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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , Kim Jong-un , US-North Korea relations

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Old 9th March 2018, 07:10 AM   #41
Pixel42
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Then what are the consequences of agreement to meet and Un getting an ego boost?
Family name: Kim
Given name: Jong-un
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:11 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Family name: Kim
Given name: Jong-un
I didn't call president Clinton "William" either.
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:14 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I didn't call president Clinton "William" either.
Then why are you calling the NK president the equivalent of liam?
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:17 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Then why are you calling the NK president the equivalent of liam?
The same reason I call president Clinton "bill" instead of "William".
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:24 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
Of all the presidents we have had since 1950 who could have met with the leader of North Korea, why this one?
I'm more curious why not any predecessors, if it's true that they've all had the same opportunity. Were they holding out for NK to improve its behavior in some way before they'd even talk to NK?
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:27 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The same reason I call president Clinton "bill" instead of "William".
Then why aren't you calling the current US president Donny? You called him trump less than 2 hours ago.

You know, there's no shame in admitting that you didn't know Koreans put the family name first, and graciously acknowledging the information.
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:34 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Then why aren't you calling the current US president Donny? You called him trump less than 2 hours ago.

You know, there's no shame in admitting that you didn't know Koreans put the family name first, and graciously acknowledging the information.
I do know the order is switched. It is rather apparent from the three generations of Kim's that have ruled north korea. I have no compunction to be proper or accurate on addressing public leaders. I'm only interested in being comprehended.
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:35 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I didn't call president Clinton "William" either.
Darling?
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:41 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I do know the order is switched. It is rather apparent from the three generations of Kim's that have ruled north korea. I have no compunction to be proper or accurate on addressing public leaders. I'm only interested in being comprehended.
Well it took me a moment to work out who you meant by Un despite the subject of the thread, it's not exactly the name by which he's known, so you might like to take that into consideration in future if comprehension really is your goal.
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:42 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Well it took me a moment to work out who you meant by Un despite the subject of the thread, it's not exactly the name by which he's known, so you might like to take that into consideration in future if comprehension really is your goal.
In that case, thank you. I will change it.
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:59 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
This.

Kim is under no pressure whatever to do anything but smile and look leaderlike for the Nork cameras. Donny will be edited to look like a bumbling capitalist fool...not a stretch. The footage will be shown globally behind their ace newsreader lady, proclaiming the greatness of Kim and NK in strident tones. Yet again.
Don't diss that newsreader. She's awesome at what she does.

If she did Trump's press briefings, I bet I'd end up a supporter. So passionate!
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:12 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If it is a PR move, who is the public that is the audience for this? Who does Un want to affect?
I don't doubt that Kim Jong Un is keen to show the Yankee president grovelling in a photo op for all of the North Korean people to see.

One thing we know about North Korea is that its internal (and external) propaganda works overtime. How is video and photographs of Trump and Kim Jong Un meeting not going to be a positive for Kim?
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:15 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I don't doubt that Kim Jong Un is keen to show the Yankee president grovelling in a photo op for all of the North Korean people to see.

One thing we know about North Korea is that its internal (and external) propaganda works overtime. How is video and photographs of Trump and Kim Jong Un meeting not going to be a positive for Kim?
Because it is meaningless. Who has their perception altered by these things?
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:17 AM   #54
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Any possibility that this is the result of President Trump’s planned actions with North Korea and China and that a good outcome may emerge.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:30 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Any possibility that this is the result of President Trump’s planned actions with North Korea and China and that a good outcome may emerge.
Sure there is some possibility, but he doesn't seem to have exhibited this kind of strategic planning and action in any other aspect of his Presidency. Instead he seems to flounder around, changing his position back and forth depending on who he last spoke to until events overtake him.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:32 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Because it is meaningless. Who has their perception altered by these things?
To who/whom?
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:32 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Sure there is some possibility, but he doesn't seem to have exhibited this kind of strategic planning and action in any other aspect of his Presidency. Instead he seems to flounder around, changing his position back and forth depending on who he last spoke to until events overtake him.
I don’t know I have been expecting something like this to happen.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:43 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Because it is meaningless. Who has their perception altered by these things?
Why do you think it is meaningless? Does the North Korean regime run a massive propaganda machine for no reason at all?

Do they not issue statements such as this when former presidents turn up on their shores?
https://web.archive.org/web/20090808...0805-01ee.html

Quote:
Former U.S. President Bill Clinton and his party visited the Democratic People's Republic of Korea from August 4 to 5.
Kim Jong Il, general secretary of the Workers' Party of Korea and chairman of the National Defence Commission of the DPRK, met with Bill Clinton and his party.
During their stay Clinton and his party paid a courtesy call on Kim Yong Nam, president of the Presidium of the Supreme People's Assembly.
Clinton expressed words of sincere apology to Kim Jong Il for the hostile acts committed by the two American journalists against the DPRK after illegally intruding into it. Clinton courteously conveyed to Kim Jong Il an earnest request of the U.S. government to leniently pardon them and send them back home from a humanitarian point of view.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:44 AM   #59
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I don't see this meeting actually happening. Too many opportunities to call it off. We have the joint military exercises scheduled to begin this month, and that always pisses NK off. Apparently NK leader(s) don't fly so it would have to be somewhere near there (doubtful he would take the equivalent of a tramp steamer). The PDJT is not going to go to NK because he won't have control of the situation or an adoring crowd. The DMZ is out because that place is fraught with peril and could not be secured enough.

The only way I see this going through is if Kim promises him a huge parade. He'll be there in a heartbeat.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:48 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Why do you think it is meaningless? Does the North Korean regime run a massive propaganda machine for no reason at all?

Do they not issue statements such as this when former presidents turn up on their shores?
https://web.archive.org/web/20090808...0805-01ee.html
Yes, they do it for no reason at all. Has anybody read a north Korean press release and said, "oh, I see their point."?
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:59 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Yes, they do it for no reason at all. Has anybody read a north Korean press release and said, "oh, I see their point."?
Oh, there external propaganda is atrocious and yes, even then there are supporters across the world. I think there is a particularly soft market for this in South Korea actually. There is a sense of admiration and romanticism for North Korea, the plucky superpower raising its middle digit to the Yankees. Even on this forum there are supporters!

But more to the point the internal propaganda is extremely important. Dictatorships don’t usually if ever survive purely by dint of oppression alone. There needs to be some degree of consent, even if it is passive consent. North Korea has a military first policy that requires much of its population go without in order to strengthen the country’s defenses against a hostile world. What better way to show that the nuclear program was worth it than to have it force the president of the United States to the negotiating table?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:59 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Yes, they do it for no reason at all. Has anybody read a north Korean press release and said, "oh, I see their point."?
It's aimed at the NK people. He doesn't really give a **** what you think.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:03 AM   #63
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It's pretty humiliating for a national leader to have to go meet with a childish megalomaniac.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:05 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Then why aren't you calling the current US president Donny? You called him trump less than 2 hours ago.

You know, there's no shame in admitting that you didn't know Koreans put the family name first, and graciously acknowledging the information.
I hereby decree that BobTheCoward shall henceforth be known as "The".
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:11 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
It's pretty humiliating for a national leader to have to go meet with a childish megalomaniac.
I'm pretty sure Kim Jong-Un will get over that, though.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:14 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
It's pretty humiliating for a national leader to have to go meet with a childish megalomaniac.
I'm sure Kim Jong-un wil get over the humiliation quite quickly Trebuchet

snap
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Last edited by Dabop; 9th March 2018 at 09:15 AM. Reason: snap
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:17 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Doubt it will happen because both will want guarantees they will "win".
Trump always promotes a win-win-win Negotiating tactic.

For Example:

North Korea wins because Un is the hero and wins by opening his country to trade and aid. He becomes the hero that re-unified North and South. Trump frames them as the Switzerland of area.

Region wins by denuclearizing the North.

Trump wins by doing that which no president has been able to do.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:19 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Then why are you calling the NK president the equivalent of liam?
Principles.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:47 AM   #69
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Question

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Oh, there external propaganda is atrocious and yes, even then there are supporters across the world. I think there is a particularly soft market for this in South Korea actually. There is a sense of admiration and romanticism for North Korea, the plucky superpower raising its middle digit to the Yankees. Even on this forum there are supporters!

But more to the point the internal propaganda is extremely important. Dictatorships don’t usually if ever survive purely by dint of oppression alone. There needs to be some degree of consent, even if it is passive consent. North Korea has a military first policy that requires much of its population go without in order to strengthen the country’s defenses against a hostile world. What better way to show that the nuclear program was worth it than to have it force the president of the United States to the negotiating table?
Good answer. That is a great thing to know about south Korea. But why not just fake the photo?
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:48 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Dumpf dumbf trumpf!!!! What is it called when two raving ******** meet???????
A Piers Morgan interview.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:53 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Family name: Kim
Given name: Jong-un
I much prefer Young'un.
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Old 9th March 2018, 10:09 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Yes, they do it for no reason at all. Has anybody read a north Korean press release and said, "oh, I see their point."?
Yes: South Koreans who don't remember the war. There is growing sympathy from them for the North, and little power plays like this feed the feeling that perhaps the North is being bullied.
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Old 9th March 2018, 10:18 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Dabop View Post
I'm sure Kim Jong-un wil get over the humiliation quite quickly Trebuchet

snap
You have correctly interpreted my post.
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Old 9th March 2018, 10:26 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
I'm pretty sure Kim Jong-Un will get over that, though.
Originally Posted by Dabop View Post
I'm sure Kim Jong-un wil get over the humiliation quite quickly Trebuchet

snap
Jokes are much better when the punchline is explained. I imagine Trebuchet thanks you for improving his quip.
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Old 9th March 2018, 10:29 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Jokes are much better when the punchline is explained. I imagine Trebuchet thanks you for improving his quip.
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Old 9th March 2018, 11:01 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Trump always promotes a win-win-win Negotiating tactic.

For Example:

North Korea wins because Un is the hero and wins by opening his country to trade and aid. He becomes the hero that re-unified North and South. Trump frames them as the Switzerland of area.

Region wins by denuclearizing the North.

Trump wins by doing that which no president has been able to do.
Afraid I have to disagree here.

Trump thinks everything is a zero sum game. If someone wins, someone loses. If the meeting does occur, you can bet Trump will say Trump was very successful (and strong) and he got North Korea to make concessions.
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Old 9th March 2018, 11:09 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
Primarily the North Koreans - they are the intended audience of Kim's likely propaganda machine AND the people who care that this is how it spins.

The other people who will spin the matter this way are 45's supporters - they will spin it the opposite way (Kim awed by 45 and finally recognizing that his pissant country has met its match in the power of MAGA agrees to accede to the firm but fair US)
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Then what are the consequences of agreement to meet and Un getting an ego boost?

The other people who would be a target for this are any potential customers for NK nuclear and/or missile technology. There's been speculation that NK is interested in selling this tech to other "rogue" elements, and having the President of the US come grovelling to NK demonstrates exactly how valuable being a nuclear power can be. After 20 years of trying to get this result, they got it within a year of demonstrating an ability to nuke Hawaii and the US west coast.

How hard would it be to make that spin stick?
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Old 9th March 2018, 11:24 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
You have correctly interpreted my post.
Was there another way to interpret it?
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Old 9th March 2018, 11:26 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Trump always promotes a win-win-win Negotiating tactic.

For Example:

North Korea wins because Un is the hero and wins by opening his country to trade and aid. He becomes the hero that re-unified North and South. Trump frames them as the Switzerland of area.

Region wins by denuclearizing the North.

Trump wins by doing that which no president has been able to do.
... and then, you woke up.
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Old 9th March 2018, 11:28 AM   #80
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Trump to Kim Jong-un:

"You should change your name to Long-un. That'd be funny ..."

End meeting.
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