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Tags sex trafficking , veterans

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Old 7th June 2018, 11:16 AM   #41
luchog
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
In an earlier century they'd be telling us they'd found definite evidence of a witches' sabbat and human sacrifice and the devil's footprints.
By "earlier century", you clearly mean "the mid-1980s through early 1990s", the peak of the Satantic Ritual Abuse panic.

And, unfortunately, there are factions of Fundamentalist Christianity who still believes in SRA and still pushes the witch hunting mentality.
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Old 7th June 2018, 11:32 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
By "earlier century", you clearly mean "the mid-1980s through early 1990s", the peak of the Satantic Ritual Abuse panic.

And, unfortunately, there are factions of Fundamentalist Christianity who still believes in SRA and still pushes the witch hunting mentality.
Almost as if you had asked the WaPo to illustrate your point:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...?noredirect=on

Quote:
As a psychiatrist, I diagnose mental illness. Also, I help spot demonic possession.
Quote:
So began an unlikely partnership. For the past two-and-a-half decades and over several hundred consultations, I’ve helped clergy from multiple denominations and faiths to filter episodes of mental illness — which represent the overwhelming majority of cases — from, literally, the devil’s work. It’s an unlikely role for an academic physician, but I don’t see these two aspects of my career in conflict. The same habits that shape what I do as a professor and psychiatrist — open-mindedness, respect for evidence and compassion for suffering people — led me to aid in the work of discerning attacks by what I believe are evil spirits and, just as critically, differentiating these extremely rare events from medical conditions.
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Old 7th June 2018, 11:47 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
Is making up stories about finding lairs of paedophiles a good intention?
You're assuming that they've intentionally lied, rather than just being CT idiots.
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Old 7th June 2018, 11:52 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
You're assuming that they've intentionally lied, rather than just being CT idiots.
And many people hunting witches believed in witches and thought they were fighting Satan and protecting their society from eternal torment.
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Old 7th June 2018, 11:58 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
And many people hunting witches believed in witches and thought they were fighting Satan and protecting their society from eternal torment.
Thus the distinction between intentions and actions.
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Old 7th June 2018, 12:02 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
You're assuming that they've intentionally lied, rather than just being CT idiots.
The end result is the same. It'd be nice if we stopped handling these fools with kid gloves about 'their hearts being in the right place' before one of them shoots up another pizzeria or we end up subjected to another variation of the McMartin preschool trial. These are harmful delusional claims not innocent harmless pap.
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Old 7th June 2018, 12:16 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
If someone becomes a vigilante over this, then calling that person a vigilante will be okay. But until that happens, there is a categorical absence of vigilantism here.

I would guess these folks' blatant racism was already enough of an excuse to assault an acceptable target if they were ever of a mind to do so.
The caption under one of the photos in the Daily Mail article reads "Police say the landowner has not given permission for the veterans to be on the site and has ordered them to leave so the camp can be dismantled", but looking at their Facebook page they're still there. Does that count as vigilantism?

I do at least get a vibe from the reporting that they'd easily clearly turn vigilante and harm someone they'd "identify" as their imagined child rapist.
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Old 7th June 2018, 12:25 PM   #48
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Have these guys gotten to the part about God yet? That's usually mixed in thoroughly with this personality type.
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Old 7th June 2018, 01:24 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
The caption under one of the photos in the Daily Mail article reads "Police say the landowner has not given permission for the veterans to be on the site and has ordered them to leave so the camp can be dismantled", but looking at their Facebook page they're still there. Does that count as vigilantism?
I don't think so. But in any case, the last relevant post seems to be from yesterday, and it's nothing but drone footage of the (former) site showing the site's been bulldozed, while the guy who runs the page complains about "destruction of evidence" or sommat.
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Old 7th June 2018, 01:50 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Thus the distinction between intentions and actions.
I don't think that dangerous paranoia is best described as having one's heart in the right place.

One could say that the 9/11 hijackers also believed that they were acting for the good of Muslims and Arabs.
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Old 7th June 2018, 02:42 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
The end result is the same. It'd be nice if we stopped handling these fools with kid gloves about 'their hearts being in the right place' before one of them shoots up another pizzeria or we end up subjected to another variation of the McMartin preschool trial. These are harmful delusional claims not innocent harmless pap.
Nobody has suggested handling them with kid gloves, nor has anyone suggested that their delusions are not potentially harmful.

But at the end of the day, I'd rather be dealing with someone whose well-intentioned actions resulted in evil by accident rather than with someone whose ill-intentioned actions resulted in evil on purpose.
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Old 7th June 2018, 02:44 PM   #52
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You guys really took my offhand comment way more seriously than intended.
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Old 7th June 2018, 02:44 PM   #53
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Well, the oathkeepers are now involved.
https://www.oathkeepers.org/oath-kee...ucson-arizona/

It's a call to action, what could go wrong?
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Old 7th June 2018, 02:53 PM   #54
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Up until today, I'd never even heard of a rape tree. Clearly I need to get out more.

This has escalated rather quickly from a group of nutty folks to an entire militia of nutty folks.
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Old 7th June 2018, 03:14 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
It's a call to action, what could go wrong?
Malheur went wrong.


Originally Posted by Oath Keepers
an obvious “rape tree” with restraints set at child height
It's the same thing as "Bigfoot evidence" found in the woods. They are fixated on an entity with motivations that can be imagined. Therefore it is this thing.
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Old 7th June 2018, 03:16 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
This has escalated rather quickly from a group of nutty folks to an entire militia of nutty folks.
It was a militia of nutty folks right from the start.
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Old 7th June 2018, 03:19 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I'm at a bit of a loss. Can you provide an example where the principle of opposing human trafficking would be interpreted as being immoral or otherwise having one's heart in the wrong place?
I can.

Needing a reason to justify one's bigotry, and then making one up.

That's what is going on with this group.
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Old 7th June 2018, 03:27 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
In an earlier century they'd be telling us they'd found definite evidence of a witches' sabbat and human sacrifice and the devil's footprints.
This monkey? I like this monkey.
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Old 7th June 2018, 03:34 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
This monkey? I like this monkey.
How do you like gladiator movies? Or flying walruses (walrusii?)?

If it's too late to get away clean... pro tip, don't make eye contact.
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Old 7th June 2018, 03:35 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
The caption under one of the photos in the Daily Mail article reads "Police say the landowner has not given permission for the veterans to be on the site and has ordered them to leave so the camp can be dismantled", but looking at their Facebook page they're still there. Does that count as vigilantism?

I do at least get a vibe from the reporting that they'd easily clearly turn vigilante and harm someone they'd "identify" as their imagined child rapist.
That FB page claims they found a child's body, with a photo of a skill. About an hour ago, I guess.
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Old 7th June 2018, 03:37 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
How do you like gladiator movies? Or flying walruses (walrusii?)?

If it's too late to get away clean... pro tip, don't make eye contact.
I'm down with all that. Totes down.

And I never make eye contact. Eye contact is for the weak.
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Old 7th June 2018, 03:44 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Nobody has suggested handling them with kid gloves, nor has anyone suggested that their delusions are not potentially harmful.

But at the end of the day, I'd rather be dealing with someone whose well-intentioned actions resulted in evil by accident rather than with someone whose ill-intentioned actions resulted in evil on purpose.

There is nothing "by accident" about this sort of paranoid, witch-hunting, conspiracy-theory mentality. If they do commit some sort of violent act, it will be entirely intentional, and will proceed organically from the same delusions that leads them to insist that this former homeless encampment is the site of a child sex ring.

As for their "intentions", well, there is a definite debate that can be held regarding their true intentions, which I do not believe are nearly as benign as you seem to. I've lived through too much of those sorts of "good intentions" already to find them anything but a smokescreen for something deeper.
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Old 7th June 2018, 03:47 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Malheur went wrong.
Law enforcement better gain control of this narrative before it turns into a **** storm like that one.
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Old 7th June 2018, 04:01 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
with a photo of a skill.
Probably a picture of a small innocent child solving the Rubik's Cube.
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Old 7th June 2018, 04:08 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I don't think so. But in any case, the last relevant post seems to be from yesterday, and it's nothing but drone footage of the (former) site showing the site's been bulldozed, while the guy who runs the page complains about "destruction of evidence" or sommat.
No, they're still there, witness:

Originally Posted by crescent View Post
That FB page claims they found a child's body, with a photo of a skill. About an hour ago, I guess.
Indeed, here's the link. A century ago, Charles Dawson also claimed he found a skull.

They also posted video where they claimed to have found a decomposing body, but no stills, and I'm not going to listen to the whole sermon.
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Old 7th June 2018, 04:52 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
No, they're still there, witness:



Indeed, here's the link.
That appears to be a different, unrelated site. These guys are running around all over the desert outside Tuscon.

ETA: a skull is a skull, though. Police are required to investigate found human remains, even when they're found by the Bubba-patrol.
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Old 7th June 2018, 06:55 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
That FB page claims they found a child's body, with a photo of a skill. About an hour ago, I guess.
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Probably a picture of a small innocent child solving the Rubik's Cube.
Perhaps they skillfully found a skull.

Speaking skills - typing. Not my strong suit.
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Old 7th June 2018, 08:01 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
This has escalated rather quickly from a group of nutty folks to an entire militia of nutty folks.
Nope, it was a militia of nutty folks right from the beginning. They had guns. And the nuttiness makes them a mob. And the extreme religiosity makes them swivel-eyed ranters. So altogether, you have a swivel-eyed ranting armed mob. While child molesters are awful, a swivel-eyed ranting armed mob is equally unhealthy. Someone could very easily get shot by someone claiming Goddidit. Welcome to the USA 2018.
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Old 7th June 2018, 08:06 PM   #69
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I wonder how many people were out there covering how many miles before they found a skull?
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Old 7th June 2018, 08:20 PM   #70
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Deleted.
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Old 7th June 2018, 10:19 PM   #71
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https://tucson.com/news/local/stelle...dccfc73d9.html


Quote:
Then, on Thursday, Lewis Arthur, leader of the group Veterans on Patrol, went live on the internet to announce that they’d found a skull in the desert. As if they were forensic scientists, they concluded it was the skull of an approximately 9-year-old child . . . The Pima County Medical Examiner determined late Thursday that it was an adult skull.
This story has everything: Pizzagate, Q-Anon, Sov-Cit militia nitwits, and credulous, paranoid conspiracy yucks willing to connect the dots with their Crayolas.
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Old 7th June 2018, 10:31 PM   #72
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Quote:
As if they were forensic scientists, they concluded it was the skull of an approximately 9-year-old child . . . The Pima County Medical Examiner determined late Thursday that it was an adult skull.
Heh.
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Old 7th June 2018, 11:58 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
https://tucson.com/news/local/stelle...dccfc73d9.html




This story has everything: Pizzagate, Q-Anon, Sov-Cit militia nitwits, and credulous, paranoid conspiracy yucks with guns willing to connect the dots with their Crayolas.
ftfy
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Old 8th June 2018, 12:33 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
You're assuming that they've intentionally lied, rather than just being CT idiots.
I don't believe there is a distinction. CT idiots ignore the truth and evidence and make up their own version of what happened. The same as liars. And yes, I do believe these guys are intentionally lying. I also believe these guys are the types of people who have the "with me or against me" mentality.

It is the actions of people like this that lead to others shooting up pizza restaurants.

edit - probably should have read the other posts someone else made exactly the same points. Apologies.

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Old 8th June 2018, 12:43 AM   #75
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I have a conspiracy theory about the conspiracy theory!

Maybe someone from the Trump admin put them up to the original video, to serve as a beacon drawing other militia people to go down there and scour the desert looking for skeletons they're sure to find, because so many people collapse from dehydration crossing the border, so the border crossing deaths can be reframed as a human rights issue supporting Trump's wall!
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Old 8th June 2018, 04:58 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Prove what? That they seem nuts or that being opposed to human trafficking and rape counts as having one's heart in the right place?
The latter, obviously. They don't seem as thought their hearts are in the right place, but I guess it sounded good when you wrote it. They are attention whores and conspiracists and liars. There's no indication that they're actually against human trafficking and rape but plenty of indication that they're out of their gourds.

It's just a strange comment to make... "well, their heart's in the right place". If you want to devote resources and time to saving the unicorn, I'm not going to consider your heart in the right place but your head in a well-known location.
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 8th June 2018, 05:05 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I'm not sure calling these people vigilantes is accurate, since they don't seem to have attacked or harassed any other people or broken any laws themselves. Right now it seems to be just a bunch of old people telling spooky stories.
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
If someone becomes a vigilante over this, then calling that person a vigilante will be okay. But until that happens, there is a categorical absence of vigilantism here.

I would guess these folks' blatant racism was already enough of an excuse to assault an acceptable target if they were ever of a mind to do so.
Perhaps it would be in the name they give their organization.... "Veterans on Patrol"?
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Old 8th June 2018, 07:28 AM   #78
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Pizzagate II, Homelesscampgate!

So meanwhile in Tuscon:

Apparently some of the Cliven Bundy crowd havebeen bored with the lack of attention lately decided they needed a new bugaboo.

So when a few of them came across an abandoned homeless camp they decided the place was a child sex ring.

Their evidence? Well there were some straps on a tree, and Barbie doll...

Of course they went ape**** and have been getting the support of the same folks who fell for Pizzagate, attaching thin threads to everything.

Adding to the drama the crew claimed to have found skull of a 9 year old child. Mind you, they found it twenty miles away from the site, and the skull turned out to be from an adult (and apparently some 2800 human remains have been found in the desert since 2000).

Ignoring the polarizing political bent to this craziness, the local first-responders have been begging people to stop calling them and overwhelming their 911 lines.

And of course, they called in all their militia-type buddies to rand their shirts, beg for donations, and generally make a nuisance of themselves.

Also, in a bid to waste even more police time the initiator of this whole nonsense climbed a tower, something he apparently does on a regular basis.

Ride the crazy train, folks.
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Old 8th June 2018, 08:02 AM   #79
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The loons on my firearm forum are eating this one up. If it's on infowars, it's a fact. Sign of the decline of the US populace that these kinds of stories can be so successful.
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Old 12th June 2018, 09:17 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Up until today, I'd never even heard of a rape tree. Clearly I need to get out more.
Well, yeah. What do you think you get when you plant rapeseedWP?
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