[Continuation] The One Covid-19 Science and Medicine Thread Part 4 - Page 73

zooterkin · 20th March 2023, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Planigale

Anyone admitted to hospital with flu meets criteria for anti-virals. For Covid-19 you would in general have to be symptomatic and 'vulnerable'.

Yes, I maybe wasn't clear, but was talking about Covid specifically.

marting · 21st March 2023, 02:15 PM

The Cleveland Clinic study (12/22) that reviewed initial bi-valent vaccine efficacy over a 90 day period has been updated several times and now has 180 days of data. The new data includes periods where multiple variants went through providing additional effectiveness data. The main result is that the bi-valent vaccine is close to useless against XBB*.

Effectiveness of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Bivalent Vaccine
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....17.22283625v4

Quote:

Estimated vaccine effectiveness (VE) was 29% (95% C.I., 21%-37%), 20% (95% C.I., 6%-31%), and 4% (95% C.I., -12%-18%), during the BA.4/5, BQ, and XBB dominant phases, respectively.

This decrease is consistent with antibody studies that show even lower neutralization for the latter variants. There may also be some impact from vaccine waning since 80% of the vaccinations were delivered in the initial 90 days of the study.

The rather odd correlation between number of previous vaccine doses and increased probability of infection remains. However, the study's subjects were relatively young and there were few seriously ill among them so, even if accurate, the study says nothing about illness severity and there are numerous studies that show vaccinations continue to provide significant protection against hospitalization/death.

The Atheist · 21st March 2023, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by marting

The Cleveland Clinic study (12/22) that reviewed initial bi-valent vaccine efficacy over a 90 day period has been updated several times and now has 180 days of data. The new data includes periods where multiple variants went through providing additional effectiveness data. The main result is that the bi-valent vaccine is close to useless against XBB*.

Given that being the dominant strain right now, it's not great news.

The good news is the continuing level of protection, which I'm guessing is part vaccine and part infection-gained antibodies.

It's almost reached the point where continual exposure will lead to less harm in the long term.

marting · 21st March 2023, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Given that being the dominant strain right now, it's not great news.

The good news is the continuing level of protection, which I'm guessing is part vaccine and part infection-gained antibodies.

Yeah. Even though the vaccine appears to do squat in terms of stopping infection, it's effective at reducing hospitalization/death.

The only variant that might have a chance at this point is one showing up in India. But it's prevalence is still low so it may be founder's effect. A lot of variants popped up but quickly faded.

XBB, as immune escape as it is against vaccines, is less so against prior infection of Omicron variants. And while it's dominant, it is decreasing in prevalence almost everywhere with nothing else clearly in sight. So we are in for at least several good months. This might be the evolutionary endemic end.

The Atheist · 21st March 2023, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by marting

Yeah. Even though the vaccine appears to do squat in terms of stopping infection, it's effective at reducing hospitalization/death.

That's really the only thing that matters - we can't put the genie back in the bottle and it's going to be with us forever, along with the other coronaviruses we're susceptible to.

As long as it circulates and isn't killing many, I think we're as good as it gets.

20th March 2023, 02:44 PM	#2881
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 55,193	Originally Posted by Planigale Anyone admitted to hospital with flu meets criteria for anti-virals. For Covid-19 you would in general have to be symptomatic and 'vulnerable'. Yes, I maybe wasn't clear, but was talking about Covid specifically.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

21st March 2023, 02:15 PM	#2882
marting Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,698	The Cleveland Clinic study (12/22) that reviewed initial bi-valent vaccine efficacy over a 90 day period has been updated several times and now has 180 days of data. The new data includes periods where multiple variants went through providing additional effectiveness data. The main result is that the bi-valent vaccine is close to useless against XBB. Effectiveness of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Bivalent Vaccine* https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....17.22283625v4 Quote: Estimated vaccine effectiveness (VE) was 29% (95% C.I., 21%-37%), 20% (95% C.I., 6%-31%), and 4% (95% C.I., -12%-18%), during the BA.4/5, BQ, and XBB dominant phases, respectively. This decrease is consistent with antibody studies that show even lower neutralization for the latter variants. There may also be some impact from vaccine waning since 80% of the vaccinations were delivered in the initial 90 days of the study. The rather odd correlation between number of previous vaccine doses and increased probability of infection remains. However, the study's subjects were relatively young and there were few seriously ill among them so, even if accurate, the study says nothing about illness severity and there are numerous studies that show vaccinations continue to provide significant protection against hospitalization/death.
marting Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,698	__________________ Flying's easy. Walking on water, now that's cool.

21st March 2023, 02:59 PM	#2883
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 33,265	Originally Posted by marting The Cleveland Clinic study (12/22) that reviewed initial bi-valent vaccine efficacy over a 90 day period has been updated several times and now has 180 days of data. The new data includes periods where multiple variants went through providing additional effectiveness data. The main result is that the bi-valent vaccine is close to useless against XBB*. Given that being the dominant strain right now, it's not great news. The good news is the continuing level of protection, which I'm guessing is part vaccine and part infection-gained antibodies. It's almost reached the point where continual exposure will lead to less harm in the long term.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

21st March 2023, 03:47 PM	#2884
marting Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,698	Originally Posted by The Atheist Given that being the dominant strain right now, it's not great news. The good news is the continuing level of protection, which I'm guessing is part vaccine and part infection-gained antibodies. Yeah. Even though the vaccine appears to do squat in terms of stopping infection, it's effective at reducing hospitalization/death. The only variant that might have a chance at this point is one showing up in India. But it's prevalence is still low so it may be founder's effect. A lot of variants popped up but quickly faded. XBB, as immune escape as it is against vaccines, is less so against prior infection of Omicron variants. And while it's dominant, it is decreasing in prevalence almost everywhere with nothing else clearly in sight. So we are in for at least several good months. This might be the evolutionary endemic end.
marting Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,698	__________________ Flying's easy. Walking on water, now that's cool.

21st March 2023, 05:17 PM	#2885
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 33,265	Originally Posted by marting Yeah. Even though the vaccine appears to do squat in terms of stopping infection, it's effective at reducing hospitalization/death. That's really the only thing that matters - we can't put the genie back in the bottle and it's going to be with us forever, along with the other coronaviruses we're susceptible to. As long as it circulates and isn't killing many, I think we're as good as it gets.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.