomes.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 02:39 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
Oh yeah, you mean to deal with a primitive Kim you need a primitive Trump. We may agree on that. Nothing better than two individual guided by the smell of the opponent's armpits. After all, if you are needing some mauling, nothing better than a bear...
That is so very interesting. You recognizing that leading from behind is disastrous.
Quote:
But that deflection doesn't hide your categorical despise for any educated group: "historians are lame and don't know Trump's cabinet from shinola". That is not an opinion ... that is not even Dunning-Kruger ... that is the good o'le à-la-Schopenhauer ressentiment.
Alec after all these years you still haven’t figured out the group I despise? It starts with an L

I don’t resent educated people at all, I’ve made it in life and I’m very comfortable in my own skin and enjoy being around educated people. You can continue with these personal attacks, it does not matter because it isn’t about me.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 04:12 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yeah, and they can type too!

It’s pretty easy to see where Trump is driving this. Look at the job the educated Obama did. Look at the job his educated administration did. So instead of crowing about the wonderfully educated people, you might want to concentrate on policy. Because both sides have educated people.
That would seem to be saying you think Trump is uneducated?
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Old 23rd April 2018, 04:19 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That would seem to be saying you think Trump is uneducated?
If it quacks ...
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Old 23rd April 2018, 05:34 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That would seem to be saying you think Trump is uneducated?
Of course we both know he is.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 05:53 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I had that for Nixon, and I had voted for him! But even he had more redeeming qualities than Trump. Wasn't trying to enrich himself by being President, for one thing.
Asside from a bit of cheating on his taxes anyway.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 05:55 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
What hurdles? His party controls both the House and the Senate. The only hurdle he has to overcome are his lack of experience in actually setting a legislative agenda, his personality which makes lots of people from his own party not want to work with him and his character, which has causes him to react poorly to criticism and to surround himself with sycophants who are only there to bolster his ego regardless of actual competencies.

What has he accomplished?

He's managed to drag out the NAFTA renewal - and will seemingly get nothing additional out of it.
He's managed to pass an unpopular tax bill.
He's managing to move environmental regulations back, so that his grandchildren will live in a less healthy world.
He's managed to poison relations with many nations by acting like a spoiled child.
He's managed to get a significant portion of his cabinet to resign because they disagree with him.
He's managed to create deeper divides in US society between social classes, races, etc.
He's managed to lie more than any other president about a wide range of topics for no purpose.
He's reduced government income while increasing spending.
He's managed to spend more time golfing in his first year then any of the previous three presidents spent in the 8 years of their terms.
He's managed to create a contempt for legal, social and governmental norms.

Yep, 45's accomplished quite a bit.
This just shows how he really is the perfect republican president
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Old 23rd April 2018, 06:08 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Right. He doesn't need the tests so he's READY TO GO. He just wants to get The PDJT across the table from him ("That Kim Jon Un -- he's a nice guy. I like him.") and then say the Korean equivalent of "You fool..."
Trump just successfully proved north koreas strategy. Iran tried diplomacy and is constantly at risk of getting their non nuclear treaty thrown away on a political whim by Trump, but the strength of Korean nukes forced Trump to the table. This just shows finally and forever that nukes are the way forward for dictators.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 06:31 AM   #388
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Who are you claiming actually thinks that nonsense?
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Old 23rd April 2018, 07:00 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Who are you claiming actually thinks that nonsense?
What nonsense? Without the nukes Trump wouldn't care.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 10:33 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by logger
That is so very interesting. You recognizing that leading from behind is disastrous.
Trump leads from the front, from behind, from the side, standing up, laying down... it wouldn't surprise me he likes to be led too (though it'd take like 10 Cohens to cover up for it).
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Old 23rd April 2018, 09:31 PM   #391
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Quote:
US and North Korean expectations for a summit between Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un appear set on a collision course after the North Korean leader pledged to keep his country’s nuclear arsenal for generations.

Over the weekend, Trump celebrated the North Korean announcement that it would suspend nuclear and intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) testing, closing down its nuclear test site, as a big diplomatic victory.

“Wow, we haven’t given up anything & they have agreed to denuclearization (so great for World), site closure, & no more testing!” the president wrote on Twitter.

...

In the same report on Friday to the Workers Party of Korea in which he declared a halt to nuclear and ICBM testing, Kim Jong-un made clear that such steps were possible because his regime had completed work on building a viable nuclear deterrent.

According to the official account of the party plenary, Kim said that such testing was no longer necessary “given that the work for mounting nuclear warheads on ballistic rockets was finished as the whole processes of developing nuclear weapons were carried out in a scientific way and in regular sequence”.

He said the North Korean arsenal, which called a “powerful treasured sword for defending peace”, was an insurance policy for future generations: “a firm guarantee by which our descendants can enjoy the most dignified and happiest life in the world was provided.”

Kim presented the moratorium on testing as contributions of a “world-level” power towards the global goal of a future free of nuclear weapons.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ear-to-collide

Despite Trump saying that North Korea has "agreed to denucleralization" you'd have to be both incredibly dumb and outrageously gullible to believe that Kim would give up the nuclear weapons he and his predecessors have spent so much effort in getting.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 11:54 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
And with that, Logger's whole Poe act is exposed beyond any doubt. There's no possible way that even a real Trumper could believe Trump has any actual accomplishments, either during this "presidency" or at any time before.
I'd have just said "show me the wall".
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Old 24th April 2018, 02:55 AM   #393
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If Trump achieves having the Chinese-Usaian tariff problem unsolved for years, which is a distinct possibility, then he can keep the fantasy he's achieving the denuclearization of North Korea until he is re-elected in 2020 (in a campaign revolving around rushed executive orders and assorted ukases that will leave the Democrats out of balance and looking as amateurs)

So far, I reckon that's his plan. The only way to avoid it is, for North Korea, flipping the South with a seduction policy; for the Democrats, to smart up, step down the pedestal and remove the sticks that protrude from their lower behinds.
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Old 24th April 2018, 03:43 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Who are you claiming actually thinks that nonsense?
It seems like the logical effect, it certainly will be if(or likely when) Trump sinks the Iran deal. THey gave up several nukes worth of enriched uranium and destroyed their nuclear program for nothing then. And Kim gets the benefits of properly joining the nuclear club.

How is that not a reasonable reading of the events?
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Old 24th April 2018, 05:56 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
If Trump achieves having the Chinese-Usaian tariff problem unsolved for years, which is a distinct possibility, then he can keep the fantasy he's achieving the denuclearization of North Korea until he is re-elected in 2020 (in a campaign revolving around rushed executive orders and assorted ukases that will leave the Democrats out of balance and looking as amateurs)

So far, I reckon that's his plan. The only way to avoid it is, for North Korea, flipping the South with a seduction policy; for the Democrats, to smart up, step down the pedestal and remove the sticks that protrude from their lower behinds.
What about NK accepting denuclearisation?
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Old 24th April 2018, 06:02 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
What about NK accepting denuclearisation?
Why would they?

Their Nukes brought Trump to the table and will get concessions from him.
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Old 24th April 2018, 06:38 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Why would they?

Their Nukes brought Trump to the table and will get concessions from him.
And look at what destroying their nuclear program got Iran when the whole deal might be sunk and after they gave up their weapons grade uranium and most of their uranium stocks.

Clearly negotiating and disarmament is not a long term viable plan. I mean does anyone seriously think Trump will affirm the continuance of the Iran deal? His whole cabinet seems to prefer war.
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Old 24th April 2018, 06:55 AM   #398
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That's it. At the moment America can't be counted on to honour treaties and agreements. Trump will ignore or scrap them on a whim.
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Old 24th April 2018, 07:24 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
That's it. At the moment America can't be counted on to honour treaties and agreements. Trump will ignore or scrap them on a whim.
Plus, Putin needs Trump in the White House like a hog needs slop. To that end, it is completely predictable that Putin is even now seeking to convince Kim to give Trump a Big Win at their summit. Likely already has. It is almost obscene the way Kim is luring Trump to the table like a pole dancing ho.

Putin' argument is simple and compelling. Make a big show of "denuclearizing". Wait until after the 2020 election. Then, with Trump firmly implanted in the White House for another term, Kim can jump out of the closet with his hidden stash of nukes and declare North Korea a permanent member of the nuclear club, with full blackmail privileges. Trump will be a doddering old geriatric with a Putin fixation, and Washington will be vulnerable to a nuclear strike from North Korea.

Putin will be a made man, with his chosen mark in the White House, his nuclear attack dog in North Korea, and the sanctions a thing of the past.

Kim will be forever grateful and loyal to Putin. Like a good attack dog.

Politikers will be tucking tail and sneaking out of Washington.
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Old 24th April 2018, 07:33 AM   #400
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Kim doesn't need Putin to do anything. Trump will give him what he wants anyway.
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