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Tags David Gilroy , murder cases , Scotland cases

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Old 6th November 2015, 10:46 PM   #241
anglolawyer
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I think he has a lawyer, although I'm not 100% sure. There is a flaw in your reasoning. You seem to be assuming what is not in evidence, that it is not possible in Scotland to find a lawyer who is not self-respecting.

No, he doesn't intend to prove where he was. He hopes (I believe) to prove that he wasn't in the Rest And Be Thankful area. Thus (he hopes) introducing sufficient reasonable doubt to overturn the conviction, as the police represented to the court that he had been in the Rest And Be Thankful area (where he had no cause to be on the route he was taking) and so this was where he'd stashed the body. If he knows he wasn't there, he may be smarting at the injustice of the conviction on that account, even if he was actually burying her somewhere in Glen Aray.

I think he hopes to achieve disclosure of a load more CCTV and phone records, and then he hopes to trawl through these for discrepancies and anomalies that might support his case.

Bear in mind this is just a guess. I think it's something along those lines but I might be wrong.
That's going to be some appeal - your guess about where I stashed the body is wrong! Neener, neener.

Quote:
(By the way, did you ever read the Lockerbie judgement as you said you were going to?)
Gulp.
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Old 7th November 2015, 01:21 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
Where does the info come from about these points of his?
Did you manage to find said website ??
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Old 7th November 2015, 01:23 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
That's going to be some appeal - your guess about where I stashed the body is wrong! Neener, neener.

It would still be marginally better than his first one, at that. He could simply be hoping for an acquittal on nothing more than the mere fact of non-disclosure. Seriously, have you read the first appeal? He should have been censured for wasting the court's time.
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Old 7th November 2015, 01:36 AM   #244
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Yep ive followed the case from the offset and never had any doubts he is guilty , I think you are right in saying he is pinning all hopes on non disclosure , hopefully the sccrc are simply going through the motions ,they must think bringing an ex mp into will carry weight , just another clutch at straws, his lawyers must be loving it though .
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Old 7th November 2015, 02:04 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
It would still be marginally better than his first one, at that. He could simply be hoping for an acquittal on nothing more than the mere fact of non-disclosure. Seriously, have you read the first appeal? He should have been censured for wasting the court's time.
Yes, I read that one. I may even have posted it here.
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Old 7th November 2015, 02:05 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Did you manage to find said website ??
'Said' website?
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Old 7th November 2015, 07:34 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
'Said' website?
yep ,, its a legal term
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Old 7th November 2015, 11:14 PM   #248
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Ok , so if and when the sccrc do tell him where to go , is that it ? or does he have more time wasting bites at the cherry , the echr perhaps ?
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Old 8th November 2015, 01:42 AM   #249
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I suppose everyone has access to the ECHR.

Judging by his past form, his preferred strategy is to try to plead procedural technicalities. He wants to show that the prosecution didn't follow the strict rules in some respect or another, and thus claim that they haven't proved their case against him. Whether he'd try to take that as far as the ECHR I don't know.

He's not interested in providing an explanation for what he was doing that day. Only in claiming that the case against him hasn't been proved beyond reasonable doubt.
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Old 8th November 2015, 02:26 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
yep ,, its a legal term
no, I was asking what web-site you were talking about. Sorry to be obscure.
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Old 8th November 2015, 03:00 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I suppose everyone has access to the ECHR.

Judging by his past form, his preferred strategy is to try to plead procedural technicalities. He wants to show that the prosecution didn't follow the strict rules in some respect or another, and thus claim that they haven't proved their case against him. Whether he'd try to take that as far as the ECHR I don't know.

He's not interested in providing an explanation for what he was doing that day. Only in claiming that the case against him hasn't been proved beyond reasonable doubt.
Yeah well the case quite compelling , but just a question of did the crown cheat to get such a case
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Old 8th November 2015, 03:34 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
no, I was asking what web-site you were talking about. Sorry to be obscure.
http://www.gilroyfamily.info/
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Old 8th November 2015, 05:45 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Thanks. I noticed this:

David somewhat reluctantly saw Suzanne over the early May 2010 Bank Holiday weekend. On Monday 3rd May 2010 David left Suzanne in a way that he thought drew a final line on their friendship as far as they were both concerned. She attempted further contact with him by text and phone following his departure. He continued to make it clear that was it, switching off his phone. He went home. Andrea and David agreed to continue with their attempts to try and find a way forward together. The next day Suzanne went missing.

I wonder what these messages of hers said and what time she sent them. How would switching off his phone make his position clear?
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Old 8th November 2015, 06:19 AM   #254
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I don't think any of that is substantiated by the phone records. Part of the case against Gilroy was that he was bombarding Suzanne with texts right up till the time she disappared, but not after that.
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Old 8th November 2015, 06:31 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I don't think any of that is substantiated by the phone records. Part of the case against Gilroy was that he was bombarding Suzanne with texts right up till the time she disappared, but not after that.
I know but this is the family's counter. That he was trying to break it off and it was her sending him messages. So I wondered what these messages of hers said. If it was 'can't we give it another go?' great! If it was 'please get lost' that wouldn't be so good.
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Old 8th November 2015, 07:24 AM   #256
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The web site is PR. I doubt if there's a word of truth in it.
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Old 8th November 2015, 07:28 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The web site is PR. I doubt if there's a word of truth in it.
Couldn't agree more , just trying to drum up support for him , canny see it happening
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Old 8th November 2015, 07:41 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The web site is PR. I doubt if there's a word of truth in it.
Id say its more like BS than PR ?
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Old 8th November 2015, 07:51 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
I know but this is the family's counter. That he was trying to break it off and it was her sending him messages. So I wondered what these messages of hers said. If it was 'can't we give it another go?' great! If it was 'please get lost' that wouldn't be so good.

She had a new lover-boy. Mark someone. She slept with him in his house the night before she disappeared.
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Old 8th November 2015, 08:11 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
She had a new lover-boy. Mark someone. She slept with him in his house the night before she disappeared.
Yes, but you know how flighty women are ....

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Old 8th November 2015, 09:24 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
Yes, but you know how flighty women are ....

Just the kind of comment youd expect from the English
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Old 9th November 2015, 02:12 AM   #262
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There is some interesting stuff on that Gilroy site. For instance, if he applied fake tan to himself the day before and that explains the supposed concealment of his injuries, why didn't the relevant family member testify to that effect? More importantly, who the heck uses fake tan?

Also, his car is of a make that is susceptible to broken suspension coils or springs or whatever. That's one to him isn't it?

And there is a missing mobile phone of his, allegedly, which shows what he was doing other than disposing of a body. And a claim that he did no have any access to the basement car park. Apparently, to access the basement you would need to retrieve a key from a safe on the floor below the one where he worked. That seems a rather inconvenient arrangement for the folks with cars parked down there but the family is surely not going to bring up plainly bad points.

Given that reasonable doubt is all that was required, you would think he could have muddied the waters with some of this stuff.

Does fake tan hide scratches?
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Old 9th November 2015, 02:49 AM   #263
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The fake tan carry on was obviously a feeble attempt to hide injuries inflicted by Suzanne when fighting for her life, he claimed they were from gardening work , to which there was no evidence to support , reason for nobody giving evidence regarding it , and as to why his wife didn't give evidence is probably because they didn't want to perjure themselves , if his wife was so keen in supporting his case why didn't she give evidence , or him for that matter . I don't think the "missing" phone photos will have any relevance .Yes maybe his car is prone to weak suspension , but what about the greenery stuck to the underside of it . I wish their website was forum like and could be added to
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Old 9th November 2015, 03:37 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
The fake tan carry on was obviously a feeble attempt to hide injuries inflicted by Suzanne when fighting for her life, he claimed they were from gardening work , to which there was no evidence to support , reason for nobody giving evidence regarding it , and as to why his wife didn't give evidence is probably because they didn't want to perjure themselves , if his wife was so keen in supporting his case why didn't she give evidence , or him for that matter . I don't think the "missing" phone photos will have any relevance .Yes maybe his car is prone to weak suspension , but what about the greenery stuck to the underside of it . I wish their website was forum like and could be added to
On the make-up/fake tan I noticed something weird in the appeal judgment:

On the day after his return from Lochgilphead, having given a detailed statement concerning his association with the deceased and his own movements (infra), the appellant consented to be examined by a Forensic Medical Examiner. He had a number of injuries to his forehead, hands and arms. On the back of his right hand and wrist were parallel curvi-linear abrasions, which could have been caused by finger nails. According to a consultant forensic pathologist, such abrasions were a characteristic reaction of a person who was being strangled. On Friday, 7 May, the appellant was taken to police headquarters to have his hands photographed. The photographer noticed that the appellant was wearing make-up on his hands. He was asked to wash his hands before having them photographed again. He was noted not to be drying his hands by vigorous rubbing, despite giving an impression of doing so.

Actually, there are two weird things here. The first is that there would have been no point concealing his injuries on the 7th when they had already been noticed on the 5th (or 4th or whatever day it was the day after he returned from Lochgilphead). The second is this. What is the suggestion here? That his hand injuries were too painful to dry properly so he pretended to?
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Old 9th November 2015, 03:56 AM   #265
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Yes they had been noticed , but they wanted him in for photographing of these injuries and did so at the later date , it was also mentioned at the trial that he wasn't really trying to wash his hands but trying to give the impression he was , and same with drying them , he obviously wanted to keep the make up on , not quite the actions of an innocent man with nothing to hide

Last edited by Gaz; 9th November 2015 at 04:08 AM.
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Old 9th November 2015, 05:04 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Yes they had been noticed , but they wanted him in for photographing of these injuries and did so at the later date , it was also mentioned at the trial that he wasn't really trying to wash his hands but trying to give the impression he was , and same with drying them , he obviously wanted to keep the make up on , not quite the actions of an innocent man with nothing to hide
Oh, OK. I get it now. Bit desperate given that the scratches had already been noticed.

It must be well nigh impossible to strangle someone without them scratching your hands or face or both. He should have got her to put her gloves on.
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Old 9th November 2015, 11:31 AM   #267
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Well Rolfe looks like its down to us 2 in this discussion as I certainly wont be rising or replying to anyone who seems to think its a joke

Edited by jsfisher:  Edited for compliance with Rule 0 and 12 of the Membership Agreement.

Last edited by jsfisher; 9th November 2015 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 9th November 2015, 12:28 PM   #268
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His humour is something of an acquired taste.

I suppose it's fair to consider that there may be a different interpretation of events from the one recounted in court and reported in the papers. But that web site looks to me like a string of excuses presented where they can't be challenged. If Gilroy really did have an exculpatory explanation for the incriminating details, why not present this in court?

I think his Plan A crashed and burned when it turned out that you can be charged and convicted of murder without the body being found. Plan B was to say nothing and hope the Crown couldn't prove its case beyond reasonable doubt. Plan C was to claim procedural irregularities (such as not being cautioned when he should have been). Plan D is to bleat about non-disclosure. Plan D/2 is to get more surveillance data disclosed and then to devise a cover story that's compatible with that data.

He's struggling.
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Old 9th November 2015, 12:41 PM   #269
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Well I don't find anything remotely funny in his comments , (yes im one of the 47% ) but as for Gilroy I hope he is struggling , struggling to cope with his sentence and hope every second seems like a day
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Old 9th November 2015, 01:02 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
His humour is something of an acquired taste.

I suppose it's fair to consider that there may be a different interpretation of events from the one recounted in court and reported in the papers. But that web site looks to me like a string of excuses presented where they can't be challenged. If Gilroy really did have an exculpatory explanation for the incriminating details, why not present this in court?

I think his Plan A crashed and burned when it turned out that you can be charged and convicted of murder without the body being found. Plan B was to say nothing and hope the Crown couldn't prove its case beyond reasonable doubt. Plan C was to claim procedural irregularities (such as not being cautioned when he should have been). Plan D is to bleat about non-disclosure. Plan D/2 is to get more surveillance data disclosed and then to devise a cover story that's compatible with that data.

He's struggling.
Put yourself in his position for a moment, assuming this was not a premeditated murder. Would you have thought of the need to keep texting her? How else could he have improved his chances? I can't imagine having the coolness to think I get away with something like this. If I did such a thing, I'm sure I would head out in a daze to find the nearest copper.
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Old 9th November 2015, 01:03 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Well I don't find anything remotely funny in his comments , (yes im one of the 47% ) but as for Gilroy I hope he is struggling , struggling to cope with his sentence and hope every second seems like a day
Why do you hope this? What difference does it make to you? He got his punishment and he's serving it. Isn't that enough?
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Old 9th November 2015, 01:39 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
Put yourself in his position for a moment, assuming this was not a premeditated murder. Would you have thought of the need to keep texting her? How else could he have improved his chances? I can't imagine having the coolness to think I get away with something like this. If I did such a thing, I'm sure I would head out in a daze to find the nearest copper.

It obviously wasn't pre-meditated. How he managed to get her out of Edinburgh is a wonder. It looks as if he coped astoundingly well immediately after the murder, but then went to pieces by the following day.

If he'd driven straight to Lochgilphead, carried out whatever business he'd managed to dream up while the school was actually open, then made a point of stopping to buy a picnic-style meal shortly afterwards, then dumped the body on the way back, it would have been hard to prove he hadn't just stopped to eat his sandwiches and nodded off for an hour. Oh, and he should have left his mobile phone back in the office.
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Old 9th November 2015, 01:41 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
Why do you hope this? What difference does it make to you? He got his punishment and he's serving it. Isn't that enough?

Gilroy's behaviour in refusing to reveal where he hid the body, despite the pleas of Suzanne's elderly parents, is causing public opinion to turn against him. Giz is a member of the public. So am I come to that.
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Old 9th November 2015, 01:49 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Gilroy's behaviour in refusing to reveal where he hid the body, despite the pleas of Suzanne's elderly parents, is causing public opinion to turn against him. Gaz is a member of the public. So am I come to that.
Thank you Rolfe , I reckon the decision by the sccrc is imminent , it was expected in august after being accepted for review in January
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Old 9th November 2015, 03:53 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Gilroy's behaviour in refusing to reveal where he hid the body, despite the pleas of Suzanne's elderly parents, is causing public opinion to turn against him. Giz is a member of the public. So am I come to that.
You mean public opinion was on his side before? Whatever. It's weird to get involved in these cases to the extent of revelling in the misery of the convicted., unless you are personally involved somehow.
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Old 9th November 2015, 04:01 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
You mean public opinion was on his side before? Whatever. It's weird to get involved in these cases to the extent of revelling in the misery of the convicted., unless you are personally involved somehow.

People do, though. In this case the hope is that if he has a sufficiently miserable time in jail, and parole depends on him explaining where to find the skeleton, he'll go for it.

Otherwise, generally indifferent.
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Old 9th November 2015, 11:53 PM   #277
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Thanks once again Rolfe ,that is the general consensus regarding this waste of oxygen . I just hope the day comes sooner rather than later when her remains are found , though I doubt if it will come from him .
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Old 10th November 2015, 12:08 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Thanks once again Rolfe ,that is the general consensus regarding this waste of oxygen . I just hope the day comes sooner rather than later when her remains are found , though I doubt if it will come from him .
Honestly, what is the reason for attaching any logical importance to this? What difference does it make? I've never understood the importance attached to the search for human remains which would yield no useful forensic evidence.
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"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
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Old 10th November 2015, 12:31 AM   #279
Gaz
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Mostly for the sake of her family , her elderly parents in particular, Doesn't that make a difference that they don't know where her remains are ,they cant have closure , that they cant give her a decent burial ?
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Old 10th November 2015, 12:53 AM   #280
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Really? I'm sure that "can't have closure" is just a meaningless phrase picked up from TV (it's not as if parents' life will suddenly be transformed by the discovery of some bones). I can understand that some religious people would feel better for having had a funeral, though. The mother of one of Brady and Hindley's victims wrecked her entire life by focusing solely on the search for her son's (?) remains, as if finding them would have brought him (?) back somehow. It just seems so self-defeating to be wrapped in the search for remains.
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"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
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