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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Allais Effect , Dark Flow , relativity , Theory of Relativity

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Old 24th December 2017, 01:12 AM   #161
Pixel42
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No, real scientists do not assume that because something appears to be counterintuitive it must be wrong, because common sense has proved to be a very poor guide to the nature of the universe. Most of modern physics is counterintuitive. Deal with it.
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Old 24th December 2017, 01:24 AM   #162
Bjarne
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
No, real scientists do not assume that because something appears to be counterintuitive it must be wrong, because common sense has proved to be a very poor guide to the nature of the universe. Most of modern physics is counterintuitive. Deal with it.
Do not do it more difficult than it is.
Earth is round, do you agree?
It's not wrong wrong with that point of view right ?

Similarly, when a rock falls on Earth, it is not the Earth that falls on the stone. Much as simple as BS on Jens Peter Jensen's plowed field. It is not the Earth that is ******* on the Bulls

Edited by jsfisher:  Vulgar and swear words must be fully masked with asterisks.

Last edited by jsfisher; 26th December 2017 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 24th December 2017, 01:29 AM   #163
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Yes I agree the earth is round even though my common sense tells me it's flat. I also agree that the earth goes round the sun even though I can see the sun moving through the sky. In both cases there is plenty of evidence that contradicts what my intuition tells me, so I overrule it. You should do the same.
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Old 24th December 2017, 03:28 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Let's say you're going home to your grandmother at Christmas.

Try to tell her what "the curvature of space" (really) is, - at least what theoretical cause / effect connection there is between matter and the curvature of space.

Remember to tell her what the curvature of space is made of.

And don't forget to tell HOW the curvature of space is the cause of the biggest CAT weight is 123 ton.. Tell here how the CAT know that space beneath it is "curved", and to test here understanding ask here after some time; - what that have to do with the cause of gravity ?

When she says that sounds really very very logical, - then and first then try to tell me which pedagogy you used?

Remember my opinion, it's forbidden to tell her the same thing 7770235235634356 times until she breaks down and says, it's probably just me that's stupid - it's called brainwashing.

You have to keep it all cool OK ?
My grandmother was an Industrial Chemist. She worked in the labs at ICI Wilton on the Polypropylene plant. She has a good understanding of science.
She would see your arguments and ideas for what they are.
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Old 24th December 2017, 03:43 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Do not do it more difficult than it is.
Earth is round, do you agree?
It's not wrong wrong with that point of view right ?

Similarly, when a rock falls on Earth, it is not the Earth that falls on the stone. Much as simple as BS on Jens Peter Jensen's plowed field. It is not the Earth that is ******* on the Bulls
Actually......

Edited by jsfisher:  Edited moderated content in quoted text.
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Old 24th December 2017, 04:39 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Yes I agree the earth is round even though my common sense tells me it's flat. I also agree that the earth goes round the sun even though I can see the sun moving through the sky. In both cases there is plenty of evidence that contradicts what my intuition tells me, so I overrule it. You should do the same.
And what about the Bull and the BS
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Old 24th December 2017, 04:43 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Yes I agree the earth is round even though my common sense tells me it's flat. I also agree that the earth goes round the sun even though I can see the sun moving through the sky. In both cases there is plenty of evidence that contradicts what my intuition tells me, so I overrule it. You should do the same.
OK so the earth is still flat, a larger perspective doesnít' count because of the contradiction BS, and a flat Earth is what we should teach the children right?
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Old 24th December 2017, 04:45 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
Actually......
Rubbish
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Old 24th December 2017, 04:52 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
My grandmother was an Industrial Chemist. She worked in the labs at ICI Wilton on the Polypropylene plant. She has a good understanding of science.
She would see your arguments and ideas for what they are.
So, what did she say about; what theoretical cause / effect connection there is between matter and the curvature of space.

HOW the curvature of space is the cause of the biggest CAT weight is 123 ton..

How the CAT know that space beneath it is "curved", and - what that have to do with the cause of gravity ?

Which pedagogy was used when she learned about all that ? brainwash ? or how ?

Keep it all cool fellow it is better for the brain.
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Old 24th December 2017, 05:49 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
And what about the Bull and the BS
You tell the BS from the facts by looking at the evidence. The evidence overwhelmingly supports Relativity, and says that your theories are the ones full of BS. The period covered by your thread title, far from being one in which Relativity started to fall apart, was actually one in which it received even more support with the detection of gravitational waves.

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
OK so the earth is still flat, a larger perspective doesnít' count because of the contradiction BS, and a flat Earth is what we should teach the children right?
What we should teach the children is what the evidence tells us. That's that the earth is round. You're the one suggesting that we should teach that the earth is flat, regardless of the evidence, as that's what our intuition and common sense tell us. The idea that the earth is round is BS according to your criteria.
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Old 24th December 2017, 06:03 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Its very simple my dear.
A NASA teams continue to claim that Dark Flow (DF) Exist..

A real scientist must have the same feeling in his blood as when a farmer see a lot of BS on his field.
If there is a lot of BS there must be Bulls .

In the same way for a real scientist, - if Dark Flow is TRUE, there must be Dark Flow Acceleration (DFA).
I have shown a scientific method how it must be possible to measure whether DFA is true.
And you know what? - Dark Flow Acceleration must also be possible to by pendulums as well, --- This is called Allais effect.....
I have in details explained WHY, all this belong to the same pipe of tobacco.

Already that effect is in fact measured by modern devices too, - the method I have explained in all MY papers, - my dear. ( Greenland 2017)
Even when the team on Greenland was 15 hours too late, still they measured a significant anomaly, that have a signature excactly as predicted.

You can compare that to a farmer that will find a HUGE fresh load of BS on his field. Now he can both see and smell there MUST be bulls somewhere.
But its seems you have understood nothing of all that.


Fascinating. Thatís an awful lot of hubris from a person who has been consistently wrong since they started posting.

Iím not surprised. It takes a LOT of hubris to look at a well established theory thatís the basis of multiple working techniques and conclude it HAS to be wrong just because the claimant doesnít understand it.

Your entire argument consists of extrapolating your limitations to the rest of humanity. I cannot fathom an ego so fragile that such thinking is needed.
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Old 24th December 2017, 06:37 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
You tell the BS from the facts by looking at the evidence. The evidence overwhelmingly supports Relativity, and says that your theories are the ones full of BS. The period covered by your thread title, far from being one in which Relativity started to fall apart, was actually one in which it received even more support with the detection of gravitational waves.
I never denied that gravitational existed, only that I was not sure whether we would succeed to measure such.


Quote:
What we should teach the children is what the evidence tells us. That's that the earth is round. You're the one suggesting that we should teach that the earth is flat, regardless of the evidence, as that's what our intuition and common sense tell us. The idea that the earth is round is BS according to your criteria.
Well and soon tell them also that Earth is acceleration (constantly) , regardless whether you like it or not. Allready now the first measurement behave excactly as predicted.
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Old 24th December 2017, 06:45 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I cannot fathom an ego so fragile that such thinking is needed.
My ego is very worried for tax payers money, too often wasted on hot flops.
The next will be ITER, price lap 22 BILLION USD.
All you get it hot gas, literary, and nothing more than that. Exactly like the many previous.
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Old 24th December 2017, 07:24 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Rubbish
Here's a tip for you, Bjarne.

If you're going to be a rebel and an iconoclast, you must first get your most basic facts straight. If you can't show the most basic competence, the more sophisticated parts have no credibility.

And your comment shows that you have no faint understanding of the basics of gravity. The gravitational attraction between any two objects pulls on both objects with the same magnitude. The earth is not fixed (although it is much more massive than a rock).

So, yes, Bjarne, when you drop a rock, the earth falls toward it. For a rock which you or I can pick up in the first place the displacement is so small as to be entirely unmeasurable by any practical technique - that is, by a miniscule amount.

A Real Scientist (which you seem to consider yourself to be) understands that miniscule and zero are not the same thing.

Or, as Galileo (a Real Scientist) remarked,
Quote:
Eppur si muove
"And yet it moves."
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Old 24th December 2017, 07:32 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by WhatRoughBeast View Post

So, yes, Bjarne, when you drop a rock, the earth falls toward it. For a rock which you or I can pick up in the first place the displacement is so small as to be entirely unmeasurable by any practical technique - that is, by a miniscule amount.
So long the BS not fall into my a... everything is allright
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Old 24th December 2017, 07:46 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
......Well and soon tell them also that Earth is acceleration (constantly) , regardless whether you like it or not..........
At what rate? (M/sec/sec) Has this rate always been the same?
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Old 24th December 2017, 09:07 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Similarly, when a rock falls on Earth, it is not the Earth that falls on the stone.
Ah, but you once again show your ignorance of the laws of motion and gravitational attraction. In your example, both objects move, one more noticeably than the other; but given care, the motion of both can be calculated.
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Old 24th December 2017, 09:43 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
Ah, but you once again show your ignorance of the laws of motion and gravitational attraction. In your example, both objects move, one more noticeably than the other; but given care, the motion of both can be calculated.
And this on Newtonmas Eve. tsk, tsk...
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Old 24th December 2017, 10:39 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
Ah, but you once again show your ignorance of the laws of motion and gravitational attraction. In your example, both objects move, one more noticeably than the other; but given care, the motion of both can be calculated.
Depends on whether the rock is external to Earth or not. If not, the the energy imparted by the earth/rock system is equal to and opposite the energy used to separate the earth/rock system initially.
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Old 24th December 2017, 01:36 PM   #180
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Ok folks, how is the downfall of Relativity going so far?

2018 is coming. Just sayin'
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Old 24th December 2017, 02:24 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
Ok folks, how is the downfall of Relativity going so far?

2018 is coming. Just sayin'
First small crack can bee seen allready now (2017) , by a none BW person.

Three more, (same kind) but 100% complete I am pretty sure will be measured in 2018, 2019 and 2020 etc.....

http://www.sciepub.com/portal/downlo...faac-3-2-3.pdf

And finally we will have the final deathblow when the ISS data is ready, late 2019 , or latest 2020
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Old 24th December 2017, 02:35 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
First small crack can bee seen allready now (2017) , by a none BW person.

Three more, (same kind) but 100% complete I am pretty sure will be measured in 2018, 2019 and 2020 etc.....

http://www.sciepub.com/portal/downlo...faac-3-2-3.pdf

And finally we will have the final deathblow when the ISS data is ready, late 2019 , or latest 2020

You keep posting a link to that nonsense. I do not think it shows what you think it shows.
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Old 24th December 2017, 02:46 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
My ego is very worried for tax payers money, too often wasted on hot flops.

The next will be ITER, price lap 22 BILLION USD.

All you get it hot gas, literary, and nothing more than that. Exactly like the many previous.


How do you account for all the technology that utilizes relativity, such as the entire GPS satellite system?

Oh, thatís right. You canít.

Have you considered jumping on the Flat Earth bandwagon? Your brand of reality denial would fit in well with that crowd. They canít tell the difference between moral relativism and Einsteinís theories, so your ramblings would make you their Stephen Hawking.
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Old 24th December 2017, 06:33 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
Depends on whether the rock is external to Earth or not. If not, the the energy imparted by the earth/rock system is equal to and opposite the energy used to separate the earth/rock system initially.
In doing work, separating the rock from the Earth, some tiny bit of energy is lost; the two scenarios are not quite equal.
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Old 25th December 2017, 01:40 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
How do you account for all the technology that utilizes relativity, such as the entire GPS satellite system?
GPS is na commercial project, - not a dedicated scientific project.
The main job is to have it to work, not to ask too many questions, complicated to answer.
Why do you think it is necessary to test relativity on board ISS, just for fun?
Because taxpayer love wasting their money on NOTHING?

Only relative few GPS satellites will show periodical contradictions.
Time dilation is true, however things are different in a necessary absolute reference frame.

Last edited by Bjarne; 25th December 2017 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 25th December 2017, 06:53 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
GPS is na commercial project, - not a dedicated scientific project.
That says nothing at all about the principles involved in its workings.
Quote:
The main job is to have it to work,
And it does work, admirably.
Quote:
...not to ask too many questions, complicated to answer.
So, then, the designers got it to work without asking "complicated questions"? They perhaps borrowed Harry Potter's magic wand to make it work?
Quote:
Why do you think it is necessary to test relativity on board ISS, just for fun?
Because people never stop asking questions and seeking rational answers.
Quote:
Because taxpayer love wasting their money on NOTHING?
I doubt airline pilots, the military and backwoods recreationists would consider GPS "nothing".
Quote:
Only relative few GPS satellites will show periodical contradictions.
You have data to support that assertion?
Quote:
Time dilation is true
We've known that since 1903
Quote:
.. however things are different in a necessary absolute reference frame.
No such animal as an absolute reference frame. We've also known that for quite some time.
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Old 25th December 2017, 07:11 AM   #187
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The Theory of Relativity will begin to fall apart in 2016/2017 - Part II

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
l
Time dilation is true, however things are different in a necessary absolute reference frame.

I trimmed the irrelevant blither-blather.

You concede that the time dilation is real, yet argue against the theory that not only best explains it, but predicted it long before the technology existed to measure it.

I find it hilarious that you agree to parts of Relativity when technology rubs your nose in it.

How, exactly, is time dilation supposed to exist in an absolute reference frame? The very existence of the time dilation means you are not working in an absolute reference frame.
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Old 25th December 2017, 07:26 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
GPS is na commercial project, - not a dedicated scientific project.
The main job is to have it to work, not to ask too many questions, complicated to answer.
No, technically the GPS satellite constellation is a military project. Commercial and civil applications are just side benefits. As of 2000 civilian accuracy is no longer intentionally degraded but it still requires dual-frequency GPS equipment to take full advantage of that increased accuracy.


https://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/space/

https://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy/

In case you've missed it, the main job of science is to have its projects work also.

Evidently it has never been your responsibility to get something to work or maintain it working. As answering questions, concerning functionality, particularly those "complicated to answer" are exactly what you are required to do.

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Why do you think it is necessary to test relativity on board ISS, just for fun?
Because taxpayer love wasting their money on NOTHING?
No, because science always tests itself. Why would you think it was not "necessary" to try to test, falsify or simply refine scientific hypothesis, theory and/or laws?

In school we repeated many fundamental physics and chemistry experiments (same thing in electronics), not for fun, "wasting their money on NOTHING" or even simply for education but to show those fundamental principles as valid and directly demonstrable.


Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Only relative few GPS satellites will show periodical contradictions.
Time dilation is true, however things are different in a necessary absolute reference frame.

This part...

"Time dilation is true..."

contradicts this part...

"...a necessary absolute reference frame."

Do please let us know when your assertions can just agree with simply themselves.
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Old 25th December 2017, 08:35 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
No, technically the GPS satellite constellation is a military project. Commercial and civil applications are just side benefits. As of 2000 civilian accuracy is no longer intentionally degraded but it still requires dual-frequency GPS equipment to take full advantage of that increased accuracy.
Just a side note: the GPS selective availability can be reinstated should DoD deem it necessary.
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Old 25th December 2017, 08:49 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
Just a side note: the GPS selective availability can be reinstated should DoD deem it necessary.
Not with GPS III satellites, they will, at least purportedly, lack that capability.




https://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/modernization/sa/
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Old 25th December 2017, 08:53 AM   #191
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Not all the GPS crap again, that discussion is over, go back and read my answers
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Old 25th December 2017, 09:06 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Not all the GPS crap again, that discussion is over, go back and read my answers

Answers to what? I asked no questions about GPS. Whatever "GPS crap" you may be encountering as questions, answers or whatever is simply just a result of your own. well, crap.

ETA: If you actually don't want crap then at least stop spewing it.
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Old 25th December 2017, 09:18 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Answers to what? I asked no questions about GPS. Whatever "GPS crap" you may be encountering as questions, answers or whatever is simply just a result of your own. well, crap.

We have discussed GPS in weeks, in this thread already, that’s enough.

Let say that also the summer 2018 ADG measurement on Greenland, confirms the summer 2017 prediction, and let say this time Measurement is taken excactly as recommended.

That day it will be evidently that the Earth is acceleration at least 5e-7m/s^2

Do you know it will then only take the earth 19 million years to reach "c"

Do you understand what such simple measurement can do to science?

So fellow in the meantime take it easy, get the concrete out of your ears. Relativity is sometime quite different as the massive brainwash going on tells you.

After the summer 2018 Measurement we can return to the GPS bla bla bla bla bla , and you will understand why this discussion is so relative silly.

An absolutte reference frame MUST exist.

Last edited by Bjarne; 25th December 2017 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 25th December 2017, 09:35 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Bjarne
Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
Actually......
Rubbish
Bjarne, would you like to reconsider or are you a slow learner?

By the way, 2016 and now 2017 are part of the past and so far, how is that "falling" from the thread title going?
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Old 25th December 2017, 09:53 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
We have discussed GPS in weeks, in this thread already, thatís enough.
Yes, I know it's been discussed with most of what you still say about it still being crap. The crap has to stop with you if you actually want it to stop.


Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Let say that also the summer 2018 ADG measurement on Greenland, confirms the summer 2017 prediction, and let say this time Measurement is taken excactly as recommended.

That day it will be evidently that the Earth is acceleration at least 5e-7m/s^2

Do you know it will then only take the earth 19 million years to reach "c"

Do you understand what such simple measurement can do to science?

So fellow in the meantime take it easy, get the concrete out of your ears. Relativity is sometime quite different as the massive brainwash going on tells you.

After the summer 2018 Measurement we can return to the GPS bla bla bla bla bla , and you will understand why this discussion is so relative silly.

An absolutte reference frame MUST exist.
No, let's not just say crap, about GPS, about Earth reaching the speed of light, about "An absolutte reference frame MUST exist.", about concrete or people not taking your crap "easy". It's your crap, only you can stop it. Not doing so only indicates that you encourage crap and as a result are going to get your own crap, even about GPS, repeatedly thrown back at you. So crap away, it will not help you get away from your own crap.
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Old 25th December 2017, 12:34 PM   #196
The Man
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Do you know it will then only take the earth 19 million years to reach "c"

"then only take"? What, it just started? Did you know the Earth is about 3.5 billion years old? That's about, well, 3.5 billion years longer than your 19 million years (0.019 billion years) or about 184 times your 19 million years. What makes you think your claimed "acceleration" couldn't have started just a mere 100 million years ago? Just about 3% less than the Earths current age yet still over five times your 19 million.

Again, the crap will come back at you.
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Old 25th December 2017, 12:45 PM   #197
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Will reach 'C' relative to what?
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Old 25th December 2017, 12:58 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Will reach 'C' relative to what?
Absolutely.
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Old 25th December 2017, 01:01 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Will reach 'C' relative to what?
Bjarne...


Or more specifically Bjarne's "absolutte reference frame" that "MUST exist" for, well, Bjarne. I can't recall it actually ever being defined. Though, if I do recall correctly he may confuse simply a flat space time with an "absolutte reference frame". However, I could be conflating cranks here.
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Old 25th December 2017, 01:04 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by WhatRoughBeast View Post
Absolutely.
Wouldn't that be 'Absolutivity'?



Dang, now I gave the crap a name. I hate it when that happens.
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