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Tags donald trump , James Comey , lying charges , Michael Flynn

View Poll Results: Who do you believe, Trump or Comey?
Trump, because he is a President of great integrity who would never lie. 4 4.26%
Comey, the recently fired disgruntled employee. 90 95.74%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 19th May 2017, 08:06 AM   #1
acbytesla
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Who is telling the truth?

According to recent reports Comey was asked in a private meeting to back off the investigation of Michael Flynn and yesterday during a press conference Trump was asked if he did and Trump gave a definitive no.
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:13 AM   #2
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The boy scout's word vs the feline grabber? Not a hard choice.
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:14 AM   #3
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Comey. </thread>
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:25 AM   #4
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I think the growing narrative is that 45 is a political neophyte and not a legal scholar (hah!), so he didn't know what he was doing might be wrong. And, anyway, he was joking.
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:37 AM   #5
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Let's see, Comey documented the conversation and sent it to others right after it happened. So it is impossible that he's making this up to get revenge on Trump. The only way he isn't telling the truth is if he decided immediately after the conversation to write a memo documenting a version that didn't happen. Seems very far fetched to me.

Trump denying it means nothing to me. He lies all the time. If he did it, I would expect him to lie about it.
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:37 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
I think the growing narrative is that 45 is a political neophyte and not a legal scholar (hah!), so he didn't know what he was doing might be wrong. And, anyway, he was joking.
I think the growing narrative is that Trump does not comprehend the concept of "reality."
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:38 AM   #7
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Ha, ha- this is one of those trick joke questions, right? The survivors aren't buried? Apples don't fall from peach tress? Something like that?

If not, I'll vote the sane person.
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:42 AM   #8
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Duh, Comey is telling the truth.

And the "recently fired disgruntled employee" is a red herring. Comey documented the encounter in his memo, and told about it to Wittes, before he was fired.
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:43 AM   #9
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What, no Planet X option ?

IMO, it's entirely possible that neither person is fully lying or telling the truth. I only know the two men from the media but my impression of Comey is that he will have accurately recorded the version of the truth that he heard and remembered but humans are fallible and anything he saw or heard, he did so through the lens of his own experience. For example he clearly thinks that Trump talking about Flynn being a good guy so could you please lay off was an attempt to influence the investigation.

OTOH I think that Trump is a confabulist whose perception reality is significantly different to other people's. He seems to construct a narrative he is happy with and then goes with that rather than the truth. His recollection of the Flynn-cident may be that he was just thinking out loud or talking mano-a-mano and had no intention of trying to influence the investigation.

That said, IMO Comey is the more reliable witness by several orders of magnitude.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:23 AM   #10
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What criteria do we use to decide who is telling the truth? Do previous statements that the President has made that have turned out to be false effect our trust?

Does it make a difference that Comey moments after the alleged incident wrote a mem-con (memo of conversation) detailing the conversation and sent it to his staff and others make his claim more believable?
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:25 AM   #11
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Glad you phrased it as "telling the truth." It's entirely possible that Trump has no memory of the event or has convinced himself that something totally different happened.

It would be therefore difficult to say he was a lying, a charge that implies the competence to form intent.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:27 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Glad you phrased it as "telling the truth." It's entirely possible that Trump has no memory of the event or has convinced himself that something totally different happened.

It would be therefore difficult to say he was a lying, a charge that implies the competence to form intent.
So, he better hope there is a "tape" of the meeting?
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:28 AM   #13
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Bayesian Statistics say Comey.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:29 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
So, he better hope there is a "tape" of the meeting?
He put it in quotes - that could mean tape as in recording, as in scotch, or as in worm.

He's left himself some possibilities.

Or it could mean a recording of Obama smoking weed in 1975.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:30 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
What, no Planet X option ?
We have become Planet X.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:31 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
....
That said, IMO Comey is the more reliable witness by several orders of magnitude.
Supporting that, many observers note that FBI agents are trained to document everything, and their reports are generally considered reliable evidence in legal proceedings. I think the fact that Comey not only wrote his memos but shared them with colleagues at the time is decisive.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:35 AM   #17
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Trump is well known for being truthful, trustworthy and above all else a highly principled man. Of course he would never ever lie.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:36 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Supporting that, many observers note that FBI agents are trained to document everything, and their reports are generally considered reliable evidence in legal proceedings. I think the fact that Comey not only wrote his memos but shared them with colleagues at the time is decisive.
Yes, people have been convicted largely on those sorts of memos.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:37 AM   #19
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Let's face it, any claim of Trump's comes with a presumption of dishonesty.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:42 AM   #20
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I'm still waiting for an authoritative confirmation that Comey actually told Trump that he wasn't under investigation by the FBI. Trump said Comey had done so not just once but thrice.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:48 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
We have become Planet X.
And Batboy is president.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:57 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
We have become Planet X.
That gives me some comfort that, out there somewhere, there is an Earth-like planet where the populace finally got rid of their idiocricy and elected, instead, a reasonable, experienced, and sincere President.
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:09 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
I think the growing narrative is that 45 is a political neophyte and not a legal scholar (hah!), so he didn't know what he was doing might be wrong.
To be honest, if we assume that Trump did what the Comey memo says he did and that was his excuse; I'd accept that as an excuse provided there was no real effect of him doing something so silly.

I'd bet that was what Comey was thinking as well at the time. "This is a funky thing to ask, but I don't think he actually understands he's not supposed to do that, and I don't think he actually intends to do anything. But lets keep a record of this just in case." <fast forward to his firing> "Holy S@&@ he was serious about getting me to stop this investigation!"
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
To be honest, if we assume that Trump did what the Comey memo says he did and that was his excuse; I'd accept that as an excuse provided there was no real effect of him doing something so silly.

I'd bet that was what Comey was thinking as well at the time. "This is a funky thing to ask, but I don't think he actually understands he's not supposed to do that, and I don't think he actually intends to do anything. But lets keep a record of this just in case." <fast forward to his firing> "Holy S@&@ he was serious about getting me to stop this investigation!"
Yeah, me too, more or less. The sad thing is in just a few short months we've decided that utter incompetence is OK in our highest elected office. Ugh.
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:23 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
I'd bet that was what Comey was thinking as well at the time. "This is a funky thing to ask, but I don't think he actually understands he's not supposed to do that, and I don't think he actually intends to do anything. But lets keep a record of this just in case." [Snip..]
This is more where I fall on the spectrum. It was not an overt attempt to stifle or end the investigation, but was off-putting enough for Comey to want some documentation in case this behavior increased or became more specific/pronounced in future meetings.

I like the idea of subpoenaing all Comey's memos in regards to meetings with Trump, if there are any, to see if subsequent conversations touched on this subject. Not to mention having the entirety of this specific memo viewed by appropriate committees.
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:23 AM   #26
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If Trump lies about dumb things like the size of his inauguration crowd, or his "landslide," how the **** can he be trusted not to lie about stuff that could get him removed from office?
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:28 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
Yeah, me too, more or less. The sad thing is in just a few short months we've decided that utter incompetence is OK in our highest elected office. Ugh.
Not just utter incompetence, but blind and corrupt allegiance and obedience to utter incompetent leadership is OK.

'Yes, we know your boss is a total incompetent fool who is likely to get us all killed but you owe the man your undying loyalty because 44 percent of Americans voted for him.'
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:29 AM   #28
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I'm wondering if none of our right wing friends have seen this poll or if they are voting Comey, too.
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:31 AM   #29
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As a resident right wing loon, I didn't vote because...

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
What, no Planet X option ?

IMO, it's entirely possible that neither person is fully lying or telling the truth.

Snip...
Yep, I was about to post, invalid poll, no Planet X option. Man, I wish people could follow proper forum decorum.
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:34 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Yep, I was about to post, invalid poll, no Planet X option. Man, I wish people could follow proper forum decorum.
I'm sorry, I had never created a poll on ISF and I didn't know that was a requirement.
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:34 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Not just utter incompetence, but blind and corrupt allegiance and obedience to utter incompetent leadership is OK.

'Yes, we know your boss is a total incompetent fool who is likely to get us all killed but you owe the man your undying loyalty because 44 percent of Americans voted for him.'
Actually it was far less than that, nearly half of the electorate didn't bother to vote at all

IIRC it's closer to 27%
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:36 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm sorry, I had never created a poll on ISF and I didn't know that was a requirement.
You've been here five years, that's more than enough time to learn your way around. Now go flog yourself with a wet noodle for five minutes, one minute for each year of membership.
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:37 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Actually it was far less than that, nearly half of the electorate didn't bother to vote at all

IIRC it's closer to 27%
I didn't even factor in non-voters. It's probably a lot less than 27 percent when you consider the people that are ineligible to vote.
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:54 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
I think the growing narrative is that Trump does not comprehend the concept of "reality."
Since Trump is the Smartest Guy in the Room (any room) and such a generally awesome billionaire and the POTUS, reality is whatever Trump says it is. Anything that contradicts Trump's reality is fake.
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:59 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
According to recent reports Comey was asked in a private meeting to back off the investigation of Michael Flynn and yesterday during a press conference Trump was asked if he did and Trump gave a definitive no.

Trump's long record for lying is clearly etched in stone. He has no credibility when it comes to truth and facts.
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Old 19th May 2017, 11:03 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
That gives me some comfort that, out there somewhere, there is an Earth-like planet where the populace finally got rid of their idiocricy and elected, instead, a reasonable, experienced, and sincere President.
We would have gotten two out of three if we'd elected Hillary. Better than none out of three.

In case anybody wonders, I'm suggesting that Hillary fall short on "sincere".
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Old 19th May 2017, 11:08 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
If Trump lies about dumb things like the size of his inauguration crowd, or his "landslide," how the **** can he be trusted not to lie about stuff that could get him removed from office?
Can he be trusted not to lie about ...? Hell no.

Is he smart or knowledgeable enough to identify "stuff that could get him removed from office"? Also hell no.

It's entirely possible that Trump will think up some "clever" lie that he thinks exonerates him completely, and he will be impeached because it's believed.
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Old 19th May 2017, 12:28 PM   #38
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This poll you can trust. It's not like the others.



Come in a landslide!
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Old 19th May 2017, 12:37 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
This poll you can trust. It's not like the others.

Come in a landslide!
I knew it would poll heavily in Comey's favor. But still. Wow!

I can't help to wonder who the 1 is?
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Old 19th May 2017, 01:10 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
If Trump lies about dumb things like the size of his inauguration crowd, or his "landslide," how the **** can he be trusted not to lie about stuff that could get him removed from office?
FTFY. WaPo counted 500 lies during his first 100 days.
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