ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 

Notices


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags general discussion , holocaust , holocaust denial , World War II history

Reply
Old 19th September 2017, 07:47 PM   #161
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,259
Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Because Saggy paints by numbers, we can more or less at this point answer by numbers. In this case: #3.
I think his outline drawings are a bit smudged and someone appears to have eaten his crayons.
Hans is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 05:09 AM   #162
Loss Leader
Do you want to date my Avatar?
Moderator
 
Loss Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 25,244
Mod WarningA recent image was posted for the third time in 5 pages. Do not repost the same images multiple times.

Please use the [imgw=x] tag for large images, where x equals the size of the picture. 400 works well.

Thank you.
Posted By:Loss Leader
__________________
I have the honor to be
Your Obdt. St

L. Leader
Loss Leader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 06:43 AM   #163
Saggy
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,777
This is the 3rd day of the challenge to the hoaxers to present physical evidence of the holohoax. So far nothing save the cans of Zyklon, and the door to the hoax gas chamber, but hey, I presented that evidence. And, I'm going to continue helping you out.

But first, let's see some examples of conflict from the more distant past .... to find physical artifacts you go to a museum, so we can find a helmet from the Peloponnesian war, circa 400 bc, in the British museum ...



To see a musket from the US civil war 160 years ago we go to the VMI museum ...



So, where do we find physical artifacts of the holohoax, circa 1945? Why the USHMM of course .....
and what do we find? Shoes !



which also has a poem, not found in the other museums ...



But not just any shoes ...

"We are the shoes, we are the last witnesses.

We are shoes from grandchildren and grandfathers

From Prague, Paris and Amsterdam,

And because we are only made of fabric and leather

And not of blood and flesh,

Each one of us avoided the hellfire."
__________________
"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid."

Last edited by Saggy; 20th September 2017 at 06:55 AM.
Saggy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 06:45 AM   #164
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 72,392
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
This is the 3rd day of the challenge to the hoaxers to present physical evidence of the holohoax.
Another day, another day. Today, Saggy will ignore the evidence presented, so tomorrow he'll claim that none have been and call it another day, another day.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 07:06 AM   #165
LemmyCaution
Master Poster
 
LemmyCaution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,840
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
This is the 3rd day of the challenge to the hoaxers to present physical evidence of the holohoax. So far nothing save the cans of Zyklon, and the door to the hoax gas chamber. . . .
Still making dishonest posts, I see. Sigh. From yesterday:
Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
__________________
. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft
LemmyCaution is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 07:10 AM   #166
LemmyCaution
Master Poster
 
LemmyCaution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,840
also these - where you dodged discussion of physical evidence when the discussion didn't go your way:

4. how corpses can be burned . . .
8. physical evidence for the murder of Jews at Chełmno . . .
12. mass graves at Žagare and "Ilokiai" in Lithuania . . .
15. follow-up questions about Babi Yar
__________________
. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft
LemmyCaution is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 07:27 AM   #167
Dash80
Rave on, Not Fade Away
 
Dash80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,186
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
This is the 3rd day of the challenge to the hoaxers to present physical evidence of the holohoax. So far nothing save the cans of Zyklon, and the door to the hoax gas chamber, but hey, I presented that evidence. And, I'm going to continue helping you out.

But first, let's see some examples of conflict from the more distant past .... to find physical artifacts you go to a museum, so we can find a helmet from the Peloponnesian war, circa 400 bc, in the British museum ...



To see a musket from the US civil war 160 years ago we go to the VMI museum ...



So, where do we find physical artifacts of the holohoax, circa 1945? Why the USHMM of course .....
and what do we find? Shoes !



which also has a poem, not found in the other museums ...

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...XRUkpKIyKzFwn6

But not just any shoes ...

"We are the shoes, we are the last witnesses.

We are shoes from grandchildren and grandfathers

From Prague, Paris and Amsterdam,

And because we are only made of fabric and leather

And not of blood and flesh,

Each one of us avoided the hellfire."
Chelmno:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/holo...he--t1771.html
__________________
I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings.
Dash80 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 07:29 AM   #168
Loss Leader
Do you want to date my Avatar?
Moderator
 
Loss Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 25,244
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
So, where do we find physical artifacts of the holohoax, circa 1945? Why the USHMM of course .....
and what do we find? Shoes !

Why are shoes less convincing than a helmet?
__________________
I have the honor to be
Your Obdt. St

L. Leader
Loss Leader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 07:47 AM   #169
Saggy
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,777
Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Still making dishonest posts, I see. Sigh. From yesterday:
You at least seem to understand the question, but .... a list of links won't do.

I could ask ..... prove the holocaust happened, and you could respond ...

see.. www.ushmm.org

but that ain't gonna get it.

If you can present and discuss some element of physical evidence, do so.

If you can present one credible Jewish eyewitness and discuss their testimony, along with corroborating testimony, and physical or documentary evidence that supports their testimony do so.

If you can name one person who was gassed at Auschwitz and present the evidence for it, do so.

Otherwise the challenge is unanswered.
__________________
"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid."
Saggy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 07:48 AM   #170
Saggy
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,777
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Why are shoes less convincing than a helmet?
Shoes are not a weapon of war.
__________________
"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid."
Saggy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 07:50 AM   #171
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 72,392
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Shoes are not a weapon of war.
....what does that have to do with anything?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 07:53 AM   #172
Parsman
Muse
 
Parsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bonnie Scotland
Posts: 527
I repeat my challenge to you for your survival hoax. Witnesses or evidence of the survival of millions of Jews, Gays, Handicapped, Roma and Political Opponents who disappeared under the National Socialist Government in Germany 1933 - 1945 and in Occupied Europe 1939 - 1945. If you can't produce evidence or witnesses then Saggy, by your own logic (I use the word loosely of course) then there were no survivors and you and your ilk are perpetrating a huge hoax on the rest of us. This is how this works, isn't it?
__________________
I was not; I have been; I am not; I am content - Epicurus

When you're dead you don't know that you're dead, all the pain is felt by others....................the same thing happens when you're stupid.
Parsman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 09:02 AM   #173
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,664
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Shoes are not a weapon of war.
The Jews were neither an army nor even armed.

Your demand is foolishly unreasonable.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 09:05 AM   #174
Jeffk 1970
Thinker
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 208
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
This is the 3rd day of the challenge to the hoaxers to present physical evidence of the holohoax. So far nothing save the cans of Zyklon, and the door to the hoax gas chamber, but hey, I presented that evidence. And, I'm going to continue helping you out.
How about hair?
https://inspireinvolveimprove.files....4/dscn3772.jpg

The Poles tested some of that hair after the war and found cyanide:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/holo...945-t1894.html

They also tested other items from Krema II and found cyanide on them as well.

Scroll down to get the English translation, Saggy.

Yeah, I know, the Germans fumigated the hair to get rid of lice....except that there is no evidence that the hair was fumigated. Per SK statements the hair was hung above the ovens to dry. At Auschwitz the SK's cut the hair from the corpses after gassing operations. Processing would take care of eggs and lice desert their hosts when they no longer have a supply of blood.

Hey, Saggy? You dodged my above comment, just like I knew you would. I'll take your silence on this as evidence you have no evidence of your own, just like every denier I meet. You can't prove your alternate theory so you ignore it.

Thanks for confirming to me you don't have a clue.

Last edited by Jeffk 1970; 20th September 2017 at 09:06 AM.
Jeffk 1970 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 09:05 AM   #175
Dash80
Rave on, Not Fade Away
 
Dash80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,186
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Shoes are not a weapon of war.
Unless you're trying to suggest people were murdered by having shoes thrown at them, your analogy does not work.
__________________
I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings.

Last edited by Dash80; 20th September 2017 at 10:58 AM.
Dash80 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 09:35 AM   #176
LemmyCaution
Master Poster
 
LemmyCaution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,840
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
You at least seem to understand the question, but .... a list of links won't do.

I could ask ..... prove the holocaust happened, and you could respond ...

see.. www.ushmm.org

but that ain't gonna get it.

If you can present and discuss some element of physical evidence, do so.

If you can present one credible Jewish eyewitness and discuss their testimony, along with corroborating testimony, and physical or documentary evidence that supports their testimony do so.

If you can name one person who was gassed at Auschwitz and present the evidence for it, do so.

Otherwise the challenge is unanswered.
Saggy, you wrote: "we have a standing challenge for the hoaxers - to post any example, a photo would be nice, of physical evidence."

So guess what I did?

Within the rules of the forum - recall you got slapped on this just today - I posted links to many photographs of physical evidence of the genocide. Unlike your example of a generic link to USHMM, which you try pretending is what I gave you, the links I posted take you to precisely what you asked for: many photos of physical evidence for mass murder. If you are truly interested, you should in fact be glad for those links, as they give you more than what you requested. If you have something to say about these cases, nothing is stopping you - so I can only assume you are rattled by the many examples and really don't know how to deal with them.

Also, as you know, weeks ago I posted about various forms physical evidence of mass murder at Chełmno: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=2895. You decided not to discuss this evidence when you were shown by both LeoMajor and me not to have a clue about Chełmno and this work. Today Dash80 re-posted about the Łucja Pawlicka-Nowak study. You ignored his post.

For some odd reason you like posting images - but won't accept my responding to your request for images with, er, images.

So please stop dodging.

Btw you forgot to reply with answers to my questions about the forging of documents on both sides of the Iron curtain, torture of the Einsatzgruppen trial defendants, and witnesses Krzepicki and Rabinowicz. As you know, these last two, Krzepicki and Rabinowicz, were offered many weeks ago in reply to you claim that all witnesses to the mass murder of Jews are liars - yet you refuse to discuss what's been presented about their testimonies. I know why.

You seem to have decided on mind-numbing and tedious repetition and excruciatingly transparent dodging as your key strategies.
__________________
. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft

Last edited by LemmyCaution; 20th September 2017 at 09:54 AM.
LemmyCaution is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 09:36 AM   #177
LemmyCaution
Master Poster
 
LemmyCaution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,840
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Shoes are not a weapon of war.
Which doesn't mean they are not evidence of mass murder. You've added non sequiturs to you repertoire, goodie.

We are not discussing a war fought between contesting militaries - we are discussing genocide, a mass murder carried out against civilian populations during a war. Oftentimes civilians wear shoes. When civilians are killed, they no longer need their shoes - so they may be left behind for the killers.

This is analogous to the personal effects of civilian victims found on the grounds of the Chełmno execution assembly point. “On 29 May 1942 less than a third (31.7 percent) of the Western European Jews remained” in Łódź ghetto, according to Trunk. “. . . over 50 percent were sent directly to death at Chelmno.” These were Jews brought to Chełmno from Germany, the Protectorate and other parts of central Europe. Some of thee abandoned personal effects point to the locations from which the victims originated, providing confirmation of the fate of central and western European Jews brought first to Łódź ghetto, then starting in May 1942 to Chełmno: the excavations found objects brought to the mansion by Reich Jews as they were processed there for murder in a gassing van, and discarded near the granary and former sorting tent. This physical evidence fits with other evidence showing that these Jews - from Germany, Austria and the Protectorate; also even Luxembourg - were brought not to the White Sea or chimerical settlements in Unicornland but to Chełmno. There's no trace of them after their presence at Chełmno.

According to the Museum of the former Extermination Camp in Chełmno-on-Ner, objects brought to the mansion by Reich Jews as they were processed there for gassing vans, and discarded near the granary and former sorting tent, were found in excavations of refuse pits on the grounds of the complex:
Quote:
The Museum considered which research method should be applied to explore the surface of the park and gardens covering 3 hectares. The terrain was rough, overgrown at its edges, partly covered with concrete slabs and barracks. For fear of overlooking tiny traces illegible in small-drill cross-sections, the Museum gave up the idea of applying drillings and chose the method of putting up probing nets in a checked pattern all over the terrain. Additionally, before the probes were set up, all the data gathered from the testimonies by the witnesses and the accounts by the elder Chelmno residents and its vicinity had been analyzed. This resulted in discovering 10 waste pits. The pits, in which objects that were useless for the murderers were buried both in the first and second phase of the center operation, constitute an important and characteristic element of its history. During the exploration of the pits, the Museum gathered significant amounts of historical material; unfortunately, the pits themselves - such significant evidence in situ - were lost irretrievably. The Museum decided to consider the possibility of leaving one of them untouched, as an element of a natural exposition. For this reason the pit was only partly explored so that the visitor can notice its shape, depth, and contents. The contents of the pits provided incredibly rich exploration material, which allows to identify the victims more precisely. On its basis the Museum can, among others, link them to specific transports and periods of the center operation. Some of them can be linked to the craftsmen working in the granary during the second phase of the center operation. The pits were mostly localized in the second research season in 1998 when the whole territory of the former estate was cut up by probing excavations. The earth from all the pits was washed and sifted, which allowed to retrieve even very small objects. Some of them are burned. . . .

c. Research in the palace and park grounds.

Waste pits. . . .

Pit no. 4. . . . A few objects may be linked to the German and Austrian Jews; these are: 2 iron crosses from the period of WW I, a brass 6-square top for playing "drejdl" with the inscriptions in Yiddish (Arab letters), a silver thimble with the German inscription "D.H. Aus Freundschaft", three glass medallions made in a mold - a blue one with the image of Schiller, yellow and white with Frederick the Great, a badge with the inscription "Berlin", a badge of the Nurses Association from Wiesbaden (Jewish nurses; in the center of the badge there is the Star of David), and a glass vial after a medicine against insect bites and frostbite manufactured by Aachen. Among numerous findings from the pit, we should also pay special attention to medicine boxes, fragments of syringes and needles, a fragment of a probably promotional mirror from Vienna, a fragment of a faience dish with the sign of C. Freudenreich's factory in Koło, the German name of the town - "Wartbrücken" - and the data "1942", small toys for children in the shape of animal figurines. The tools found included: textile magnifying glasses, jeweler's, shoemaker's, and tailor's tools. . . .

Pit No. 7 . . . Cohesion of the layers allowed to leave a 0.8 meter-wide witness dividing the pit into two parts. Significant amounts of objects have been found in it. Some of them had probably belonged to German Jews, which fact is indicated by the nature of the finds: an iron cross for participation in World War I, a commemorative badge in the shape of a tombstone from Wrocław, with an inscription in German localizing the Wrocław cemetery and a grave of a person buried on March 27, 1906 on one side, and an inscription in Yiddish referring to a dead mother, Masza Grosberg, on the other. . . . Apart from the mentioned objects we also retrieved cosmetics and medications boxes with inscriptions in German, fragments of jewelry made of metal, silver, and gold, a comb manufactured in Hamburg, etc.

Jews from Western Europe in the period from May 4 to 15, 1942, were brought to Chełmno in 12 transports (10,498 people), another group (about 1,400 people) got to Chełmno in the period from September 3 to 12, 1942. In the pit we also discovered significant amounts of medicine boxes, boxes for doctor's stamps, which may support the hypothesis linking the contents of the pit to the Jews from the West, as there were over 60 physicians, pharmacists, and dentists among them.
http://www.muzeum.com.pl/en/chelmno.htm

Like the shoes you try using as a sick joke, these personal belongings which victims "left behind" at Chełmno - taken with deportation records, testimonies, and other sources (including archaeological study of the mass graves in the forest) - are evidence for the mass murder of their owners.
__________________
. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft

Last edited by LemmyCaution; 20th September 2017 at 10:15 AM.
LemmyCaution is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 10:20 AM   #178
Loss Leader
Do you want to date my Avatar?
Moderator
 
Loss Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 25,244
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Shoes are not a weapon of war.

A helmet isn't a weapon, either. And it doesn't have to be worn in a war. But an ancient helmet shows that at least there was a soldier there. And shoes show that there were people there - civilians. And they left for some undiscovered country without taking their shoes.
__________________
I have the honor to be
Your Obdt. St

L. Leader
Loss Leader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 10:48 AM   #179
LemmyCaution
Master Poster
 
LemmyCaution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,840
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
A helmet isn't a weapon, either. And it doesn't have to be worn in a war. But an ancient helmet shows that at least there was a soldier there. And shoes show that there were people there - civilians. And they left for some undiscovered country without taking their shoes.
Shoes not worn in Unicornville?
__________________
. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft
LemmyCaution is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 10:58 AM   #180
Saggy
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,777
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
A helmet isn't a weapon, either. And it doesn't have to be worn in a war. But an ancient helmet shows that at least there was a soldier there. And shoes show that there were people there - civilians. And they left for some undiscovered country without taking their shoes.
You can quickly review

The Auschwitz Album is the only surviving visual evidence of the process leading to the mass murder at Auschwitz-Birkenau.

which of course includes not one iota of 'visual evidence of the process leading to mass murder', but does document the fact that prisoners at Auschwtiz were given uniforms including shoes and had their heads shaved.
__________________
"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid."
Saggy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 11:00 AM   #181
Dash80
Rave on, Not Fade Away
 
Dash80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,186
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
A helmet isn't a weapon, either. And it doesn't have to be worn in a war. But an ancient helmet shows that at least there was a soldier there. And shoes show that there were people there - civilians. And they left for some undiscovered country without taking their shoes.
Or anything else for that matter. One wonders where Saggy thinks all these butt naked Jews without a single belonging to their names actually went.
__________________
I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings.
Dash80 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 11:03 AM   #182
Dash80
Rave on, Not Fade Away
 
Dash80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,186
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
You can quickly review

The Auschwitz Album is the only surviving visual evidence of the process leading to the mass murder at Auschwitz-Birkenau.

which of course includes not one iota of 'visual evidence of the process leading to mass murder', but does document the fact that prisoners at Auschwtiz were given uniforms including shoes and had their heads shaved.
What happened to the hundreds and thousands of Jews who were deported to Auschwitz, but were never registered to any camp?

The number of deportees far exceeds the numbers actually admitted and registered.
__________________
I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings.

Last edited by Dash80; 20th September 2017 at 11:04 AM.
Dash80 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 11:07 AM   #183
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 11,232
Originally Posted by tinribmancer View Post
And according to kyoon, he's Patrick Stewart Uncle and Andrea Merkel, Tim Kaine & Hillary Clinton's father.

Can't stop laughing when I think of that moment when he posted that.
A full barrel of nutty.
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 11:22 AM   #184
tinribmancer
Hasbarian NWO Templar Cattle
 
tinribmancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,532
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
A helmet isn't a weapon, either. And it doesn't have to be worn in a war. But an ancient helmet shows that at least there was a soldier there. And shoes show that there were people there - civilians. And they left for some undiscovered country without taking their shoes.
But in trutherland the zionists bought all these shoes in some undisclosed shoestore, threw them in an empty chamber and hired a zionist shilling photographer to take that picture.

...yeah, I know. It makes no sense...
__________________
"Bravery Is Not A Function Of Firepower."

JC Denton

tinribmancer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 11:24 AM   #185
LemmyCaution
Master Poster
 
LemmyCaution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,840
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
You can quickly review

The Auschwitz Album is the only surviving visual evidence of the process leading to the mass murder at Auschwitz-Birkenau.

which of course includes not one iota of 'visual evidence of the process leading to mass murder',
False. That is precisely what the photographs in the album show, as you were informed about 2 weeks ago (http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=3494). The album "documents in about 200 photos . . . the arrival, selection, confiscation of property, and preparation for the physical liquidation of a Jewish 'transport' to Auschwitz-Birkenau. . . . the album [ ] document[s] the dispatch of a Jewish transport of deportees in the spring of 1944 . . ." (The album shows more than this, of course, for example, how in the selection process arriving prisoners were processed for a stay in the camp and/or to be shuffled to a worksite/labor camp.)

This particular photograph from the Jacob album, for example, played a key role in Eric Hunt's defection from Holocaust denial.



The photograph shows, according to Pressac, four Hungarian Jews "directed towards the entrance to [Krema V's] vestibule." Hunt's analysis is not entirely convincing but this much is mostly correct, "The woman was brought to this Crematorium, likely via the truck in the photograph, from the train tracks on the other side of the camp. That the elderly were taken by truck from the train tracks on the other side of the camp to these crematories matches with many other witness accounts. This woman may have heard the rumors, or otherwise realized she was going to be executed. She may have heard screams from inside the crematorium. She is being dragged towards a gas chamber in Crematorium 5 . . . There has been and is no reasonable “Revisionist” answer to explain away this photograph." Hunt went on the analyze what is shown in the photo against other evidence, to place it at Krema V. (https://archive.fo/DoGTn#selection-429.0-429.70)

Here is a better interpretation of the photo: https://holocaustcontroversies.blogs...soners-on.html. There is a lot more that can be said about this single photo, showing the minutes before prisoners were taken to the Krema for gassing, but let's leave it here for now, showing how dishonest your repetitious claims are.
__________________
. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft

Last edited by LemmyCaution; 20th September 2017 at 11:38 AM.
LemmyCaution is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 11:38 AM   #186
Dash80
Rave on, Not Fade Away
 
Dash80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,186
Oh I'm sure he'll come along with some kind of denier tantrum about that one.

He won't even deal with the far more explicit Sonderkammando photographs.
__________________
I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings.
Dash80 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 11:42 AM   #187
Saggy
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,777
Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
False. That is precisely what the photographs in the album show, as you were informed about 2 weeks ago (http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=3494). The album "documents in about 200 photos . . . the arrival, selection, confiscation of property, and preparation for the physical liquidation of a Jewish 'transport' to Auschwitz-Birkenau. . . . the album [ ] document[s] the dispatch of a Jewish transport of deportees in the spring of 1944 . . ." (The album shows more than this, of course, for example, how in the selection process arriving prisoners were processed for a stay in the camp and/or to be shuffled to a worksite/labor camp.)

This particular photograph from the Jacob album, for example, played a key role in Eric Hunt's defection from Holocaust denial.

https://i.imgur.com/LdAVfY8.jpg

The photograph shows, according to Pressac, four Hungarian Jews "directed towards the entrance to [Krema V's] vestibule." Hunt's analysis is not entirely convincing but this much is mostly correct, "The woman was brought to this Crematorium, likely via the truck in the photograph, from the train tracks on the other side of the camp. That the elderly were taken by truck from the train tracks on the other side of the camp to these crematories matches with many other witness accounts. This woman may have heard the rumors, or otherwise realized she was going to be executed. She may have heard screams from inside the crematorium. She is being dragged towards a gas chamber in Crematorium 5 . . . There has been and is no reasonable “Revisionist” answer to explain away this photograph." Hunt went on the analyze what is shown in the photo against other evidence, to place it at Krema V. (https://archive.fo/DoGTn#selection-429.0-429.70)

Here is a better interpretation of the photo: https://holocaustcontroversies.blogs...soners-on.html. There is a lot more that can be said about this single photo, showing the minutes before prisoners were taken to the Krema for gassing, but let's leave it here for now, showing how dishonest your repetitious claims are.
Claiming this photo is evidence of the hoax is pure idiocy. Way beyond rational comment.

It shows simultaneously the chutzpah and the desperation of the hoaxers.
__________________
"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid."
Saggy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 11:45 AM   #188
LemmyCaution
Master Poster
 
LemmyCaution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,840
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Claiming this photo is evidence of the hoax is pure idiocy. Way beyond rational comment.

It shows simultaneously the chutzpah and the desperation of the hoaxers.
Another example of the strength of your analysis, I see.

As for the desperation of hoaxers, I myself didn't see anything that special about the photo: but it helped convince Eric Hunt, hardly a mainstream advocate of the Holocaust or a "lying Jew," in large measure through his study of the physical features in the photo, that it could show nothing other than the minutes before victims went to the Krema V gas chambers.

Do you ever have anything of substance to say? Or is it always handwaving and scoffing with you?
__________________
. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft
LemmyCaution is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 11:48 AM   #189
LemmyCaution
Master Poster
 
LemmyCaution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,840
Originally Posted by Dash80 View Post
Oh I'm sure he'll come along with some kind of denier tantrum about that one.

He won't even deal with the far more explicit Sonderkammando photographs.
Brief tantrum: more argument from incredulity.

Actually, Saggy doesn't deal with anything. I post mainly - riffing on deniers' obsessions - to provide readers with evidence based material and perhaps initiate some discussions amongst those truly interested. (Saggy's obsessions suspiciously mirror those of the incompetent creator of the holohoax101 website - which is presented in strikingly familiar terms, eh.)

That said, Saggy's tactics sometimes also need calling out
__________________
. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft

Last edited by LemmyCaution; 20th September 2017 at 11:53 AM.
LemmyCaution is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 11:53 AM   #190
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 72,392
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Claiming this photo is evidence of the hoax is pure idiocy. Way beyond rational comment.
It seems that rational comments are just something you won't do.

This is just more evidence of you ignoring everything you come across that doesn't agree with what you already believe. Your position on this issue is not evidence-based.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 12:17 PM   #191
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,812
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
You at least seem to understand the question, but .... a list of links won't do.

I could ask ..... prove the holocaust happened, and you could respond ...

see.. www.ushmm.org

but that ain't gonna get it.

If you can present and discuss some element of physical evidence, do so.

If you can present one credible Jewish eyewitness and discuss their testimony, along with corroborating testimony, and physical or documentary evidence that supports their testimony do so.

If you can name one person who was gassed at Auschwitz and present the evidence for it, do so.

Otherwise the challenge is unanswered.
I am calling you out as a bare face liar. Physical evidence, credible witnesses, people who were gassed and the evidence has been presented on numerous occasions.

Meanwhile, you refuse to evidence your own beliefs. Which makes you a hypocrite.

You are a hypocrite and a liar.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 12:33 PM   #192
sadhatter
Philosopher
 
sadhatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,879
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
A point of clarification for the non-hasbara readers - to prove that the holocaust is a hoax I don't have to prove that it never happened, all I have to do is prove that the 'evidence' presented for the hoax is false, and as is always the case, a deliberate lie.

That is why every lying eyewitness, each one of them supported by Yad Vashem, the USHMM, Hillel, etc, all prove that there is an ongoing hoax. Irene Zisblatt lecturing at a university is proof of the hoax.

The phony gas chamber at krema1 is proof of a hoax.

The tortured confessions of Germans (the prime example is that of Hoess) prove a hoax.

The existence of the hasbara is part of the hoax, it proves a hoax. The endless idiotic comments on the forum are all part of the hoax and demonstrate the hoax.
So if one person is found lying about something it didn't happen?

Okay, I dig that, Hitler was eight feet tall.

Now by your logic Hitler is a hoax, as I'm sure you know I was lying. Seeing as he is a hoax now, you can pack up your ball and go home, no need to defend someone who doesn't exist.
sadhatter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 12:34 PM   #193
Dash80
Rave on, Not Fade Away
 
Dash80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,186
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Claiming this photo is evidence of the hoax is pure idiocy. Way beyond rational comment.

It shows simultaneously the chutzpah and the desperation of the hoaxers.
So perhaps you'd like to offer your own RATIONAL analysis to explain why a distressed woman is being lead towards the crematorium?
__________________
I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings.
Dash80 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 12:41 PM   #194
Elagabalus
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,415
Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Brief tantrum: more argument from incredulity.

Actually, Saggy doesn't deal with anything. I post mainly - riffing on deniers' obsessions - to provide readers with evidence based material and perhaps initiate some discussions amongst those truly interested. (Saggy's obsessions suspiciously mirror those of the incompetent creator of the holohoax101 website - which is presented in strikingly familiar terms, eh.)

That said, Saggy's tactics sometimes also need calling out
Yes, Saggy. Is holohoax101 your baby?
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 12:48 PM   #195
Elagabalus
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,415
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Claiming this photo is evidence of the hoax is pure idiocy. Way beyond rational comment...
shorter Saggy: I'm running away from this because I believe in a silly Conspiracy Theory and cannot provide any evidence of my claims.
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 01:07 PM   #196
Saggy
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,777
Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
So if one person is found lying about something it didn't happen?
Not 'one person', Nobel prize winner and first director of the USHMM tells prima facie whoppers in his book 'Night' which I haven't even gotten to. The 'prima facie' is important, everyone knows that Wiesel is lying on first reading.

Spielberg chose 5 from his collection of 50,000 and they are all prima facie idiotic liars, Zisblatt is just the most exterme example, as Eric Hunt demonstrates in his movie 'The Last Days'.

A. Bomba is one of the most idiotic, and he is featured on the USHMM site.

Ditto Venezia.

So, it's not a drunk in the bar that is lying, all these 'eyewitnesses' are endorsed by the entire holohoax establishtment, thus, the whole establishment is lying.

Now, if you can formulate a rational response, please do so.
__________________
"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid."
Saggy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 01:15 PM   #197
Elagabalus
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,415
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Not 'one person', Nobel prize winner and first director of the USHMM tells prima facie whoppers in his book 'Night' which I haven't even gotten to. The 'prima facie' is important, everyone knows that Wiesel is lying on first reading.

Spielberg chose 5 from his collection of 50,000 and they are all prima facie idiotic liars, Zisblatt is just the most exterme example, as Eric Hunt demonstrates in his movie 'The Last Days'.

A. Bomba is one of the most idiotic, and he is featured on the USHMM site.

Ditto Venezia.

So, it's not a drunk in the bar that is lying, all these 'eyewitnesses' are endorsed by the entire holohoax establishtment, thus, the whole establishment is lying.

Now, if you can formulate a rational response, please do so.
You have not, as of yet, fully articulated the reasons why you think Bomba and Venezia are lying.
Your old sig line with Venezia(?) only showed your ignorance of idiomatic expressions used by a non-native English speaker.
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 01:33 PM   #198
LemmyCaution
Master Poster
 
LemmyCaution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,840
Be sure to include adjectives when replying to Saggy - he uses them instead of evidence. Saggy's idea of "rational response": ". . . prima facie whoppers . . . everyone knows . . . all prima facie idiotic liars . . . the most exterme [sic] example . . . one of the most idiotic . . . thus, the whole establishment is lying."
__________________
. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft

Last edited by LemmyCaution; 20th September 2017 at 01:36 PM.
LemmyCaution is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 01:43 PM   #199
LemmyCaution
Master Poster
 
LemmyCaution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,840
Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
You have not, as of yet, fully articulated the reasons why you think Bomba and Venezia are lying.
And he's been proven wrong on the one claim he made about Wiesel
__________________
. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft
LemmyCaution is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 01:43 PM   #200
Saggy
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,777
Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
You have not, as of yet, fully articulated the reasons why you think Bomba and Venezia are lying.
Your old sig line with Venezia(?) only showed your ignorance of idiomatic expressions used by a non-native English speaker.
Anyone who studies any of the witness testimony will quickly discover that it is prima facie absurd. Another of my favorites is F. Meuller, who is by the way according to Yad Vashem director Yehuda Bauer the only man who saw the Jewish people die and lived to tell about it, and his testimony is incomparably absurd.

Don't take my word for it. But do note that the challenge to name one credible Jewish eyewitness and discuss their testimony, along with any corroborating testimony, and any physical or documentary evidence that supports their testimony, goes unanswered.
__________________
"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid."
Saggy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:00 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.