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Old 28th February 2020, 09:27 AM   #281
The Great Zaganza
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The problem for Trump is that any honest answer about the Virus right now is: "we don't know".
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Old 28th February 2020, 09:29 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
12,000 – 61,000 flu deaths annually since 2010 per CDC. ....... coronavirus 0 deaths
Yes, the flu currently causes many more deaths than the covid-19. However:

- Covid-19 is a new disease that has emerged within the past year. At this point, its possible that the low death toll is simply due to the fact that it hasn't had the time to spread
- While nobody has died in the united states, the mortality rate for the virus appears to be 20 times higher than for the flu in other parts of the world.
- Its currently a disease for which there are no vaccines, and for which there is no natural immunity in the population.
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Old 28th February 2020, 09:33 AM   #283
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I find it disturbing, irresponsible, and childish that people are politicizing this in such a fashion. If you don't buy into the panic you're supporting Trump? That's ridiculous. As ridiculous as painting the disease as totally insignificant in order to defend Trump. It's a disease. We've had them before, we know how these events go. This isn't unique in history or medicine or politics. Yes, politics are very interesting. But they don't need to dominate our approach to every event that occurs, especially when so doing inhibits proper response to the event.
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Old 28th February 2020, 09:37 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I find it disturbing, irresponsible, and childish that people are politicizing this in such a fashion. If you don't buy into the panic you're supporting Trump? That's ridiculous. As ridiculous as painting the disease as totally insignificant in order to defend Trump. It's a disease. We've had them before, we know how these events go. This isn't unique in history or medicine or politics. Yes, politics are very interesting. But they don't need to dominate our approach to every event that occurs, especially when so doing inhibits proper response to the event.
I agree that panic is unnecessary, but concern - particularly with this administration at the helm - is certainly warranted.
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Old 28th February 2020, 09:37 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post

He even said there might be a miracle.

Quote:
"It's going to disappear. One day it's like a miracle, it will disappear," Trump said at the White House Thursday as the virus marched across Asia and Europe after US officials said the US should brace for severe disruption to everyday life.
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Old 28th February 2020, 09:41 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
Quote:
Trump told the nation that this problem will just "go away"
He even said there might be a miracle.
Quote:
"It's going to disappear. One day it's like a miracle, it will disappear," Trump said...
You see, that's why he put a christian fundamentalist like Pence in charge of the Coronavirus response... because he can talk to god to get that miracle.
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Old 28th February 2020, 09:44 AM   #287
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Sure the media is doing it's "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE" routine same as they did with... list too long to bother typing out at this point let's just say "Every new disease ever."

That doesn't mean the response to said thing from a known idiot is nothing to worry about.
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Old 28th February 2020, 09:53 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It's a disease. We've had them before, we know how these events go. This isn't unique in history or medicine or politics. Yes, politics are very interesting. But they don't need to dominate our approach to every event that occurs, especially when so doing inhibits proper response to the event.
The difference between us having them before and having them now is the people in charge of those responses. We had hurricanes before, that didn't make the response and the stupidity of the Bush Administration any less severe. Which is the subject of this thread, right? The response and how it will be used.

The response to this virus is both extremely concerning and profoundly insufficient....but hey! At least no one's dead in the US yet! /celebrate
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Old 28th February 2020, 10:02 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Wouldn't it be ironic if both he and Pence get it, buy the farm, and Pelosi becomes President?
I believe the first four in the line of succession are all well over 70.

Originally Posted by dann View Post
Fanatic??? Remember that they have been denial until now, and in this situation many of them will need to see him as a savior more than ever.
I did mean fantastic, but you got the drift of what I was saying - they will see him as a coward for not being out there in solidarity with them.

Originally Posted by dann View Post
Puerto Ricans???
Yeah, definitely not Haitians. Wasn't worth checking, so thanks.

Originally Posted by dann View Post
He may come to regret after all that fastfood workers usually. aren't paid very much and can't afford to stay home if they feel ill.
I'd think he'd have a chef in house who isn't allowed to leave who can cook it for him.
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Old 28th February 2020, 10:03 AM   #290
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An actual conversation that just took place:
Quote:
Brian Kilmeade: And so now we're getting to sprint towards November for -- to -- to see if your dad can get four more years. Are you surprised the way they've been handling the coronavirus situation, meaning Democrats?

Don Jr.: Not at all. I mean, we've seen -- like you said, we've seen this play out for four years. Anything that they can use to try to hurt Trump, they will. Anything he does in a positive sense, like you heard from the reporter that was just suspended from ABC, they will not give him credit for. The playbook is old at this point.

But for them to try to take a pandemic and seemingly hope that it comes here, and kills millions of people so that they could end Donald Trump's streak of winning, is a new level of sickness. You know, I don't know if this is coronavirus or Trump derangement syndrome, but these people are infected badly.

But remember everyone, it's the Democrats who are politicizing this.
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Old 28th February 2020, 10:30 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
An actual conversation that just took place:



But remember everyone, it's the Democrats who are politicizing this.
They are but they are not alone.
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Old 28th February 2020, 10:32 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
The response to this virus is both extremely concerning and profoundly insufficient....but hey! At least no one's dead in the US yet! /celebrate
What part of the actual response do you feel is profoundly insufficient?
What do you feel should have been done instead?
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Old 28th February 2020, 10:33 AM   #293
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It's hard not to politicize this, given how Obama dealt with Ebola.
Trump had the perfect Infrastructure to deal with Corona, and he threw it away because it came from Obama.

Trump made this public health crisis political in 2017.
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Old 28th February 2020, 10:34 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
What part of the actual response do you feel is profoundly insufficient?
What do you feel should have been done instead?
Asked and answered.

Now I'll ask a question. How do you feel it was handled properly? Do you think anything could have been handled better?
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Old 28th February 2020, 10:34 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Trump told the nation that this problem will just "go away" and he and his administration spread misinformation and falsehoods about the potential dangers of the virus.

So to answer your question "What should be done that isn't being done?" my response is, at the very least, Trump and his administration should stop lying to the American people about what's happening.

Do you disagree?
I agree there should be no lying to the American people about what is happening.
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Old 28th February 2020, 10:36 AM   #296
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Watching Trump when he talked about the "miracle", made me realize that his insanity can still make me laugh and leaves me feeling that it is all surreal, scratching my head, thinking 'is this for real'?

Oh, and does it make me a bad person for hoping Trump and Pence come down with the virus? Really asking for a friend . . .
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Old 28th February 2020, 10:38 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I find it disturbing, irresponsible, and childish that people are politicizing this in such a fashion. If you don't buy into the panic you're supporting Trump? That's ridiculous. As ridiculous as painting the disease as totally insignificant in order to defend Trump. It's a disease. We've had them before, we know how these events go. This isn't unique in history or medicine or politics. Yes, politics are very interesting. But they don't need to dominate our approach to every event that occurs, especially when so doing inhibits proper response to the event.
But don't you like disturbing, irresponsible, and childish?
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Old 28th February 2020, 10:45 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
What part of the actual response do you feel is profoundly insufficient?
What do you feel should have been done instead?
Not the person that was asked, but my answer:

- Put someone other than Pence in charge. Someone with a background in medicine (or at least someone who's not anti-science enough to believe in creationism).

- Acknowledge that the cuts to the CDC and tp the National Security Council that dealt with medical issues were a mistake and reverse them immediately

- Quit trying to claim that its some sort of conspiracy to make Trump look bad.

- Provide accurate data (unlike when trump tried to contradict a doctor by giving him wrong data about the spread of Covid19 in the states, or comparisons with influenza.) And don't suppress information either.
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Old 28th February 2020, 10:53 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Asked and answered.

Now I'll ask a question. How do you feel it was handled properly?

Quote:
Do you think anything could have been handled better?
I wondered why we didn't remove those American passengers before. Maybe there were logistics involved or maybe international questions. Apparently it worked out and has little to do with the overall spread of the virus and what damage that virus will do

Why weren't more testing capabilities available maybe. But do we really know what is involved in securing tests for a new virus?
There was a problem with some initial tests released apparently.
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Old 28th February 2020, 11:05 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
The problem for Trump is that any honest answer about the Virus right now is: "we don't know".
Is that true? The media love to talk about "mysterious" viruses. They were using that language for HIV for years after it became clear how the virus spread. It's true that novel viruses are all mysteries in the sense that it's hard to tell how and why they become established in human populations. With HIV, it took a while for people to accept that casual contact was not a risk factor. Of course, that does not seem to be the case with this coronavirus, which makes the new bug scarier in one sense.

I have no special knowledge but from what I've read, in general epidemiologists often find a lot of stuff out very quickly. I am not saying soft-pedal the danger, but also be aware of what is being discovered.

At first I didn't fault Trump for his optimistic statements, but the "miracle" BS rubs me he wrong way. My hope is that Trump's hostility to the CDC has not been enough to seriously compromise the agency's mission. Pence can look concerned and offer prayers, as long as he doesn't get in the way, and Trump should shut his fat gob for a change and let experts do their jobs.

Last edited by Minoosh; 28th February 2020 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 28th February 2020, 11:08 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
But don't you like disturbing, irresponsible, and childish?
What's this about?
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Old 28th February 2020, 11:27 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Watching Trump when he talked about the "miracle", made me realize that his insanity can still make me laugh and leaves me feeling that it is all surreal, scratching my head, thinking 'is this for real'?

Oh, and does it make me a bad person for hoping Trump and Pence come down with the virus? Really asking for a friend . . .

I see that he said like a miracle instead of a miracle...

Quote:
"It's going to disappear. One day it's like a miracle, it will disappear," Trump said...
It's being used as a figure of speech. It's not a suggestion that it would be a miracle - which is an act of God or paranormal or supernatural.
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Old 28th February 2020, 11:31 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
But remember everyone, it's the Democrats who are politicizing this.
He is one sick little puppy that boy.

You have to admit, the apples didn't fall far from the tree with his kids.
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Old 28th February 2020, 11:35 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I see that he said like a miracle instead of a miracle...



It's being used as a figure of speech. It's not a suggestion that it would be a miracle - which is an act of God or paranormal or supernatural.
Consider his usual audience, though. I suggest they are primed to believe in miracles - and distrust any so-called "science."

Nope, this does not make what Trump said better.
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Old 28th February 2020, 11:38 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
What's this about?
Just a joke because I thought (maybe wrongly) the tragic monkey liked to make silly comments.
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Old 28th February 2020, 11:41 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Consider his usual audience, though. I suggest they are primed to believe in miracles - and distrust any so-called "science."

Nope, this does not make what Trump said better.
You are talking about religious people who think that God is running the show and can do miracles. Those same people are also Democrats for sure.

But he would be insulting the deeply religious people when he says like a miracle - instead of a miracle.
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Old 28th February 2020, 11:43 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
They are but they are not alone.
Examples, please.
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Old 28th February 2020, 11:45 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Quote:
The problem for Trump is that any honest answer about the Virus right now is: "we don't know".
Is that true?
Yes, its true.

We do know some things, but there is still a lot that is unknown, such as:
- The actual incubation period. It is likely 14 days, but that needs some confirmation
- how infectious the disease is before people become symptomatic
- how common it is for people to show no symptoms at all throughout the disease
- Its likely that the virus is spread between people through water droplets in the air and on surfaces, but we don't know if those are the only mechanisms
- How long the virus remains viable when its on a surface
Quote:
With HIV, it took a while for people to accept that casual contact was not a risk factor. Of course, that does not seem to be the case with this coronavirus, which makes the new bug scarier in one sense.
Well, science has progressed since the first AIDS cases. Especially the ability to sequence genes. Plus, the number of people with HIV infections in those early days was relatively small, which makes epidemiology difficult.
Quote:
I have no special knowledge but from what I've read, in general epidemiologists often find a lot of stuff out very quickly. I am not saying soft-pedal the danger, but also be aware of what is being discovered.
Epidemiologists do know a bit about the Coronavirus. But, remember we're only a couple of months into things... not that much time to learn everything.

Plus, some of the countries that are currently dealing with Covid19 (China and Iran) are notoriously tight-lipped when it comes to discussing internal issues.
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Old 28th February 2020, 11:46 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
I agree there should be no lying to the American people about what is happening.
And yet Trump and his administration are doing exactly that.

Are you beginning to see the problem?
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Old 28th February 2020, 11:46 AM   #310
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I'm a lifelong atheist and would never vote for Trump. But I know what he means when he uses the figure of speech "like a miracle". I've used it myself. I've also used "like magic".

Though I don't know if it's actually accurate because I don't know if all virus outbreaks "end" with a miraculous suddenness.
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Old 28th February 2020, 11:50 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I see that he said like a miracle instead of a miracle...

It's being used as a figure of speech. It's not a suggestion that it would be a miracle - which is an act of God or paranormal or supernatural.
Even if it is a figure of speech, it's still a wildly irresponsible thing for the president to be saying that a pandemic-level virus for which there are currently no treatments will just "disappear".
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Old 28th February 2020, 11:53 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Even if it is a figure of speech, it's still a wildly irresponsible thing for the president to be saying that a pandemic-level virus for which there are currently no treatments will just "disappear".
I agree. I think he is handling it in an amateur way suggesting that he is a newbie at doing politics. I don't like it.
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Old 28th February 2020, 11:53 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Even if it is a figure of speech, it's still a wildly irresponsible thing for the president to be saying that a pandemic-level virus for which there are currently no treatments will just "disappear".
He's probably internally thinking of polio and smallpox.

"You know, many years ago, so many people had polio, so many people had smallpox. Many many people. Now you never hear about that any more. What happened? It's like a miracle that they just disappeared and now we don't have to worry about it any more."
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Old 28th February 2020, 11:55 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I'm a lifelong atheist and would never vote for Trump. But I know what he means when he uses the figure of speech "like a miracle". I've used it myself. I've also used "like magic".
Did you use those terms in the context of making baseless claims about a life-and-death subject of which you are woefully ignorant in your role as leader of the free world?
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Old 28th February 2020, 12:06 PM   #315
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A whistleblower has come forwards stating that due to incompetence and going against the advice of the CDC the Trump administration may have facilitated the spread of the virus. For taking her complaints up the chain of command she was threatened with termination and reassigned. Officials tried to cover it up, including seemingly trying to mislead Congress.
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Old 28th February 2020, 12:17 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Did you use those terms in the context of making baseless claims about a life-and-death subject of which you are woefully ignorant in your role as leader of the free world?
I've never been POTUS but thanks for asking.
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Old 28th February 2020, 12:23 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
And yet Trump and his administration are doing exactly that.

Are you beginning to see the problem?
If I agreed they were lying to the American people yes. Trump does say a lot of things he shouldn’t. When did he say it would disappear and what was the whole context.
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Old 28th February 2020, 12:31 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I've never been POTUS but thanks for asking.
Just thought I'd double-check.

Do you then see the distinction between a random person using this verbiage in a casual conversation and the President of the United States using it in a press conference about a potential pandemic threat?
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Old 28th February 2020, 12:33 PM   #319
johnny karate
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
If I agreed they were lying to the American people yes. Trump does say a lot of things he shouldn’t. When did he say it would disappear and what was the whole context.
Okay, great.

But you keep asking people what they think should be done differently.

Are you now satisfied that this is something that should be done differently and that the resulting criticisms are therefore fair?
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Old 28th February 2020, 12:36 PM   #320
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Just thought I'd double-check.

Do you then see the distinction between a random person using this verbiage in a casual conversation and the President of the United States using it in a press conference about a potential pandemic threat?
Your answer is already in post #312.
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