ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 8th January 2018, 09:34 PM   #1
Thor 2
Illuminator
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
Gay Imams

Well there you have it. Gay Imams are coming out and wanting to be heard.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-2...uslims/7341142

What do our Muslim posters think about this development?

More Imams are coming out as gay and preaching that homosexuality isn't condemned in Islam. They're part of a global push for a more liberal interpretation of the Koran that acknowledges diversity and empowers mosques to welcome sexual minorities.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2018, 09:37 AM   #2
fuelair
Cythraul Enfys
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 57,091
Cool!
__________________
There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed.

Wash this space!

We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2018, 12:56 PM   #3
Thor 2
Illuminator
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
I don't have a copy of The Koran and wouldn't feel that motivated to read it if I had, so cannot comment on whether homosexuality gets a mention in it's pages.

I read that homosexuality is dealt with very harshly in many muslim countries, so wonder what holy scripts are referred to in justifying this.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2018, 12:58 PM   #4
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 14,232
Cool! And if my understanding of the prevalent views among those most in power in this religion is correct, extraordinarily brave. I am impressed.
Giordano is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2018, 02:25 PM   #5
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,413
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
I don't have a copy of The Koran and wouldn't feel that motivated to read it if I had, so cannot comment on whether homosexuality gets a mention in it's pages.

I read that homosexuality is dealt with very harshly in many muslim countries, so wonder what holy scripts are referred to in justifying this.
The Hadith does unequivocally condemn male homosexual acts. The Qur’an (4:16) demands unspecified punishment for men guilty of lewdness together unless they repent.
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
----------------------------------------------
Proud woo denier
----------------------------------------------
“That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” -Christopher Hitchens-
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2018, 02:48 PM   #6
Thor 2
Illuminator
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
The Hadith does unequivocally condemn male homosexual acts. The Qur’an (4:16) demands unspecified punishment for men guilty of lewdness together unless they repent.

This is most confusing. The Qur’an (4:16) says:

Quote:
And the two who commit it among you, dishonor them both. But if they repent and correct themselves, leave them alone. Indeed, Allah is ever Accepting of repentance and Merciful.
And this is preceded by (4:15) which says:

Quote:
Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way.
No mention of homosexuality here.

Yes I assumed the serious condemnation of homosexuality may have come from the Hadith (a hand me down from the Torah?).

It's interesting that the Muslims are so heavy about this stuff but the Jews are not. Well maybe the ultra orthodox ones that line up at the Wailing Wall do.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2018, 02:51 PM   #7
gerdbonk
Penultimate Amazing
 
gerdbonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles de Porciúncula
Posts: 13,122
Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
The Hadith does unequivocally condemn male homosexual acts. The Qur’an (4:16) demands unspecified punishment for men guilty of lewdness together unless they repent.
Do they have to repent after every act of lewdness? Can they, say, run a tab and repent at the end of the week?
__________________
I'll bet you didn't notice that I was a registered Emotional Support Animal when I wrote this.
gerdbonk is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2018, 04:43 PM   #8
Thor 2
Illuminator
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
Originally Posted by gerdbonk View Post
Do they have to repent after every act of lewdness? Can they, say, run a tab and repent at the end of the week?

Yes, just like the Catholic confessional thing. I wouldn't put it past the Islam faithful to borrow a few things from the RC. They may draw the line at the converting wafers idea however.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2018, 04:48 PM   #9
fuelair
Cythraul Enfys
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 57,091
Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
The Hadith does unequivocally condemn male homosexual acts. The Qur’an (4:16) demands unspecified punishment for men guilty of lewdness together unless they repent.
I am fairly sure that in the Arabian nights there is mention of at least a camel. It has been a while and we speak of the Burton translation which is much more open in detail than the others I have run into.
__________________
There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed.

Wash this space!

We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2018, 05:36 PM   #10
sir drinks-a-lot
Illuminator
 
sir drinks-a-lot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cole Valley, CA
Posts: 3,147
If nothing else, the Gay Imams" is a cool name for a punk band.
__________________
I drink to the general joy o' th' whole table. --William Shakespeare
sir drinks-a-lot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2018, 06:21 PM   #11
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,987
Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
I am fairly sure that in the Arabian nights there is mention of at least a camel. It has been a while and we speak of the Burton translation which is much more open in detail than the others I have run into.
Yes Burton had a few things to comment on:

Link below but an annoying paywall

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...nalCode=gncc20

Last edited by Hans; 9th January 2018 at 06:23 PM.
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2018, 01:21 PM   #12
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,413
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
This is most confusing. The Qur’an (4:16) says:



And this is preceded by (4:15) which says:



No mention of homosexuality here.

Yes I assumed the serious condemnation of homosexuality may have come from the Hadith (a hand me down from the Torah?).

It's interesting that the Muslims are so heavy about this stuff but the Jews are not. Well maybe the ultra orthodox ones that line up at the Wailing Wall do.
I'm quite new to studying the Qur'an, Been trying to recall verses without looking. How many lashes do I get?
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
----------------------------------------------
Proud woo denier
----------------------------------------------
“That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” -Christopher Hitchens-
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2018, 01:48 PM   #13
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,135
Gay Imams is the name of my The Clash cover band. We cover "Rock the Casbah" in drag.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2018, 01:56 PM   #14
Porpoise of Life
Illuminator
 
Porpoise of Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,101
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Gay Imams is the name of my The Clash cover band. We cover "Rock the Casbah" in drag.
Does the Sharif like it?
Porpoise of Life is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2018, 01:58 PM   #15
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,413
Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)"

This was the verse I was trying to remember.

Unless brimstone now means gifts from bed bath and beyond.
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
----------------------------------------------
Proud woo denier
----------------------------------------------
“That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” -Christopher Hitchens-
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2018, 02:02 PM   #16
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,135
Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)"

This was the verse I was trying to remember.

Unless brimstone now means gifts from bed bath and beyond.
I think brimstone comes from the store's "Beyond" department.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2018, 02:03 PM   #17
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,135
Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Does the Sharif like it?
The Sharif... does not like it.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2018, 03:46 PM   #18
Thor 2
Illuminator
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)"

This was the verse I was trying to remember.

Unless brimstone now means gifts from bed bath and beyond.

Thanks for that Nay_Sayer.

I Googled those verses and obtained the following:

One Omar Ibrahim made the comment in reference to the verses:

Quote:
These are very unambiguous verses. I think anyone with a high school education should be able to read and discern these verses.
None the less he does give his interpretation and there does seem some ambiguity.

The interpretation of the verses is from SAHIH INTERNATIONAL.

Quote:
7.80
And [We had sent] Lot when he said to his people, "Do you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds?
Omar says:

Quote:
Lot was a Prophet to His people. These people were literally drowning in sins. There was just no limit to their sinning. He preached to them, warned them to desist from evil to no avail.
Again:

Quote:
7.81
Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people."
Omar says:

Quote:
Not often does the Quran mention the specifics of sins committed by people. But here, the sin of sodomy is so repulsive that it had to be mentioned. There's sinning, then there's sodomy- which is on a level all by itself.
Omar really fleshes this part out and reveals the level of his homophobia. From my personal experience, homophobes like to refer to sodomy as a homosexual thing. This brings to mind the words of Stephen Fry who, referring to the results of a survey, claimed that sodomy (anal sex), was more common in heterosexual than homosexual intercourse.

Again:

Quote:
7.82
But the answer of his people was only that they said, "Evict them from your city! Indeed, they are men who keep themselves pure."
Omar says:

Quote:
For speaking out, they decided to kick him out of the city.
See the difference?

Again:

Quote:
7.83
So We saved him and his family, except for his wife; she was of those who remained [with the evildoers].
Omar says:

Quote:
God doesn't abandon His ambassadors and so when they thought they were hurting him, God saved and protected him except of course for his wife who decided not to go with them. The Quran describes her as “she was of those who remained”. This is because God ordered Lot to leave the city as it was already marked for total annihilation. Instructions were given on the day and time they should leave the city. Lot's wife chose to stay.
Now this is interesting because we have gone from the fellow townspeople kicking Lot out to God ordering him to get out.

Of course Lot's wife doesn't get saved because .... well just because.

Again:

Quote:
7.84
And We rained upon them a rain [of stones]. Then see how was the end of the criminals.
Omar says:

Quote:
After the evil doers failed to heed all warnings, Allah made sure none of them lived to see the next day.
No real argument with this, but I wonder if the Quran makes mention of Lot heading for the hills with his two daughters, who he then has an incestuous relationship with and knocks the two of them up. Must read on.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th January 2018, 12:44 AM   #19
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,413
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Thanks for that Nay_Sayer.

I Googled those verses and obtained the following:

One Omar Ibrahim made the comment in reference to the verses:



None the less he does give his interpretation and there does seem some ambiguity.

The interpretation of the verses is from SAHIH INTERNATIONAL.



Omar says:



Again:



Omar says:



Omar really fleshes this part out and reveals the level of his homophobia. From my personal experience, homophobes like to refer to sodomy as a homosexual thing. This brings to mind the words of Stephen Fry who, referring to the results of a survey, claimed that sodomy (anal sex), was more common in heterosexual than homosexual intercourse.

Again:



Omar says:



See the difference?

Again:



Omar says:



Now this is interesting because we have gone from the fellow townspeople kicking Lot out to God ordering him to get out.

Of course Lot's wife doesn't get saved because .... well just because.

Again:



Omar says:



No real argument with this, but I wonder if the Quran makes mention of Lot heading for the hills with his two daughters, who he then has an incestuous relationship with and knocks the two of them up. Must read on.
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
----------------------------------------------
Proud woo denier
----------------------------------------------
“That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” -Christopher Hitchens-
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th January 2018, 12:59 AM   #20
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 10,227
Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)"
Yes, I remember noticing when I skimmed the Quran that it's addressed solely to men. Unless Mohammad was directing all women to be lesbians.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th January 2018, 12:56 PM   #21
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,905
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Yes, I remember noticing when I skimmed the Quran that it's addressed solely to men. Unless Mohammad was directing all women to be lesbians.
The entirety of Abrahamic religion is addressed solely to men, and if women don't like it the Koran at least instructs on the best way to beat them.
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th January 2018, 01:39 PM   #22
Thor 2
Illuminator
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
Originally Posted by baron View Post
The entirety of Abrahamic religion is addressed solely to men, and if women don't like it the Koran at least instructs on the best way to beat them.

Islam certainly seems top of the list now for religions that put women down but not in any way unusual in this obsession. I guess most of us here are familiar with the prayer: “Blessed are you Lord… for not making me a woman”

This brings to mind the confounding (to me) fact, that women seem to embrace these discriminatory man made religions, as enthusiastically as men. And now we are confronted with the evidence of gay men, wanting to stick with a religion that condemns them for being what they are.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th January 2018, 01:43 PM   #23
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Somewhere between the central U.S. and Hades
Posts: 12,159
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Islam certainly seems top of the list now for religions that put women down but not in any way unusual in this obsession. I guess most of us here are familiar with the prayer: “Blessed are you Lord… for not making me a woman”

This brings to mind the confounding (to me) fact, that women seem to embrace these discriminatory man made religions, as enthusiastically as men. And now we are confronted with the evidence of gay men, wanting to stick with a religion that condemns them for being what they are.
I dunno that I find that too odd.

Consider that Christianity has as a re-occurring theme how unworthy we are. We can only get saved by a lot of work, and even then only because God/Jesus/Spooky is merciful and takes pity on us. That we're all worthless sinners and should be grateful for the scraps we're given is the main refrain.

Now, I don't know how much that holds true for Judaism or Islam. Seems to be some element of this in Islam (but less pronounced), and I'm not familiar with the extent of the idea in Judaism.
Hellbound is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2018, 04:08 PM   #24
TubbaBlubba
Knave of the Dudes
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,502
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Thanks for that Nay_Sayer.

I Googled those verses and obtained the following:

One Omar Ibrahim made the comment in reference to the verses:



None the less he does give his interpretation and there does seem some ambiguity.

The interpretation of the verses is from SAHIH INTERNATIONAL.



Omar says:



Again:



Omar says:



Omar really fleshes this part out and reveals the level of his homophobia. From my personal experience, homophobes like to refer to sodomy as a homosexual thing. This brings to mind the words of Stephen Fry who, referring to the results of a survey, claimed that sodomy (anal sex), was more common in heterosexual than homosexual intercourse.

Again:



Omar says:



See the difference?

Again:



Omar says:



Now this is interesting because we have gone from the fellow townspeople kicking Lot out to God ordering him to get out.

Of course Lot's wife doesn't get saved because .... well just because.

Again:



Omar says:



No real argument with this, but I wonder if the Quran makes mention of Lot heading for the hills with his two daughters, who he then has an incestuous relationship with and knocks the two of them up. Must read on.
If I recall correctly, in traditional Hanafi jurisprudence, the story is understood to emphasize the evil of not following the commands of Allah, rather than any specific sin.
__________________
"The president’s voracious sexual appetite is the elephant that the president rides around on each and every day while pretending that it doesn’t exist." - Bill O'Reilly et al., Killing Kennedy
TubbaBlubba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2018, 04:04 AM   #25
SatansMaleVoiceChoir
Illuminator
 
SatansMaleVoiceChoir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: All Over You
Posts: 3,446
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
They're part of a global push for a more liberal interpretation of the Koran that acknowledges diversity and empowers mosques to welcome sexual minorities.
And there’s your problem with the majority of religions right there.

“Let’s twist the meaning of our book of made up lifestyle rules to suit our current lifestyle choices and beliefs!”
__________________
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert

Do not believe hastily. - Ovid

There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James
SatansMaleVoiceChoir is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2018, 12:43 PM   #26
Thor 2
Illuminator
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba View Post
If I recall correctly, in traditional Hanafi jurisprudence, the story is understood to emphasize the evil of not following the commands of Allah, rather than any specific sin.

While I bow to your superior insight regarding emphasis, there does seem to be a number of specific sins targeted.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2018, 12:49 PM   #27
Thor 2
Illuminator
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir View Post
And there’s your problem with the majority of religions right there.

“Let’s twist the meaning of our book of made up lifestyle rules to suit our current lifestyle choices and beliefs!”

Well spoken but herein lies the problem with Islam. As discussed in detail in another thread about it, Islam's inflexibility due to the Quran being regarded as the actual words of God, as distinct from other religious texts, makes twisting difficult.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2018, 03:09 PM   #28
SatansMaleVoiceChoir
Illuminator
 
SatansMaleVoiceChoir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: All Over You
Posts: 3,446
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Well spoken but herein lies the problem with Islam. As discussed in detail in another thread about it, Islam's inflexibility due to the Quran being regarded as the actual words of God, as distinct from other religious texts, makes twisting difficult.
I think there is still an element of interpretation regarding the Quran, which is why we have Muslim extremists slaughtering other Muslims/people who aren’t Muslims.

But again, generally speaking, if you follow the words of most holy books to the letter, you’ll probably end up on a murder or assault charge; if you twist the interpretation of most holy books to suit a radical agenda, then you’re almost certainly going to end up in trouble. If you choose to ignore the more extreme lessons in most holy books, or try and revise them to incorporate more modern lifestyle choices, then you’re effectively cherry-picking which ‘words of god’ you choose to live by, thus making a mockery of your book/religion/god.

This is why I think religion is generally ridiculous, among many, many other reasons.
__________________
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert

Do not believe hastily. - Ovid

There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James
SatansMaleVoiceChoir is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2018, 04:26 PM   #29
TubbaBlubba
Knave of the Dudes
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,502
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
While I bow to your superior insight regarding emphasis, there does seem to be a number of specific sins targeted.
Yes, but the point is taken to be that those were sins because they were forbidden by Allah, and the error was in disobeying Allah. It's actually very similar to the "old covenant" reasoning most Christians employ re: the OT.

Hanbali (Saudi Arabia) were really the only ones to treat homosexual acts as 'sexually immoral' crimes (theoretically deserving of death or exile) traditionally AFAIK. Very vocal minority.
__________________
"The president’s voracious sexual appetite is the elephant that the president rides around on each and every day while pretending that it doesn’t exist." - Bill O'Reilly et al., Killing Kennedy
TubbaBlubba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:30 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.