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Old 31st December 2017, 01:56 AM   #41
Octavo
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Originally Posted by GodMark2 View Post
That's a fifth, not a quart.
No, it's a quart. Don't argue beer with me - it's a local thing!

Wiki: the European and Australian standard large bottle is 750-milliliter (25.4*U.S.*fl*oz; 26.4*imp*fl*oz). In South Africa and Canada they are referred to as a "quart";
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Old 31st December 2017, 06:51 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Senex View Post
Yes, their first victory is getting you to state you are happy in both systems. Stop being a pawn.
You're right, and damn their eyes! I'm going back to bushels and roods and stuff. The back cover of my school exercise books used to be covered with obscure measures and their conversions; bushels, pecks, furlongs, chains, fathoms ... happy days
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Old 31st December 2017, 01:13 PM   #43
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Furlongs FTW!
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Old 31st December 2017, 02:13 PM   #44
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At this juncture, I would like to give a very special shout-out to those most northern of North Americans - those affable Canucks, for finally taking the bull by the horns and bestowing upon the world an object that finally unites metric and imperial measurements.

And so without further adieu, Ladies and Gentlemen, Mesdames et Messieurs ... I give you ...

The Metric Cup!!
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Old 31st December 2017, 04:12 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Furlongs FTW!
A grain - "The unit was based on the weight of a single grain of barley, considered equivalent to ​1 1⁄3 grains of wheat. The fundamental unit of the pre-1527 English weight system known as Tower weights, was a different sort of grain known as the "wheat grain". The Tower wheat grain was defined as exactly ​45⁄64 of a troy grain."

So, that's cleared that up then Launch the next Mars mission in grains, but let's all be sure it's the 'Tower wheat grain' 45/64ths ??? wtf
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Old 31st December 2017, 04:45 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
At this juncture, I would like to give a very special shout-out to those most northern of North Americans - those affable Canucks, for finally taking the bull by the horns and bestowing upon the world an object that finally unites metric and imperial measurements.

And so without further adieu, Ladies and Gentlemen, Mesdames et Messieurs ... I give you ...

The Metric Cup!!
You appear to be a little confused. This is the link to the metric cup http://www.metric-conversions.org/vo...-to-liters.htm

What is the metric cup? Answer -
Quote:
Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and some other members of the Commonwealth of Nationsbeing former British colonies that have since metricatedemploy a "metric cup" of 250 millilitres.[5] Although derived from the metric system, it is not an SI unit.[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_(unit)#Metric_cup
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Old 31st December 2017, 05:15 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
You appear to be a little confused. This is the link to the metric cup http://www.metric-conversions.org/vo...-to-liters.htm

What is the metric cup? Answer -


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_(unit)#Metric_cup
Don't get snooty with me. Is it not a metric cup?
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Old 31st December 2017, 05:27 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Don't get snooty with me. Is it not a metric cup?
The link you provided did not go to a metric cup. It went to a Canadian cup, which is not metric. So I gave the link that did go to the metric cup.
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Old 31st December 2017, 09:52 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Monza View Post
I wish the US would have followed through with the conversion to metric in the '70s.
Trouble is that unlike pretty much the rest of the world, the US made it optional to change and not mandatory, so no one did.

Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
A British ex-pat co-worker taught me a neat trick for C to F: Double it. Subtract 10%. Add 32. That's actually exactly correct. The other direction is a bit more complicated.
C -> F is 1.8C + 32
F -> C is( F - 32)/1.8
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Old 1st January 2018, 02:29 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Trouble is that unlike pretty much the rest of the world, the US made it optional to change and not mandatory, so no one did.



C -> F is 1.8C + 32
I hesitate to unleash this upon the world but here's what I do. In this instance I think it's best to express 1.8 as a fraction 9/5.

The + 32 is only needed to shift the freezing point so we won't worry about it for now.

Put 1 C into that formula and it rounds up to 2 F.
Put 2 C into that formula and it rounds up to 4 F.
Put 3 C into that formula and it rounds down to 5 F.

This is what I call the 2,4,5 rule.

Back to the formula C -> F is 9/5xC + 32

Now only use Celsius temps that are multiples of 5 and then add (or subtract) the remainder and convert it to ˚F using the 2,4,5 rule.

So 22 C is 20 C + 2 C,

20 5 = 4, 4 x 9 = 36, + 32 is 68. Now convert the 2 C which is 4 F (from the above rule) so 22 C is 72F (68+4).

23 C is 73 F (68+5)

For 24 C use 25 C and subtract 1 C.

25 5 = 5, 5 x 9 = 45, + 32 is 77. Now we subtract the 1 C which is 2 F, so 24 C is 75 F .

C'est simple, non?
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Old 1st January 2018, 03:34 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
You say "litre", I say "quart".
Originally Posted by Octavo View Post
You say quart, I say 750 milliliters.
Litre
Quart
Quart
750ml
Let's call the whole thing off
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Old 1st January 2018, 04:19 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Monza View Post
As an engineer in the US, we have to work with both Imperial and SI units. We have several suppliers in the US that will use Imperial units for fabrication drawings, and then our customers are mostly international and require interface dimensions in SI. Certainly, the metric system is much easier to use and requires less rote memorization for conversion. Crossbow's method above is correct and how I deal with the units.

There are 12 inches in a foot, three feet in a yard, 5280 feet in a mile. It's not the most useful system. Then you get into pound force and pound mass, the use of slugs (which most Americans are not even aware of). I wish the US would have followed through with the conversion to metric in the '70s.

Studying engineering in Australia years ago the units we used were a complete mess. In one subject we used pound force and hence slugs for mass and in another subject pounds mass and poundals for force.

I was so pleased to see the change to metric and embraced this system of units completely. It is so logical and easy to use compared to the imperial stuff.

Sometimes when confronted with a reactionary imperial unit user I start giving measurements in cubits.
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Old 1st January 2018, 04:29 PM   #53
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Shoe sizes are in barleycorns. One barleycorn is a third of an inch. They obfuscate it a bit by not starting at zero and having different starting points for men's and women's shoes - but it's still barleycorns.
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Old 1st January 2018, 05:33 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I hesitate to unleash this upon the world but here's what I do. In this instance I think it's best to express 1.8 as a fraction 9/5.
Double it and add 30.

Temperature's 5 degrees? Double it, 5 and 5 is 10, then 30 is 40. Same old 40 degrees.

And for a six-pack? 6 and 6 is 12, add 30 and you've got 42 metric beers!
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Old 1st January 2018, 06:10 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by alexi_drago View Post
Thanks again, is that a common method and is it common historically?
And are there measuring instruments (rulers tapes micrometers etc) that measure decimal feet?

Surveyors (in the U.S.) routinely use tapes and grade rods that measure in decimal feet. Site drawings (as opposed to structural and architectural drawings) also generally give measurements and elevations in decimal feet.

I was sent to one (of company I was working for at the time) project to transfer and install some elevation benchmarks around the jobsite. The helper they gave me brought out ... unbeknownst to me ... a grade rod marked in feet and inches. I hadn't ever seen one before. They must have special ordered it for some superintendent who couldn't work in decimal feet without a calculator. (It's actually easy to convert in your head to two significant decimal places, and that is generally good enough in the field. The instruments being used are rarely more accurate than that.)

When looked at through an instrument at a couple of hundred feet they don't necessarily stand out as different ... until you realize that you are reading something at eleven tenths of a foot.

Fortunately I caught it before I had a lot of work to do over.

After that I insisted on having all of my own equipment to carry from job to job, and refused to use anything that happened to be on-site when I got there unless I took the time to check and calibrate it myself.
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Old 1st January 2018, 06:12 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
A British ex-pat co-worker taught me a neat trick for C to F: Double it. Subtract 10%. Add 32. That's actually exactly correct. The other direction is a bit more complicated.
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Trouble is that unlike pretty much the rest of the world, the US made it optional to change and not mandatory, so no one did.



C -> F is 1.8C + 32
F -> C is( F - 32)/1.8
I'm well aware of that. What I listed is an easy and accurate way to do it IN YOUR HEAD.

Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I hesitate to unleash this upon the world but here's what I do. In this instance I think it's best to express 1.8 as a fraction 9/5.

The + 32 is only needed to shift the freezing point so we won't worry about it for now.

Put 1 C into that formula and it rounds up to 2 F.
Put 2 C into that formula and it rounds up to 4 F.
Put 3 C into that formula and it rounds down to 5 F.

This is what I call the 2,4,5 rule.

Back to the formula C -> F is 9/5xC + 32

Now only use Celsius temps that are multiples of 5 and then add (or subtract) the remainder and convert it to ˚F using the 2,4,5 rule.

So 22 C is 20 C + 2 C,

20 5 = 4, 4 x 9 = 36, + 32 is 68. Now convert the 2 C which is 4 F (from the above rule) so 22 C is 72F (68+4).

23 C is 73 F (68+5)

For 24 C use 25 C and subtract 1 C.

25 5 = 5, 5 x 9 = 45, + 32 is 77. Now we subtract the 1 C which is 2 F, so 24 C is 75 F .

C'est simple, non?
Non.

Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Studying engineering in Australia years ago the units we used were a complete mess. In one subject we used pound force and hence slugs for mass and in another subject pounds mass and poundals for force.
Same as when I studied it in the USA. Of course, you sometimes have to use that 9.8 factor in the Metric world.

Originally Posted by BowlOfRed View Post
Double it and add 30.
Not precise. Mine is.

Some metric enthusiasts proudly point out that they use mass instead of volume when measuring out cooking products. Except they aren't. They're using weight. On the moon, my cup of flour will still be a cup of flour. Your 60 grams of sugar will be 10. Unless you use a balance scale, of course.
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Old 1st January 2018, 06:41 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Shoe sizes are in barleycorns. One barleycorn is a third of an inch. They obfuscate it a bit by not starting at zero and having different starting points for men's and women's shoes - but it's still barleycorns.
To be fair, Euro (Continental) shoe sizes are in stitch lengths - very non SI!
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Old 1st January 2018, 06:54 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
<snip>

Sometimes when confronted with a reactionary imperial unit user I start giving measurements in cubits.

Which cubits?



There is a little book called Pocket Reference by Thomas Glover which packs more reference material, conversions, and formulas for more different things than just about any other paper product you can hold in one hand. Everything from electrical formulas and area codes to angles of repose for just about any granular material you can think of, to units of measurement you've never even had nightmares about. (Don't ask. ) Back before smart phones and the Internet it was the sort of thing you didn't know you needed ... until you did.

It is (was?) often found stacked next to the cash register in survey equipment shops. So of course I had to get one.

I once looked up cubits just for the heck of it. Somewhat to my surprise I found at least twenty different ones listed, with lengths varying from around fourteen inches to over twenty two.

You'll need to be moar specifical.

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Old 1st January 2018, 07:11 PM   #59
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The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it.
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Old 1st January 2018, 07:14 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Octavo View Post
No, it's a quart. Don't argue beer with me - it's a local thing!

Wiki: the European and Australian standard large bottle is 750-milliliter (25.4*U.S.*fl*oz; 26.4*imp*fl*oz). In South Africa and Canada they are referred to as a "quart";
In pre-metric days, the standard beer bottle size was 26 oz (738.738 mL). When Australia went metric the size was increased slightly to 750 mL so that the breweries could sell more beer.

There is a parallel in the milk industry. The marketers weren't prepared to sell milk by the half-litre since that could mean that people who previously bought milk by the pint (568.26 mL) might decrease their milk consumption accordingly. So the new milk bottle size became 600 ML.

BTW 26 oz is not a "quart"er of anything. However, by calling it a "quart" if gives the buyer the impression that they are buying a quarter of a gallon of beer (even though 1/4 of a gallon is actually 40 oz). It's the same reason why in many states, a 15 oz beer glass is referred to as a "pint" (even though 1 pint = 20 oz).
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Old 1st January 2018, 08:48 PM   #61
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This thread proves my point. Too many choices - just do as the Americans do.
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Old 1st January 2018, 09:12 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
In pre-metric days, the standard beer bottle size was 26 oz (738.738 mL). When Australia went metric the size was increased slightly to 750 mL so that the breweries could sell more beer.

There is a parallel in the milk industry. The marketers weren't prepared to sell milk by the half-litre since that could mean that people who previously bought milk by the pint (568.26 mL) might decrease their milk consumption accordingly. So the new milk bottle size became 600 ML.

BTW 26 oz is not a "quart"er of anything. However, by calling it a "quart" if gives the buyer the impression that they are buying a quarter of a gallon of beer (even though 1/4 of a gallon is actually 40 oz). It's the same reason why in many states, a 15 oz beer glass is referred to as a "pint" (even though 1 pint = 20 oz).
In America:

1 gallon = 128 oz
1 quart = 1/4 gallon = 32 oz
1 pint = 1/2 quart = 16 oz (≈ 473 mL)
1 cup = 1/2 pint = 8 oz
1 gill = 1/2 cup = 4 oz

Many US bars will serve beers using an 'English Pint' of ≈ 568 mL, which is not a proper pint measure in America. 25.6 oz is, in fact, 1/5 of a gallon, commonly called a fifth in America (for apparently unknowable reasons).

ETA: I did, in fact, once see a bar that advertised "The Biggest Pints in Town". It was pretty effective. Because after that, I really needed a drink.
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Old 1st January 2018, 09:38 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by GodMark2 View Post
In America:

1 gallon = 128 oz
1 quart = 1/4 gallon = 32 oz
1 pint = 1/2 quart = 16 oz (≈ 473 mL)
1 cup = 1/2 pint = 8 oz
1 gill = 1/2 cup = 4 oz

Many US bars will serve beers using an 'English Pint' of ≈ 568 mL, which is not a proper pint measure in America. 25.6 oz is, in fact, 1/5 of a gallon, commonly called a fifth in America (for apparently unknowable reasons).
Exactly! Foreigners are foolish buying important food in mL.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 06:04 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Little 10 Toes View Post
The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it.
I wonder how much time you spent on research and calculations for that post
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Old 2nd January 2018, 06:49 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Octavo View Post
No, it's a quart. Don't argue beer with me - it's a local thing!

Wiki: the European and Australian standard large bottle is 750-milliliter (25.4*U.S.*fl*oz; 26.4*imp*fl*oz). In South Africa and Canada they are referred to as a "quart";
I'm a scotch man myself- (or tinnies for beer) but here the 750ml is always referred to as a longneck, the smaller stubbie is 375ml

Apart from beer I have never seen a 750ml bottle used at all, the nearest `standard' sized bottle in common use for all other stuff is 600ml or 1.25l for soft drinks, or 1l or 600ml for milk
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Old 2nd January 2018, 07:09 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Which.....................................
There is a little book called Pocket Reference by Thomas Glover which packs more reference material, conversions, and formulas for more different things than just about any other paper product you can hold in one hand. Everything from electrical formulas and area codes to angles of repose for just about any granular material you can think of, to units of measurement you've never even had nightmares about. (Don't ask. ) Back before smart phones and the Internet it was the sort of thing you didn't know you needed ... until you did.
..................................................
I have another reference book by Thomas J. Glover and Richard A, Young.
It's pocket size but 864 pages long and very small print.
"Measure for Measure" 2002
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Old 2nd January 2018, 07:15 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Dabop View Post
I'm a scotch man myself- (or tinnies for beer) but here the 750ml is always referred to as a longneck, the smaller stubbie is 375ml

Apart from beer I have never seen a 750ml bottle used at all, the nearest `standard' sized bottle in common use for all other stuff is 600ml or 1.25l for soft drinks, or 1l or 600ml for milk
I am surprised Stubbie is an English word! Standard beet bottles in Germany are 500 ml, but I, and most of my friends, prefer the shorter Stubbies, which are 0.33 ml
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:43 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post
I have another reference book by Thomas J. Glover and Richard A, Young.
It's pocket size but 864 pages long and very small print.
"Measure for Measure" 2002
Hang on! Didn't Shakespeare write that one?
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:55 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Dabop View Post
I'm a scotch man myself- (or tinnies for beer) but here the 750ml is always referred to as a longneck, the smaller stubbie is 375ml

Apart from beer I have never seen a 750ml bottle used at all, the nearest `standard' sized bottle in common use for all other stuff is 600ml or 1.25l for soft drinks, or 1l or 600ml for milk
What does wine come in? It's all in 750's, or multiples thereof, here.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 10:32 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post
I have another reference book by Thomas J. Glover and Richard A, Young.
It's pocket size but 864 pages long and very small print.
"Measure for Measure" 2002

That's roughly the same format as Pocket Reference. Reading glasses recommended for older eyes.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 10:46 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
What does wine come in? It's all in 750's, or multiples thereof, here.
Spirits too, for the most part. Hard liquor bottles have been metric in the US for a long time. There are 1 litre bottles available, but 750 ml is a lot more common, and
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Old 2nd January 2018, 12:47 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
What does wine come in? It's all in 750's, or multiples thereof, here.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 12:50 PM   #73
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I do have to ask...

Is this AS a big a deal as it's sometimes made out to be?

I mean I can't image that compared to say translating a language which has thousands of words and things like inflection and nuance and stuff can easily get "lost in translation" (and with extremely disparate languages you could imagine can never be 100% perfectly translated) or even things like time zones and which side of the street the car is designed for or any one of take your pick out of hundreds upon thousands of regional and country variations in standards and standardization really a thing?

If you're a American doing business with... Japan (or vice versa) is a simple, even automated math equation to change Kilometers or Miles really even a drop in the bucket compared to having to the entirely different linguistic root, alphabet, sentence structure, grammar and so forth language to the other?

At least with Metric/Imperial and Imperial/Metric you have a hard and fast mathematical way to convert the objective data with no loss of... fidelity or detail or nuance or context something that can't be said for translating almost any other

In a world where there... what a good several dozen "international" languages and countless languages in some level of common use, hundreds of different organizations trying to enforce various "official" standards on everything from traffic to how to make a cup of tea is the 4.4 percent of the global population that uses a, admittedly nonsensical, measurement system really causing that much of a problem?

I hate the Imperial system and do think America should go metric, but trying to paint this as America being some sort of amazingly weird outlier that's causing all these problems seems a bit much.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 07:51 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
I do have to ask...

Is this AS a big a deal as it's sometimes made out to be?

I mean I can't image that compared to say translating a language which has thousands of words and things like inflection and nuance and stuff can easily get "lost in translation" (and with extremely disparate languages you could imagine can never be 100% perfectly translated) or even things like time zones and which side of the street the car is designed for or any one of take your pick out of hundreds upon thousands of regional and country variations in standards and standardization really a thing?

If you're a American doing business with... Japan (or vice versa) is a simple, even automated math equation to change Kilometers or Miles really even a drop in the bucket compared to having to the entirely different linguistic root, alphabet, sentence structure, grammar and so forth language to the other?

At least with Metric/Imperial and Imperial/Metric you have a hard and fast mathematical way to convert the objective data with no loss of... fidelity or detail or nuance or context something that can't be said for translating almost any other

In a world where there... what a good several dozen "international" languages and countless languages in some level of common use, hundreds of different organizations trying to enforce various "official" standards on everything from traffic to how to make a cup of tea is the 4.4 percent of the global population that uses a, admittedly nonsensical, measurement system really causing that much of a problem?

I hate the Imperial system and do think America should go metric, but trying to paint this as America being some sort of amazingly weird outlier that's causing all these problems seems a bit much.
It is a serious problem. For example The Mars Climate OrbiterWP failed due to this issue.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:12 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
It is a serious problem. For example The Mars Climate OrbiterWP failed due to this issue.

And then there's Canada's version of the "Miracle on the Hudson". The strange story of the Gimli Glider.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 09:37 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Didn't you give your final goodbye back in post 44?
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Old 2nd January 2018, 10:02 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Hex requires new number digits. Using alpha characters would confuse the public. For octal, we just need to teach people that thumbs are not fingers. Or amputate the pinky from every newborn for a couple of generations. It's only useful for extending when you hold a teacup anyway.

The one "Imperial" measure I strongly prefer is Fahrenheit. The range of zero to 100 nicely approximates the normal range of temperatures in temperate climes. And the gradations in Celsius are too coarse. Anyhow, Celsius himself wanted zero to be hot and 100 cold.
Nonsense. We just use numbers after the decimal point.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 12:54 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
BTW 26 oz is not a "quart"er of anything. However, by calling it a "quart" if gives the buyer the impression that they are buying a quarter of a gallon of beer (even though 1/4 of a gallon is actually 40 oz).
That's what I find interesting. We've always had metric, so buying a quarter of a gallon wouldn't make sense here because no one knows what a gallon is.

I've actually always thought it was a quart be cause it was three quarters of a litre....
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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:32 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Octavo View Post
That's what I find interesting. We've always had metric, so buying a quarter of a gallon wouldn't make sense here because no one knows what a gallon is.
One quarter of a litre (250 mL or 8.3 oz which is the dieter's size) does not sound as exciting as one quarter of a gallon (even if you don't know what a gallon is).

Originally Posted by Octavo View Post
I've actually always thought it was a quart be cause it was three quarters of a litre....
3/4 = 1/4. Hmm. It's not as silly as some of the ways that I have seen to spin measurements.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 02:49 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
One quarter of a litre (250 mL or 8.3 oz which is the dieter's size) does not sound as exciting as one quarter of a gallon (even if you don't know what a gallon is).


3/4 = 1/4. Hmm. It's not as silly as some of the ways that I have seen to spin measurements.
Everyone knows that 250ml (1/4 litre ) is a cup. It's not exciting at all - no one could see a quart of beer and think, "that looks like a cup of beer". You look at it and say holy ****, that's a big bottle of beer! I just never ever made the connection that it might be considered a quarter gallon. 750 ml is three "quart"ers of a litre!

It all makes sense to me... but then I'm long on bitcoin, so I may be a moron.
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