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Tags Brilliant Light Power , free energy , Randell Mills

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Old Yesterday, 08:35 AM   #1641
Red Baron Farms
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post

At least until the next new marketer of free energy came to us
Photosynthesis Have I got a deal for you. Where one seed can bring a return of 10, 100, even 1000 times; and so far the government hasn't figured out how to tax the sun.
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Old Yesterday, 09:41 AM   #1642
Aepervius
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
Photosynthesis Have I got a deal for you. Where one seed can bring a return of 10, 100, even 1000 times; and so far the government hasn't figured out how to tax the sun.
Nah they don't need to : they just tax the ground, and have law on what can be grown.
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Old Yesterday, 12:40 PM   #1643
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To comment on a single, specific matter, namely << N.B. Publishing is a wide variety of inappropriate journals is a hint of dubious papers. Scientists working in a field tend to publish in a few journals devoted to that field. Over 15 different journals mostly inappropriate suggests selecting journals who may not have appropriate peer reviewers or "journal shopping" - submitting a paper to journal after journal until it is accepted.>>

When the AGS was being designed at Brookhaven, the common technique, as used in the Bevatron at Berkeley, required a very large vacuum chamber. Then, the idea of strong focussing was invented. This used the equivalent of an optical guiding system, in that alternate convex and concave lenses would permit a tight beam to be guided. The analog for proton accelerators uses magnetic fields, and there, a gradient might focus in the vertical plane and defocus in the horizontal plane, while the opposite gradient would do the reverse. This made it possible to design a much cheaper machine, with a fairly small vacuum chamber section. The idea was taken up at the newly-founded CERN lab, for their own proton synchrotron, and is used to this day in machines such as the LHC.
Now, my point is, that the idea had been invented a while before, by a clever guy who could not get it published in the appropriate places, and it was published in a journal specialising in (English) lifts, or (US) elevators. You would not find a less appropriate journal too easily. Sometimes the author has to publish where publication is accepted, and that is because reviewers often do not understand new ideas, and papers are therefore restricted to polishing up known topics.
I'll leave the rest of the fight to Markie!
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Old Yesterday, 01:54 PM   #1644
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I found a suitable Journal.



Last edited by Agatha; Yesterday at 04:39 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 03:56 PM   #1645
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Markie, I've got an idea (and a bit of a one-sided wager). You can present it to Mill's as you own, I have no need for credit, and it will give him an instant Noble prize and all the money he could want.

1: Collect some hydrino gas. Should be easy for him, he produces it constantly right? And even if it diffused twice as fast as helium, you can keep helium in a glass bubble for decades, so containers are not an issue.
2: Send samples to laboratories that have access to an NMR device. Now, NMR can determine that the gas contains hydrogen atoms as NMR detects the proton of the nucleus and not the electrons. It should either find atomic hydrogen (if hydrinos are as unreactive as helium) or H2 gas (if hydrinos only react with each other) with a shorter bond length than possible
3: Mix the gas with oxygen and try to ignite. By your theories this should do nothing since hydrinos do not react.

That will give clear, reproducible, measurable evidence that Mills has a gas containing hydrogen atoms that do not react in a way known to current science. Just send it to 10 labs or so which will maybe cost $10000? and he's in the money for ever.
No more need for small companies. No more need for unclear youtubes and fringe meetings. It might even open up TWO nobel prizes. For chemistry and physics as he'd revolutionize two fields.
I am a bit surpised he's never thought of this simple experiment himself, but here you go.

Now, once this is done and the results published (which would be Science and / or Nature headline material immediately) I will personally fly to whatever country you live in, buy you a meal and publicly admit I was wrong about Mills.
No need to wait on a working prototype either, this could be done in less than 2 weeks or so.


Some good ideas. Let me first say that ideas of this type have been discussed before on Mill's forum. Differential diffusion rates between, say, hydrogen gas and dihydrino gas would serve to somewhat isolate the dihydrino gas, and it's properties distinguished from normal H2, such as (lack of) combustion, different conductivity, different boiling point, and so on. I don't know why this particular route has not been taken. But other routes have been taken to characterized dihydrino gas and also hydrino hydride. For instance here's a portion of the abstract taken from

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...6031990700198X


Quote:
Comprehensive identification and potential applications of new states of hydrogen

Randell L. Mills, , Jiliang He, Ying Lu, Mark Nansteel, Zhixiang Chang, Bala Dhandapani
BlackLight Power, Inc., 493 Old Trenton Road, Cranbury, NJ 08512, USA
Received 30 March 2007, Accepted 31 March 2007, Available online 25 May 2007


Two H(1/p) may react to form H2(1/p) that have vibrational and rotational energies that are p^2 times those of H2 comprising uncatalyzed atomic hydrogen. Rotational lines were observed in the 145–300 nm region from atmospheric pressure electron-beam excited argon–hydrogen plasmas. The unprecedented energy spacing of 4^2 times that of hydrogen established the internuclear distance as 1/4 that of H2 and identified as H2(1/4). The predicted products of alkali catalyst K are H-(1/4) which form a novel alkali halido hydride compound MH*X and H2(1/4) which may be trapped in the crystal. The 1H MAS NMR spectrum of novel compound KH*Cl relative to external tetramethylsilane (TMS) showed a large distinct upfield resonance at -4.4 ppm corresponding to an absolute resonance shift of -35.9ppm that matched the theoretical prediction of H-(1/p) with p=4. The predicted catalyst reactions, position of the upfield-shifted NMR peaks for H-(1/4), and spectroscopic data for H-(1/4) were found to be in agreement with the experimental observations as well as previously reported analysis of KH*Cl containing this hydride ion.

The fact is, you and others apparently simply don't believe this kind of result, and others like it. Personally, on the whole, I find the collection of results like these compelling.
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Old Yesterday, 04:02 PM   #1646
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Some good ideas. Let me first say that ideas of this type have been discussed before on Mill's forum. Differential diffusion rates between, say, hydrogen gas and dihydrino gas would serve to somewhat isolate the dihydrino gas, and it's properties distinguished from normal H2, such as (lack of) combustion, different conductivity, different boiling point, and so on. I don't know why this particular route has not been taken. But other routes have been taken to characterized dihydrino gas and also hydrino hydride. For instance here's a portion of the abstract taken from

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...6031990700198X





The fact is, you and others apparently simply don't believe this kind of result, and others like it. Personally, on the whole, I find the collection of results like these compelling.
No,no,no. You miss the point. It has to be a very simple demonstration, it has to be unambiguous, and it has to be carried out by an independent and highly respected physics lab. Why not just do what LS suggested? Seems irrefutable to me. And then the Nobel prize and the fame and the funding that makes the few tens of millions so far scraped by Mills seem like chicken feed. Only works if hydrinos actually exist though.
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Old Yesterday, 04:23 PM   #1647
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Originally Posted by hecd2 View Post
No,no,no. You miss the point. It has to be a very simple demonstration, it has to be unambiguous, and it has to be carried out by an independent and highly respected physics lab. Why not just do what LS suggested? Seems irrefutable to me. And then the Nobel prize and the fame and the funding that makes the few tens of millions so far scraped by Mills seem like chicken feed. Only works if hydrinos actually exist though.
You'll probably have to wait for your 'unambiguous' demonstration. Mills and company appear to be preoccupied with other matters right now, like building the SunCell.
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Old Yesterday, 04:57 PM   #1648
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Brilliant Light Power Going To Market - Free Energy Generator

Originally Posted by markie View Post
You'll probably have to wait for your 'unambiguous' demonstration. Mills and company appear to be preoccupied with other matters right now, like building the SunCell.


They've been "preoccupied" with building an alleged generator for close to 30 years. It might be time to go for some basic hard proofs of the theory to bring in some fresh people.

They need all the help they can get.

Last edited by halleyscomet; Yesterday at 05:00 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 06:30 PM   #1649
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I found this part of the abstract to which markie provided a link most, um, interesting: "Novel emission lines ... were previously observed. These lines matched H(1/p), fractional Rydberg states of atomic hydrogen ...".
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Old Yesterday, 07:07 PM   #1650
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
I found this part of the abstract to which markie provided a link most, um, interesting: "Novel emission lines ... were previously observed. These lines matched H(1/p), fractional Rydberg states of atomic hydrogen ...".


So the Mills research boils down to an externally powered reactor using liquid silver in a graphite sphere to destroy water and produce Hydrogen.

But Mills insists it's special hydrogen, although he has apparently never produced any hard evidence to support that claim.

It's like he read up on homeopathy and thought, "how can I adapt this to physics?"
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Old Yesterday, 07:35 PM   #1651
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
You'll probably have to wait for your 'unambiguous' demonstration. Mills and company appear to be preoccupied with other matters right now, like building the SunCell Potemkin village.
Seems closer to the truth to me.
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Old Yesterday, 07:36 PM   #1652
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
I found this part of the abstract to which markie provided a link most, um, interesting: "Novel emission lines ... were previously observed. These lines matched H(1/p), fractional Rydberg states of atomic hydrogen ...".
Since all the spectral lines according to Rydberg's formula to a fractional state below ground are below 30 nm, I wonder how Mills detected them. For that matter, how is Mills shielding for Xray emissions?
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Old Yesterday, 08:01 PM   #1653
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
You'll probably have to wait for your 'unambiguous' demonstration. Mills and company appear to be preoccupied with other matters right now, like building the SunCell.
Like the one they promised 26 years ago? That would be in commercial production within months?

Or do you mean the latest iteration? That will be in commercial production within months?

Or do you refer to the 1995, 1999 version, 2001 version, 2005 version, 2009 version, etc. Which one is it that is mere months away?
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Old Yesterday, 08:17 PM   #1654
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Inquire away. Do all the studies you need. Just because I happen to believe that dihydrino gas is entirely inert and not harmful doesn't mean I think assessments shouldn't be done. They certainly should.

You'll be glad to hear I've taken your advice, and conduced a dihydrino safety study using an animal model.

Method: Due to the unavailability of dihydrino gas samples to test, and the lack of a consensus on whether or not it's even possible to direct a flow of the gas to a test subject, the only feasible test protocol was to induce hydrino creation in situ within the rats themselves. Accordingly, each rat in the test group was directly exposed to several hundred amps of low-voltage current delivered via two streams of molten silver within a paradoxically well-ventilated vacuum chamber. All the rats were in a normally hydrated condition at ignition, thus providing all of the necessary conditions for the production of hydrino from aqueous hydrogen.

Results: Alarmingly, the mortality in the test rats was 100%, an increase by a factor of approximately infinity compared to control rats that were isolated from hydrino particles by an impenetrable barrier of lawyers. Post mortem examination was unable to isolate the specific cause of death (or any identifiable residue) but disruption of the enzymatic conversion of TDP-4-Oxo-6-deoxyglucose into TDP-rhamnos is a possibility.

Conclusion: To reach any final conclusion it's necessary to eliminate the alternative possibility that it was the molten silver and/or the massive arcing current, rather than the hydrino particles themselves, that caused the mortality. This is amply accomplished by noting that five of the test rats emitted, at the moment of ignition, death squeaks that, according to the mathematical models presented in a 978-page unpublished un-peer-reviewed book on mammalian physics written by yours truly, were at frequencies consistent with the effects of lethal hydrino toxicity and inconsistent with any other possible cause of death whatsoever. The evidence that hydrino toxicity killed the rats is therefore every bit as strong as the evidence that hydrino production causes the heat and light in Mills's cells.

I will not be releasing the full confirmatory details or documentation of my study pending the editorial review of the paper I've submitted to Science. Due to the public safety significance of the findings and (if I do say so myself) the quality of the work, I am optimistic about its acceptance. This would only be the second paper of mine to see publication in Science so despite the apparent setback to the nascent hydrino-based energy industry, I'm excited by the results and am grateful to markie for suggesting this course of research.
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Old Today, 12:02 AM   #1655
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
You'll probably have to wait for your 'unambiguous' demonstration. Mills and company appear to be preoccupied with other matters right now, like building the SunCell.
They've been failing at that for 30+ years or so now.
This would secure a line of finance unheard of, plus the service of actual competent engineers, which are sorely needed given the appalling design choices pointed out so far (like not using the heat to drive a steam generator).

Also, your actual knowledge of chemistry does seem very limited. Why bother working with 'differential diffusion rates'?
Hydrogen gas reacts. If you want to remove it from a mixture put a match to it.
If you don't want that, bubble it trough dry hexene or another alkene and it will react away as well.

Of course I know Mills will never do this <1 month experiment that will cost insignificant amounts of time and money, as hydrino's do not exist and that will ruin his scam. It's a lot harder to fool people with a clean, reproducible experiment than with fuzzy youtubes and the rape of scientific language and terms he uses to dazzle laymen with money.
But I keep hoping I am wrong, it would open so many fascinating fields. After all, a lower orbital would exist in ALL elements, so who knows what would have been possible if that existed.
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Old Today, 01:29 AM   #1656
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
They've been failing at that for 30+ years or so now.
This would secure a line of finance unheard of, plus the service of actual competent engineers, which are sorely needed given the appalling design choices pointed out so far (like not using the heat to drive a steam generator).

Also, your actual knowledge of chemistry does seem very limited. Why bother working with 'differential diffusion rates'?
Hydrogen gas reacts. If you want to remove it from a mixture put a match to it.
If you don't want that, bubble it trough dry hexene or another alkene and it will react away as well.

Of course I know Mills will never do this <1 month experiment that will cost insignificant amounts of time and money, as hydrino's do not exist and that will ruin his scam. It's a lot harder to fool people with a clean, reproducible experiment than with fuzzy youtubes and the rape of scientific language and terms he uses to dazzle laymen with money.
But I keep hoping I am wrong, it would open so many fascinating fields. After all, a lower orbital would exist in ALL elements, so who knows what would have been possible if that existed.

Of course 'putting a match to it' would entail the introduction of oxygen, which rather defeats the purpose of isolation. And yeah my differential diffusion rate is rather lame, considering that Mills uses a much better approach, as seen in the same abstract:


Quote:
H2(1/p) gas was isolated by liquefaction of plasma gas at liquid nitrogen temperature and by decomposition of compounds (MH*X) found to contain the corresponding hydride ions H-(1/p). The H2(1/p) gas was dissolved in CDCl3 and characterized by 1H NMR.

As you can see it appears that hydrino plasma gas can be liquified by liquid nitrogen of all things, so appears to have a much higher liquid - vapour critical point than ordinary hydrogen gas. Good to know.
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Old Today, 01:36 AM   #1657
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Originally Posted by jsfisher View Post
Since all the spectral lines according to Rydberg's formula to a fractional state below ground are below 30 nm, I wonder how Mills detected them. For that matter, how is Mills shielding for Xray emissions?

Grazing edge spectrometer I presume. Also, EUV and soft X-rays (as produced by hydrino formation) are readily stopped by air if I recall. Hard x-rays are different and are penetrating but are not generated by hydrino formation.
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Old Today, 01:49 AM   #1658
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From another abstract at http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1....3142/abstract
Mills and company used a number of different methods to identify H2(1/4) dihydrino gas from their previous energy producing device, the CIHT cell:

Quote:
Catalyst Induced Hydrino Transition (CIHT) electrochemical cell
Authors Randell L Mills, Xingwen Yu, Ying Lu, Gaosheng Chu, Jiliang He, John Lotoski
First published: 20 December 2013

(snip)

The predicted molecular hydrino H2(1/4) was identified as a product of CIHT cells and solid fuels by MAS 1H NMR, ToF-SIMS, ESI-ToFMS, electron-beam excitation emission spectroscopy, Raman spectroscopy, photoluminescence emission spectroscopy, FTIR, and XPS.
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Old Today, 01:52 AM   #1659
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
I found this part of the abstract to which markie provided a link most, um, interesting: "Novel emission lines ... were previously observed. These lines matched H(1/p), fractional Rydberg states of atomic hydrogen ...".
You may be confusing 'Rydberg states" with Rydberg matter.
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