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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , Kim Jong-un , US-North Korea relations

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Old 10th March 2018, 02:27 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
That was the previous Kim, as I recall, and it was three in his first ever round of golf.
My very first hole on a golf course was a birdie, one under par-3. I should have stopped playing golf right there! Foolishly, I played one more hole, which was 13 over par
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Old 10th March 2018, 02:35 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
The grown-ups have intervened, but that may not be the end of it. The prospect of an "historic" meeting may be enough to persuade Trump to carry through.

Of course, it would only be a meeting, not a negotiation. There'd be no "walk in the woods" - those are too thoroughly mined in the DMZ, apart from anything else.
Yeah, but if nobody tells Trump that...
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Old 10th March 2018, 02:36 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
My very first hole on a golf course was a birdie, one under par-3. I should have stopped playing golf right there! Foolishly, I played one more hole, which was 13 over par
I donít think crazy golf counts.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 10th March 2018, 04:26 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I think the extent of Trump's "victory" has now been seen and is done. He thinks he won because he got Rocket Man to agree to a meeting. He got Mueller off of page one for a couple of days and can brag to his next rally about what a manly man he is.

Someone pointed out to him that Rocket Man, Rocket Man's Daddy and Rocket Man's Grand Daddy have been pushing for meetings with US presidents since Grover Cleveland. Everyone's always said, in no uncertain terms, "No!"

Now that L'il Kim's got nukes, of a sudden the POTUS is going to meet with him? Who looks stronger and who looks weaker?

There is no scenario of L'il Kim leaving North Korea/China for a meeting. Even China might be a risk. The Kims don't travel on planes but more important is they don't stray from home. The chances of a coup back home are far greater than the chances of him being assassinated in the DMZ or Seoul or Beijing. And if Kim won't leave the country, that leaves the POTUS (a.k.a. "the mountain") who will have to go to Muhammad. Ain't gonna happen.
I think it shows how inexperienced he and his team are and how they don't recognise that and do not speak to people with more knowledge before making decisions.

Probably what happened was Trump was told Jong Un would have a meeting, in Trump's mind that would demonstrate how awesome Trump was because he had done something no one else had ever done! On to Twitter to let people know!!

Then someone from the State department turns up:

"Er... Mr Trump he has said he will talk with all your predecessors... ...(an aide pulls him aside whispers in his ear).. sorry all the past big boys that weren't as great as you are. You going there has the chance to destabilize the region and cause multiple problems with our allies and non-allies in the region. (aide quickly marches the state department bod out of the office)"

Kelly steps in "Let me explain sir. Jong Un will get more headlines than you will out of the meeting."
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Old 10th March 2018, 04:31 AM   #125
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I can't read the article, because I'm not a subscriber, but it seems that the Washington Street Journal is reporting that trump interrupted the South Korean officials who were briefing him about Kim's offer in order to accept it So, if that's true, then not only didn't he consult with anybody else before making the decision, he didn't even wait until he'd got all the information about it.
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Old 10th March 2018, 04:35 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I can't read the article, because I'm not a subscriber, but it seems that the Washington Street Journal is reporting that trump interrupted the South Korean officials who were briefing him about Kim's offer in order to accept it So, if that's true, then not only didn't he consult with anybody else before making the decision, he didn't even wait until he'd got all the information about it.
Well the blame for that has to be laid at the feet of the South Koreans, it's not Trump's fault they went over his 5 minutes attention span!
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Old 10th March 2018, 05:27 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Try this link, it works for me.
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Old 10th March 2018, 06:20 AM   #128
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If this happens it will only be a win for Lunchbox unless it happens in a neutral third country and it won't. This will be Kim summoning the US president to the Korean Peninsula to acknowledge that the DPRK is a nuclear power. The loser goes to the victor. There's a reason why most US Soviet summits were in third countries or reciprocal visits. If The Hair goes to Korea he's lost the moment he gets off the plane.
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Old 10th March 2018, 06:48 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I can't read the article, because I'm not a subscriber, but it seems that the Washington Street Journal is reporting that trump interrupted the South Korean officials who were briefing him about Kim's offer in order to accept it So, if that's true, then not only didn't he consult with anybody else before making the decision, he didn't even wait until he'd got all the information about it.
It would appear from the outside that Trumpy got all excited about doing the thing no one else has done. In his magical world he's always saving the day. He was so excited he had to go tell someone so he stuck his head in the press room like a little kid blurting out what Dad's birthday present was that was supposed to have been a secret.

Tillerson gave a message about 'hold on there, not so fast' a day ago then in his next press conference he walked it back and said something akin to 'I guess the meeting will happen. Suckabee using Kelly's talking points gave the cautious tale and probably got chewed out for the second time.

Talk of all the top staff getting ready to leave leaked out.
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Old 10th March 2018, 06:50 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
If this happens it will only be a win for Lunchbox unless it happens in a neutral third country and it won't. This will be Kim summoning the US president to the Korean Peninsula to acknowledge that the DPRK is a nuclear power. The loser goes to the victor. There's a reason why most US Soviet summits were in third countries or reciprocal visits. If The Hair goes to Korea he's lost the moment he gets off the plane.
Does anyone here care about what it says about these people based on what ground it takes place? I don't mean care because some other group might care. Do you actually care yourself?
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Old 10th March 2018, 07:51 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Does anyone here care about what it says about these people based on what ground it takes place? I don't mean care because some other group might care. Do you actually care yourself?
There's a larger audience here, like China, Russia, and every other country in a dispute with the US.
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Old 10th March 2018, 08:00 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
There's a larger audience here, like China, Russia, and every other country in a dispute with the US.
And I specifically asked ignoring them.
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Old 10th March 2018, 08:24 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I hereby decree that BobTheCoward shall henceforth be known as "The".
So from now on it's "Don't The the Thread"?
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Old 10th March 2018, 08:30 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I don't see this meeting actually happening. Too many opportunities to call it off. We have the joint military exercises scheduled to begin this month, and that always pisses NK off. Apparently NK leader(s) don't fly so it would have to be somewhere near there (doubtful he would take the equivalent of a tramp steamer). The PDJT is not going to go to NK because he won't have control of the situation or an adoring crowd. The DMZ is out because that place is fraught with peril and could not be secured enough.

The only way I see this going through is if Kim promises him a huge parade. He'll be there in a heartbeat.
What if Kim promises to invest a billion or so in 666 5th Avenue?
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Old 10th March 2018, 08:31 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It would appear from the outside that Trumpy got all excited about doing the thing no one else has done. In his magical world he's always saving the day. He was so excited he had to go tell someone so he stuck his head in the press room like a little kid blurting out what Dad's birthday present was that was supposed to have been a secret.

Tillerson gave a message about 'hold on there, not so fast' a day ago then in his next press conference he walked it back and said something akin to 'I guess the meeting will happen. Suckabee using Kelly's talking points gave the cautious tale and probably got chewed out for the second time.

Talk of all the top staff getting ready to leave leaked out.
Can you imagine the stupid, farm league morons who will end up on the staff now? He's going to be stuck with only the worst failed genetic experiments and products of incest to work in his administration. He'll be nostalgic for the days when all he had to worry about were wife beaters and security clearances.
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Old 10th March 2018, 08:46 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Yeah that's the book that is going to bring the impeachment at any minute. Plus the author said that Trump is having an affair right now ...
He reported hearing allegations from people in the White House, not that it's true.
Quote:
... and the chick is mentioned in the final chapter of the book.
So what's her name?

Quote:
The problem with that is that he isn't having any affair right now.

The thing that everyone remembers about that book is that they forgot about that book.
It seems what you remember from the book isn't actually so.
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Old 10th March 2018, 08:51 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
And I specifically asked ignoring them.
It doesn't matter, how you see it. You have no pending dispute with the US that might be negotiated in front of the world.
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Old 10th March 2018, 08:56 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I think the extent of Trump's "victory" has now been seen and is done. He thinks he won because he got Rocket Man to agree to a meeting. He got Mueller off of page one for a couple of days and can brag to his next rally about what a manly man he is.

Someone pointed out to him that Rocket Man, Rocket Man's Daddy and Rocket Man's Grand Daddy have been pushing for meetings with US presidents since Grover Cleveland. Everyone's always said, in no uncertain terms, "No!"

Now that L'il Kim's got nukes, of a sudden the POTUS is going to meet with him? Who looks stronger and who looks weaker?
It does tend to confirm that having nukes makes a nation (and, by extension, its leader) more significant.
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Old 10th March 2018, 09:02 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
Some third or fourth of the posters in this thread are blinded by their two-bit chauvinism, talking as if Trump is the man and have won a duel. That is unrealistic and infantile.

Nothing is gonna come out from the negotiation but the certainty for South Korea that the USA is not willing to abandon their position of world gendarme. Achieving South Korea and the USA to grow apart is probably Kim's main goal.
And China's.

I think the likely upshot will be that China guarantees the territorial integrity of South and North Korea and the US becomes an irrelevance.
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Old 10th March 2018, 09:04 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
There is no scenario of L'il Kim leaving North Korea/China for a meeting. Even China might be a risk. The Kims don't travel on planes but more important is they don't stray from home. The chances of a coup back home are far greater than the chances of him being assassinated in the DMZ or Seoul or Beijing. And if Kim won't leave the country, that leaves the POTUS (a.k.a. "the mountain") who will have to go to Muhammad. Ain't gonna happen.
I certainly agree with the rest you have written about how if there is a meeting between Trump and KJU that it is KJU who will have been most successful.

I would add a couple of other things, however, and that is the possibility that if such a meeting were to take place, at least one other potential location would actually be Russia where Kim Jong-il traveled a couple of times, and we know that Trump has nothing but good things to say about the president of Russia. Hopefully a visit to handgrenade factory where Kim Jong-un can smoke as many of his cancer sticks as he likes.

The other point is we don't really know how likely a coup attempt would be if Kim went abroad. Pyongyang watchers tend to be split on how much division they believe is going on in the inner sanctum. Some of them think there is a division of "hawks and doves" and that the key to success in dealing with North Korea is to support the doves with conciliatory talk and maybe trade deals, and that a hardline only bolsters the hawks. Other Pyongyang watchers believe that the former Pyongyang watchers are just dupes of the DPRK's deliberate good cop-bad cop routine and that the reality is North Korea are skilfull manipulators, particularly of the vain. In that sense, Trump must be a dream come true for them. The type of leader whose resolve is shaky against those who know he can be sweet-talked.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 10th March 2018, 09:06 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It would appear from the outside that Trumpy got all excited about doing the thing no one else has done. In his magical world he's always saving the day. He was so excited he had to go tell someone so he stuck his head in the press room like a little kid blurting out what Dad's birthday present was that was supposed to have been a secret.
Sad.
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Old 10th March 2018, 09:10 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss View Post
What if Kim promises to invest a billion or so in 666 5th Avenue?
You've clearly read The Art of the Deal to good effect.
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Old 10th March 2018, 09:12 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
It doesn't matter, how you see it. You have no pending dispute with the US that might be negotiated in front of the world.
I didn't say it mattered.
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Old 10th March 2018, 09:56 AM   #144
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There will conditions! Trump can’t go to N Korea unless they somehow get his Twitter working by satelllite phone. He will want to post selfies with Kim.
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Old 10th March 2018, 10:07 AM   #145
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What if Kim challenges him to a thumb war?
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Old 10th March 2018, 10:25 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
What if Kim challenges him to a thumb war?
That would probably work out better than a "sword fight".
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Old 10th March 2018, 10:54 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger
Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss View Post
What if Kim promises to invest a billion or so in 666 5th Avenue?
You've clearly read The Art of the Deal to good effect.
Will Jared be going too?
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Old 10th March 2018, 11:08 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
Will Jared be going too?
No. Men always go to Jared.
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Old 10th March 2018, 11:28 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I didn't say it mattered.
Oh, I forgot that you go out of your way to make sure everyone knows you never mean anything, commit to anything or generally add value to to any conversation.
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Old 10th March 2018, 12:14 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
It does tend to confirm that having nukes makes a nation (and, by extension, its leader) more significant.
But not like steel. Steel is what makes a nation. Nukes make it better.
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Old 10th March 2018, 12:48 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Oh, I forgot that you go out of your way to make sure everyone knows you never mean anything, commit to anything or generally add value to to any conversation.
Cool. Now that we got that out of the way, is your perception, not based on your perception of how others may perceive it, affected by the location of the meeting?
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Old 10th March 2018, 01:36 PM   #152
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Quote:
foolmewunz
Someone pointed out to him that Rocket Man, Rocket Man's Daddy and Rocket Man's Grand Daddy have been pushing for meetings with US presidents since Grover Cleveland. Everyone's always said, in no uncertain terms, "No!"
Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
It does tend to confirm that having nukes makes a nation (and, by extension, its leader) more significant.
And now they have nukes, that's what inattention has given the world. There it is in black and white - "having nukes makes a nation more significant"

North Korea is now significant and that's hardly due to any action or inaction taken by Trump.
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Old 10th March 2018, 02:23 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
And now they have nukes, that's what inattention has given the world. There it is in black and white - "having nukes makes a nation more significant"


But that's been true for decades now. Why else is Pakistan handled with kid gloves, while Afghanistan and Iraq were invaded?
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Old 10th March 2018, 02:52 PM   #154
Civet
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
Some third or fourth of the posters in this thread are blinded by their two-bit chauvinism, talking as if Trump is the man and have won a duel. That is unrealistic and infantile.

Nothing is gonna come out from the negotiation but the certainty for South Korea that the USA is not willing to abandon their position of world gendarme. Achieving South Korea and the USA to grow apart is probably Kim's main goal.
Trump's entire existence is unrealistic and infantile. He's the Mary Sue in an alt-right fanfiction come to life. I just want him to at least try to use his powers for good this once.
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Old 10th March 2018, 02:57 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
North Korea is now significant and that's hardly due to any action or inaction taken by Trump.
Sure it is. Trump is making North Korea a lot more 'significant' than it should be.

Originally Posted by CapelDodger
It does tend to confirm that having nukes makes a nation (and, by extension, its leader) more significant.
You don't need actual nukes for that. Saddam didn't have any, yet nukes made him more 'significant'.
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Old 10th March 2018, 07:34 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Cool. Now that we got that out of the way, is your perception, not based on your perception of how others may perceive it, affected by the location of the meeting?
Why is that even a question? How can you not see the difficulty of an American president being summoned to the Peninsula. In your screwed up Libertarian world, how is this not perfectly obvious?
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Old 10th March 2018, 08:10 PM   #157
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Why is that even a question? How can you not see the difficulty of an American president being summoned to the Peninsula. In your screwed up Libertarian world, how is this not perfectly obvious?
Of course. That isn't why I'm asking. When things like this come up. Everyone's opinion here is often based on what others would think.

Group A are the people whose primary reaction is to judge the events ("Kim is an equal"). Group B doesn't have a primary reaction but have a secondary reaction ("this is a bad idea") based on the impact of Group A's primary reaction ("people in that group thinking Kim is an equal is bad for relations").


I have a bunch of questions for and about people in group A.
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Old 10th March 2018, 08:45 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
How can you not see the difficulty of an American president being summoned to the Peninsula
Presidents routinely travel to lots of other countries. Other countries' leaders routinely travel to the USA and to each other's countries. Why does that become "getting summoned" in this case?
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Old 10th March 2018, 09:17 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Can you imagine the stupid, farm league morons who will end up on the staff now? He's going to be stuck with only the worst failed genetic experiments and products of incest to work in his administration. He'll be nostalgic for the days when all he had to worry about were wife beaters and security clearances.
The guy's mentally ill. People around him start out in denial, it couldn't be so. He'll start acting presidential, surely, any day now.

One by one the adults in the room give up.

The news media knows he won't be acting presidential but they keep thinking he will, like Lucy pulling the football away year after year and Charlie Brown keeps thinking this time she won't. Listen to the pundits, saying things like, "maybe he can pull it off." They haven't learned a thing because they don't understand the personality disorder Trump has.

Bet you Trump calls Dennis Rodman for advice.
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Old 10th March 2018, 11:42 PM   #160
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I hope he has some good note cards for this one.
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