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Old 28th January 2022, 12:40 PM   #81
theprestige
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Agreed. Let's get back to assigning blame for this 5G antenna debacle. Are the airlines being crybabies and trying to extort a policy change by threatening to withhold service if they don't get their way?

Or is this on the cellular providers for investing in a frequency they can't use because they didn't do their due diligence about the antennas?

Or is this a screwup by the FAA and the FCC for letting things get to this state at all?
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Old 28th January 2022, 12:43 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Agreed. Let's get back to assigning blame for this 5G antenna debacle. Are the airlines being crybabies and trying to extort a policy change by threatening to withhold service if they don't get their way?

Or is this on the cellular providers for investing in a frequency they can't use because they didn't do their due diligence about the antennas?

Or is this a screwup by the FAA and the FCC for letting things get to this state at all?
Yes.
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Old 28th January 2022, 12:58 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Wrong. You cannot enforce what you cannot detect. It's a necessary prerequisite. Without detection, enforcement is impossible. This is so detached from reality that if you cannot even understand that, then there's really no point in proceeding any further.
Whatever
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Old 28th January 2022, 01:07 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by ZirconBlue View Post
Yes.
The other phrasing for this sort of response that I like is "embrace the power of 'and'".
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Old 28th January 2022, 01:12 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Are the airlines being crybabies and trying to extort a policy change by threatening to withhold service if they don't get their way?
No

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
....is this on the cellular providers for investing in a frequency they can't use because they didn't do their due diligence about the antennas?
Yes

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
...is this a screwup by the FAA and the FCC for letting things get to this state at all?
Yes


The two issues are easily fixed, but will take time.

1. Tilting the antennae of cell-towers in close proximity to airports downwards by at least 5° is simple (but time consuming). The antennas need to be switched off, remounted in the new position, and then switched on. Its just raw engineering.

2. Turning the power down on transmitters in close proximity to airports presents a more complex task. I doubt these devices have a "power control dial" that can simply be turned down. It will probably require modifications with some component changes.

I'd suggest the the easiest solution might be to modify in-stock units to a lower power setting and replace existing units at the same time that the tilt angle adjustments are being made.
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Old 28th January 2022, 02:01 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
2. Turning the power down on transmitters in close proximity to airports presents a more complex task. I doubt these devices have a "power control dial" that can simply be turned down. It will probably require modifications with some component changes.
I expect they do have a "power control dial", but coverage will be smaller at lower power. They might have to install more transmitters in other locations. Could be very expensive.
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Old 28th January 2022, 02:02 PM   #87
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There was mention of cell phones blowing up gas stations .

Myth Busters tried it.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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Old 28th January 2022, 03:07 PM   #88
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Here is a new YouTube that explains "How 5G "Almost" Shut Down Aviation in the US". And it is not what you think.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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Old 28th January 2022, 03:44 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Here is a new YouTube that explains "How 5G "Almost" Shut Down Aviation in the US". And it is not what you think.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
I can't help but think it's clickbait. Is it actually something else? Is it something you can summarize in a few simple sentences, or do I have to sit through a whole video waiting for them to get to the point?
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Old 28th January 2022, 03:58 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Here is a new YouTube that explains "How 5G "Almost" Shut Down Aviation in the US". And it is not what you think.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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Can you summarize the important point if there is one? First four minutes were nothing but a rehash of things already cover in the thread.
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Old 28th January 2022, 04:43 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Can you summarize the important point if there is one? First four minutes were nothing but a rehash of things already cover in the thread.
Summary

1. Its US bureaucracy that stuffed it up

2. Europe put in place the mitigation measures that we have discussed here, and still managed to get the 5G rollout on schedule

3. The US dot NOT put in place mitigation measures.

Pretty much what theprestige implied in the last two points in his post #81.


Its worth noting that Canada began implementing mitigation measures in November last year

https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/ref...asa-no-2021-08
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Old 28th January 2022, 05:24 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Summary

1. Its US bureaucracy that stuffed it up

2. Europe put in place the mitigation measures that we have discussed here, and still managed to get the 5G rollout on schedule

3. The US dot NOT put in place mitigation measures.

Pretty much what theprestige implied in the last two points in his post #81.


Its worth noting that Canada began implementing mitigation measures in November last year

https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/ref...asa-no-2021-08
Thanks for that. I am glad it is a US problem only and not a worldwide issue.
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Old 28th January 2022, 05:28 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Summary
Thanks, but you really should have made rjh01 do that.
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Old 28th January 2022, 05:44 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Thanks, but you really should have made rjh01 do that.

Well, I wanted to watch the video anyway.
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Old 28th January 2022, 06:13 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Thanks for that. I am glad it is a US problem only and not a worldwide issue.
Seems like it's a Canada problem too.

It also doesn't really seem like much of a problem. 5G rollout gets delayed a bit. So what?
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Old 28th January 2022, 11:17 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Thanks, but you really should have made rjh01 do that.
It is not up to me to educate you. This video has a bit more credibility than other people's uninformed opinions on this site. This post says more about you than anything else.
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Old 28th January 2022, 11:20 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
It is not up to me to educate you. This video has a bit more credibility than other people's uninformed opinions on this site. This post says more about you than anything else.
It's up to you not to waste people's time. The post didn't have any new information nor any surprises. It's rude to ask people to listen to a 16 minute video for no good reason.
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Old 28th January 2022, 11:26 PM   #98
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I have to say that this forum is the only one I have encountered where there is such a widespread "anti-video" attitude.

I don't get it.
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Old 28th January 2022, 11:38 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It also doesn't really seem like much of a problem. 5G rollout gets delayed a bit. So what?
5G providers seem to think it's a big problem, and for them it may be. Lots of potential income down the drain, penalty clauses being triggered, that sort of thing. I wouldn't be surprised if some bankruptcies are on the way.

But all that pales in comparison to what would happen if 5G was the suspected cause of a crash, especially if a few hundred passengers lost their lives. That's why we need agencies like the FAA who aren't in the pockets of big business - to protect them (and us) from themselves.
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Old 28th January 2022, 11:52 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I have to say that this forum is the only one I have encountered where there is such a widespread "anti-video" attitude.

I don't get it.
I suppose you don't mind bare links and stuff behind paywalls too, right?

Some of us don't have the latest hardware or high speed internet connections either. Then there's the tedious adverts for stuff we aren't at all interested in that are sprinkled throughout longer videos. Finally videos are very hard to quote from accurately, which makes discussing them difficult.

Unless the message is visual, the video is just a distraction (even more so when you click the next 'interesting' one, and the next, and the next...)
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Old 29th January 2022, 12:12 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
I suppose you don't mind bare links and stuff behind paywalls too, right?
Nope.... and getting around paywalls is easy.

I'll put the rest in a spoiler so the anti-video crowd aren't forced to read it.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Some of us don't have the latest hardware or high speed internet connections either.
Then don't click on it, but don't bitch about it either

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Then there's the tedious adverts for stuff we aren't at all interested in that are sprinkled throughout longer videos.
AdBlockers are free.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Finally videos are very hard to quote from accurately, which makes discussing them difficult.
So you think people are incapable listening to the audio and typing what they hear... but you expect the poster of the video to do exactly that?

(Note: for YouTube videos, I just download the subtitles)

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Unless the message is visual, the video is just a distraction
I find reading dry text keeps me at the computer screen. A video with a good commentary (or a podcast) allows me the freedom do do other things while I listen

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Even more so when you click the next 'interesting' one, and the next, and the next...)
Then don't!
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Old 3rd September 2022, 06:39 AM   #102
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So did this ever get sorted out?

I came across a recent video about 5g, but the problem with airplanes wasn't on the radar.


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Old 3rd September 2022, 04:25 PM   #103
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FAA Statements on 5G as of June 17

A long read, but:

Quote:
“We believe we have identified a path that will continue to enable aviation and 5G C-band wireless to safely co-exist,” said Acting FAA Administrator Billy Nolen. “We appreciate the willingness of Verizon and AT&T to continue this important and productive collaboration with the aviation industry.”
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