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Tags donald trump , Trump controversies

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Old 10th June 2018, 03:06 PM   #1
ChristianProgressive
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Lawless Donald Trump routinely destroys documents

It is so pervasive that staffers have to retrieve them and tape them back together again to comply with Federal law...

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...-system-635164

And the staffers that did this were forced to resign for no given reason.

Usurper Trump's criminal habits know no end.
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Old 10th June 2018, 03:14 PM   #2
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It's not as crazy as it sounds. Legally, you can't destroy evidence, but you can make it a habit and practice to destroy everything before any one piece becomes evidence. He seems to have learned that lesson in business. He doesn't appear to understand that government is different from private business.
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Old 10th June 2018, 03:20 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
It's not as crazy as it sounds. Legally, you can't destroy evidence, but you can make it a habit and practice to destroy everything before any one piece becomes evidence. He seems to have learned that lesson in business. He doesn't appear to understand that government is different from private business.
US law prevents government officials destroying any and all records, period. I don't believe he doesn't know that.


It was the whole basis of the Clinton email BS.
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Old 10th June 2018, 03:21 PM   #4
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It's only wrong if Loser Libs do it.
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Old 10th June 2018, 03:44 PM   #5
ChristianProgressive
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
It's not as crazy as it sounds. Legally, you can't destroy evidence, but you can make it a habit and practice to destroy everything before any one piece becomes evidence. He seems to have learned that lesson in business. He doesn't appear to understand that government is different from private business.
Which is why we have those laws to begin with. And that can easily backfire in the end, as it shows consciousness of guilt.
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Old 10th June 2018, 03:53 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
It is so pervasive that staffers have to retrieve them and tape them back together again to comply with Federal law...

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...-system-635164

And the staffers that did this were forced to resign for no given reason.

Usurper Trump's criminal habits know no end.
This isn't the half of it. They are ignoring routine accounting documents required by the OIG. These are required for budgetary purposes and they simply fail or refuse to produce them. Nobody knows how much the White House is spending on expenses such as travel, office supplies, staffing etc because of a total lack of due diligence on the part of this administration.
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Old 10th June 2018, 03:55 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
It's not as crazy as it sounds. Legally, you can't destroy evidence, but you can make it a habit and practice to destroy everything before any one piece becomes evidence. He seems to have learned that lesson in business. He doesn't appear to understand that government is different from private business.
I posted the link in the Trump thread before I saw this.

This is not a matter of evidence. All presidential records, even the most routine letters and documents, must be preserved by law. The story says that Trump has torn up official letters from senators, which would hardly be evidence of any misconduct.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Records_Act
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Old 10th June 2018, 03:57 PM   #8
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No one cares. Now if classified documents got thrown around like discarded emails, you guys wouldn’t bat an eye. Hilarious!
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Old 10th June 2018, 03:59 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
US law prevents government officials destroying any and all records, period. I don't believe he doesn't know that.

It was the whole basis of the Clinton email BS.
I just note that different laws apply to different officials, departments and agencies. The President and VP have to preserve everything.
https://www.archives.gov/records-mgmt/faqs/federal.html
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Old 10th June 2018, 04:08 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
No one cares. Now if classified documents got thrown around like discarded emails, you guys wouldn’t bat an eye. Hilarious!
On the contrary, we DO care. The question is if we have the guts to stand up and DO something about it. So far we haven't.
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Old 10th June 2018, 04:08 PM   #11
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Are we certain Trump can read? I'm not convinced.
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Old 10th June 2018, 04:15 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
On the contrary, we DO care. The question is if we have the guts to stand up and DO something about it. So far we haven't.
Yeah get right to it, this has to be the most outrageous thing his administrations done yet. Lol
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Old 10th June 2018, 04:15 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I just note that different laws apply to different officials, departments and agencies. The President and VP have to preserve everything.
https://www.archives.gov/records-mgmt/faqs/federal.html
In Trumpworld, the President is above all reach of law...

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/th...-court-1046929

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...-pardon-myself
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Old 10th June 2018, 04:22 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yeah get right to it, this has to be the most outrageous thing his administrations done yet. Lol
Enjoy your extra potato ration...
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Old 10th June 2018, 05:40 PM   #15
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I'm betting this will be the One Thing that brings Trump down.
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Old 10th June 2018, 05:41 PM   #16
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I'm just pleasantly surprised to see evidence that Trumpf can read.
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Old 10th June 2018, 05:42 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
On the contrary, we DO care. The question is if we have the guts to stand up and DO something about it. So far we haven't.
Do we? There is no penalty for the president violating the law in the law. It's totally silent on the issue. The best you could do is impeach, if you consider this either a high crime or misdemeanor. It's not like a FOIA violation, which actually has a penalty in the law. But the president is not covered by that act.
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Old 10th June 2018, 05:45 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Do we? There is no penalty for the president violating the law in the law. It's totally silent on the issue. The best you could do is impeach, if you consider this either a high crime or misdemeanor. It's not like a FOIA violation, which actually has a penalty in the law. But the president is not covered by that act.
That doesn't mean we DON'T care. It just means it's another law or rule that Trump doesn't think applies to him.
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Old 10th June 2018, 05:55 PM   #19
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The bigger scandal is that the White House still uses paper. I can understand it for documents that require signatures. No doubt they have embossing and raised seals for authentication purposes. But I mean, seriously, every memo, every newspaper clipping, etc, that crosses his desk has to be saved?
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Old 10th June 2018, 06:09 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The bigger scandal is that the White House still uses paper. I can understand it for documents that require signatures. No doubt they have embossing and raised seals for authentication purposes. But I mean, seriously, every memo, every newspaper clipping, etc, that crosses his desk has to be saved?
Everything he writes and any communications to him. The idea is to promote transparency and preserve history.

They also use to keep the tick tock, which is an up to the minute of everything the President does and who he sees. But it is my understanding, this and the white house visitors log has been discontinued.
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Old 10th June 2018, 06:19 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The bigger scandal is that the White House still uses paper. I can understand it for documents that require signatures. No doubt they have embossing and raised seals for authentication purposes. But I mean, seriously, every memo, every newspaper clipping, etc, that crosses his desk has to be saved?
You think he knows how to use a computer?
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Old 10th June 2018, 06:20 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Everything he writes and any communications to him. The idea is to promote transparency and preserve history.
And here I was under the impression that this point in history was going to be a time everyone wanted to forget.
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Old 10th June 2018, 06:26 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
And here I was under the impression that this point in history was going to be a time everyone wanted to forget.
Good point. With Trump, its probably more about saving it for the attorneys.
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Old 10th June 2018, 06:39 PM   #24
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Trump announced (from bringing trying to bring actual peace to Korea) that all the documents were backed up on .gov addresses so any destruction is fine.
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Old 10th June 2018, 06:50 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Trump announced (from bringing trying to bring actual peace to Korea) that all the documents were backed up on .gov addresses so any destruction is fine.
You keep pretending its an 'either or' proposition. That negotiations with other countries requires the destruction of documents and following the law. It doesn't.

So far, Trump has accomplished ZERO with North Korea. So in the mean time, just maybe he could obey the law.

Hell, can't the man walk and chew gum at the same time?
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Old 10th June 2018, 07:05 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
You think he knows how to use a computer?
Yes, of course. All finance-oriented businesses were heavily into computers by the early 1980s, if not earlier. By the mid-1990s everything was done by email. I can remember generating significant amounts of paper into the early 2000s, but after that if I went through more than 100 sheets a year it's a lot.

And even if we accept your premise that he can't use a computer, this is 2018; a tablet works just fine. Swipe when you have read something, or hit a reply button if needed and speak into the VR, which supposedly is much better these days. Record the voice (it is, after all, the President) and make sure somebody checks to ensure the transcription is correct.

But the idea that everything needs to be on paper is wrong. It increases global warming, results in the needless slaughter of many trees, not to mention the price of ink these days.
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Old 10th June 2018, 07:14 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Yes, of course. All finance-oriented businesses were heavily into computers by the early 1980s, if not earlier. By the mid-1990s everything was done by email. I can remember generating significant amounts of paper into the early 2000s, but after that if I went through more than 100 sheets a year it's a lot.

And even if we accept your premise that he can't use a computer, this is 2018; a tablet works just fine. Swipe when you have read something, or hit a reply button if needed and speak into the VR, which supposedly is much better these days. Record the voice (it is, after all, the President) and make sure somebody checks to ensure the transcription is correct.

But the idea that everything needs to be on paper is wrong. It increases global warming, results in the needless slaughter of many trees, not to mention the price of ink these days.
He has people for all of that. He knows how to type "cofvefe" on his i-phone.
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Old 10th June 2018, 07:17 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Yes, of course. All finance-oriented businesses were heavily into computers by the early 1980s, if not earlier. By the mid-1990s everything was done by email. I can remember generating significant amounts of paper into the early 2000s, but after that if I went through more than 100 sheets a year it's a lot.

And even if we accept your premise that he can't use a computer, this is 2018; a tablet works just fine. Swipe when you have read something, or hit a reply button if needed and speak into the VR, which supposedly is much better these days. Record the voice (it is, after all, the President) and make sure somebody checks to ensure the transcription is correct.

But the idea that everything needs to be on paper is wrong. It increases global warming, results in the needless slaughter of many trees, not to mention the price of ink these days.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't. I read that and found it very very hard to believe. But that is my understanding. Yes, using a tablet isn't very hard. Obviously, he knows enough to tweet.
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Old 10th June 2018, 07:33 PM   #29
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I think we need to temper our auto-criticism mode with a little reality, if only occasionally.

Trump, like many business types from the 70s and 80s, probably read those pundits in Fortune or in the various self-help books for management, that the top bestest business moguls work from an absolutely uncluttered desk.

I know many who relied on the fact that anything on there desk came from someone who still had the original or a copy and once they were done with it they made a dramatic and self-satisfying gesture of tearing up the papers. They often did it in the presence of others as a sorta Mammy Yokum, "I has spoken!" move. This topic is now closed, the act says.

There really doesn't seem to be anything in the discussion saying that he's doing anything other than not changing his habitual behavior to match his new situation. The implication in the OP (who is known for such reading-between-the-lines interpretations), that he's shredding evidence is really no where to be seen.

Score it as another in the endless list of things that lend credence to the claims that he's hidebound, thinks he knows it all, is in over his head and can't adjust to the new station he's achieved. Change the header to "Clueless Donald Trump, etc...".

If we were scoring this on the American Bandstand standard, it wouldn't even get a 20. "Lousy lyrics, don't like the beat, and forgettable vocals."
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Old 10th June 2018, 07:38 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Obviously, he knows enough to tweet.

But doesn't know not to tweet.
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Old 10th June 2018, 07:48 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I think we need to temper our auto-criticism mode with a little reality, if only occasionally.

Trump, like many business types from the 70s and 80s, probably read those pundits in Fortune or in the various self-help books for management, that the top bestest business moguls work from an absolutely uncluttered desk.

I know many who relied on the fact that anything on there desk came from someone who still had the original or a copy and once they were done with it they made a dramatic and self-satisfying gesture of tearing up the papers. They often did it in the presence of others as a sorta Mammy Yokum, "I has spoken!" move. This topic is now closed, the act says.

There really doesn't seem to be anything in the discussion saying that he's doing anything other than not changing his habitual behavior to match his new situation. The implication in the OP (who is known for such reading-between-the-lines interpretations), that he's shredding evidence is really no where to be seen.

Score it as another in the endless list of things that lend credence to the claims that he's hidebound, thinks he knows it all, is in over his head and can't adjust to the new station he's achieved. Change the header to "Clueless Donald Trump, etc...".

If we were scoring this on the American Bandstand standard, it wouldn't even get a 20. "Lousy lyrics, don't like the beat, and forgettable vocals."
Say what you will. Everything Trump does is about secrecy and not transparency. As I said, former administrations kept the tick tock which is a minute by minute log of the POTUS's activities and who he meets. Also, the West Wing maintained a visitors log of everyone who entered the West Wing and all calls to and from the West Wing were logged by the telephone system.

All of this has been ended by Trump.
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Old 10th June 2018, 07:57 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Yes, of course. All finance-oriented businesses were heavily into computers by the early 1980s, if not earlier. By the mid-1990s everything was done by email. I can remember generating significant amounts of paper into the early 2000s, but after that if I went through more than 100 sheets a year it's a lot.

And even if we accept your premise that he can't use a computer, this is 2018; a tablet works just fine. Swipe when you have read something, or hit a reply button if needed and speak into the VR, which supposedly is much better these days. Record the voice (it is, after all, the President) and make sure somebody checks to ensure the transcription is correct.

But the idea that everything needs to be on paper is wrong. It increases global warming, results in the needless slaughter of many trees, not to mention the price of ink these days.


I'm not so sure your assumptions apply to Trump.
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Old 10th June 2018, 08:14 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The bigger scandal is that the White House still uses paper. I can understand it for documents that require signatures. No doubt they have embossing and raised seals for authentication purposes. But I mean, seriously, every memo, every newspaper clipping, etc, that crosses his desk has to be saved?
Not just paper. Every electronic record too.
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Old 10th June 2018, 09:47 PM   #34
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Trump ripping up papers all day long ?

This may be a blessing in disguise.

In 20 years from now, we can all pretend that Trump never happened and there won't be any kind of paper trail to prove otherwise !

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Old 10th June 2018, 11:57 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Say what you will. Everything Trump does is about secrecy and not transparency.
I wouldn't say everything Trump does is about secrecy.

I mean, put him in a room with some Russian reporters and he'll start to give away classified information. Not much secrecy there.
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Old 11th June 2018, 12:00 AM   #36
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Yes, of course. All finance-oriented businesses were heavily into computers by the early 1980s, if not earlier. By the mid-1990s everything was done by email. I can remember generating significant amounts of paper into the early 2000s, but after that if I went through more than 100 sheets a year it's a lot.
While computer use was common in business starting in the 1980s, remember one thing: Trump was an incompetent businessman (with multiple failed businesses and bankruptcies.)

Given his incompetence, a lack of computer skills may be possible.
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Old 11th June 2018, 12:53 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
Trump ripping up papers all day long ?

This may be a blessing in disguise.

In 20 years from now, we can all pretend that Trump never happened and there won't be any kind of paper trail to prove otherwise !

No, this is a time period that should be and will be remembered for a long time. It will either stand as a cautionary tale of what happens when a political party flirts with fascism and engineers a situation where laws no longer apply,

or it will stand as the start of the Glorious People's Republic of America.
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Old 11th June 2018, 01:32 AM   #38
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Mod WarningSeveral off topic posts have been sent to AAH.

Please keep to the topic of the thread, which is, for the sake of clarity, not Hillary Clinton, nor each other.
Posted By:zooterkin
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Old 11th June 2018, 04:22 AM   #39
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I doubt Donny has the hand-strength to rip up papers. More likely he has one of his leggy blonde secretaries use a shredder.

Donny will say: "Bolton, please get rid of this NAFTA treaty crap off my desk so I never see it again." And she will take them away without any questions and do the needful.
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Old 11th June 2018, 05:58 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
Trump ripping up papers all day long ?

This may be a blessing in disguise.

In 20 years from now, we can all pretend that Trump never happened and there won't be any kind of paper trail to prove otherwise !

To recycle an old joke, the Trump Presidential Library will contain two books, and one of them won't be fully colored-in.
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