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Old 3rd June 2018, 11:19 AM   #1
Bob001
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Your FBI at work, with video.

FBI agent does a back flip at a dance club, drops his gun, shoots patron.
Quote:
Then, he swung his arms back and squatted, as if to prepare for his next big move. He jumped up, arching his back and swinging his arms above his head. But as he was about to land his back flip, a gun flew out from his holster at the back of his pants. He landed and as he picked up his gun from the floor, it fired.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...&noredirect=on
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Old 3rd June 2018, 11:43 AM   #2
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Why would he be carrying a gun in a dance club?
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Old 3rd June 2018, 11:55 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Diablo View Post
Why would he be carrying a gun in a dance club?
I don't know about the FBI specifically, but off-duty cops are often required to carry their guns and badges so they can intervene if needed. And it's probably smart policy anyway: a police officer makes enemies, and he never knows when he might encounter one.

ETA: Law enforcement officers are entitled under federal law to carry their guns off-duty and outside their own jurisdictions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_En...ers_Safety_Act

Last edited by Bob001; 3rd June 2018 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 12:00 PM   #4
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It doesn't look like he went to help the guy that got shot.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 12:08 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It doesn't look like he went to help the guy that got shot.
The video is short. At that point he might not have realized that he shot somebody. What's really bizarre is that the gun went off. Unless there was an extremely rare mechanical malfunction, he had to have pulled the trigger, which his finger shouldn't have been near.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 12:13 PM   #6
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What's the situation with carrying a gun and drinking alcohol? I'm not suggesting it was the case here, but are people allowed to carry guns while intoxicated?
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Old 3rd June 2018, 12:28 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Diablo View Post
What's the situation with carrying a gun and drinking alcohol? I'm not suggesting it was the case here, but are people allowed to carry guns while intoxicated?
Laws vary by state, county and city. In some places citizens who can carry firearms lawfully can't carry them into a place that serves alcohol, in others that's okay as long as they don't drink. Being drunk with a gun would be a crime in most places, just like driving drunk.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 12:42 PM   #8
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The only answer to a bad dancer with a gun is a good dancer with a gun.


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Old 3rd June 2018, 12:43 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Laws vary by state, county and city. In some places citizens who can carry firearms lawfully can't carry them into a place that serves alcohol, in others that's okay as long as they don't drink. Being drunk with a gun would be a crime in most places, just like driving drunk.
Would the same criteria apply as with drink driving? Here in France you're allowed one drink. Could the cops breathalyse you for carrying a gun?

ETA: I mean in the US, not France

Last edited by Diablo; 3rd June 2018 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 12:57 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
What's really bizarre is that the gun went off. Unless there was an extremely rare mechanical malfunction, he had to have pulled the trigger, which his finger shouldn't have been near.

It went off when he picked it up, so, yes, he must have pulled the trigger.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 01:05 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
The only answer to a bad dancer with a gun is a good dancer with a gun.

And this guy is not the good dancer!
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Old 3rd June 2018, 01:08 PM   #12
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A modern handgun going off without the trigger being touched in anything resembling the scenario being discussed is unlikely to the point of not even being worth considering.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 01:51 PM   #13
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Old 3rd June 2018, 02:00 PM   #14
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Old 3rd June 2018, 02:11 PM   #15
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Get down! SHow 'em what ya got!

...Oh, no, don't show 'em that.

I know that the FBI tends to run a tighter ship than many police forces in the US overall, but that's...not a high bar, so I'm not entirely sure what their usual reaction to this sort of stupidity. I doubt they smile upon it, though.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 03:57 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Diablo View Post
Why would he be carrying a gun in a dance club?
FBI agents are required to always be armed.

My BIL was in the bureau. He carried his gun everywhere, on or off duty
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Old 3rd June 2018, 04:57 PM   #17
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Some technical genius should invent some sort of mechanism that could be added to guns to prevent them from firing, some sort of mechanism for safety, if such a thing is possible.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 04:57 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
A modern handgun going off without the trigger being touched in anything resembling the scenario being discussed is unlikely to the point of not even being worth considering.
You might be surprised...

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 3rd June 2018, 05:08 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I don't know about the FBI specifically, but off-duty cops are often required to carry their guns and badges so they can intervene if needed. And it's probably smart policy anyway: a police officer makes enemies, and he never knows when he might encounter one.

ETA: Law enforcement officers are entitled under federal law to carry their guns off-duty and outside their own jurisdictions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_En...ers_Safety_Act

Ummm no. When I worked for the INS when it was part of the Justice Department, you could carry off duty as an option but never in a bar. That was a while ago but I'm betting the rule has never changed.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 05:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
And this guy is not the good dancer!

Arm the judges and choreographers.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 05:17 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
FBI agents are required to always be armed.

My BIL was in the bureau. He carried his gun everywhere, on or off duty
Shouldn't the safety be on?
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Old 3rd June 2018, 05:25 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
Shouldn't the safety be on?
As of June 2016 the standard FBI sidearm is a Glock, which don't have manual safeties.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 05:52 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
As of June 2016 the standard FBI sidearm is a Glock, which don't have manual safeties.
Originally, they didn't. Under tremendous public pressure, they finally started making some models with manual safeties. This one, I'm guessing wasn't one such.

As far as the fed is concerned, I sure hope this is investigated as a negligent discharge is a serious issue especially when an actual casualty results. If he had any alcohol in his system (or other drugs) I think he should be fired and consider himself lucky if they don't press formal charges.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 08:56 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Ummm no. When I worked for the INS when it was part of the Justice Department, you could carry off duty as an option but never in a bar. That was a while ago but I'm betting the rule has never changed.
I'm sure that was your department's rule for its officers, but the question above was broader, not just about LEOs, and what civilians are allowed to do legally varies by state.

Quote:
Virginia is far from alone in allowing concealed weapons in bars: A similar measure went into effect today in New Mexico, and more than 40 states now allow concealed weapons in at least some establishments serving alcohol.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/guns-in...-wants-a-shot/

Quote:
More Americans can carry guns in more places than ever before. In the majority of states, law-abiding gun owners can walk into bars, restaurants and churches with their guns without fear of legal ramifications, a News 21 review of all 50 states found.
http://gunwars.news21.com/2014/acros...public-places/

Of course, if police agencies enforced a "no-guns around alcohol" rule, it would mean that officers, maybe with their families, would be unarmed in bars and restaurants where civilians were routinely packing heat. That might get some pushback.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 11:37 PM   #25
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Not my FBI, mate. Stop assuming that all of your audience is American.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 11:49 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Not my FBI, mate. Stop assuming that all of your audience is American.
Well, they do have a field office in Canberra. (Hopefully without dance floor annex).
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Old 3rd June 2018, 11:51 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Well, they do have a field office in Canberra. (Hopefully without dance floor annex).
America has an embassy here too. Though not an ambassador.
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Old 4th June 2018, 12:21 AM   #28
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Old 4th June 2018, 12:38 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I don't know about the FBI specifically, but off-duty cops are often required to carry their guns and badges so they can intervene if needed. And it's probably smart policy anyway: a police officer makes enemies, and he never knows when he might encounter one.

ETA: Law enforcement officers are entitled under federal law to carry their guns off-duty and outside their own jurisdictions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_En...ers_Safety_Act
It doesn't seem like a smart policy at all.
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Old 4th June 2018, 03:14 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The video is short. At that point he might not have realized that he shot somebody. What's really bizarre is that the gun went off. Unless there was an extremely rare mechanical malfunction, he had to have pulled the trigger, which his finger shouldn't have been near.
Why incredibly rare? it isn't like guns are covered by consumer safety laws. It is up to the individuals who have negligent discharge to sue the companies themselves and the companies to determine if they are getting too many lawsuits so that a recall is justified.
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Old 4th June 2018, 03:16 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
A modern handgun going off without the trigger being touched in anything resembling the scenario being discussed is unlikely to the point of not even being worth considering.
Unless it is a Taurus. Those can go off even with a mechanical safety engaged.
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Old 4th June 2018, 03:17 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
Shouldn't the safety be on?
Mechanical safeties are soooo 1920. No one bothers with them anymore.
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Old 4th June 2018, 03:19 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
As of June 2016 the standard FBI sidearm is a Glock, which don't have manual safeties.
Was it his issue gun or a personal carry?
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Old 4th June 2018, 04:58 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
Arm the judges and choreographers.
Well, I was going to say "Arm the DJs" but I remembered that the DJs in my old neighborhood (Alphabet City) were generally armed, anyway.
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Old 4th June 2018, 05:38 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
FBI agent does a back flip at a dance club, drops his gun, shoots patron.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...&noredirect=on
Being that the person in question was an off-duty FBI agent, I am not at all surprised that he was carrying his service weapon. In fact, I would expect him to do so.

However, I was surprised to see that the weapon flopped out of the holster during the back-flip because I would have expected that the weapon would have been better secured by the holster. After all, the holsters that I use do an excellent job of keeping the weapon secured, even if one were to do a back-flip.

Fruthermore, considering that the agent was off-duty at the time, then I was surprised to see that the weapon was chambered and ready to shoot.

Therefore, to those who actually know something about how off-duty law enforcement officers work, the please answer two questions for me.

One, what type of holsters are used by off-duty officers?

And two, do off-duty officers normally carry weapons that are ready to shoot by a press of the trigger?

Thanks much.
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Old 4th June 2018, 05:42 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Being that the person in question was an off-duty FBI agent, I am not at all surprised that he was carrying his service weapon. In fact, I would expect him to do so.

However, I was surprised to see that the weapon flopped out of the holster during the back-flip because I would have expected that the weapon would have been better secured by the holster. After all, the holsters that I use do an excellent job of keeping the weapon secured, even if one were to do a back-flip.

Fruthermore, considering that the agent was off-duty at the time, then I was surprised to see that the weapon was chambered and ready to shoot.

Therefore, to those who actually know something about how off-duty law enforcement officers work, the please answer two questions for me.

One, what type of holsters are used by off-duty officers?

And two, do off-duty officers normally carry weapons that are ready to shoot by a press of the trigger?

Thanks much.
What good is a weapon that takes that extra half second to ready? It is totally worth it for these kind of shootings. That is the standard trade off that people have made, faster ready times for a higher rate of "negligent" shootings.
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Old 4th June 2018, 05:56 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
What good is a weapon that takes that extra half second to ready? It is totally worth it for these kind of shootings. That is the standard trade off that people have made, faster ready times for a higher rate of "negligent" shootings.
Sorry, but I really cannot follow what it is that you are trying to say.

So if you want me to respond, then please clarify your question.

Thanks much.
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Old 4th June 2018, 05:58 AM   #38
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I haven't watched the video. When the gun fires do we see it recoil in an expected way? Or, does he have it held (as if intentionally firing) so that there is no uncontrolled recoil?

Maybe it fell out of the holster because a strap had been unsnapped?
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Old 4th June 2018, 06:21 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I haven't watched the video. When the gun fires do we see it recoil in an expected way? Or, does he have it held (as if intentionally firing) so that there is no uncontrolled recoil?

Maybe it fell out of the holster because a strap had been unsnapped?
I have watched the video and I suggest that you do so as well.

From what I can tell, is that the agent did a back-flip and while he was upside-down, the weapon flopped out of the holster and fell to the ground very near the agent.

Then when upright, the agent quickly recovered the weapon and during this time his finger pressed the trigger and the one shot was fired.

The video does not show what type of holster that was being used, or even if a holster was used. Some holsters do have restraining straps, some do not, and some have a button that must be pressed in order for the weapon to be drawn.
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Old 4th June 2018, 06:36 AM   #40
William Parcher
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Can you see the gun recoil when it fires?
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