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Old 19th February 2021, 01:15 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
We're going to do it just to prove that we can. Humans are like that.
Probably.

There's no practical reason to climb Mt. Everest either, but people do it for the same reason.

I just hope that anyone who tries to go to Mars fully appreciates what they are in for. I don't imagine it will be very fun. Many people have died on Everest too.
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Old 19th February 2021, 01:31 AM   #42
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Did anyone here get a boarding pass to have their name on the rover?
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Old 19th February 2021, 06:42 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
And I don't care if no human ever tries to reach another celestial body. 'Taint't worth it.

Not with the increasingly neato robots we can send.
We have a wanderlust. We will go because we need to go.

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Old 19th February 2021, 08:13 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
Did anyone here get a boarding pass to have their name on the rover?
My son did, or something similar.

A year or two ago there was a thing at school where the kids could sign a big sheet of paper. The teachers said that the signatures would be put on the rover. Not quite sure how that was done (I mean, obviously it doesn't have a big folded up sheet of paper with my son's name on it), but such little things are common with spacecraft.

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Old 19th February 2021, 08:17 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids, in fact it's cold as hell....
It's ok. He has his mittens on.
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Old 19th February 2021, 08:18 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Hope they’ve improved the CGI since that fake moon landing malarkey.

Seriously looking forward to watching this.
Just look for stars in the sky.
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Old 19th February 2021, 01:18 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
We're going to do it just to prove that we can. Humans are like that.
When we're at our best, we hunger and thirst for knowledge, and knowledge is the only lasting result of our achievements. If we can learn more about the solar system by remote means that risk no lives, that's proof enough of what we can do.
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Old 19th February 2021, 02:44 PM   #48
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Old 19th February 2021, 03:34 PM   #49
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I must admit that, as excited as I am by the rover's mission, I do get a little bored with the names that NASA give these machines; Spirit, Opportunity, Curiosity, Perseverance. Translate that into Latin and it could be the motto of an English public school.
I yearn for a rover called Bob. Or Gladys. Or maybe a Bradbury, or a Clarke, or a Wells.
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Old 19th February 2021, 04:59 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
I must admit that, as excited as I am by the rover's mission, I do get a little bored with the names that NASA give these machines; Spirit, Opportunity, Curiosity, Perseverance. Translate that into Latin and it could be the motto of an English public school.
I yearn for a rover called Bob. Or Gladys. Or maybe a Bradbury, or a Clarke, or a Wells.
I agree. They are a bit bland.
Perseverance was the result of a naming competition they had, and was submitted by a schoolboy.

Quote:
Perseverance is the latest in a long line of Red Planet rovers to be named by school-age children, from Sojourner in 1997 to the Spirit and Opportunity rovers, which landed on Mars in 2004, to Curiosity, which has been exploring Mars since 2012. In each case, the name was selected following a nationwide contest.

The contest that resulted in Alex's winning entry of Perseverance began Aug. 28, 2019. Nearly 4,700 volunteer judges – educators, professionals and space enthusiasts from around the country – reviewed submissions to help narrow the pool down to 155 semifinalists. Once that group was whittled down to nine finalists, the public had five days to weigh in on their favorites, logging more than 770,000 votes online, with the results submitted to NASA for consideration. The nine finalists also talked with a panel of experts, including Lori Glaze, director of NASA's Planetary Science Division; NASA astronaut Jessica Watkins; rover driver Nick Wiltsie at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, California; and Clara Ma, who, as a sixth grade student in 2009, named Curiosity.
The nine finalists were all rather similar. I think ultimately NASA bureaucrats choose the names that they consider acceptable, and anything humorous or quirky is not going to make it to the final shortlist. The whole "naming contest" farce is just to drum up interest among schoolchildren.

ETA: actually, I just remembered that a lot of people are calling the rover "Percy" now, as a nickname.
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Old 19th February 2021, 09:48 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
I must admit that, as excited as I am by the rover's mission, I do get a little bored with the names that NASA give these machines; Spirit, Opportunity, Curiosity, Perseverance. Translate that into Latin and it could be the motto of an English public school.
I yearn for a rover called Bob. Or Gladys. Or maybe a Bradbury, or a Clarke, or a Wells.
Should have been "Spacy McSpaceface."
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Old 19th February 2021, 10:14 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
The nine finalists were all rather similar. I think ultimately NASA bureaucrats choose the names that they consider acceptable, and anything humorous or quirky is not going to make it to the final shortlist. The whole "naming contest" farce is just to drum up interest among schoolchildren.
It isn't a farce. It is a naming competition. Of course they are going to choose a winner that matches their usual types of names. My guess is that Star Trek and the Starship Enterprise had a major influence on NASA naming choices for spacecraft.

The competition allows school kids to learn about the mission and be creative and write an essay and participate in some way. Plus, the winner gets to go to Cape Canaveral for the landing. And the top winning essays are etched on microchips on the rover along with the boarding pass names. I think that is pretty cool.

I liked the suggestion of "Little Tinker" after Betty Skelton's dog.

If I were a school kid submitting a suggestion, I would go with something more unexpected like "Inquisition".
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Old 19th February 2021, 10:19 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Should have been "Spacy McSpaceface."
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Old 19th February 2021, 10:23 PM   #54
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Here's my question: If they fail to find stromatolites or some other definitive evidence of life past or present on Mars, will they give up and start seriously looking elsewhere?

I'm wondering when an absence of evidence in this case is going to be meaningful.
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Old 19th February 2021, 10:37 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Here's my question: If they fail to find stromatolites or some other definitive evidence of life past or present on Mars, will they give up and start seriously looking elsewhere?

I'm wondering when an absence of evidence in this case is going to be meaningful.
Even if they do something, that's like 5 rovers for Mars.

We want to see Venus now, eh!
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Old 19th February 2021, 11:09 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Mike Helland View Post
Even if they do something, that's like 5 rovers for Mars.

We want to see Venus now, eh!
Venus is fascinating. But we have some incredible pics already and evidence that the whole surface turned over (as in was molten all at once) a few million years ago. What else is there to discover (at the moment)? That business about possible signs of life in the clouds hasn't panned out.

Drill down into Europa! That's where the frickin* money ball is.


*Not an attempt to defeat the auto-censors.
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Old 19th February 2021, 11:24 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
My guess is that Star Trek and the Starship Enterprise had a major influence on NASA naming choices for spacecraft.
The first space shuttle was named Enterprise, it was the prototype which never actually got into space. The cast of Star Trek attended its launch. Subsequent naming stuck to the convention that established.

In the first Star Trek film the alien is being shown around the Enterprise and sees a series of photographs, from sailing ships through to space ships, with the first shuttle in the middle of the sequence. "All of these ships were called Enterprise", explains her guide, thus neatly tying the naming into a bow.
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Old 20th February 2021, 04:45 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
I must admit that, as excited as I am by the rover's mission, I do get a little bored with the names that NASA give these machines; Spirit, Opportunity, Curiosity, Perseverance. Translate that into Latin and it could be the motto of an English public school.
I yearn for a rover called Bob. Or Gladys. Or maybe a Bradbury, or a Clarke, or a Wells.
Actually, I like names like that, Viking, Mariner, Pathfinder, Sojourner, Spirit, Opportunity, Curiosity, Perseverance, Ingenuity...

"Curiosity" and "Perseverance" are a lot better names that their boring actual ones... Mars Science Laboratory 1 and Mars 2020 Rover
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Old 20th February 2021, 04:53 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Venus is fascinating. But we have some incredible pics already and evidence that the whole surface turned over (as in was molten all at once) a few million years ago. What else is there to discover (at the moment)? That business about possible signs of life in the clouds hasn't panned out.

Drill down into Europa! That's where the frickin* money ball is.


*Not an attempt to defeat the auto-censors.
Yup... If I were a betting man, I would wager

1. Life will not be found on Mars, but evidence of past life will be found, because Mars at one time had all the conditions for life to start that the Earth had.

2. If life is found anywhere in the Solar system it will be in the deep oceans of Europa or Enceladus (or both)
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Old 20th February 2021, 04:57 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yup... If I were a betting man, I would wager

1. Life will not be found on Mars, but evidence of past life will be found, because Mars at one time had all the conditions abiogenesis the Earth had.

2. If life is found anywhere in the Solar system it will be in the deep oceans of Europa or Enceladus (or both)
I'm not sure if it's not too early to totally discount Mars' potential Deep Biosphere. Conditions there, especially near volcanoes are barely affected by things like an atmosphere and it looks like life settled there on Earth quite well.

Of course, getting to that will require things more substantial than these probes.
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Old 20th February 2021, 08:18 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
2. If life is found anywhere in the Solar system it will be in the deep oceans of Europa or Enceladus (or both)

I'm pretty sure life can be found on earth, which is in the solar system.

Or were you talking about intelligent life?
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Old 20th February 2021, 10:59 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
I'm pretty sure life can be found on earth, which is in the solar system.

Or were you talking about intelligent life?
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Old 20th February 2021, 11:15 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Here's my question: If they fail to find stromatolites or some other definitive evidence of life past or present on Mars, will they give up and start seriously looking elsewhere?

I'm wondering when an absence of evidence in this case is going to be meaningful.
Difficult as it is, Mars is easier to get to than anywhere else in the solar system, barring the Moon. And the science is interesting and useful regardless of life.

Oh, and the Ingenuity helicopter has deployed and phoned home!
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Old 20th February 2021, 12:27 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
I must admit that, as excited as I am by the rover's mission, I do get a little bored with the names that NASA give these machines; Spirit, Opportunity, Curiosity, Perseverance. Translate that into Latin and it could be the motto of an English public school.
I yearn for a rover called Bob. Or Gladys. Or maybe a Bradbury, or a Clarke, or a Wells.
I'd be happy if they called them "One, Two, Three..."
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Old 20th February 2021, 02:41 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Difficult as it is, Mars is easier to get to than anywhere else in the solar system, barring the Moon. And the science is interesting and useful regardless of life.

Oh, and the Ingenuity helicopter has deployed and phoned home!
Checked in but won't launch for a month or more. Super cool though.
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Old 20th February 2021, 03:05 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Here's my question: If they fail to find stromatolites or some other definitive evidence of life past or present on Mars, will they give up and start seriously looking elsewhere?

I'm wondering when an absence of evidence in this case is going to be meaningful.
Good question.
There were functionally infinite locales for life to begin on earth, and it seems to have sprung up in one place only. For example at antipodean points it might have begun, then met in the middle. This would mean two or many common ancestors for various life forms, but there is only one. My bet is life is unique in the solar system here, and that may as well be the universe.
Therefore no life on Mars.
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Old 20th February 2021, 03:25 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yup... If I were a betting man, I would wager

1. Life will not be found on Mars, but evidence of past life will be found, because Mars at one time had all the conditions for life to start that the Earth had.
It might be. Microbes may yet be found in the subsoil or whatever. But I would not place a bet on it. More likely there will be evidence of past life millions of years ago. I could be surprised, but I doubt it. Sure, I would immediately interested if such a thing were discovered, I simply do not think that is remotely likely.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
2. If life is found anywhere in the Solar system it will be in the deep oceans of Europa or Enceladus (or both)
That is a problem. A Europa mission would require drilling. We have no way of doing that.

Encaladus is a step further.

I have no issue with speculation as to how we could do such things, but we do not have that ability as yet.
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Old 20th February 2021, 03:47 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
It might be. Microbes may yet be found in the subsoil or whatever. But I would not place a bet on it. More likely there will be evidence of past life millions of years ago. I could be surprised, but I doubt it. Sure, I would immediately interested if such a thing were discovered, I simply do not think that is remotely likely.



That is a problem. A Europa mission would require drilling. We have no way of doing that.

Encaladus is a step further.

I have no issue with speculation as to how we could do such things, but we do not have that ability as yet.
Enceladus constantly spews water out into space from south polar geysers. If there is life in the deep oceans of that moon, there could be life clues in that water.

As for the drilling, well, they're working on that ...

https://www.space.com/35136-jupiter-...unt-drill.html

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/feb-...hell-1.5470495
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Old 20th February 2021, 04:11 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Enceladus constantly spews water out into space from south polar geysers. If there is life in the deep oceans of that moon, there could be life clues in that water.

As for the drilling, well, they're working on that ...

https://www.space.com/35136-jupiter-...unt-drill.html

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/feb-...hell-1.5470495
ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS—EXCEPT EUROPA. ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE. - Arthur C Clarke, 2061 - Odyssey 3.
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Old 20th February 2021, 05:02 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Here's my question: If they fail to find stromatolites or some other definitive evidence of life past or present on Mars, will they give up and start seriously looking elsewhere?

I'm wondering when an absence of evidence in this case is going to be meaningful.
Makes sense. Mars is a pretty small place. The last couple of rovers covered the whole thing. This one is just redundant at this point. Plus Venus is easier anyway.
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Old 20th February 2021, 05:09 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Makes sense. Mars is a pretty small place. The last couple of rovers covered the whole thing. This one is just redundant at this point. Plus Venus is easier anyway.
Also, one place on Mars is pretty much the same as any other. If you don't find something in the first place you look it likely does not exist there at all.
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Old 20th February 2021, 05:21 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS—EXCEPT EUROPA. ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE. - Arthur C Clarke, 2061 - Odyssey 3.
Before that...

Arthur C Clarke, 2010 - Odyssey 2
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Old 20th February 2021, 05:23 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Good question.
There were functionally infinite locales for life to begin on earth, and it seems to have sprung up in one place only. For example at antipodean points it might have begun, then met in the middle. This would mean two or many common ancestors for various life forms, but there is only one.
There's only one left. That doesn't mean that there was ever only one. It's entirely possible there was more than one, but the others went extinct early on from competition, which is especially likely if they got a later start.
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Old 20th February 2021, 05:27 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Before that...

Arthur C Clarke, 2010 - Odyssey 2
Oops, thanks for the correction.
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Old 20th February 2021, 05:33 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Makes sense. Mars is a pretty small place. The last couple of rovers covered the whole thing. This one is just redundant at this point. Plus Venus is easier anyway.
Err, no. Not even close, not even a minscule amount

The surface area of Mars is 145 million sq km... about the same as the land area of Earth (148 million sq km)

The Mars overs together have covered....

Spirit ...............8km
Opportunity......45km
Curiosity...........24km
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Old 20th February 2021, 05:35 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Err, no. Not even close, not even a minscule amount

The surface area of Mars is 145 million sq km... about the same as the land area of Earth (148 million sq km)

The Mars overs together have covered....

Spirit ...............8km
Opportunity......45km
Curiosity...........24km
I think there may have been a touch of sarcasm in theprestige's post.
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Old 20th February 2021, 05:38 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Oops, thanks for the correction.
Actually, it wasn't a correction, it was an addition.. I should have said "And" before that....

The quote in question is in both books, and the 1984 movie based on the Odyssey 2, starring Keir Dullea, Helen Mirren and the late Roy Scheider
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Old 20th February 2021, 05:42 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
I was looking at the picture of the rover landing spot and thinking how much I would like to walk there. There would be a few who would trade a decade or two of life if that’s what it took, or even the risk of not making it.
Years of your life are not the currency, though. The billions of dollars it would take to put your life in play are the currency.

Too, this planet offers several lifetimes of exciting new places to walk. If walking in exciting new places is your jam, sitting at home pining for Mars is counter productive.
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Old 20th February 2021, 06:36 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
There's only one left. That doesn't mean that there was ever only one. It's entirely possible there was more than one, but the others went extinct early on from competition, which is especially likely if they got a later start.
However if there was not more than one it remains vanishingly unlikely there was life on Mars.
Extinction with no biological trace is unfortunate, and an assumption necessary for life elsewhere in the universe.
The zero case
The one case
Or the many case.
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Old 20th February 2021, 08:05 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Makes sense. Mars is a pretty small place. The last couple of rovers covered the whole thing. This one is just redundant at this point. Plus Venus is easier anyway.
How do you figure Venus is easy? Past probes burn up after an hour or so on the surface.

List of Missions to Venus
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