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Tags David Gilroy , murder cases , Scotland cases

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Old 10th November 2015, 02:21 AM   #281
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The grief of the parents is no less real just because some people think it's irrational.

It really isn't going to help, to go up to them and say, stop being ridiculous, what does it matter whether Suzanne's body is decomposing somewhere up in Hell's Glen, or in a cemetery in Edinburgh? The desire to have appropriate burial rites in a very deep-seated one in the human psyche. Just consider the archaeological evidence going back millennia.

So, most people feel very sorry for Suzanne's parents and wish there was some way to make that bastard tell where he dumped her body. You think they should shrug off millennia of conditioning and just stop caring, but I wonder if you'd find it so easy if you were in their situation.
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Old 10th November 2015, 06:16 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The grief of the parents is no less real just because some people think it's irrational.

It really isn't going to help, to go up to them and say, stop being ridiculous, what does it matter whether Suzanne's body is decomposing somewhere up in Hell's Glen, or in a cemetery in Edinburgh? The desire to have appropriate burial rites in a very deep-seated one in the human psyche. Just consider the archaeological evidence going back millennia.

So, most people feel very sorry for Suzanne's parents and wish there was some way to make that bastard tell where he dumped her body. You think they should shrug off millennia of conditioning and just stop caring, but I wonder if you'd find it so easy if you were in their situation.
The parents, fine. Friends and relatives also. Call me a sociopath, but total strangers? Er, no. I would accept that thousands of years of evolution may have conditioned us to empathise with those in our immediate circle but beyond that, it ain't healthy.

ETA bring back the sinister avatar, Rolfe. I quite liked it.
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Old 10th November 2015, 06:26 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
.....It really isn't going to help, to go up to them and say, stop being ridiculous, what does it matter whether Suzanne's body is decomposing somewhere up in Hell's Glen, or in a cemetery in Edinburgh?.......
That's what a straw man looks like, right there. Because nobody would be crass enough even to suggest doing such a thing, let alone be crass enough to actually do such a thing. As Anglolawyer says, for the sake of the parents it would be good if the body were found, but for other people, strangers, to get emotionally involved with such a search is pretty silly.
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Old 10th November 2015, 06:45 AM   #284
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I don't see what's so particularly unusual about sympathising with a couple who are suffering in this way, even if one doesn't know then personally. No man is an island, and all that.
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Old 10th November 2015, 07:06 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I don't see what's so particularly unusual about sympathising with a couple who are suffering in this way, even if one doesn't know then personally. No man is an island, and all that.
I don't thing it's unusual. Patriotism isn't unusual either. Both are wrong.
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Old 10th November 2015, 09:20 AM   #286
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Sympathising with someone who is suffering is wrong?

Loving the country you grew up in is wrong?

Who knew?
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Old 10th November 2015, 09:49 AM   #287
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Oh well, I agree with AngloLawyer about patriotism, but disagree about empathising with bereaved parents. All we need now is someone with the opposite views to me and we've got the set
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Old 10th November 2015, 10:51 AM   #288
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Patriotism is for another thread. You know what I mean. Stop being difficult. Gilroy is doing his bird. There's no need to be revelling in his misery. Funnily enough, often the least censorious of the wicked criminal is the prison guard we pay to confine him.
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Old 10th November 2015, 11:41 AM   #289
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Stop being difficult ? that's rich coming from you , you seem to be the only one in this discussion who seems to think its ok what he has done , and doing , you appear to have the same arrogance and attitude as him , Of course he is serving his time ! That makes it ok does it ? Theres plenty of need to revel in his misery , What kind of misery do you think he has inflicted on suzannes family , friends ETC , GET A GRIP EH !!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10th November 2015, 12:44 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Stop being difficult ? that's rich coming from you , you seem to be the only one in this discussion who seems to think its ok what he has done , and doing , you appear to have the same arrogance and attitude as him , Of course he is serving his time ! That makes it ok does it ? Theres plenty of need to revel in his misery , What kind of misery do you think he has inflicted on suzannes family , friends ETC , GET A GRIP EH !!!!!!!!!!!
Gaz, I detect some personal emotional involvement in this case. Are you friends with someone directly affected, perhaps? Did the killer or victim live in your street?

You may not be very familiar with the ISF, but anything you post is liable for dissection by others, and many will disagree with anything anyone types on a subject. That does not make it personal, nor does it create an excuse for an emotional response. Try logic first: take Anglolawyer's post apart, word by word, and show him where you think he is wrong. Don't make assumptions, and overstate people's positions. I mean, nowhere has AL said anything about Gilroy's actions being OK, but you have suggested that this is his position. As Rolfe did with me, that is a straw man fallacy: building a false case for your opponent in order to tackle that one, rather than what they actually said.
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Old 10th November 2015, 01:02 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Stop being difficult ? that's rich coming from you , you seem to be the only one in this discussion who seems to think its ok what he has done , and doing , you appear to have the same arrogance and attitude as him , Of course he is serving his time ! That makes it ok does it ? Theres plenty of need to revel in his misery , What kind of misery do you think he has inflicted on suzannes family , friends ETC , GET A GRIP EH !!!!!!!!!!!
Gaz, my dear fellow, I am only pulling Rolfes leg as she probably very well knows. Lighten up a little. I think Gilroy was rightly convicted and is serving the sentence he deserves. I'm nonetheless curious about his family's hopes for him as the case seems so overwhelming. I just don't see why anybody (other than friends and family) should get invested.
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Old 10th November 2015, 02:17 PM   #292
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Ok , but why the assumption I am a total stranger to the pilleys ?Or even Gilroy for that matter And even if so I would still have a right to have a keen interest or be emotionally attached to the case regardless, its a high profile case ,im sure theres lots of emotions running high about it . But AL you may think it should be taken more lightly , Im sure Rolfe would beg to differ , she has already mentioned your weird sense of humour , but I don't find anything remotely amusing in it at all .maybe im missing something
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Old 10th November 2015, 02:29 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
I just don't see why anybody (other than friends and family) should get invested.

Well, here's a thing. It's an interesting case, and so there is every reason to become interested. Hence this thread. But then, interested can lead to invested, and indeed almost certainly will unless the interested person has a heart of stone.

I started out interested in Lockerbie, and especially interested in the transfer baggage. But the transfer baggage is suitcases and holdalls, packed by real people just like me, getting ready to catch a plane. These real people have stories, about how they came to be on the plane (or in a couple of cases how they came not to be on the plane). The suitcases had clothes in them, and there are photos of some of the clothes in the forensic report.

And that leads to staring at a photo of a teenage girl's half-burned bra, about a 32A, with the brand name "Maidenform" on the label, and feeling quite upset. In the end, for me at least, I'm sitting in a pew in Dryfesdale church during a two-minute silence, crying my eyes out as everyone present thinks about the two-minute fall to earth. And thinking about my own drive up the A74 25 years previously, when the bodies were still lying out on the cold fields.

You can't become interested in a set of circumstances where people are suffering, and not feel anything. To do that is to lose your humanity.

As far as Suzanne Pilley is concerned, she was a real person and we know a bit about her from the publicity. We also know about her parents. We know that they would probably feel quite a bit better if Gilroy confessed to what he did and explained where the body can be found. I don't know what's so reprehensible about harbouring a wee hope that his life in prison isn't too feather-bedded, if that's what it takes to persuade him to tell all.
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Old 10th November 2015, 02:50 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
.......AL you may think it should be taken more lightly.......
You're doing it again. Not being emotional about the subject doesn't mean taking it lightly. Taking it differently, certainly, but there is no logic in suggesting that AL is taking it lightly simply because he isn't getting involved on an emotional level. Nor is there any logic in suggesting that he (or I, or indeed others) are taking it lightly in supporting the notion that the man has gone through the justice system and is serving his due punishment............end of story. The track you are on ends with the argument that personal retribution by the family after his release from prison would be OK.
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Old 10th November 2015, 02:51 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
......why the assumption I am a total stranger to the pilleys ?Or even Gilroy for that matter.......
I certainly didn't assume that:

Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Gaz, I detect some personal emotional involvement in this case. Are you friends with someone directly affected, perhaps? Did the killer or victim live in your street?
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Old 10th November 2015, 04:40 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Ok , but why the assumption I am a total stranger to the pilleys ?Or even Gilroy for that matter
Just a hunch

Quote:
And even if so I would still have a right to have a keen interest or be emotionally attached to the case regardless, its a high profile case ,im sure theres lots of emotions running high about it . But AL you may think it should be taken more lightly , Im sure Rolfe would beg to differ , she has already mentioned your weird sense of humour , but I don't find anything remotely amusing in it at all .maybe im missing something
It's a murder case. It's serious alright. That doesn't mean it doesn't have a lighter side. However, I'm not talking about whether the murder of a human being should be taken seriously - of course it should - but rather the unseemly glorying in the predicament of the killer. That's what you have been doing and it wouldn't be OK even if you were a member of the family. In that case, it would be something which, over time, hopefully you could get past. But if you're just a nobody, like me, what's the big deal?
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Old 10th November 2015, 04:55 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Well, here's a thing. It's an interesting case, and so there is every reason to become interested. Hence this thread. But then, interested can lead to invested, and indeed almost certainly will unless the interested person has a heart of stone.

I started out interested in Lockerbie, and especially interested in the transfer baggage. But the transfer baggage is suitcases and holdalls, packed by real people just like me, getting ready to catch a plane. These real people have stories, about how they came to be on the plane (or in a couple of cases how they came not to be on the plane). The suitcases had clothes in them, and there are photos of some of the clothes in the forensic report.

And that leads to staring at a photo of a teenage girl's half-burned bra, about a 32A, with the brand name "Maidenform" on the label, and feeling quite upset. In the end, for me at least, I'm sitting in a pew in Dryfesdale church during a two-minute silence, crying my eyes out as everyone present thinks about the two-minute fall to earth. And thinking about my own drive up the A74 25 years previously, when the bodies were still lying out on the cold fields.

You can't become interested in a set of circumstances where people are suffering, and not feel anything. To do that is to lose your humanity.

As far as Suzanne Pilley is concerned, she was a real person and we know a bit about her from the publicity. We also know about her parents. We know that they would probably feel quite a bit better if Gilroy confessed to what he did and explained where the body can be found. I don't know what's so reprehensible about harbouring a wee hope that his life in prison isn't too feather-bedded, if that's what it takes to persuade him to tell all.
Well said Rolfe. But, in the large number of your posts I've read on the Lockerbie case, I haven't read any in which you express hatred for the killers or joy at the prospect of their capture and punishment. My impression is that you are energised by the discovery that the PTB have feet of clay and all that that entails. A vet with a working brain can travel farther towards the truth than all the King's horses and men. Now that is something worth crying about. If there were a Lord to be praised I would praise Him for that.

I have had my moments too, in which the fate of poor Meredith Kercher made me well up, and I'm glad I have that in me somewhere, but I'm not sorry that I don't wish ill toward anyone. Justice doesn't, or shouldn't, work like that. Revenge is for the Mafia and the Middle Ages.

Now, can we get back to analysing this fascinating chess puzzle?
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Old 10th November 2015, 06:00 PM   #298
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Considering the invective I've seen on this forum from various Yanks wishing rape and torture and hoping for a painful application of the death penalty on various "PoS" banged up in the USA, Gaz's posts have been pretty mild.

I agree, some of the comments directed at US prisoners have been absolutely stomach-churning, so I know where you're coming from. It's nauseating even when the objects are obviously guilty, never mind the stuff that was said about the West Memphis Three.
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Old 10th November 2015, 11:18 PM   #299
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Ok , what I took exception to was the suggestion by AL for ME to lighten up a little , I really don't know nor care what his feelings are but I cant lighten up about it , I AM involved ,in which way is irrelevant ,but I am involved . I have been merely expressing feelings , is that so wrong ?? But as Rolfe says my posts have been mild , ive kept them mild as I wouldn't put how I really felt about Gilroy on an open forum
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Old 11th November 2015, 01:35 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Considering the invective I've seen on this forum from various Yanks wishing rape and torture and hoping for a painful application of the death penalty on various "PoS" banged up in the USA, Gaz's posts have been pretty mild.

I agree, some of the comments directed at US prisoners have been absolutely stomach-churning, so I know where you're coming from. It's nauseating even when the objects are obviously guilty, never mind the stuff that was said about the West Memphis Three.
Quite. I am pro-guilt in many of the cases I have looked at (like this one) but I can't get myself to work up anything approaching hate or exultation. A lot of the time , the players are ordinary folk like you and me. I bet Gilroy did not murder anyone before and that he was living a humdrum existence without causing more than his share of misery. Then it turned out he couldn't handle rejection or control his anger. The French would have classified his as a crime of passion and given him 6 months' probation. In fact, had he fessed up he might have got manslaughter down here.
Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Ok , what I took exception to was the suggestion by AL for ME to lighten up a little , I really don't know nor care what his feelings are but I cant lighten up about it , I AM involved ,in which way is irrelevant ,but I am involved . I have been merely expressing feelings , is that so wrong ?? But as Rolfe says my posts have been mild , ive kept them mild as I wouldn't put how I really felt about Gilroy on an open forum
Gaz, you tell it your way and I'll tell it mine. If you are legitimately involved in some way, fine. Your business (except to the extent that you express your feelings here, in which case it becomes ours). If you are just a punitive voyeur then you aren't my cup of tea, but I'm sure we can still rub along.
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Old 11th November 2015, 05:37 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
Quite. I am pro-guilt in many of the cases I have looked at (like this one) but I can't get myself to work up anything approaching hate or exultation. A lot of the time , the players are ordinary folk like you and me. I bet Gilroy did not murder anyone before and that he was living a humdrum existence without causing more than his share of misery. Then it turned out he couldn't handle rejection or control his anger. The French would have classified his as a crime of passion and given him 6 months' probation. In fact, had he fessed up he might have got manslaughter down here.

Gaz, you tell it your way and I'll tell it mine. If you are legitimately involved in some way, fine. Your business (except to the extent that you express your feelings here, in which case it becomes ours). If you are just a punitive voyeur then you aren't my cup of tea, but I'm sure we can still rub along.
Edited by zooterkin: 
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

Last edited by zooterkin; 11th November 2015 at 06:46 AM.
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Old 11th November 2015, 06:27 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Edited by zooterkin: 
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
I'll do us both a favour and not look that up.

Last edited by zooterkin; 11th November 2015 at 06:47 AM.
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Old 12th November 2015, 04:18 AM   #303
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Well that was a mildly interesting self-destruct.
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Old 12th November 2015, 04:43 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Well that was a mildly interesting self-destruct.
My suspension from FM precludes comment.
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Old 12th November 2015, 06:20 AM   #305
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Jings. Did anyone see what he said, and is it possible to paraphrase within the MA?

ETA: I see it was some sort of abusive messages.
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Old 12th November 2015, 07:58 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Jings. Did anyone see what he said, and is it possible to paraphrase within the MA?

ETA: I see it was some sort of abusive messages.
Yeah, after be was suspended he (apparently) left abusive visitor messages on someone's profile. I missed the details, sorry.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 12th November 2015, 10:39 AM   #307
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I thought he might settle down once he figured out the sort of behaviour expected here. Apparently not.
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Old 12th November 2015, 12:51 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by Duffy Moon View Post
But you gotta do it right. I mean, you gotta have the hole already dug before you show up with a package in the trunk. Otherwise, you're talking about a half-hour to forty-five minutes worth of digging. And who knows who's gonna come along in that time? Pretty soon, you gotta dig a few more holes. You could be there all night.
OK, we need a bit of a derail after that self-destruct so I'll just chime in and say some of you would-be-murderers just lack imagination:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Helle_Crafts
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Old 12th November 2015, 02:48 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
OK, we need a bit of a derail after that self-destruct so I'll just chime in and say some of you would-be-murderers just lack imagination:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Helle_Crafts

I'd class what they found in that case to be "a body" for the purposes of discussion. Human remains, identifiable as originating from the lady in question.

I'm not sure Gilroy needed to dig a hole. Some of that area is so remote that a body dumped and concealed with some vegetation might go undiscovered for decades. It's about the police having no clue where to look, in many many square miles of scenery.

And they would have had no clue, if only he'd had the nous to switch off his mobile phone.
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Old 13th November 2015, 01:18 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I'd class what they found in that case to be "a body" for the purposes of discussion. Human remains, identifiable as originating from the lady in question.

I'm not sure Gilroy needed to dig a hole. Some of that area is so remote that a body dumped and concealed with some vegetation might go undiscovered for decades. It's about the police having no clue where to look, in many many square miles of scenery.

And they would have had no clue, if only he'd had the nous to switch off his mobile phone.
His doing so would have been added to the body of evidence against him.

Incidentally, if the body ever shows up in the area where he concealed it, don't be surprised if his supporters argue that it was put there by the real murderer to incriminate him. That is exactly what has happened in the Scott Peterson case.
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Old 13th November 2015, 04:54 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
His doing so would have been added to the body of evidence against him.

Incidentally, if the body ever shows up in the area where he concealed it, don't be surprised if his supporters argue that it was put there by the real murderer to incriminate him. That is exactly what has happened in the Scott Peterson case.
I am enjoying the discussion. In these cases the people demand an alternative suspect, and when no logical path can suggest one, the people settle happily with the only non alibied person.
I hope Rolfe is still interested in the Lundy case, where it is reasonably certain who (not Mark Lundy) killed his family.
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Old 13th November 2015, 07:18 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
His doing so would have been added to the body of evidence against him.

OK, let me elaborate. He should have left the bloody phone behind in the office and claimed he forgot it.
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Old 13th November 2015, 07:22 AM   #313
anglolawyer
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
OK, let me elaborate. He should have left the bloody phone behind in the office and claimed he forgot it.
Better. And he should have continued texting her as though he thought she was alive and he should have not bought armfuls of air freshener in one go on CCTV but in an out of the way corner shop somewhere, or one here, one there and so on.

I still think he made a pretty good fist of things though, given the circs.
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Old 13th November 2015, 08:32 AM   #314
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Might have been hard to remember and find the time to keep texting her when he was fully occupied trying to get the body out of Edinburgh. But the air freshener was a mistake. Maybe it did confuse the cadaver dog, but as you say he could have acquired it more discreetly.
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Old 13th November 2015, 08:42 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Might have been hard to remember and find the time to keep texting her when he was fully occupied trying to get the body out of Edinburgh. But the air freshener was a mistake. Maybe it did confuse the cadaver dog, but as you say he could have acquired it more discreetly.
Well, if I have the facts right, he murdered her on the 3rd and drove her away on the 4th. He had time between the 3rd and 4th to send some texts - 'where were you today?' 'You know I want to speak with you'. That type of thing. Then he forgets his phone on the 4th, so no more texts that day. Not that difficult in theory although, as I have said already, the whole thing would be way too much for me to cope with. I would just get my toothbrush and head down to the nick.
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Old 13th November 2015, 10:39 AM   #316
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He must have been awfully busy on the 3rd, getting his car into the city centre and into that mews area and the body into the car without being seen, and without contaminating the car boot with any biological material, and getting the car back to his house or wherever he left it for the night.

His mind must have been racing, planning, thinking out the idea of the "pre-arranged" trip to Lochgilphead, buying the air freshener, trying to figure out what to do. He didn't slip up that day at all, except by not sending any texts. His mind probably didn't have room for the notion.

The next day, he could have sent more texts until the point where he left the office to go to Lochgilphead, when he should have carelessly left it lying on his desk. That was a slip-up.
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Old 25th August 2016, 12:35 PM   #317
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Disposal site ?

56.34933235 -4.3271032
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Old 26th August 2016, 03:08 PM   #318
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An OS grid reference would be more use.
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Old 26th August 2016, 03:52 PM   #319
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OK, I see it. Between Strathyre and Lochearnhead. Miles away from the area the police were searching.

Google Streetview goes right to the spot you indicate. Here. https://goo.gl/maps/NJbFNpnJKFN2 Not exactly inaccessible to put it mildly. I don't see how he'd have totalled the suspension on his car going there. Just turn around and you'll see there is habitation pretty nearby - a couple of static caravans probably in use as accommodation for migrant farm labourers. That picture was taken 14 months before Suzanne disappeared.

It's certainly on the road we assume Gilroy took to get to Lochgilphead that day, and he'd have passed close there before he was picked up by the CCTV cameras, but why there? In view of the timings I don't see how he'd have had time to get rid of the body in the early part of the day, because the CCTV at Tyndrum (wasn't it) showed him there at the expected time after leaving Edinburgh. So when did he fit in a bit of burial before Tyndrum?

The missing time in his day was after Tyndrum, before being picked up again on the camera at Inveraray. There are a number of places he could have got to in that time including Hell's Glen and Glen Aray, but all the way back nearly to Strathyre isn't one of them.

Also, he didn't return from Lochgilphead that way. There's evidence he did go back across the Rest and Be Thankful and passed south of Loch Lomond in the evening. Thus it would seem he didn't go back by Lochearnhead and Strathyre.

So it doesn't seem to fit the timings at all. Or the smashed suspension. Or the fact that he seemed to be gathering material to help conceal a body (bin bags) when he was in Lochgilphead. Or the pings from his mobile phone at Rest and Be Thankful. And the spot seems way too non-isolated. Why did you pick on it?

By the way I found this six-month-old newspaper article saying his second appeal was thrown out. I didn't even know he'd got past the SCCRC. It looks as if he was trying to find more CCTV evidence around the office in Edinburgh, nothing to do with evidence of his movements. I think his chances of "clearing his name" are toast. I wonder how long before he realises his life will be a lot better if he reveals where he hid the body?

You know, I still think, when I'm driving round the country, where would a calculating so-and-so hide a body in these circumstances, if he'd had time to think about it calmly and sensibly and do a proper job? It's those CCTV cameras that really put a crimp in a lot of ideas.
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Old 27th August 2016, 03:33 AM   #320
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On Wednesday 5th May 2010 Gilroy left his work - Infrastructure Managers Limited Thistle Street Edinburgh just after 11.00.
He stopped at an Esso petrol station on 109 Queensferry Road Edinburgh and left the petrol station at 11.16.
He passed Doune at 12.05. (It takes 49 minutes to drive from the Esso petrol station to Doune) so this matches.
He switched his mobile phone off minutes before passing Doune.
He then arrived at Tyndrum where he was pictured on camera passing The Green Welly Stop in Tyndrum at 13.23.
This journey from Doune to The Green Welly Stop normally takes 57 minutes so he should have arrived at 13.02.
After arriving at Doune at 12.05 it takes him 1 hour and 18 minutes to pass by The Green Welly Stop in Tyndrum.
There are about 21 minutes missing.
Also there is an article from the Daily Record which I am unable to link to but you can search "soil clue widens hunt for body"
"Police have found soil samples which match the area in and around the Queen Elizabeth Forest Park.......
The Queen Elizabeth Forest Park covers ..... Strathyre Forest."
The A84 which passes east of Loch Lubnaig also passes Strathyre Forest which is part of The Queen Elizabeth Forest and there are 4 exits from the A84 which lead off road into Strathyre Forest.
Number 1 starting at the the north end of Loch Lubnaig is at 56.31038366 -4.32529271 which leads to a forest track.
Number 2 further north opposite Immervoulin campsite is at 56.3160369 -4.32930529 which also leads to a forest track.
Number 3 further north again is at 56.32162683 -4.32833701 which also leads to a forest track.
I don't know how often these forest tracks are used by The Forestry Commission and there is a risk of being seen if he drove there and met a forestry worker, although if he was lucky enough he might have got away with disposal without being seen.
Number 4 is the road in my previous post which leads past Mhor 84/Kinghouse hotel.
In all four exits from the A84 there is a risk of being seen either whilst on the road or during disposal, maybe he just got lucky.
Number 1,2 and 3 lead on to forest tracks but maps are not detailed enough to show the terrain, these do require further investigation.
Another link I am unable to show is from the BBC website but you can search "Suzanne Pilley's killer David Gilroy led a double life"
"Gilroy's car suspension was found by investigators to be badly damaged and it had vegetation stuck underneath.
They were convinced he had driven off road."
Posted by Rolfe "I don't see how he'd have totalled the suspension on his car going there. Just turn around and you'll see there is habitation pretty nearby -
a couple of static caravans probably in use as accommodation for migrant farm labourers"
The coordinates in my previous post pass by the Mhor 84/Kinghouse hotel so I agree with Rolfe that its not exactly secluded but if Gilroy was lucky enough to get to the end of the road without being seen it becomes more secluded past where the vegetation starts.
I agree 21 minutes is not long for disposal but it is possible, maybe not to dig a hole but to place the body hidden in the undergrowth.
To summarise
He had time for disposal albeit 21 minutes.
The coordinates in my previous post show that he could have driven over vegetation which was found underneath his car.
The suspension may have been damaged on this route but if not could have been damaged elsewhere, especially during the missing hours after he passed Tyndrum.
I agree he had more time for disposal after Tyndrum but taking into account Strathyre Forest is in The Queen Elizabeth Forest and he did have some time for disposal then it warrants a search although the police do not seem to have any interest in this area.
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