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Tags protest incidents , protest issues , sports incidents

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Old 24th May 2018, 08:08 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post

We should just vote on it because sadly it would pass by a large margin with agreement on both sides. (Ironically splitting up being one of the only things both sides would agree on...) The red states would love to be their own country, and the blue states would be happy to be rid of them.
Totally agree, I certainly donít want to be ruled by leftists. As far as the NFL, itís a business decision.
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:39 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by rustypouch View Post
I wonder what's changed since this was taken...
Hopefully, the vocabulary skills of the protestors, at the least.
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Old 24th May 2018, 09:04 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
How are you counting conservatives?

I hope you are joking because it is pretty damn easy.
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Old 24th May 2018, 09:12 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Totally agree, I certainly donít want to be ruled by leftists. As far as the NFL, itís a business decision.
If it were a business decision, the owners would not be putting in their political speech at the start of the game.
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Old 24th May 2018, 09:20 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
I hope you are joking because it is pretty damn easy.
Which posters are you counting?

And, of course, my other point was that conservatives on this site are not representative of conservatives in the wild. But, go ahead. There are some posters in this thread that I think are conservative, some I think are liberal and many which just haven't made a clear impression on me.

For instance, Crossbow is arguing in favor of the NFL's right to restrict protests, if I read him correctly. He's never struck me as a conservative before, nor a liberal. I don't have any particular memory of his political stance aside from this thread (sorry, Crossbow!). And, of course, his stance on this issue doesn't make him conservative or liberal, since different folk can have different reactions. (I agree, for instance, that the NFL has every right to make this decision, but I tend to think it is a poor decision.)

So, go ahead. Tell me which posters are conservative and how you tell. (I'll grant that the ones who visibly support Trump are nominally conservative, as the term is sadly used these days.)
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Old 25th May 2018, 01:28 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If it were a business decision, the owners would not be putting in their political speech at the start of the game.
Well, sir, I celebrate this clear statement and my agreement with it. Nice to see that happening for once.

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Old 25th May 2018, 01:32 AM   #127
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This has turned into yet another pubic relations debacle for the NFL--and nobody's taken a knee yet this season!
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Old 25th May 2018, 01:42 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
If you would please clarify that question, then I will do my best to answer it.
You say the players are free to protest, and they chose to protest by bending the knee at the anthem. Why isn't that protest ok?
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Old 25th May 2018, 03:20 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
You say the players are free to protest, and they chose to protest by bending the knee at the anthem. Why isn't that protest ok?
That's my question. It seems to me that the central idea, the defining characteristic, of any act of expression is that it be seen to be expressed. The NFL appears to have decided on a cruder form of "separate but equal," where the separation alone, between the sheep who can be seen to express their political opinions and the goats who must not be seen to express theirs, is all it takes to make the equality of expression.

And, of course, the idea that it has anything at all to do with patriotism on the part of the NFL or Trump is laughable- the NFL is virtue signaling to the same "America, **** yeah!- love it or leave it!" crowd of Neanderthals Trump is dog-whistling to. The NFL wants their dollars and Trump wants their votes.
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Old 25th May 2018, 03:47 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
You say the players are free to protest, and they chose to protest by bending the knee at the anthem. Why isn't that protest ok?

Well,...
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Old 25th May 2018, 06:01 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
You say the players are free to protest, and they chose to protest by bending the knee at the anthem. Why isn't that protest ok?
They're protesting while Black.

That's 100 percent the reason why this is an issue. No other explanation has even been offered that passes the sniff test.

I eagerly await the TBDs and the Loggers of the world to give me a different plausible* explanation.


*Sorry for the difficult task.
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Old 25th May 2018, 06:43 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
They're protesting while Black.

That's 100 percent the reason why this is an issue. No other explanation has even been offered that passes the sniff test.

I eagerly await the TBDs and the Loggers of the world to give me a different plausible* explanation.


*Sorry for the difficult task.
No, no, no. You see, this is not about the NFL objecting to protests by back players. They are just doing it because the protests have been hurting their business, and they are only doing it to protect their revenues. The players' job is not just to play football, it is to make money for the league. That means these players with their protests, which are hurting league income, are not doing their job. As business owners, the owners have the right to insist that their employees do things that make money for the business.

Because, you know, "I don't have a problem with black people but my customers do and that's why I discriminate" is perfectly acceptable.
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Old 25th May 2018, 06:49 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
They're protesting while Black.

That's 100 percent the reason why this is an issue. No other explanation has even been offered that passes the sniff test.

I eagerly await the TBDs and the Loggers of the world to give me a different plausible* explanation.


*Sorry for the difficult task.
Also, successful black people not showing enough gratitude. They should be thankful to their white masters for allowing them to make money playing ball.

I think it's ridiculous the hard line the NFL is taking here. The players are highly skilled professionals, they should have a lot of say into how the league is run. I hope the players association hits back hard against this management over-reach.
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Old 25th May 2018, 07:19 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
You say the players are free to protest, and they chose to protest by bending the knee at the anthem. Why isn't that protest ok?
Thanks much for the clarification.

To answer your question, it is quite OK for the players to protest things by bending the knee when the national anthem is played.

However, the NFL is not required to sponsor any protests which may made by the people that they hire to play football.

I hope this helps.
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Old 25th May 2018, 07:27 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
No, no, no. You see, this is not about the NFL objecting to protests by back players. They are just doing it because the protests have been hurting their business, and they are only doing it to protect their revenues. The players' job is not just to play football, it is to make money for the league. That means these players with their protests, which are hurting league income, are not doing their job. As business owners, the owners have the right to insist that their employees do things that make money for the business.

Because, you know, "I don't have a problem with black people but my customers do and that's why I discriminate" is perfectly acceptable.
And just why is it a problem for the NFL?

Because the players who are doing it are BLACK
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Old 25th May 2018, 07:58 AM   #136
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They shouldnít even play the national anthem at sporting events. Itís stupid.

But when treasonous gits like Trump say people who donít stand for it should leave the country, that makes me want to take a knee.

Finally, our (U.S.) anthem isnít very good. We Americans are good at stealing importing other proplesí ideas and using them as our own - we did it with the tune to our current anthem - so we should appropriate a cool one like La Marseillaise and use that.

Or just make America the Beautiful our anthem - for sporting events, specifically the Ray Charles version, for which all fans would be issued sunglasses.
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Old 25th May 2018, 08:26 AM   #137
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Who wants to watch this commercial-laden nonsense burdened by continually modified rules and fifty different ways to stop the action so that 90% of the time you are not actually watching anything happen, anyway? Sorry about the grammar. Switch to English Football!
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Old 25th May 2018, 08:55 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
Who wants to watch this commercial-laden nonsense burdened by continually modified rules and fifty different ways to stop the action so that 90% of the time you are not actually watching anything happen, anyway? Sorry about the grammar. Switch to English Football!
Just because someone is running on a field doesn't mean something is happening.
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Old 25th May 2018, 11:50 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Also, successful black people not showing enough gratitude. They should be thankful to their white masters for allowing them to make money playing ball. ...
Indeed. Sadly, indeed.
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Old 25th May 2018, 11:55 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Also, successful black people not showing enough gratitude. They should be thankful to their white masters for allowing them to make money playing ball.
And never mind that they actually work far harder than most people - and as I recall often have to put up with the NCAA for years (and I could say plenty about that cartel, but it's a bit of an aside...). But yeah, you hear that a lot about black players in the NFL (and the NBA as well) who protest anything, or move to their home towns, or do anything to displease their so-called fans.

Never heard it about NHL players or NASCAR drivers, oddly.
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Old 25th May 2018, 12:12 PM   #141
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Players should just come up with another sign of protest - let the league play catch-up.
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Old 25th May 2018, 12:16 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
And never mind that they actually work far harder than most people - and as I recall often have to put up with the NCAA for years (and I could say plenty about that cartel, but it's a bit of an aside...). But yeah, you hear that a lot about black players in the NFL (and the NBA as well) who protest anything, or move to their home towns, or do anything to displease their so-called fans.

Never heard it about NHL players or NASCAR drivers, oddly.
Well, I don't know NASCAR, but I'm unfamiliar with any NHL players publicly protesting. As far as moving to another team, sometimes you hear fans bickering, but I never understood it. As long as the player played his best when he was paid for my team, I've nothing against his moving, for whatever reasons.

It's possible the difference in the NHL and the NFL or NBA is due to skin color, but I am in no position to know whether that's so.
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Old 25th May 2018, 12:21 PM   #143
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I can't find the original video, and all I can find is twitter, but here's the link

https://twitter.com/TheLoveBel0w/sta...28452812427276

The question is: What are you angry about?

If they were taking a knee to protest the poor treatment of veterans, would you be mad?
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Old 25th May 2018, 12:26 PM   #144
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The point isn't patriotism. The point is that the NFL wants everyone regardless of political views, to pay for tickets, buy concessions and watch on various media for ad revenue. This isn't a black or white issue. The only color the NFL cares about is green.
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Old 25th May 2018, 12:28 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The point isn't patriotism. The point is that the NFL wants everyone regardless of political views, to pay for tickets, buy concessions and watch on various media for ad revenue. This isn't a black or white issue. The only color the NFL cares about is green.
As I (sarcastically) pointed out above, "I'm not racist but my customers are and that's why I discriminate" is not acceptable for other businesses. Why is it ok for the NFL?
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Old 25th May 2018, 12:29 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Also, successful black people not showing enough gratitude. They should be thankful to their white masters for allowing them to make money playing ball.

I think it's ridiculous the hard line the NFL is taking here. The players are highly skilled professionals, they should have a lot of say into how the league is run. I hope the players association hits back hard against this management over-reach.
Well, since every football player is a gazillionaire who's set for life, why shouldn't they be grateful?
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Old 25th May 2018, 12:37 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Well, since every football player is a gazillionaire who's set for life, why shouldn't they be grateful?
Empathy is more important than gratefulness.
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Old 25th May 2018, 12:54 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The point isn't patriotism. The point is that the NFL wants everyone regardless of political views, to pay for tickets, buy concessions and watch on various media for ad revenue. This isn't a black or white issue. The only color the NFL cares about is green.
And yet they've angered a substantial part of their customers in this move, as well as apparently the players.
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Old 25th May 2018, 01:02 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The point isn't patriotism. The point is that the NFL wants everyone regardless of political views, to pay for tickets, buy concessions and watch on various media for ad revenue. This isn't a black or white issue. The only color the NFL cares about is green.
People keep bringing this up as if it's the only issue, whether or not the NFL has the right to fine them.

Even if they do, I also have the right to call them hypocritical ********, and criticize them. As others have pointed out, if they are forced to go through these theatrics, it essentially means nothing, so why do people get angry? If you don't agree with them, ignore them. If you do agree with them and take notice, it shows that their chosen method of protest is at least somewhat effective, and stifling that expression is a social issue.

ETA: In fact, when the kneeling first started, I didn't pay much attention. But now that they are essentially being "gagged" by their employers, and also by the government, since they are paying for it, I am paying more attention. I don't like people being told to shut up by TPTB, and it's a sincere concern with myself and others. This is probably the exact opposite of what the NFL wanted to happen.
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Old 25th May 2018, 02:05 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The point isn't patriotism. The point is that the NFL wants everyone regardless of political views, to pay for tickets, buy concessions and watch on various media for ad revenue. This isn't a black or white issue. The only color the NFL cares about is green.
Fine, if your point is they have a right as employers to force political speech on employees while muffling that same speech on the part of the latter. I beg to differ that this is appropriate in democracy.

Further, you abstract the context to its transactional nature to the exclusion of other elements, when that aspect is certainly only part of the overall social context. After all, how could anthems even matter if the event and its workings did not extend far beyond the merely transactional? Beware economics: "utility" is a surrogate variable, masking, gosh, complex reality. Reality must be put back into the picture before ever attempting to make social policy, or policy with a significant social dimension, on the basis of economics or the rules of business.

Your point also is that this is not a black or white issue, when the controversial acts in question are, as a matter of record, due to the treatment of blacks. The recent decision made by the networks is within that context, extending beyond the transactional. This part of your position is, then, contrary to fact.
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Old 25th May 2018, 02:17 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Fine, if your point is they have a right as employers to force political speech on employees while muffling that same speech on the part of the latter. I beg to differ that this is appropriate in democracy.
When an employee is on the clock, I don't think it's unreasonable for an employer to insist that they not engage in political speech contrary to the interests of the employer. It's much more problematic when employers try to regulate speech of employees outside of work hours, but that's not what's going on here.
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Old 25th May 2018, 02:25 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
When an employee is on the clock, I don't think it's unreasonable for an employer to insist that they not engage in political speech contrary to the interests of the employer. It's much more problematic when employers try to regulate speech of employees outside of work hours, but that's not what's going on here.
Agreed, by and large, but while I think the NFL is within its rights, it's not a good decision.
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Old 25th May 2018, 03:31 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Agreed, by and large, but while I think the NFL is within its rights, it's not a good decision.
They should have stopped it at the start, before ratings took a hit. Now nobody is happy with them.

I'm satisfied with that outcome, though. Screw the NFL, they suck.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
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Old 25th May 2018, 04:05 PM   #154
Craig4
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
And yet they've angered a substantial part of their customers in this move, as well as apparently the players.
I'm not suggesting this is a great business model for them.
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Old 25th May 2018, 06:25 PM   #155
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
When an employee is on the clock, I don't think it's unreasonable for an employer to insist that they not engage in political speech contrary to the interests of the employer. It's much more problematic when employers try to regulate speech of employees outside of work hours, but that's not what's going on here.
It is different when the employer starts engaging in the political speech during work hours.
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Old 25th May 2018, 06:59 PM   #156
TragicMonkey
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It is good for the nation if all publicly worship in the imperial cult! Anything less is simultaneous treason and blasphemy. Treshphemy! The punishment for treshphemy is to be flogged to death, then executed, then imprisoned for five years, then pay a fine. On the second offense the punishment is harsher, poor encourager Les Archer.
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Old 25th May 2018, 07:24 PM   #157
Beelzebuddy
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
When an employee is on the clock, I don't think it's unreasonable for an employer to insist that they not engage in political speech contrary to the interests of the employer. It's much more problematic when employers try to regulate speech of employees outside of work hours, but that's not what's going on here.
I disagree with the hilited. Allow all of it, or none of it.
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Old 25th May 2018, 08:28 PM   #158
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The controversy has become not about what the protestors are protesting, but the protest itself.
And, frankly, the snide attitude of the left toward any display of patriotism is playing into the hands of the right. This has been a piece of idiocy that has been going on for some time.
George Orwell had some interesting things to say about how in his day the left's sneering on patriotrism was backfiring.
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Old 25th May 2018, 09:06 PM   #159
The Great Zaganza
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Patriotism in the US is 99% stupid:instead of actually doing something for your country, you attack whoever you think doesn't praise it enough.
And Bonespurs is the archetype of this phenomenon.
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Old 25th May 2018, 09:41 PM   #160
BobTheCoward
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The full on racists don't offend me much. At least it is a conscious choice. I'm really bothered by people that say the millionaires shouldn't be complaining. I can't wrap my head around the fact they can't even make it to a few steps of thought. They can't even speak to the concept that people with money are able and willing to emphasize with the plight of others.
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