Criminal Charges Against Trump - Page 63

Skeptic Ginger · Today, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

....Why am I saying all this? I want to prevent a Civil War. ...

Pretty sure you are overestimating the size of the Trump cult, especially the subset that would actually attack something like the Capitol.

Maybe some terrorism like McVeigh and his fertilizer bomb, but a civil war? No.

quadraginta · Today, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

If Trump is charged over the Stormy Daniels affair there will obviously be lots of polls regarding what people think about the charges.

We will see what our society says, and whether or not I am right. If I am wrong, great!

Polls, for whatever they are worth, would be as divided as the American public is, so those wouldn't establish much.

And it is not clear to me how polls would even be relevant. We have laws which proscribe proper behavior. (At least we did.

) The only poll which matters is the polling of a jury, and even that has its flaws, as a multitude of unpunished race crimes has shown.

quadraginta · Today, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Falsified business records is not the same as perjury. They weren't submitted under oath.

Tax records are. And there are others, I'm sure.

quadraginta · Today, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

No, what I am saying is that we should be delicate before charging a former President with a crime, especially following such a crazy election and with many insane extremists thinking the former POTUS is still POTUS and is being persecuted.

In normal times, I think ex-Presidents are deserving of a little leeway with regards to prosecutions.

Why?

Quote:

Why am I saying all this? I want to prevent a Civil War.

Are you suggesting that we should allow ourselves to be cowed by thugs and hooligans and ignore criminal behavior?

Quote:

But like I said, I have nothing against charging Trump with major crimes, if the evidence is there.

Again, what is the threshold for a "major" crime? In this instance there does not seem to be a lack of evidence.

Is is paying bribe money with the express intent of influencing a national election not "major"?

Congress apparently thought so. I doubt they passed the laws they did because it was a slow day at the Capitol Building and they just needed something to do.

Not least because such laws are among the exceeding rare ones which impact them specifically as well as their backers.

The same holds true for state governments, who seem largely in agreement with Federal laws on this subject.

Segnosaur · Today, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Falsified business records is not the same as perjury. They weren't submitted under oath.

First of all, I never claimed falsified records were "the same" as perjury. I said it was related to perjury. There is still a requirement for the information to be accurate, and if its used in filing taxes, you usually have to sign something that says "this is accurate".

In other words its not like you're telling some little white lie to someone who probably doesn't care and has no legal remedy to you lying to them.

Secondly, of ALL the things I debunked in your post (your "there are violent crimes" MAGAchud talking point, the "prosecutorial discression" argument, etc.) that was the ONLY think you could talk about?

Today, 03:33 PM	#2482
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,674	Originally Posted by Hercules56 If Trump is charged over the Stormy Daniels affair there will obviously be lots of polls regarding what people think about the charges. We will see what our society says, and whether or not I am right. If I am wrong, great! Polls, for whatever they are worth, would be as divided as the American public is, so those wouldn't establish much. And it is not clear to me how polls would even be relevant. We have laws which proscribe proper behavior. (At least we did. ) The only poll which matters is the polling of a jury, and even that has its flaws, as a multitude of unpunished race crimes has shown.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

Today, 03:36 PM	#2483
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,674	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Falsified business records is not the same as perjury. They weren't submitted under oath. Tax records are. And there are others, I'm sure.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

Today, 03:47 PM	#2484
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,674	Originally Posted by Hercules56 No, what I am saying is that we should be delicate before charging a former President with a crime, especially following such a crazy election and with many insane extremists thinking the former POTUS is still POTUS and is being persecuted. In normal times, I think ex-Presidents are deserving of a little leeway with regards to prosecutions. Why? Quote: Why am I saying all this? I want to prevent a Civil War. Are you suggesting that we should allow ourselves to be cowed by thugs and hooligans and ignore criminal behavior? Quote: But like I said, I have nothing against charging Trump with major crimes, if the evidence is there. Again, what is the threshold for a "major" crime? In this instance there does not seem to be a lack of evidence. Is is paying bribe money with the express intent of influencing a national election not "major"? Congress apparently thought so. I doubt they passed the laws they did because it was a slow day at the Capitol Building and they just needed something to do. Not least because such laws are among the exceeding rare ones which impact them specifically as well as their backers. The same holds true for state governments, who seem largely in agreement with Federal laws on this subject.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." Last edited by quadraginta; Today at 03:49 PM.

Today, 03:53 PM	#2485
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 19,682	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Falsified business records is not the same as perjury. They weren't submitted under oath. First of all, I never claimed falsified records were "the same" as perjury. I said it was related to perjury. There is still a requirement for the information to be accurate, and if its used in filing taxes, you usually have to sign something that says "this is accurate". In other words its not like you're telling some little white lie to someone who probably doesn't care and has no legal remedy to you lying to them. Secondly, of ALL the things I debunked in your post (your "there are violent crimes" MAGAchud talking point, the "prosecutorial discression" argument, etc.) that was the ONLY think you could talk about?
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

Today, 03:32 PM	#2481
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 93,401	Originally Posted by Hercules56 ....Why am I saying all this? I want to prevent a Civil War. ... Pretty sure you are overestimating the size of the Trump cult, especially the subset that would actually attack something like the Capitol. Maybe some terrorism like McVeigh and his fertilizer bomb, but a civil war? No.