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Old 11th June 2018, 10:26 AM   #1
Ranb
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Removing Names From Voter Rolls

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/11/polit...hio/index.html
Quote:
The Supreme Court on Monday ruled that Ohio's method of removing names from its voter rolls does not violate federal law.

Ohio law allows the state to send address confirmation notices to voters who have not engaged in voter activity for two years. If a voter returns the notice through prepaid mail, or responds online, the information is updated. If the notice is ignored and the voter fails to update a registration over the next four years, the registration is canceled.
Okay, on the surface it doesn't seem so unreasonable.

Quote:
A dissent from Justice Sonia Sotomayor and liberal justices argued that the court ignored a history of voter suppression that the National Voter Registration Act, commonly referred to as the motor voter law, was meant to address.

"Congress enacted the NVRA against the backdrop of substantial efforts by states to disenfranchise low-income and minority voters, including programs that purged eligible voters from registration lists because they failed to vote in prior elections," Sotomayor wrote.
On the other hand using the law to unfairly disenfranchise people is bad.

Quote:
The case came about when Larry Harmon challenged the process arguing that he was removed from the rolls even though he had not moved, but rather had opted not to vote in 2009 and 2010. When he showed up at the polls in 2015 he was told his registration had been canceled. He claimed no recollection of receiving a confirmation notice from the state and he later brought suit along with two public interest groups called the Northeast Ohio Coalition for the Homeless and the A. Philip Randolph Institute.

In September 2016, a federal appeals court ruled against Ohio, saying that 7,515 ballots that had been struck could be cast in the that fall's election. The state appealed, saying the process targets people who have failed to respond to a notice, not those who have failed to vote.
Then we have those lazy ass people who don't make a decent effort to vote. I'm not saying that Mr. Harmon is lazy, but if a person needs to vote to stay registered, then perhaps it is a good idea to actually participate in an election?

https://www.vote.org/state/ohio/
This stuff is not that hard. Libraries have internet now; don't need it at home to register or obtain an absentee ballot. I've voted by mail since 1989.

Sometimes you just have to put your back into it.

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Old 11th June 2018, 10:38 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/11/polit...hio/index.html

Okay, on the surface it doesn't seem so unreasonable.


On the other hand using the law to unfairly disenfranchise people is bad.


Then we have those lazy ass people who don't make a decent effort to vote. I'm not saying that Mr. Harmon is lazy, but if a person needs to vote to stay registered, then perhaps it is a good idea to actually participate in an election?

https://www.vote.org/state/ohio/
This stuff is not that hard. Libraries have internet now; don't need it at home to register or obtain an absentee ballot. I've voted by mail since 1989.

Sometimes you just have to put your back into it.

Ranb
But how easy is it to vote by mail in Ohio?

Like how they give republican areas more time to vote than democrat areas? That cool to or not?

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...o-gops-early-v

Or having issues with vision?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN12W3LQ

And if you try to vote and get your vote rejected because of a poll worker error how does that count?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/court-r...ong-precincts/

Yep all the good reasons to disenfranchise people, no campaign to limit the voting in some areas at all not matter what the courts have ruled. It is all good as long as it helps republicans.
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Old 11th June 2018, 10:54 AM   #3
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I was removed, and had to register again. I live in a state and county that is usually a foregone conclusion as far as voting goes, but I vote anyway because I can.
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Old 11th June 2018, 11:31 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But how easy is it to vote by mail in Ohio?
As far as I know it is just filling in the application to do so here; https://www.vote.org/absentee-ballot/ohio/
I don't know for sure though. Perhaps someone from Ohio can tell us?

In my opinion it is the local elections that affect my life more than the national ones. Even though I couldn't bring myself to vote for Clinton or Trump in 2016, my ballot was not blank. I had lots of other boxes to fill in.

Last edited by Ranb; 11th June 2018 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 11th June 2018, 11:34 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
I was removed, and had to register again. I live in a state and county that is usually a foregone conclusion as far as voting goes, but I vote anyway because I can.
And that re-registration is where the real suppression kicks in, with extensive proofs of documentation required that place an undue burden on the poor, disabled, elderly, etc.
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Old 11th June 2018, 11:42 AM   #6
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So we know there were people allowed to vote that couldn't because of this law.

Do we know who is voting but not permitted if this law did not exist?
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Old 11th June 2018, 11:43 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
As far as I know it is just filling in the application to do so here; https://www.vote.org/absentee-ballot/ohio/
I don't know for sure though. Perhaps someone from Ohio can tell us?

In my opinion it is the local elections that affect my life more than the national ones. Even though I couldn't bring myself to vote for Clinton or Trump in 2016, my ballot was not blank. I had lots of other boxes to fill in.
And you clearly take no issue with the history of other ways Ohio disenfranchises people. This of course raised the bar for people previously disenfranchised by other means who now have had their voter registration removed. A truely idea situation.
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Old 11th June 2018, 12:46 PM   #8
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My concerns were limited to those issues in the OP. I've yet to read the links you provided.
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Old 11th June 2018, 12:50 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
And that re-registration is where the real suppression kicks in, with extensive proofs of documentation required that place an undue burden on the poor, disabled, elderly, etc.
Extensive? Like a drivers lisence? Birth certificate?

How many actually don’t have this sort of documentation?
And why should they be allowed to vote if they don’t have it. Seems they are ripe for freebies from the corrupt left?
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Old 11th June 2018, 01:11 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Extensive? Like a drivers lisence? Birth certificate?

How many actually don’t have this sort of documentation?
And why should they be allowed to vote if they don’t have it. Seems they are ripe for freebies from the corrupt left?
Imagine being homeless Logger. You might not have a driver's licence, or birth certificate. While you might live in an area, you are not recognized. The poorer someone is the likelihood grows that they may not have the proper ID.

And why is it that in some jurisdictions an NRA card is acceptable but a student ID card is not? Why is that the Republican party's strategy is to disenfranchise voters as opposed to encouraging participation? Why not allow same day voter registration? Why in such a hurry to purge voter rolls?

Are Republicans afraid these people won't vote for them?
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Old 11th June 2018, 01:14 PM   #11
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It seems like a pointless law.
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Old 11th June 2018, 01:15 PM   #12
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The only reason the current regime (Republicans, right?) would want to purge voter rolls is they think their opposition will be reduced dis-proportionally. Otherwise, why would it matter much if someone who didn't vote for 2 years suddenly decided to go to the polls?

If your opposition is heavily concentrated in the Hispanic community, you will try to remove as many Rodriguezes and Joses as you can while you are still in power.
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Old 11th June 2018, 01:24 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
My concerns were limited to those issues in the OP. I've yet to read the links you provided.
And of course context is not relevant.
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Old 11th June 2018, 01:57 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Imagine being homeless Logger. You might not have a driver's licence, or birth certificate. While you might live in an area, you are not recognized. The poorer someone is the likelihood grows that they may not have the proper ID.

And why is it that in some jurisdictions an NRA card is acceptable but a student ID card is not? Why is that the Republican party's strategy is to disenfranchise voters as opposed to encouraging participation? Why not allow same day voter registration? Why in such a hurry to purge voter rolls?

Are Republicans afraid these people won't vote for them?
Logger admitted to exactly why he likes this law, and what it does. Because people who are poor will need help at times. Those people tend to vote for Democrats. He said it right at the end of his statement.

Originally Posted by Logger
Seems they are ripe for freebies from the corrupt left?
He doesn't care that those people are being oppressed and that they are in pain, perhaps some could even be those military vets that the right feigns to care so much about. It makes no difference. If it can block a vote for someone on the left, then **** 'em.
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Old 11th June 2018, 01:59 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Sherman Bay View Post
The only reason the current regime (Republicans, right?) would want to purge voter rolls is they think their opposition will be reduced dis-proportionally. Otherwise, why would it matter much if someone who didn't vote for 2 years suddenly decided to go to the polls?

If your opposition is heavily concentrated in the Hispanic community, you will try to remove as many Rodriguezes and Joses as you can while you are still in power.
It is not 2 years. I think it is 2 plus 4. Supposedly it is to remove voters from the rolls who have moved.
To stay on they don’t have to vote but if they don’t vote they have to return the card that was mailed.
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Old 11th June 2018, 02:28 PM   #16
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I seriously can't fathom how you have managed to make the judiciary into a political weapon.

Good going, USA.
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Old 11th June 2018, 02:33 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Logger admitted to exactly why he likes this law, and what it does. Because people who are poor will need help at times. Those people tend to vote for Democrats. He said it right at the end of his statement.
Originally Posted by Logger
Seems they are ripe for freebies from the corrupt left?
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
He doesn't care that those people are being oppressed and that they are in pain, perhaps some could even be those military vets that the right feigns to care so much about. It makes no difference. If it can block a vote for someone on the left, then **** 'em.
As opposed to freebies from the corrupt right? IE: Laws that hamper unions and collective bargaining. Eliminating consumer protection so it is easier to cheat people.

He speaks as if these poor people can be bought. Even if you paid them to vote which would be illegal, you could never be sure they voted the way you wanted.
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Old 11th June 2018, 02:43 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
He speaks as if these poor people can be bought. Even if you paid them to vote which would be illegal, you could never be sure they voted the way you wanted.
Actually, with the mail-in ballot system, which several states (including my own) have adopted, it is possible to check how people vote. By doing away with the voting booth we have lost a layer of security, and privacy, in the voting process.
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Old 11th June 2018, 02:56 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
And that re-registration is where the real suppression kicks in, with extensive proofs of documentation required that place an undue burden on the poor, disabled, elderly, etc.
I had to get a copy of my birth certificate. and, as you said, it is a burden.
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Old 11th June 2018, 03:01 PM   #20
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Another Scotus pick upcoming.
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Old 11th June 2018, 03:28 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
I had to get a copy of my birth certificate. and, as you said, it is a burden.
It's a pain in the ass. I had to get a copy of mine and the hoops I had to go through were incredibly cumbersome. I live in Washington State but I was born in Iowa. I had to photocopy my driver's license and mail that to the county in Iowa I was born along with a check and everything had to match. . Now, what do you do if you dont have a driver's license? Or have a home address Or your address keeps changing because you're couch surfing? You got your bank account 3 addresses ago and since it doesn't match your current mailing address youre out of luck. And this to vote in an election?
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Old 11th June 2018, 04:50 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Imagine being homeless Logger. You might not have a driver's licence, or birth certificate. While you might live in an area, you are not recognized. The poorer someone is the likelihood grows that they may not have the proper ID.
Lol, a homeless person, really, should they even be allowed to vote? Why is it that a person who is completely dependent on society should even have a vote. But really! How many homeless people do you think vote? Why she we make our voting system so wide open to fraud that some bum can just walk off the street to cast a vote. That is truly where the dems are.
Quote:
And why is it that in some jurisdictions an NRA card is acceptable but a student ID card is not? Why is that the Republican party's strategy is to disenfranchise voters as opposed to encouraging participation? Why not allow same day voter registration? Why in such a hurry to purge voter rolls?
Because we shouldn’t be so quick to allow the stupid (democrat low information voters) to vote.
Quote:
Are Republicans afraid these people won't vote for them?
They’re voting their loser asses a government check, we know who they’ll vote for. Of course the dems need the vote so they can once again try and stay in power dishonestly.
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Old 11th June 2018, 04:51 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Sherman Bay View Post
The only reason the current regime (Republicans, right?) would want to purge voter rolls is they think their opposition will be reduced dis-proportionally. Otherwise, why would it matter much if someone who didn't vote for 2 years suddenly decided to go to the polls?

If your opposition is heavily concentrated in the Hispanic community, you will try to remove as many Rodriguezes and Joses as you can while you are still in power.
Lol

Of course that isn’t happening!
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Old 11th June 2018, 04:54 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Logger admitted to exactly why he likes this law, and what it does. Because people who are poor will need help at times. Those people tend to vote for Democrats. He said it right at the end of his statement.
Any poor person can vote and should vote, nothing is stopping that.

Quote:
He doesn't care that those people are being oppressed and that they are in pain, perhaps some could even be those military vets that the right feigns to care so much about. It makes no difference. If it can block a vote for someone on the left, then **** 'em.
Cry me a river! Getting registered to vote is easy. It would be easy for a military vet to get registered.
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Old 11th June 2018, 04:56 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
As opposed to freebies from the corrupt right? IE: Laws that hamper unions and collective bargaining. Eliminating consumer protection so it is easier to cheat people.
forcing me to be apart of something isn’t really a freebie IMO.
Quote:
He speaks as if these poor people can be bought. Even if you paid them to vote which would be illegal, you could never be sure they voted the way you wanted.
The poor are the easiest to buy, that’s why most are democrats.
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Old 11th June 2018, 04:58 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
I had to get a copy of my birth certificate. and, as you said, it is a burden.
It should be, takes effort to be responsible.
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Old 11th June 2018, 04:58 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Now, what do you do if you dont have a driver's license? Or have a home address Or your address keeps changing because you're couch surfing? You got your bank account 3 addresses ago and since it doesn't match your current mailing address youre out of luck. And this to vote in an election?
Get a State ID card. My alien wife got one by showing her passport, marriage license and fiancee visa.

I have to admit I tend to forget how much harder it can be these days to register. I registered back in 1999; probably gotten harder since.
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Old 11th June 2018, 04:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It's a pain in the ass. I had to get a copy of mine and the hoops I had to go through were incredibly cumbersome. I live in Washington State but I was born in Iowa. I had to photocopy my driver's license and mail that to the county in Iowa I was born along with a check and everything had to match. . Now, what do you do if you dont have a driver's license? Or have a home address Or your address keeps changing because you're couch surfing? You got your bank account 3 addresses ago and since it doesn't match your current mailing address youre out of luck. And this to vote in an election?
If one can’t get it figured out they aren’t responsible enough to vote!!!

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Old 11th June 2018, 05:02 PM   #29
ChristianProgressive
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Extensive? Like a drivers lisence? Birth certificate?

How many actually don’t have this sort of documentation?
A lot of people don't. And it takes time and money to get them, making it more difficult.

The last time I renewed my license I had to send away for acceptable documentation to get it. It took two weeks and cost more than $60 before I was done. I was lucky I had the money and time for the repeated trips to the license bureau, as well as the transportation to get there.



Quote:
And why should they be allowed to vote if they don’t have it. Seems they are ripe for freebies from the corrupt left?
Because they are citizens, and voting is their right, perhaps? One they are not supposed to have to PAY for (via what amounts to a poll tax).

States are pulling all sorts of shennanigans to disenfranchise targeted groups of voters, typically poor, minorities, and students. This used to be America.
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Old 11th June 2018, 05:04 PM   #30
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I've seen an awful lot of laws, proposals, initiatives, to change the way people become eligible to vote in America, and the one, universal, thing that is true about all of them is that they are supported by whichever party would get a net gain in votes from it. Actually making it more likely for more citizens to vote is never the issue, nor is reducing the nearly non-existent problem of voting fraud. It's all about making it easier for our team to vote, and making it harder for the other team to vote.

I try to avoid thinking that way, and so I just try to do things that sound sensible to me. Register to vote while getting a driver's license? That sounds pretty darned sensible. Have to show ID? Sounds pretty darned sensible.

So I can't get bent out of shape about a law to purge dead people from voting rolls, regardless of whose team wins from it, and regardless of the fact that the people who passed the law did so specifically because they thought their team would be the ones who benefit, while undoubtedly talking about "integrity" or something. It's a bunch of hogwash, but when all is said and done, it's pretty reasonable.

And I certainly can't imagine how such a law could be unconstitutional. I doubt I'll read this particular Supreme Court opinion, but I can't see how four justices would say that it violates the constitution. If someone could give a couple of sentences of summary about why that might be, it might pique my interest enough to pursue it, but for the moment I can't imagine what provision of the constitution it supposedly violated.
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Old 11th June 2018, 05:10 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol, a homeless person, really, should they even be allowed to vote?
Because they are citizens too. Being homeless does not mean you forfeit your Constitutional rights.

Quote:
Why is it that a person who is completely dependent on society should even have a vote.
Because they are citizens and it is their right.

Quote:
Because we shouldn’t be so quick to allow the stupid (democrat low information voters) to vote.
That's not what the Constitution says.


Quote:
They’re voting their loser asses a government check, we know who they’ll vote for. Of course the dems need the vote so they can once again try and stay in power dishonestly.
GOP just gave rich people and corporations what amounts to a government check for over a Trillion and a half dollars...when do they stop being citizens?
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Old 11th June 2018, 05:10 PM   #32
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol, a homeless person, really, should they even be allowed to vote?
ABSOLUTELY!
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Why is it that a person who is completely dependent on society should even have a vote?
Why shouldn't they? Do we want them to participate in society or should we just euthanize them?

Originally Posted by logger View Post
But really! How many homeless people do you think vote?
I don't know. It's sketchy, but many don't vote simply because it is too difficult for them to vote. But everyone should vote and participate in our society.
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Why she we make our voting system so wide open to fraud that some bum can just walk off the street to cast a vote. That is truly where the dems are.
Because we shouldn’t be so quick to allow the stupid (democrat low information voters) to vote.
Why is it Republicans trot out this phony argument time and again? (That's rhetorical) Voter fraud is so beyond rare that any effect it has had is negligible at worst. Election fraud and deliberate voter disenfranchisement is another issue.

Originally Posted by logger View Post
They’re voting their loser asses a government check, we know who they’ll vote for. Of course the dems need the vote so they can once again try and stay in power dishonestly.
As opposed to the rich and powerful voting their bank accounts?

You seem to believe that ONLY people who think EXACTLY as you do should be able to vote. That democracy and society is only for those who have money. That is your dividing line. You call these people losers. Whereas many of them are well educated and have merely fallen on hard times.
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Last edited by acbytesla; 11th June 2018 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 11th June 2018, 05:14 PM   #33
ChristianProgressive
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

Of course that isn’t happening!
*ahem*

https://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf...eys_drive.html

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ly-voting-2016
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Old 11th June 2018, 05:15 PM   #34
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
If one can’t get it figured out they aren’t responsible enough to vote!!!
Can't get it figured out? No empathy for others. What is easy and routine for most of us is very difficult for others and society keeps making it harder.
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Old 11th June 2018, 05:16 PM   #35
logger
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post

Why is it Republicans trot out this phony argument time and again. Voter fraud is so beyond rare that any effect it has had is negligible at worst. Election fraud and deliberate voter disenfranchisement is another issue.
You want a homeless person to literally be able to walk off the street with no documentation and register to vote.


Quote:
As opposed to the rich and powerful voting their bank accounts?
When people can simply vote to steal your property, it is of concern whether you are rich, middle class or poor.
Quote:
You seem to believe that ONLY people who think EXACTLY as you do should be able to vote. That democracy and society is only for those who have money. That is your dividing line. You call these people losers. Whereas many of them are well educated and have merely fallen on hard times.
Yeah, fallen on hard times their entire life! Lol
I think voting is a very serious right that should be taken responsibly. People who have lived their lives irresponsibly and down right reckless shouldn’t have that right.

Notice that doesn’t include people who have fallen on hard times. Registering to vote is about as simple as it gets, if you can’t follow the simple guidelines for it, that person shouldn’t vote!

Last edited by logger; 11th June 2018 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 11th June 2018, 05:19 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Can't get it figured out? No empathy for others. What is easy and routine for most of us is very difficult for others and society keeps making it harder.
Yes, no empathy for a person who can’t figure out how to get registered to vote! It should be a burden, it’s that important.
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Old 11th June 2018, 05:23 PM   #37
logger
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
This used to be America.
It is so much easier to vote today then it’s ever been.
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Old 11th June 2018, 05:24 PM   #38
ChristianProgressive
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You want a homeless person to literally be able to walk off the street with no documentation and register to vote.
Show me where the Constitution says you have to have a home address to vote.


Quote:
When people can simply vote to steal your property, it is of concern whether you are rich, middle class or poor.
Taxes are not your property any more than your rent is. They are owed debts, in this case, to society.


Quote:
Yeah, fallen on hard times their entire life! Lol
I think voting is a very serious right that should be taken responsibly. People who have lived their lives irresponsibly and down right reckless shouldn’t have that right.
Show me where the Constitution says they stopped being citizens.

Quote:
Notice that doesn’t include people who have fallen on hard times. Registering to vote is about as simple as it gets, if you can’t follow the simple guidelines for it, that person shouldn’t vote!
Not so simple if you are poor, lack mobility, etc.
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Old 11th June 2018, 05:26 PM   #39
ChristianProgressive
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
It is so much easier to vote today then it’s ever been.
So long as you have the time, money, physical mobility, etc to jump through all the hoops and obstacles states set in your way.
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"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28
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Old 11th June 2018, 05:26 PM   #40
logger
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Because they are citizens too. Being homeless does not mean you forfeit your Constitutional rights.
Then register!


Quote:
Because they are citizens and it is their right.
Then register!


Quote:
That's not what the Constitution says.
Then register!



Quote:
GOP just gave rich people and corporations what amounts to a government check for over a Trillion and a half dollars...when do they stop being citizens?
They would be the ones being robbed.
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