Merged: Criminal Charges Against Trump/Trump indicted

[MinnesotaBrant]

on my game there are a bunch of pro trump people that are so vocal that I thought they might be russian trolls. For the past few months there have been crickets. What is going on with trump support?

[Orphia Nay]

Originally Posted by MinnesotaBrant

on my game there are a bunch of pro trump people that are so vocal that I thought they might be russian trolls. For the past few months there have been crickets. What is going on with trump support?

Cognitive dissonance. They're dumbfounded by the split in the Republican Party, and their brains hurt.

[newyorkguy]

Joseph McBride is a right wing lawyer from --it pains me to admit -- New York City. He has been defending some of the Jan6 crew. McBride gained some notoriety last month when he compared the plight of some of those arrested and jailed as a result of the January 6th insurrection with what Jesus suffered at the hands of the Romans.

Today? He's been 'tweeting' about trump.



Man that's some gooood Kool-Aid!

[Aridas]

To poke at another perspective from a doubter -

Quote:

With full knowledge of the two monumentally important criminal investigations bearing down on our treasonous ex-President and likely to result in serious charges — the Fani Willis investigation in Georgia into his illegal efforts to tamper with and overturn the election, and special prosecutor Jack Smith’s federal investigation of Trump for inciting the January 6 insurrection — Bragg has chosen this moment to come at him with….I’m sorry, what? Paying off a porn star with some hush money? Which...isn’t even necessarily a felony, unless it’s….some kind of illegal political contribution because his Presidential campaign was….something something something whatever.

I’m not saying what Trump did was not a crime. But the idea that — after rejecting a pretty strong fraud case that several of his top advisors felt should have been bought but was instead abandoned as maybe not quite the slam dunk he was looking for — that now this little pea shooter of a case is what he’s chosen to come at the charging elephant in the room with?

And bear in mind that Trump has been carefully — well, not carefully but consistently and manically — weaving and elaborating his grievance campaign among his passionate and credulous followers — the campaign that explicitly states that powerful government officials are conspiring against him, teaming up and manipulating the law to get him so that he can’t regain the Presidency and destroy their elitist deep state cabal. Well, if Trump had planted a mole in America’s prosecutorial pool to bring a case custom-crafted to propagate this exact narrative, it couldn’t have been more effective than this flabby, penny-ante indictment Bragg seems to have brewing.

Take it with a grain of salt, of course, but the reminder about Bragg and his previous actions with regards to Trump is probably worthy of real note.

[Gulliver Foyle]

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

I share your disdain for RT, but even a broken clock is right on occasion.

As far as I can see, the legal questions here aren't much different than they were with John Edwards when he was accused of using campaign cash to pay off a mistress. He was charged, but charges were ultimately dismissed. Not because he didn't pay her off (he did), but because paying hush money isn't illegal, and since the money didn't come from campaign cash, it wasn't a campaign finance violation.

One of the key legal points here is that it doesn't suffice for an expenditure to be useful for a campaign. In order to count as campaign spending, it has to be spending that you would not have spent but for the campaign. This also means that you can't charge the campaign for expenses that have other purposes even if they're useful to the campaign. So when you're out travelling you can charge meals to a campaign but you can't charge meals at home, because you would have to eat even if you weren't running.

In Edward's case, he successfully argued that there were reasons other than the campaign to want to keep the affair secret, so even though doing so benefited the campaign, it could not count as campaign spending (and thus didn't need to be declared) because it failed the "but for" test. I expect Trump will argue the same.

That argument is useless as it has been established by the courts that these payments constituted a crime. Now all prosecutors have to do is successfully show that Trump knew about the payments and directed that they be made.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

Joseph McBride is a right wing lawyer from --it pains me to admit -- New York City. He has been defending some of the Jan6 crew. McBride gained some notoriety last month when he compared the plight of some of those arrested and jailed as a result of the January 6th insurrection with what Jesus suffered at the hands of the Romans.

Today? He's been 'tweeting' about trump.



Man that's some gooood Kool-Aid!

I just wish people would leave their religious musings behind their private doors where it belongs. "Jesus" and "God" have **** all to do with any of this.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Mike!

I can't read that name any other way than, "Joe Tapioca". It's just impossible, and that's pudding it mildly.

Stephanie Miller pronounces it Tacopenis.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Wait, what? He referred to himself as the FORMER president? Trump never wrote that!

He got the hint that if he keeps calling himself still the POTUS that is 2 terms and he can't run for a 3rd term in 2024.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I would rather Trump be convicted of inciting the J6 insurrection and obstruction of justice in the documents case than the Daniels case. But a trifecta would be a dream come true.

It is an enduring mystery to me how Trump was not jailed immediately after "J6".

[Doubt]

The best reason to doubt Trump getting arrested on Tuesday is that Trump is the source of that information. Although I hope he is not lying this time.

I would like to see them arrest him on Monday because he cannot be trusted to turn himself in on Tuesday. Probably won't happen that way.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Samson

It is an enduring mystery to me how Trump was not jailed immediately after "J6".

I think there were several issues at play...

- Trump was still president at the time (and would be until the inauguration), and the DoJ had their policy of not indicting a sitting president (a DoJ that was headed by a republican boot-licker I might add)

- the concept of "free speech" (especially political speech) is very broad, and some people might have thought even politically charged words like "fight" would be protected (as long as they did not direct specific illegal actions)

- at the time people did not know what was going on behind the scenes. It has taken the Jan6 committee and the DoJ (as well as various news organizations) months to find out what Trump was up to

Sent from my moto e using Tapatalk

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Originally Posted by Samson

It is an enduring mystery to me how Trump was not jailed immediately after "J6".

Republicans were involved I his attempt to Obstruct Justice on January 6th 2021, and they protected him, because the party is nothing but a courpt Criminal enterprise now! Fox Fraud News is also Guilty of Obstruction of Justice in spreading the big Lie!
Trump got away with Obstruction of Justice in the Mueller Probe and that emboldened Trump, and Republicans to try and Steal an election in an attempt to Obstruct Justice again on January 6th 2021!
Of course I knew all this for a long Time tried too tell everyone, but no one listened! Trump is a too bit mofia clown that uses fixers and idiots to do his dirty work for him and then Throws them under the Bus.
The problem is that after enough People get thrown under the Bus you Run out of fixers, and Lackeys.
Well don't take my word for it, I am just a Crazy Conspiracy theorists here now too most here! Wait for the Trial and Other investigations especially in the Senate where both Mitch McConnell and Shummer want to be rid of the crazy MAGA Permanently.
My hope is Trump wins the znomination then is convicted leaving the Republicans with no candidate on the Ballot in 2024.
That would Permanently split the party with many Voting Libertarian.

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by Doubt

The best reason to doubt Trump getting arrested on Tuesday is that Trump is the source of that information. Although I hope he is not lying this time.

I would like to see them arrest him on Monday because he cannot be trusted to turn himself in on Tuesday. Probably won't happen that way.

Tuesday, 1 a.m. In the dead of night with no MAGA watching. Trump is fond of the Nazi symbolism and policy. So I'm sure he would appreciate being made the subject of some "Nacht Und Nebel".

[Fast Eddie B]

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

That argument is useless as it has been established by the courts that these payments constituted a crime. Now all prosecutors have to do is successfully show that Trump knew about the payments and directed that they be made.

The latest episode of Opening Arguments pretty much laments that this, which they see as the weakest case, is being brought first. Unless, of course Bragg has additional evidence concerning this or other crimes we’re not aware of.

Then again, this may be the first hole in the dike, and other indictments could soon follow. The idea of Trump facing charges in GA and DC and NY concurrently remains on my wish list.

As an aside, I still try to catch Opening Arguments. It remains informative, but has lost much of the charm it had when Thomas was the co-host. Especially sad it ended the way it did.

[bruto]

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B

The latest episode of Opening Arguments pretty much laments that this, which they see as the weakest case, is being brought first. Unless, of course Bragg has additional evidence concerning this or other crimes we’re not aware of.

Then again, this may be the first hole in the dike, and other indictments could soon follow. The idea of Trump facing charges in GA and DC and NY concurrently remains on my wish list.

As an aside, I still try to catch Opening Arguments. It remains informative, but has lost much of the charm it had when Thomas was the co-host. Especially sad it ended the way it did.

There's also the possibility that though small, this case provides an opportunity for him to incite another riot, this time without the presidential excuse, and to commit perjury and contempt of court in a venue where pretending it didn't happen will be pretty difficult.

[shemp]

Originally Posted by bruto

There's also the possibility that though small, this case provides an opportunity for him to incite another riot, this time without the presidential excuse, and to commit perjury and contempt of court in a venue where pretending it didn't happen will be pretty difficult.

This. He can't keep himself from talking. He'll insist on testifying, and he's sure to lie.

[varwoche]

Originally Posted by shemp

This. He can't keep himself from talking. He'll insist on testifying, and he's sure to lie.

I don't think so. This will be his first go-around as a criminal defendant. His fear and his lawyers will convince him that's a bad idea.

[Foster Zygote]

Originally Posted by shemp

This. He can't keep himself from talking. He'll insist on testifying, and he's sure to lie.

He seems to genuinely believe that he's a master manipulator who can talk rings around anyone, and that his lawyers are just intellectually inferior flying monkeys (sometimes almost literally) who do his bidding. I'm sure he thinks that if he can just take the stand he can talk himself out of anything by virtue of his tremendous thinking and... huge words. I pray to Loki that he takes the stand.

[Foster Zygote]

Originally Posted by varwoche

I don't think so. This will be his first go-around as a criminal defendant. His fear and his lawyers will convince him that's a bad idea.

Quite possibly. But I wonder if his fear-driven instinct won't be to try to personally ******** his way out. At any rate, I'd rather imagine his lawyers tackling him to stop him from testifying than imagine generals tackling him to stop him from nuking the EU.

[alfaniner]

Originally Posted by Doubt

The best reason to doubt Trump getting arrested on Tuesday is that Trump is the source of that information. Although I hope he is not lying this time.

I would like to see them arrest him on Monday because he cannot be trusted to turn himself in on Tuesday. Probably won't happen that way.

For once, I'd like them to wait a little longer. Wait for the protests on Tuesday to pass. Indict him on Thursday morning at 9am.

[TragicMonkey]

I think he's going to appear in court, get outraged, and attempt to leap for the judge's throat. He'll have a massive heart attack from the physical exertion and die on the spot, and his post mortem bowel movement will be of truly amazing size and stench, so much so that he ends up in the Guiness Book of World Records for it thanks to all the video documentation of the event.

Okay, maybe "hope" rather than "think".

[Mike!]

I'm wondering if there's some symbolic religious aspect to Tuesday that I'm not seeing, like, was Jesus arrested on a Tuesday by chance?
After seeing the pretzelized hoops some have willingly jumped through in order to compare Trump to Christ, I could see him attempting to capitalize on any aspect he could spin this in his 'favor' with the fans.

[shemp]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I think he's going to appear in court, get outraged, and attempt to leap for the judge's throat. He'll have a massive heart attack from the physical exertion and die on the spot, and his post mortem bowel movement will be of truly amazing size and stench, so much so that he ends up in the Guiness Book of World Records for it thanks to all the video documentation of the event.

Okay, maybe "hope" rather than "think".

I would pay every cent I have to see this happen! Could we add that missing classified documents are found in the bowel movement?

[bruto]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I think he's going to appear in court, get outraged, and attempt to leap for the judge's throat. He'll have a massive heart attack from the physical exertion and die on the spot, and his post mortem bowel movement will be of truly amazing size and stench, so much so that he ends up in the Guiness Book of World Records for it thanks to all the video documentation of the event.

Okay, maybe "hope" rather than "think".

If I were the sort I'd be praying for this one.

I'm thinking of some old cartoon in which a frog gets so full of himself that he overinflates and explodes.

As an alternative, I would love to see him appear in court, and start talking, and then a few well placed members of the audience start laughing. The communicable nature of laughing kicks in and soon everyone is howling and can't stop. Then he explodes!

[Stacyhs]

At this point, all I want to see is his fat ass being arrested.

[Skeptic Ginger]

It's like the 3 prosecutors playing chicken with each other: "I'm not going first, you go first".

Tues is just specific enough that maybe Bragg notified Trump's attorneys. Trump tries to call up protesters (bet only a handful show up), and his attorney, Tacopenis, tries to threaten indicting him will assure he's elected in 2024. Trump's down to the bottom of the barrel with that attorney.

All of these prosecutors have a problem, how to jail Trump with his secret service protection. So I bet Bragg won't ask the judge to keep him as a flight risk.

[Venom]

I imagine it's going to be a bunch of people going to receive Trump, who is surrounded by a bunch of people himself, and they just walk him.

Some people in my feed seem to want to see him shoved against a wall his rights read to him by the police.

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

It's like the 3 prosecutors playing chicken with each other: "I'm not going first, you go first".

Tues is just specific enough that maybe Bragg notified Trump's attorneys. Trump tries to call up protesters (bet only a handful show up), and his attorney, Tacopenis, tries to threaten indicting him will assure he's elected in 2024. Trump's down to the bottom of the barrel with that attorney.

All of these prosecutors have a problem, how to jail Trump with his secret service protection. So I bet Bragg won't ask the judge to keep him as a flight risk.

The moment Trump thinks he is going to be seriously in trouble is when he "suddenly" has to go spend months or years "doing business" in Saudi Arabia or Moscow or some other bolt-hole. The whole presidential run thing is simply to keep his fat ass safe from prosecution. If that opportunity disappears then, just like his bankrupt casinos, he will simply wash his hands of it and move on to safety and his next scam. MAGA? Protest? He could not care less.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Venom

I imagine it's going to be a bunch of people going to receive Trump, who is surrounded by a bunch of people himself, and they just walk him.

I suspect that's the way it will go down.

Quote:

Some people in my feed seem to want to see him shoved against a wall his rights read to him by the police.

Wouldn't bother me on iota but that's not what's going to happen.

[GlennB]

With Boris Johnson facing an investigating committee then Tuesday might prove entertaining

[newyorkguy]

Not likely, but we can dream!

[Aridas]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

Not likely, but we can dream!

It'd be nice and likely a better world... it just wouldn't be a perfect world. In a "perfect" world, Trump wouldn't have become President in the first place, among many other things.

[Solitaire]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

All of these prosecutors have a problem, how to jail Trump with his
secret service protection. So I bet Bragg won't ask the judge to keep
him as a flight risk.

Like I said before, build the Min Max, the worlds smallest maximum
security prison. Just spray paint everything a gold color and everything
will be fine.

[Stacyhs]

Alina Habba, one of DT's lawyers, was asked on CNN why he is claiming he's going to be arrested on Tues. when he has not been notified of that by anyone. Her response:

"It's a very important thing that he does because we have Hunter Biden who we've seen has ties to China. We've got his dead brother's wife who we've heard this week has been funneling money from China as well. So what happens is the Democrats now have to pull the wool over our heads and you've seen memes, I'm sure, that say 'Ok, so arrest Donald Trump' so that's exactly what they did. So my client is getting ahead of it, frankly, and he's smart to do so. I think when you hear a lot of noise like this you have to pull the curtains back and say this is a problem for Democrats who are losing in the polls, he's ahead and we've got major crises happening. In New York you've got people dying and this is what a state DA is doing be after a failed federal DA couldn't do it. So, I'm glad he's doing it and getting ahead of it. Let's see if they arrest him but I'll tell you that, if they choose to do so, it will be a misdemeanor which, frankly, he didn't even do. It is going to cause mayhem, Paula. It's a very scary time in our country."

Okaaaay...she never actually answered the question of why he is claiming he'll be arrested on Tuesday. Instead, she crams in as many of the talking points as she can.
1) Hunter Biden - China payments
2) It's the Dems who are using an arrest to distract from that
3) Dems are losing in the polls (no, they're not)
4) Irrelevant "crime in NY"
5) It's just a misdemeanor
6) He didn't do it anyway
7) It'll cause mayhem

When then asked if DT should be more careful in calling for "protests", Habba resorts to asking why is it a problem for him to bring up protests which are a Constitutional right when it's OK for 'left-wing' protests like from BLM and left-wing politicians when we have parents who are protesting transitioning children when they have no idea what their sexuality is what. She continues to ask why it's a problem for DT to call for protests when it's not for others. "We are not Russia."

Again, she's asked if DT should not be more careful in his language.
Habba skirts the actual question yet again and says "his language is to protest and that's an American right." then refers to Carlson's video with "We've recently seen footage of Jan. 6 which suggests things were not the way they were turning it, it's a spin, just like everything else."

Habba is a typical political lawyer: facts don't matter. But she's right about one thing: it's spin...only by her.

[Stacyhs]

They've now combined the E. Jean Carroll suits into one.

[Ziggurat]

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

That argument is useless as it has been established by the courts that these payments constituted a crime.

No. That isn't how it works. A guilty plea in one case doesn't set precedent for other cases.

[Ziggurat]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Trump has repeatedly claimed there was no affair/sex and that Daniels is lying. Using wanting to 'protect his wife' (LOL!) from a scandal and not solely to benefit his campaign rings rather hollow, especially since it's been reported Melania has no illusions about her husband's infidelities.

It doesn't have to be to protect Melania. Him saying so to the press isn't legally binding. It can even be just to protect his own image. He has a history of paying hush money to women he slept with even before he ran for office, so it's trivial to argue that there are non campaign reasons to do so.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

It doesn't have to be to protect Melania. Him saying so to the press isn't legally binding. It can even be just to protect his own image. He has a history of paying hush money to women he slept with even before he ran for office, so it's trivial to argue that there are non campaign reasons to do so.

A statement by him isn't legally binding, but it certainly can be used as evidence of what his motive was.

I wouldn't be surprised if the AG has more evidence than what has been revealed. If it were just a simple misdemeanor as many GOPers are claiming, I highly doubt the NY AG would be pursuing it. It wouldn't be worth it.

[alfaniner]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

<snip>
Again, she's asked if DT should not be more careful in his language.
Habba skirts the actual question yet again and says "his language is to protest and that's an American right." then refers to Carlson's video with "We've recently seen footage of Jan. 6 which suggests things were not the way they were turning it, it's a spin, just like everything else."

Habba is a typical political lawyer: facts don't matter. But she's right about one thing: it's spin...only by her.

One thing I learned from the movie Zootopia -- it's when the fox is telling the rabbit how to sidestep uncomfortable political questions in an interview: "You just ignore it and say 'Well, the real question is...' and then just say what you really wanted to say instead." Ever since hearing that I've noticed it being used dozens of times in political interviews.

[Ziggurat]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

A statement by him isn't legally binding, but it certainly can be used as evidence of what his motive was.

Except you don't want to use it as evidence. You want to discount it. Using it as evidence would be exculpatory.

Quote:

I wouldn't be surprised if the AG has more evidence than what has been revealed. If it were just a simple misdemeanor as many GOPers are claiming, I highly doubt the NY AG would be pursuing it. It wouldn't be worth it.

Why would you doubt it? A conviction is political gold, even if it's only for a misdemeanor. Democrats would reward that for decades to come. Hell, they might reward him even without a conviction. I see plenty of worth in pursuing a politically motivated prosecution. This would hardly be the first.