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Old 12th June 2018, 09:11 AM   #41
theprestige
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Merchant bankers are but one of the countless improvements that humans have been making to human civilization since human civilization first became a thing.
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Old 12th June 2018, 09:35 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
a good friend of mine is an investment banker who has literally spent his whole career putting together deals to build, expand or equip children's hospitals.

so......
So that's how things are done in the USA. Merchant banking is involved in a wide range of activities. Perhaps in Europe hospitals are built using public funding and bankers have a smaller role. Does that mean you now favour the expansion of the state sector? Once a feature becomes part of society it plays all kinds of roles. I'm sure that slaveowners in 1860 Alabama provided the labour force for many socially necessary activities. Would we excuse slavery on such grounds? "My great great grandfather" you might say "was a slave merchant, but supplied many households with wetnurses for mothers who couldn't suckle their own children. So .... " well these things were done that way because slavery was how labour was supplied. There are better ways.

Whether merchant banking can be done away with or ought to be done away with, I don't know, but the excesses of the 2003-2008 bubble indicated that it could do with some cleaning up, because its members unfortunately didn't spend all their time equipping children's hospitals, though of course some of them did.
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Old 12th June 2018, 09:39 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Merchant bankers are but one of the countless improvements that humans have been making to human civilization since human civilization first became a thing.
That begs the question whether they will be replaced with something even more effective. The horse collar was a great advance in transportation...in its day. But then something better came along. Enslaving prisoners was better than eating them, as was done in primitive times; but now we have machines and have no need to do either of these old fashioned things.
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Old 12th June 2018, 09:47 AM   #44
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Raises the question, maybe.

Maybe.
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Old 12th June 2018, 09:54 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
So that's how things are done in the USA. Merchant banking is involved in a wide range of activities. Perhaps in Europe hospitals are built using public funding and bankers have a smaller role. Does that mean you now favour the expansion of the state sector? Once a feature becomes part of society it plays all kinds of roles. I'm sure that slaveowners in 1860 Alabama provided the labour force for many socially necessary activities. Would we excuse slavery on such grounds? "My great great grandfather" you might say "was a slave merchant, but supplied many households with wetnurses for mothers who couldn't suckle their own children. So .... " well these things were done that way because slavery was how labour was supplied. There are better ways. .
I have no idea how one compares putting together a financing deal to expand a clinic at a hospital to slaveowners in 1860 Alabama, but....

As far as the article?

A photo of the article's author is here:

https://www.northeastern.edu/cssh/pe...zanna-walters/


Another view
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Old 12th June 2018, 10:18 AM   #46
Craig B
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I have no idea how one compares putting together a financing deal to expand a clinic at a hospital to slaveowners in 1860 Alabama, but....
Just arguing that there are different ways of achieving the same result, even if it's a socially desirable result.
Quote:
As far as the article?

A photo of the article's author is here:

https://www.northeastern.edu/cssh/pe...zanna-walters/


Another view
She appears to be a serious and sincere person, and I think we should take her at her word.
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Old 12th June 2018, 01:30 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba View Post
Please tell me you meant to write "twit".
She is a twat

1. a woman's genitals.
2. a person regarded as stupid or obnoxious.
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Old 12th June 2018, 02:04 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
She is a twat

1. a woman's genitals.
2. a person regarded as stupid or obnoxious.
That's basically the equivalent of calling someone a dick. Nobody seems to get their panties in a twist about the gender implications of that insult.
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Old 12th June 2018, 02:11 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's basically the equivalent of calling someone a dick. Nobody seems to get their panties in a twist about the gender implications of that insult.
True

Lol
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 12th June 2018, 03:28 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's basically the equivalent of calling someone a dick. Nobody seems to get their panties in a twist about the gender implications of that insult.
To me, for what that's worth, neither "dick" nor "twat" carry gender implications the way a word like "bitch" does.
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Old 12th June 2018, 03:50 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
She is a twat

1. a woman's genitals.
2. a person regarded as stupid or obnoxious.
Cultural difference. In the US, that word is just never used for anything other than meaning number 1.
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Old 12th June 2018, 04:36 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Cultural difference. In the US, that word is just never used for anything other than meaning number 1.

Regional differences. Lived my whole life in the US and in the places I've lived the word is rarely used at all, but when it is it's pretty much evenly distributed between #1 and #2. Case #2 even occasionally used about men.
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Old 12th June 2018, 04:38 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Cultural difference. In the US, that word is just never used for anything other than meaning number 1.
You’re out of touch. The word is used just as much for 1 as it is 2.
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Old 12th June 2018, 05:19 PM   #54
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An interesting counter article from an evangelical Christian, I think his last point is the most telling


Quote:
I do believe that this seeming justification of hatred toward all men (whatever nuances and exceptions were implied) is not a mature, helpful response to the misdeeds of especially so many male celebrities (and others). I am surprised the Washington Post even published it. Would that newspaper publish a column raising the question whether it might be justified to hate all Muslims because of the misdeeds of some? Of course not. At least I hope not!


But I would ask the author of the column this question: Do you think it might be okay to hate all or even most Muslims because some have been and are terrorists? I’m sure she would say no. Then why is it okay to even raise the question whether it might be okay to hate men?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereo...y-to-hate-men/
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Old 12th June 2018, 05:43 PM   #55
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I wouldn't use the argument about punishing one person or group of people for oppression committed by others, because it starts by accepting the claim that they were oppressors in the first place. Both genders being stuck in prescribed gender-based social roles is not oppression of one by the other.
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Old 12th June 2018, 06:04 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Cultural difference. In the US, that word is just never used for anything other than meaning number 1.
Nonsense. It’s less common, but it’s definitely not never.
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Old 12th June 2018, 07:16 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
To me, for what that's worth, neither "dick" nor "twat" carry gender implications the way a word like "bitch" does.
Outside of a few mammals, none of which are human, there is no gender implication to the word "bitch."

bitch
biCH/Submit
noun
1.a female dog, wolf, fox, or otter.
2.informal
a difficult or unpleasant situation or thing.
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Old 12th June 2018, 08:18 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Outside of a few mammals, none of which are human, there is no gender implication to the word "bitch."
You'd have to be remarkably ignorant of modern feminism in order to claim such a thing.

Personally I'm trying to reduce my use of the word "dick". Largely, this takes the form of refraining from insulting people at all.
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Old 12th June 2018, 08:31 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
You'd have to be remarkably ignorant of modern feminism in order to claim such a thing.
Or just modern English.

qayak, if you call someone a bitch, it will be taken as a gendered and sexist insult. Highly recommended if your goal is to give maximum offense for minimum speech.
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Old 12th June 2018, 08:33 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
You'd have to be remarkably ignorant of modern feminism in order to claim such a thing.

Personally I'm trying to reduce my use of the word "dick". Largely, this takes the form of refraining from insulting people at all.
Damn. It must really suck to be you.
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Old 12th June 2018, 08:41 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Cultural difference. In the US, that word is just never used for anything other than meaning number 1.
Here, number 1 has a different meaning.
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Old 12th June 2018, 11:24 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I wouldn't use the argument about punishing one person or group of people for oppression committed by others, because it starts by accepting the claim that they were oppressors in the first place. Both genders being stuck in prescribed gender-based social roles is not oppression of one by the other.
+1.

It seems to me that almost everyone ignores the drawbacks of the male role in society both historically and presently. I think this is mostly due to the apex fallacy (used routinely by the author and feminists in general when talking about "men have all the power" ie patriarchy theory).
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Old 12th June 2018, 11:29 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Or just modern English.

qayak, if you call someone a bitch, it will be taken as a gendered and sexist insult. Highly recommended if your goal is to give maximum offense for minimum speech.
Maybe where you live

Not here
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 12th June 2018, 11:30 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
bitch
biCH/Submit
noun
1.a female dog, wolf, fox, or otter.
2.informal
a difficult or unpleasant situation or thing.

This definition doesn't seem to be comprehensive enough:
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I AGREE

(I bet this one's is already attributed to the Mandela effect!)

It seems to support your claim that it doesn't always imply gender.
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Old 12th June 2018, 11:31 PM   #65
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Should add plenty of blokes are called the c word

Though I get in some places they aren't like the US apparently
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 13th June 2018, 02:46 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Merchant bankers can retrain as merchant sperm bankers. Good solution.
Merchant bankers aren't usually interested in small deposits.
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Old 13th June 2018, 05:08 AM   #67
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Quote:
Why can’t we hate men?
Because hatred is irrational and counterproductive. Hatred digs trenches where bridges could be built.

Quote:
Pledge to vote for feminist women only. Don’t run for office. Don’t be in charge of anything. Step away from the power. We got this.
A radical feminist telling men to take charge of nothing... So she's quite fine with deadbeat fathers? I don't really think "she has this".

I recognize that women have been and are treated unfairly. But I refuse to take blame for all problems women face just on the basis of my gender.

The author quite clearly wants men to atone for the sins of past men. That is radical feminism in a nutshell. Men must suffer.
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Old 13th June 2018, 05:26 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
Because hatred is irrational and counterproductive. Hatred digs trenches where bridges could be built.



A radical feminist telling men to take charge of nothing... So she's quite fine with deadbeat fathers? I don't really think "she has this".

I recognize that women have been and are treated unfairly. But I refuse to take blame for all problems women face just on the basis of my gender.

The author quite clearly wants men to atone for the sins of past men. That is radical feminism in a nutshell. Men must suffer.
I think she means 'don't be in charge of anything prestigious'.
I bet she's fine with men being in charge of domestic chores, manual labor, and crappy stuff nobody really wants to do...
Just nothing that would give them status, because other men have already used up the male share apparently.
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Old 13th June 2018, 06:28 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
An interesting counter article from an evangelical Christian, I think his last point is the most telling





http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereo...y-to-hate-men/
I tend to fall more along the lines of this view. By the logic of the woman quoted in the OP, we must therefore hate all Germans because of the Nazis, hate all Christians because of the Crusades, hate all Muslims because of a few terrorists, hate all Latinos because of the largely Latino gangs, hate all white people because of both slavery and the Native American decimation, hate all blacks because of crime statistics... I mean the list goes on. Heck, I could add hate all women because of what Eve did, according to the Bible at least. We'd end up hating everyone, including ourselves, because not one of us is without fault for SOMETHING in our individual backgrounds.

I prefer to work WITH men to move toward gender equality, by finding the men who do not agree with the misogynistic views of the vanishingly small minority who unfortunately held power for a while and let it go to their heads a bit much. They do exist, lady in the OP; and I bet there's a lot more of them around you than you think. Sure, some behaviors need to be changed, starting with young boys being taught that girls have bodily autonomy the same as boys and therefore it's not okay to touch someone without their permission, but also teaching young boys that it's okay to be sensitive, it's okay to cry, it's okay to like pretty things, and all the toxic "be a man, don't cry, don't show emotions" BS is not the correct way to think. We're not going to get anywhere with the current older generation; they're too stuck in their ways to really get anywhere, IMO, with notable exceptions of course; so start with the newer generations, teach them right, and they'll grow up believing right down to their toenails that girls are just as good at things as boys and are therefore deserving of being treated equally. It'll be a tough road to slog, and we probably won't get there in my lifetime, but we're already starting down that road despite all the obstacles, so it'll happen.
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Old 13th June 2018, 06:32 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
I think she means 'don't be in charge of anything prestigious'.
I bet she's fine with men being in charge of domestic chores, manual labor, and crappy stuff nobody really wants to do...
Just nothing that would give them status, because other men have already used up the male share apparently.
Let's assume for a moment that we actually wanted to accomplish this goal of relegating men to lower status to boost women. How would we actually go about doing that? Will asking men to voluntarily take lower-status, lower-paying jobs than they are capable of actually work?

Obviously not. Why? Because men want to have sex with women, and women preferentially want to have sex with high-status men.

If you really want to achieve this "feminist" goal, then it isn't the men you need to convince, it's the women. You need to get the women to prefer sex with under-achieving men. If you can manage that, the men will fall into line quickly enough.

Good luck with that, though. The real saboteurs of the radical feminist agenda isn't the patriarchy, it's other women.
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Old 13th June 2018, 06:33 AM   #71
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Yes, hate men. Try procreating without us. (That ship may have sailed )
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Old 13th June 2018, 06:56 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Senex View Post
Yes, hate men. Try procreating without us. (That ship may have sailed )
There have been a number of feminists who seriously hoped to do exactly this, through egg merging (ie, use one egg's DNA to fertilize another). This had the added advantage (for them) of only producing female babies.
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Old 13th June 2018, 07:04 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
I think she means 'don't be in charge of anything prestigious'.
The problem with that of course is once feminist are put in charge of anything prestigious, the thing tends to lose its prestige. I blame the patriarchy for this.
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Old 13th June 2018, 07:10 AM   #74
Porpoise of Life
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
The problem with that of course is once feminist are put in charge of anything prestigious, the thing tends to lose its prestige. I blame the patriarchy for this.
Tell that to the Queen of England!
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Old 13th June 2018, 07:41 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
You'd have to be remarkably ignorant of modern feminism in order to claim such a thing.

Personally I'm trying to reduce my use of the word "dick". Largely, this takes the form of refraining from insulting people at all.
And?

Seriously why should I take note?
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Old 13th June 2018, 07:48 AM   #76
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I think the real question here is when is it appropriate to blame one person for the actions of a group?

Personally I say never, but in a scary way my opinion is in the minority.

This is why I say the control left is nothing more than left leaning individuals that are trying to find ways to wield the same power religion did 50 years ago.

Sins of the father passed to the son? Check.

Attempts to control peeps sex lives? Check

Demonizing out groups to increase in group cohesion? Check

Belief system built around feelings and belief?check

The problem wasn't who was wielding this much power it is than any one group had it.

It's like these people watched edited versions of movies growing up where instead of the bullies being taken down a peg and people change for the better, the second act was just the picked on kids bullying everyone else.
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Old 13th June 2018, 08:12 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Tell that to the Queen of England!
The queen of England is not actually a feminist. Nor is she actually in charge.

Nor does England have prestige.
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Old 13th June 2018, 10:46 AM   #78
Craig B
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Tell that to the Queen of England!
The "Queen of England" has been married to an unreconstructed patriarch for seventy years.
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Old 13th June 2018, 11:02 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
The problem with that of course is once feminist are put in charge of anything prestigious, the thing tends to lose its prestige. I blame the patriarchy for this.
https://twitter.com/iowahawkblog/sta...631872?lang=en
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
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Old 13th June 2018, 02:15 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
And?

Seriously why should I take note?
Because you might thereby contribute to making the world a better place?
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