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Tags protest incidents , protest issues , sports incidents

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Old 24th May 2018, 05:15 AM   #41
Regnad Kcin
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
This issue is not peculiar patriotism or conservatives. The left has been trying to compel speech on a whole host of issues.
A whole host, you say? Such as?
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:26 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
A whole host, you say? Such as?
Racism.
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:47 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
According to the new rules the players are not required to stand for the anthem. They may remain off the field during the anthem, but, if they choose to be on the field they are required to stand. There is no forced patriotic statement.


Anyone want to take bets on how many games they'll play before someone with a swastika neck tattoo starts whining about how staying in the locker room is "disrespecting the flag"?
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:52 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Right now forcing them to stand for the anthem is forcing them to agree with the political proposition that America has no racism, has no problems, and is without faults.
What nonsense.

It's not that I agree with the NFL's decision, but what you wrote above is just silliness. Standing for the anthem is not an expression that the nation is flawless.
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:55 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
What nonsense.

It's not that I agree with the NFL's decision, but what you wrote above is just silliness. Standing for the anthem is not an expression that the nation is flawless.
In this context it is about refusing to acknowledge flaws.
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:59 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
What nonsense.

It's not that I agree with the NFL's decision, but what you wrote above is just silliness. Standing for the anthem is not an expression that the nation is flawless.
When they are trying to protest those flaws by not standing for the anthem, forcing them to stand for the anthem is akin to forcing them to ignore said flaws.

That said, the NFL can do whatever they want. I hope the players care enough to press the issue and go on strike.
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:59 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
In this context it is about refusing to acknowledge flaws.
No, it is rather about whether the pre-game anthem is the appropriate forum for players to protest police violence.

As I said, I think the kneeling protests were respectful and reasonable. But the league thinks otherwise. It does not entail that the league denies police violence is a problem, but simply that this is not the time and place for political protests..
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:17 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
No, it is rather about whether the pre-game anthem is the appropriate forum for players to protest police violence.

As I said, I think the kneeling protests were respectful and reasonable. But the league thinks otherwise. It does not entail that the league denies police violence is a problem, but simply that this is not the time and place for political protests..
It is denying a problem. They are declaring it isn't significant enough to turn it into the time and place for it.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:20 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
No, it is rather about whether the pre-game anthem is the appropriate forum for players to protest police violence.

As I said, I think the kneeling protests were respectful and reasonable. But the league thinks otherwise. It does not entail that the league denies police violence is a problem, but simply that this is not the time and place for political protests..
One of the first things that African-Americans learn when they begin to fight for civil rights is that there is never an appropriate time and place for protests...
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:21 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Doesn’t look like we’ll ever get rid of people who love this country. It’d be so much easier if the people who don’t even like it would just leave.
Because there are different levels. Me not leaving is like a two star review. To get me to stand for a national anthem we are talking three stars.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:22 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
So the NFL is going to start punishing players and teams that don't partake in mandatory political messaging before games. On social media conservatives are hailing the decision with comments that seem to best be summarized as "Yes, make them stand!"

"Make them stand?"

What is the point when the key action in that sentence is the word "make"? As in, take away choice.

All through the NFL protest blowup I never was able to figure out why conservatives want forced patriotism. Is it proper to even still call it "patriotism" at that point. After all we don't call rape "forced sex" because we understand that the "forced" part makes it not even a form of sex at all. Similarly shouldn't there be a new term for when someone stands for the anthem but not because they think America is without fault but because they face punishment if they do not.

And, more to the point, why do so many people love the idea of forced patriotism? Is it a power trip? A way to force someone else to do something you want not what they want?
Ummm, ...

The players are not actually being forced to stand.

They are provided with an option to stay in the locker room during the playing of the anthem where they can sit, stand, lay down, make out with their hookers, etc.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:26 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Ummm, ...

The players are not actually being forced to stand.

They are provided with an option to stay in the locker room during the playing of the anthem where they can sit, stand, lay down, make out with their hookers, etc.
A pthy, 3 word term for that would be nice.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:43 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Ummm, ...

The players are not actually being forced to stand.

They are provided with an option to stay in the locker room during the playing of the anthem where they can sit, stand, lay down, make out with their hookers, etc.
Thus they are denied their venue to protest. No-platforming is only wrong when Nazis are the one's suffering from it?
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:43 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
And said employees have the right to vote with their feet.

One of my LEO buddies and I had a running joke. If the event either one of us was forced to get into uniform and stand up behind the Mayor/CLEO/Whoever so they could make a pitch for gun control we'd make like Jeremiah Denton and eye blink out Morse code TORTURE.

In short, you don't have to agree, you just have to go through the motions. It makes ******** happy and bores hell out of the rest of us.
Or you could have the balls to refuse to go through the motions, on principle, and tell the ******** to go **** themselves.

I hope the players elect to take the field and then kneel just to spite them.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:46 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Thus they are denied their venue to protest. No-platforming is only wrong when Nazis are the one's suffering from it?
With the vast amounts of money that those players are paid, if they really want to protest things, then they can definitely find all sorts of way to do so.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:49 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
No, it is rather about whether the pre-game anthem is the appropriate forum for players to protest police violence.

As I said, I think the kneeling protests were respectful and reasonable. But the league thinks otherwise. It does not entail that the league denies police violence is a problem, but simply that this is not the time and place for political protests..
And of course as they were being sent out their as a marketing stunt for the military anyway, as opposed to in the past when the players were not on the field and so clearly hated america.

But those players owners are being well paid to shill for the military and they will do what they are told.

After all there is nothing more disrespectful than kneeling.
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:01 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
With the vast amounts of money that those players are paid, if they really want to protest things, then they can definitely find all sorts of way to do so.
They chose to do it this way. Why don't you think the NFL should let them? I mean, obviously the protest was rather effective.
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:05 AM   #58
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I wonder what's changed since this was taken...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg hilarious-protest-signs-descent.jpg (82.7 KB, 18 views)
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:17 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
With the vast amounts of money that those players are paid, if they really want to protest things, then they can definitely find all sorts of way to do so.
Yeah, they need to find a way to protest that doesn't actually make waves and is easier to ignore.
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:23 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
A whole host, you say? Such as?
Gender pronouns is a recent one. But basically the entire concept of political correctness is about policing speech.
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:27 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Yeah, they need to find a way to protest that doesn't actually make waves and is easier to ignore.
Oh, but kneeling at the start of a football game is VERY easy to ignore. Almost nobody is required to watch a football game. The NFL is trying to squash these protests precisely because of that fact.
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:57 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
They chose to do it this way. Why don't you think the NFL should let them? I mean, obviously the protest was rather effective.
Well, ...

I expect that if the NFL can be used by the players to make political protests, then the NFL will soon be expected to let the players make all sorts of other protests as well. And since the NFL makes it money from football games, as opposed to player protests, then I m sure that the NFL executives would prefer that the players do the job that they are paid to do instead of distract things from what they are being paid to do.

As for the protests being effective, I really do not think that is the case.

But in any event, if these players really want to protest things, then they are quite at liberty to do so.
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:58 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
One of the first things that African-Americans learn when they begin to fight for civil rights is that there is never an appropriate time and place for protests...
Hell, half of the folks that are bent out of shape think there's no appropriate time and place for us to exist outside.

Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
With the vast amounts of money that those players are paid, if they really want to protest things, then they can definitely find all sorts of way to do so.
You'll be happy to know that players like Kaepernick also (famously) donate time and money to various charities, anti-police violence protests, mentorship programs, and the like as well.

Dolt 45, meanwhile, seems to be in favor of police violence based on skin color, and the NFL can't even seem to get upset about players who beat and rape women, chronic issue due to concussions, mascots and names that utilize Native American stereotypes, and the like.

Although I don't know why you're apparently unaware of this...
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:01 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Yeah, they need to find a way to protest that doesn't actually make waves and is easier to ignore.
I would say that briefly being a ham on national TV is very easy to ignore and the waves that are produced by such hams are of no real consequence.
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:03 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Well, ...

I expect that if the NFL can be used by the players to make political protests, then the NFL will soon be expected to let the players make all sorts of other protests as well. And since the NFL makes it money from football games, as opposed to player protests, then I m sure that the NFL executives would prefer that the players do the job that they are paid to do instead of distract things from what they are being paid to do.

As for the protests being effective, I really do not think that is the case.

But in any event, if these players really want to protest things, then they are quite at liberty to do so.
The NFL makes its money from football games. Those executives chose to start making political statements by playing the national anthem. They wanted to make money, engage in political speech, then got upset when people didn't feel compelled to engage in their speech. They are still trying to have their speech in the guise of it not being about speech.
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:15 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Gender pronouns is a recent one. But basically the entire concept of political correctness is about policing speech.
Its ok you can still call someone a ******. That is protected first amendment speech.
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:20 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by rustypouch View Post
I wonder what's changed since this was taken...
Someone learned how to spell ?

The descenters (sic) got too much melanin ?
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:21 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Doesn’t look like we’ll ever get rid of people who love this country. It’d be so much easier if the people who don’t even like it would just leave.
"My country, right or wrong. If right, may she be kept right. If wrong, may she be put right..."

They are just as much citizens as you are, more so, actually, because they respect the rights of others whereas you would deny them.

Trump went one step further in his remarks and suggested anyone not just standing, but proudly standing, should be deported.

We were warned about this by the Germans back in 2016. This is what fascism looks like.
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:23 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
... snipped for relevance ...

You'll be happy to know that players like Kaepernick also (famously) donate time and money to various charities, anti-police violence protests, mentorship programs, and the like as well.
Thanks much. I was not aware of that and I am glad that at least one of these players is actually doing something productive about the problem.

Quote:
Dolt 45, meanwhile, seems to be in favor of police violence based on skin color, and the NFL can't even seem to get upset about players who beat and rape women, chronic issue due to concussions, mascots and names that utilize Native American stereotypes, and the like.

Although I don't know why you're apparently unaware of this...
Well I can assure you that I am quite aware of the problems that Trump has been causing.

If you would kindly care to just look at a few of my postings about Trump, then you will see for yourself that I am quite aware of the problems that Trump has been causing.
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:23 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Myles View Post
When I went to see a movie at a local theatre, no anthem was played, but if I went to one on a military base, there was.

A nation is not always to be proud about. Why is it necessary to wave a flag at a sports event?
Because the military pays for those elaborate pre-game shows.
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:29 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Well, ...

I expect that if the NFL can be used by the players to make political protests, then the NFL will soon be expected to let the players make all sorts of other protests as well. And since the NFL makes it money from football games, as opposed to player protests, then I m sure that the NFL executives would prefer that the players do the job that they are paid to do instead of distract things from what they are being paid to do.

As for the protests being effective, I really do not think that is the case.

But in any event, if these players really want to protest things, then they are quite at liberty to do so.
Another way to do it would be to stop playing the national anthem? Or is that compulsory at football games?
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:33 AM   #72
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The novel "It Can't Happen Here" reads a hell of a lot like an almanac these days.
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:35 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post

The US War or Independence could be viewed as a group of enlightened individuals throwing off the yoke of monarchist oppression, or it could be viewed as a group of agitators wanting to seize power from TPTB. This move certainly runs counter to the first but is IMO fairly and squarely the latter.
Option 3: It was about a group of domestic elitists who objected to a "foreign" group of elitists being in charge when THEY wanted to be in charge.

Never forget that under the Founders' vision for America:
  • slavery was legal
  • only men could vote
  • only property owning men could vote
  • primogeniture was legal
  • married women were treated as if property of their husbands
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:42 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
... then I m sure that the NFL executives would prefer that the players do the job that they are paid to do instead of distract things from what they are being paid to do.


Are any of them "not doing the job they are being paid to do"? That job being to play football.


When you get someone who won't throw a pass to protest puppy mills, or stops just short of the goal line to raise awareness of the plight of the tree salamanders, then you can complain about them not doing their job.
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:46 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
One of the first things that African-Americans learn when they begin to fight for civil rights is that there is never an appropriate time and place for protests...
As I've said, I think the NFL made a poor decision.

But Travis made a stupid argument, even though I agree with his main conclusion.

As far as your point, I don't see that I've disagreed.
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:50 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by rustypouch View Post
I wonder what's changed since this was taken...
The GOP gained control.
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:51 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Are any of them "not doing the job they are being paid to do"? That job being to play football.


When you get someone who won't throw a pass to protest puppy mills, or stops just short of the goal line to raise awareness of the plight of the tree salamanders, then you can complain about them not doing their job.
Well I doubt that it is really that simple since it is expected that the players are also being paid to represent the NFL when they are playing one of the NFL games.

Therefore, if the players are using their NFL sponsored screen time to make their their protests visible, then it can appear as if it is the NFL itself that is making the protest.
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:52 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Doesn't this fall under a breach of the 1st amendment? Or does the fact that it is a private organisation imposing this completely negate the 1st?
The second, pretty much. As interpreted by the courts, the 1st amendment prohibits the government from imposing restrictions on speech, but it does not prohibit an employer from doing so.

OTOH, NFL players are a small group of people with unusual abilities and a fairly strong union, which the NFL chose not to consult before making this rule. If the players rebel, it could get interesting.
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:53 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Another way to do it would be to stop playing the national anthem? Or is that compulsory at football games?
That is a good point.

Playing the national anthem before a football game, a baseball game, a car race, etc. is not compulsory. At least not in the USA.
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Old 24th May 2018, 09:04 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
The second, pretty much. As interpreted by the courts, the 1st amendment prohibits the government from imposing restrictions on speech, but it does not prohibit an employer from doing so.

OTOH, NFL players are a small group of people with unusual abilities and a fairly strong union, which the NFL chose not to consult before making this rule. If the players rebel, it could get interesting.
You've never compared an NFL contract to an NBA or MLB contract, have you. The NFLPA is quite weak.

That being said, the last NFL CBA (collective bargaining agreement) did not require standing. My recollection from when this was blowing up is that it said that players "should" stand during the anthem. They may have a hard time handing out fines for breaking a rule that isn't covered but the CBA.
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