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Old 14th November 2018, 01:20 PM   #3361
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The agreement. It's quite long and contains lots of words.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...greement_0.pdf
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Old 14th November 2018, 06:48 PM   #3362
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
The agreement. It's quite long and contains lots of words.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...greement_0.pdf
"Due to planned maintenance, the page you are trying to reach is not available. Sorry for the inconvenience. Please try again later."

How apt.
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Old 15th November 2018, 12:28 AM   #3363
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
The agreement. It's quite long and contains lots of words.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...greement_0.pdf
The gist of it is that UK remains in the EU, it needs to follow all the EU rules but without having a seat at the table when making them. British financial industry will no longer have the position it has within the EU and UK can't make new trade deals until both parties agree on a different kind of future relationship, sometime in the future.

I'm not an expert on the matter, but it seems to me the EU got just about everything it could possibly want from UK and UK got shafted in just about every way it could get shafted.

If Theresa May is trying to stop Brexit then she really did go all in with this one.

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Old 15th November 2018, 12:43 AM   #3364
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
The gist of it is that UK remains in the EU, it needs to follow all the EU rules but without having a seat at the table when making them. British financial industry will no longer have the position it has within the EU and UK can't make new trade deals until both parties agree on a different kind of future relationship, sometime in the future.

I'm not an expert on the matter, but it seems to me the EU got just about everything it could possibly want from UK and UK got shafted in just about every way it could get shafted.

If Theresa May is trying to stop Brexit then she really did go all in with this one.

McHrozni
Where have you downloaded it from, I can't find a working link.
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Old 15th November 2018, 12:51 AM   #3365
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
The gist of it is that UK remains in the EU, it needs to follow all the EU rules but without having a seat at the table when making them. British financial industry will no longer have the position it has within the EU and UK can't make new trade deals until both parties agree on a different kind of future relationship, sometime in the future.

I'm not an expert on the matter, but it seems to me the EU got just about everything it could possibly want from UK and UK got shafted in just about every way it could get shafted.

If Theresa May is trying to stop Brexit then she really did go all in with this one.

McHrozni
Oh, I agree, but this is entirely an own-goal. The EU has changed no rules or operating criteria. It is sad so few remember the days of getting exchange rates to not be manipulated in a common market, then the snake in the tunnel, then the euro to mitigate that, and the need for common fiscal policies that logically flow from that...

The real problem is that far too many, in far too many places, have swallowed gallons and gallons of the libertarian/wingnut Utopian Freedom Gospel, which takes the kind of "freedom" only anarchy can provide as its ideal, while poo-pooing what it would be like to live in Somalia. If I hear another complaint about "unelected Eurocrats" I think my head will burst from so much childish nonsense.
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Old 15th November 2018, 12:59 AM   #3366
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Where have you downloaded it from, I can't find a working link.
Here are two links:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release...18-6423_en.htm

https://www.politico.eu/article/10-t...u-brexit-deal/
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Old 15th November 2018, 01:06 AM   #3367
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https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...777437696.html

FT's Brussels chief skim reads the draft agreement so you don't have to
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Old 15th November 2018, 01:12 AM   #3368
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Originally Posted by Degeneve View Post
They are the summaries.
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Old 15th November 2018, 01:16 AM   #3369
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Donald Tusk's statement:

Quote:
I took good note of Prime Minister May’s statement yesterday. Of course, I don’t share the Prime Minister’s enthusiasm about Brexit as such. Since the very beginning, we have had no doubt that Brexit is a lose-lose situation, and that our negotiations are only about damage control.

Given these extremely difficult circumstances, I would like to thank Michel Barnier and his team, especially Sabine Weyand and Stéphanie Riso, for doing this exceptionally hard work. Michel, we all put a lot of trust in you, and rightly so. You have achieved our two most important objectives. First, you ensured the limitation of the damage caused by Brexit and, second, you secured the vital interests and principles of the 27 member states, and of the European Union as a whole. If I weren’t confident that you did your best to protect the interests of the twenty‑seven, and I am familiar with the essence of the document, I would not propose to formalise this deal.

In the next days, we will proceed as follows. The agreement is now being analysed by all the member states. By the end of this week, the EU27 ambassadors will meet in order to share their assessment of the agreement. I hope that there will not be too many comments. They will also discuss the mandate for the Commission to finalise the Joint Political Declaration about the future relations between the EU and the UK. The European ministers will be involved in this process. The Commission intends to agree the declaration about the future with the UK by Tuesday. Over the following 48 hours, the member states will have time to evaluate it, which means that the EU27 Sherpas should conclude this work on Thursday. Then, if nothing extraordinary happens, we will hold a European Council meeting, in order to finalise and formalise the Brexit agreement. It will take place on Sunday 25th November at 9:30.

Finally, let me say this to our British friends. As much as I am sad to see you leave, I will do everything to make this farewell the least painful possible, both for you and for us.
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Old 15th November 2018, 01:41 AM   #3370
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I wonder how many more of these we will see?
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a3990571.html
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Old 15th November 2018, 01:53 AM   #3371
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Originally Posted by Greebo View Post
I wonder how many more of these we will see?
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a3990571.html
Dominic Raab has just resigned as well.
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Old 15th November 2018, 01:56 AM   #3372
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2 tweets that sum things up
https://twitter.com/GuitarMoog/statu...86655160774658

Quote:
The absurd unicorn-chasing of Brexit shown in a single paragraph of @ShaileshVara’s resignation letter.
-Don’t want hard border
But
-Don’t want NI in different relationship with EU to avoid hard border
-Don’t want UK in a relationship with EU that avoids hard border
Erm, ��*♂️


https://twitter.com/Tupp_Ed/status/1062480248862900229
Quote:
Brexit has been 18 months of watching someone trying to haggle on prices with the automatic scanning machine at a Tesco checkout.
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Old 15th November 2018, 02:05 AM   #3373
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Dominic Raab has just resigned as well.
He probably only just realised he was in cabinet yesterday.
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Old 15th November 2018, 02:24 AM   #3374
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Dominic Raab has just resigned as well.
Is it unique for a government minister to quit in protest at a deal he himself negotiated?
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Old 15th November 2018, 03:05 AM   #3375
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Dominic Raab has just resigned as well.
And Ester McVie

Remind you of a Queen song?


Another one bites the dust
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Old 15th November 2018, 03:13 AM   #3376
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Is it unique for a government minister to quit in protest at a deal he himself negotiated?
Does tell you a lot about how this deal has been done really doesn't it?

The analogy of arguing with an automated teller seems very apt. Then his mum has come along and told him to just shut up and pay what it says and he's stormed off in a huff.
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Old 15th November 2018, 03:17 AM   #3377
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And now Esther McVey has resigned. Probably been looking for an excuse since even her own party is starting to be appalled by the Universal Credit benefit scheme.
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Old 15th November 2018, 03:17 AM   #3378
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
He probably only just realised he was in cabinet yesterday.
That's unfair, it just took all night to read the 4 page summary document. Still he's a faster reader than McVey
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Old 15th November 2018, 03:19 AM   #3379
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It won't get through Parliament anyway. DUP say they will vote against it and so do Labour.
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Old 15th November 2018, 03:27 AM   #3380
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Meanwhile Chief Whip saying "Prime minister won't be bullied and she won't change course"

Also know as putting fingers in ears and saying "La La La"
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Old 15th November 2018, 03:27 AM   #3381
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I know it's not the critical point, but the pagination of the agreement document that I got (from europa.eu) is pretty awful. With page count not being a critical issue, I would have thought that a simple layout would be;

Article 1
para 1.
para 2.
para 3.

-----page break-----

Article 2
para 1.
para 2.
para 3.

-----page break-----

Article 3
para 1.
para 2.
para 3.

but no, they appear to have gone with

Article 1
para 1.
para 2.

-----page break-----

para 3.
Article 2
para 1.
para 2.

-----page break-----

para 3.
Article 3
para 1.
para 2.

-----page break-----

para 3.


It's quite distracting. Maybe that was the point.
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Old 15th November 2018, 03:28 AM   #3382
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
It won't get through Parliament anyway. DUP say they will vote against it and so do Labour.
Have Labour finally found a position they can agree on then?
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Old 15th November 2018, 03:29 AM   #3383
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dup.
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Old 15th November 2018, 04:01 AM   #3384
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
I know it's not the critical point, but the pagination of the agreement document that I got (from europa.eu) is pretty awful.
Hmm the forum keeps trying to do double posts for me today. I get the message about 60 seconds between posts and find my post has gone up anyway. Probably something forced on us by EU regulations.
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Old 15th November 2018, 04:17 AM   #3385
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And Anne-Marie Trevelyan resigns as Parliamentary Private Secretary (PPS) to the Education Ministers to the Prime Minister.

https://twitter.com/annietrev/status...13858921594881
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Old 15th November 2018, 04:19 AM   #3386
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Watching the news again last night it struck me that they are either going out of their way to find the most moronic Brexiteers they can or the average Leave voter can count their braincells in single figures.
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Old 15th November 2018, 04:25 AM   #3387
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One amazing thing is that the PM seems to have achieved the impossible by uniting the country once more - literally everyone thinks her proposal is dog dirt.
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Old 15th November 2018, 04:28 AM   #3388
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Watching the news again last night it struck me that they are either going out of their way to find the most moronic Brexiteers they can or the average Leave voter can count their braincells in single figures.
Evidence that they can count, please?
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Old 15th November 2018, 04:33 AM   #3389
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I don't have Twitter so pinched from another forum

"David Baddiel@Baddiel

I feel I should take the job of Brexit Secretary now.

If only so that when I resign, Theresa May can finally be proved right than No Deal is better than a Baddiel."
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Old 15th November 2018, 04:34 AM   #3390
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
One amazing thing is that the PM seems to have achieved the impossible by uniting the country once more - literally everyone thinks her proposal is dog dirt.
Hey it is far better than I figured would happen with a no deal exit and all that so does that count as good? Driving the car into a wall instead of off a cliff is better after all.
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Old 15th November 2018, 04:41 AM   #3391
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Its a good deal for Ireland, north and south. So I'm pleased with it, or I will be if it passes the HoC.

Doesn't look promising for that though.
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Old 15th November 2018, 04:41 AM   #3392
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Where have you downloaded it from, I can't find a working link.
Fagin's link works for me. It must've been a temporary problem.

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Old 15th November 2018, 04:46 AM   #3393
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Oh, I agree, but this is entirely an own-goal. The EU has changed no rules or operating criteria. It is sad so few remember the days of getting exchange rates to not be manipulated in a common market, then the snake in the tunnel, then the euro to mitigate that, and the need for common fiscal policies that logically flow from that...

The real problem is that far too many, in far too many places, have swallowed gallons and gallons of the libertarian/wingnut Utopian Freedom Gospel, which takes the kind of "freedom" only anarchy can provide as its ideal, while poo-pooing what it would be like to live in Somalia. If I hear another complaint about "unelected Eurocrats" I think my head will burst from so much childish nonsense.
Oh definitely. Theresa May is one of the guilty parties ... unless the end result of this is a cancelled Brexit. She made every possible misstep I can think of.

If I was in her position and wanted to stop Brexit from happening, that's exactly what I'd do - essentially put the ERG in charge, have them negotiate something better than the "worst deal in history" and put it to public review. The statement Dominic Raab made about Dover-Calais being so vital to UK over two years into Brexit clearly shows he's unqualified to work in the government, except maybe as a junior janitor. Who better to put in charge of an affair you want to collapse? A taxidermied monkey could do better, I think.

Whether she's smart enough to do so or this is a result of a perfect series of incompetent missteps is something we still don't know.

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Old 15th November 2018, 04:48 AM   #3394
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Its a good deal for Ireland, north and south. So I'm pleased with it, or I will be if it passes the HoC.

Doesn't look promising for that though.
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Old 15th November 2018, 05:33 AM   #3395
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
Its a good deal for Ireland, north and south. So I'm pleased with it, or I will be if it passes the HoC.

Doesn't look promising for that though.
DUP are against so it isn't going to happen.
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Old 15th November 2018, 06:02 AM   #3396
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From a legal standpoint, can this new deal project be valid and binding for both parties (UK and European Union), even if it is not approved by the British Parliament?
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Old 15th November 2018, 06:50 AM   #3397
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
From a legal standpoint, can this new deal project be valid and binding for both parties (UK and European Union), even if it is not approved by the British Parliament?
I don't think so
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Old 15th November 2018, 07:19 AM   #3398
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
From a legal standpoint, can this new deal project be valid and binding for both parties (UK and European Union), even if it is not approved by the British Parliament?
No. Then it is not ratified and thus not legally binding.
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Old 15th November 2018, 08:23 AM   #3399
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It doesn't need to be 'ratified' but if the PM tries to go ahead without parliament there will be an election.
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Old 15th November 2018, 08:26 AM   #3400
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
No. Then it is not ratified and thus not legally binding.
PM can sign any treaty, it's part of the sovereign powers.


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Posted By:zooterkin
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