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Tags Nicolas Maduro , Venezuela economy , Venezuela issues , Venezuela politics

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Old 13th February 2014, 01:12 PM   #201
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by funk de fino View Post
Interesting factoid - every one of the graduates on my colleagues Engineering degree course has left the country. Every single one. Not one of them say they will ever return. The future of the country is leaving and they never want to go back. That is sad.
Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as “bad luck.”
- Robert Heinlein

Venezuela has just hit a patch of bad luck, that's all.
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Old 13th February 2014, 01:19 PM   #202
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Bad luck and CIA sabotage.
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Old 17th February 2014, 01:40 AM   #203
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An update is long overdue.

Venezuela rose in riots last week, with a few deaths. Looks like a fairly spontaneous revolt like Ukraine. Here's a brief summary:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/13/wo...ests.html?_r=0

The government took actions which should rightfully take it right out of Mercosur until they cleared their act. Not surprisingly the paragons of democracy in Brasilia and Buenos Aries remain silent. They suspended Paraguay for less.
http://hotair.com/archives/2014/02/1...ests-continue/

The background is well known, a good article on it:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle16771856/

It looks like Venezuela is on the fastback to becoming a no trick pony. Bankrupting a major oil producer with vast untapped reserves during an oil boom is quite an achievement.

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Old 17th February 2014, 02:06 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Bankrupting a major oil producer with vast untapped reserves during an oil boom is quite an achievement.

McHrozni
They practically give the stuff away for free to their own citizens. A few cents per gallon. 5 cents according to this. And that's at the official exchange rate. If you covert to the black market exchange rate, it's half a penny per gallon.

Quote:
Unlimited access to virtually free gasoline has become something of a Venezuelan birthright, and raising prices is considered the third rail of Venezuelan politics. Deadly riots broke out in 1989 at the possibility of a price hike. Not even Hugo Chávez, who died last March after 14 years in power, dared to mess with the pumps.

But with annual inflation topping 50% and the government burning through hard-currency reserves, Chávez's successor, Nicolas Maduro, appears to have no choice. The government is spending more than $12bn a year to subsidise domestic gasoline sales, Venezuelan energy officials say. The projected price hike is likely to push gas closer to 17 cents a gallon, at unofficial exchange rates.
Even at 17 cents a gallon, that's still practically free compared to anywhere else. Even Saudi Arabia.

Just one of the extremely illogical policies that is ruining the economy there.
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Old 17th February 2014, 02:34 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
They practically give the stuff away for free to their own citizens. A few cents per gallon. 5 cents according to this. And that's at the official exchange rate. If you covert to the black market exchange rate, it's half a penny per gallon.



Even at 17 cents a gallon, that's still practically free compared to anywhere else. Even Saudi Arabia.

Just one of the extremely illogical policies that is ruining the economy there.
Jup, extremely illogical, and one that propelled Hugo early on. One of his demands in 1996 was to retain the gasoline subsidy. It's not just gasoline though, electricity is practically free as well. The title of the topic explains much in the way of results. They also heavily subsidize Cuba and a number of other Caribbean nations through PetroCaribe (for political support). Another heavy subsidy is severe repression of domestic production by favoring imports with overvalued currency, depressing the economy further.

Venezuela used to have a strong economy. It took a decade of extremely bad policies for the collapse to complete. Now it's a basket case, by the end of the year they will have nothing that won't depend directly to the oil dollars to survive.

McHrozni

Last edited by McHrozni; 17th February 2014 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 17th February 2014, 09:14 AM   #206
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Fear not, all will soon be fine because Maduro has taken action to rectify all wrongs.
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Old 17th February 2014, 09:29 AM   #207
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We haven't heard from Childlike Empress in a while. I guess there are limits to her appologetics.
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Old 17th February 2014, 12:30 PM   #208
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Since she finds it reasonable that the USG weaponized cancer and used it to kill Chavez, her views of the current situation are fairly predictable. Not really any need for a direct contribution.
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Old 20th February 2014, 12:17 AM   #209
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Yesterday evening and night were apparently pretty hot, judging from private sources. They could easily put Ukraine to shame in scale of violence and repression.

No good sources yet, it's a developing story - and Venezuelan media bows to the government, complicating things.

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Old 20th February 2014, 07:00 PM   #210
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The Game Changed in Venezuela Last Night

The Game Changed in Venezuela Last Night – and the International Media Is Asleep At the Switch

Quote:
Dear International Editor:

Listen and understand. The game changed in Venezuela last night. What had been a slow-motion unravelling that had stretched out over many years went kinetic all of a sudden.

What we have this morning is no longer the Venezuela story you thought you understood.
Some of the videos linked to the linked article are chilling. Like Kiev on a smaller, but no less violent, scale.
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Old 20th February 2014, 08:53 PM   #211
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Yikes.
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Old 20th February 2014, 10:20 PM   #212
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Dear self important Venezuelan journalist person.
Quote:
As of 11 a.m. this morning, the New York Times World Section has…nothing.
Maybe you overestimate how important your nation is, to anybody but yourselves.
FFS, the Curling medal is at stake in Sochi!



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Old 20th February 2014, 10:48 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The Game Changed in Venezuela Last Night – and the International Media Is Asleep At the Switch



Some of the videos linked to the linked article are chilling. Like Kiev on a smaller, but no less violent, scale.
Maybe those of us who saw sinister signs early on in the Chavismo cult were onto something.
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Old 21st February 2014, 12:16 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The Game Changed in Venezuela Last Night – and the International Media Is Asleep At the Switch

Some of the videos linked to the linked article are chilling. Like Kiev on a smaller, but no less violent, scale.
The key protests are in San Cristobal, where the government has taken a DPRK-esque approach: cut internet, power and water, prevent the non-governmental media from going there. The unrest probably mirrors the one in Ukraine in size, but not in coverage.

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Old 21st February 2014, 08:18 PM   #215
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I'd be interested in Sean Penn's view of the current situation. So far, nothing. In fairness, he has been busy partying with his new girlfriend.
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Old 21st February 2014, 10:16 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Dear self important Venezuelan journalist person.

Maybe you overestimate how important your nation is, to anybody but yourselves.
FFS, the Curling medal is at stake in Sochi!



Considering that Venezuela has 2/3 the population of Ukraine and twice the GDP of the same, and is closer to us, I would think it warrants at least as much attention as the situation in Ukraine.
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Old 22nd February 2014, 08:16 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Considering that Venezuela has 2/3 the population of Ukraine and twice the GDP of the same, and is closer to us, I would think it warrants at least as much attention as the situation in Ukraine.

Or more ... so why isn't CNN covering it now?
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Old 22nd February 2014, 09:03 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by balrog666 View Post
Or more ... so why isn't CNN covering it now?
Because all the news media has been kicked out of the region.

Quote:
A media blackout has stymied the flow of information during some of the most intense days of clashes between anti-government protesters and authorities. In addition, strict regulations have pressured media outlets to tread softly when it comes to covering the violence.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/21/world/...-from-fiction/
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Old 22nd February 2014, 09:07 PM   #219
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Video of February 12 protest in Caracas
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Old 23rd February 2014, 02:40 PM   #220
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I finally found a comment on the current unrest from a celebrity Chavismo enthusiast. It's Oliver Stone, and guess who he's blaming?

Quote:
South America has undergone a sea change away from being the US backyard to where it is actually independent, increasingly so. . . . You mentioned Venezuela. I am fine with all the political opposition to Chávez, as long as it’s done legally; there is a method by which you can protest — but now, the opposition is increasingly behaving like the Republican Party here in the United States, where is it is trying to block, criticize, destroy any attempt at negotiation or trying to do business and get on with it. . . .
The recent manifestations in Venezuela, of the students . . . it seems to be reaching a new kind of violence . . . There seems to be a desire to reach out, to kill, to create disturbances in the street protests; students go down, and one has to believe that something is behind it . . . but if the chaos descends, then it will look terrible, because the western media has been so against Chávez, and Ecuador, and Bolivia.
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Old 23rd February 2014, 03:31 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Considering that Venezuela has 2/3 the population of Ukraine and twice the GDP of the same, and is closer to us, I would think it warrants at least as much attention as the situation in Ukraine.
Sorry, no
Venezuela: isn't next door to an important power
(sorry, Brazil, you aren't there yet, even though you are a fine country).

Venezuela: is not and was not part of a Cold War Power

Venezuela: isn't linked to the EU, or Europe, economically via agricultural export.

Venezuela: just isn't that important ... beyond petroleum, unless of course you or your family is from Venezueala. Then, Venezuela is very important. I think Hugo understood this, and part of his grandstanding for all those years was to get up and yell "Hey, look at us, we matter" (and "Hey, look at me, I matter") as much as anything else.
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Old 23rd February 2014, 07:54 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Because all the news media has been kicked out of the region.


http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/21/world/...-from-fiction/

So ... if they don't have an entire team of pig-ignorant bozos there on the spot they somehow just can't bring themselves to reveal what is happening there, no matter how significant on the World scene?
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Old 23rd February 2014, 08:15 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
I finally found a comment on the current unrest from a celebrity Chavismo enthusiast. It's Oliver Stone, and guess who he's blaming?

Wow...just...wow.

I'm a liberal Democrat and that comparison and logic doesn't sway me at all. He undermines all his criticisms at once.
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Old 23rd February 2014, 08:28 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by balrog666 View Post
So ... if they don't have an entire team of pig-ignorant bozos there on the spot they somehow just can't bring themselves to reveal what is happening there, no matter how significant on the World scene?
They seem to be covering it.

http://edition.cnn.com/
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Old 23rd February 2014, 11:32 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
I finally found a comment on the current unrest from a celebrity Chavismo enthusiast. It's Oliver Stone, and guess who he's blaming?
Notice how he says he's "fine with the legal opposition". I find the fact he must explicitly say he condones opposition, if it conforms to legal norms, troubling. First of all, it should be a given to anyone who supports (a) democracy, there no reason to say it out loud. Secondly, Chavizmo controls the courts - which implies a whole range of problems of relying on law and legality.

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Old 24th February 2014, 12:19 AM   #226
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CNN seems to be talking about relatively small groups of students and some of the middle class. They're talking about "thousands" marching in Caracas.

This is how they looked this Saturday:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SB1KAcUgjb...all+around.jpg

Either Venezuela has by far the largest share of students in the world, or the CNN reports significantly underrate the scale of opposition to Chavista regime.

McHrozni

Last edited by McHrozni; 24th February 2014 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 25th February 2014, 06:04 PM   #227
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Protesters explain their reasons:
Quote:
“It would be easier to ask why we would not protest”
Venezuelans have a million reasons to protest. We have one of the highest murder rates in the world – two people per hour – rampant inflation at a rate of 60% a year, basic products like milk, oil, sugar, chicken are not available in supermarkets, if we want to travel we have to go through a bureaucratic nightmare to be able to buy foreign currency limited to less than £2000 a year, we have no liberty of expression if we do not concur with the governments ideas we are completely ignored. We are protesting for our lives and our dignity.
It seems positive developments in Venezuela, such as reductions in poverty levels, are attributed to Chavismo glory, while negative developments are the result of Western imperialism and false-flag conspiracies. Interesting.

Meanwhile, commentator monkofgreatrenown sums up the regime position pretty well:
Quote:
monkofgreatrenown
21 February 2014 7:50pm

Recommend
64
True Patriotic Venezuelans would never protest against the amazing Socialist regime and the heaven on earth that it has created.
These people must be the tools and shills of a West/US/Zionist/Capitalist/Troll/DM-reader plot
Indeed.
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Old 26th February 2014, 12:53 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
It seems positive developments in Venezuela, such as reductions in poverty levels, are attributed to Chavismo glory, while negative developments are the result of Western imperialism and false-flag conspiracies. Interesting.
That paragon of objective reporting Venezuelanalysis alledges Uribe and US are to blame and mercenaries have been deployed in Venezuela.

Such scapegoating is par for the course for the said country and outlet. I do wonder who will they blame for their total failure if they manage to cling on to power after this disturbance. Certainly a fascist coup attempt initially, but what next? There will be no business owners left to blame three months from now if this continues.

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Old 26th February 2014, 08:57 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
I do wonder who will they blame for their total failure if they manage to cling on to power after this disturbance. Certainly a fascist coup attempt initially, but what next? There will be no business owners left to blame three months from now if this continues.
Saboteurs.

It worked for you-know-who.
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Old 27th February 2014, 12:58 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Saboteurs.

It worked for you-know-who.
Most probably, aye. I wonder when this will start to backfire.

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Old 27th February 2014, 01:58 PM   #231
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Quote:
True Patriotic Venezuelans would never protest against the amazing Socialist regime and the heaven on earth that it has created.
These people must be the tools and shills of a West/US/Zionist/Capitalist/Troll/DM-reader plot

Scary thing is how many of the Chavez Fanboys outside of Venezuela would actually sign on to that statement.
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Old 27th February 2014, 03:32 PM   #232
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No question about it.
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Old 28th February 2014, 12:39 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Scary thing is how many of the Chavez Fanboys outside of Venezuela would actually sign on to that statement.
The country is getting an increasingly DPRK-esque vibe. I forsee that if the regime survives another three years, Chavez will again be president for eternity - the second head of state to achieve that after assuming room temperature.

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Old 1st March 2014, 07:31 PM   #234
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ANy bets as to how long until the Venzauelan government comes out in favor of Putin's invasion of the Crimea to curry favor with him?
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Old 7th March 2014, 05:06 PM   #235
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Venezuela Opens Foreign Exchange Market as Protests Continue

Quote:
Venezuela’s government said it will relax exchange controls imposed over the past decade as it attempts to ease shortages of basic goods and damp deadly protests over the rising cost of living. Bonds rallied.

The state won’t impose restrictions on trading in the so-called Sicad 2 market when it starts on March 10, Economy Vice President Rafael Ramirez said. The government will offer “significant” foreign currency to the new market while it continues to ensure an exchange rate of 6.3 bolivars per dollar for essential imports such as medicines, he said. Francisco Rodriguez, a Latin American economist at Bank of America, said the move amounts to a devaluation.

“There will be no pre-set band or rate, it will be a market with a free supply of foreign currency,” Ramirez told reporters in Caracas today. “We will also supply currency to help the market flow.”

A shortage of dollars has crimped imports, leaving supermarket shelves partially empty and pushing annual inflation to 56 percent, the fastest in the world. The economic crisis in Venezuela, which has the world’s biggest oil reserves, has fueled protests against President Nicolas Maduro’s government that have left at least 19 people dead.
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Old 10th March 2014, 12:40 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
The most sane Chavista move ever, 200%+ inflation notwithstanding. Floating the Bolivar 'fuerte' will at least start to balance the budget.

This will also destroy the livelihoods of all leeches who grow fat off the exchange rate arbitrage and form the backbone of Chavista support. Without them the Chavista state will not be able to win many more elections, resulting in either a Cuba-like state, or a revolution.

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Old 10th March 2014, 08:19 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
The most sane Chavista move ever, 200%+ inflation notwithstanding. Floating the Bolivar 'fuerte' will at least start to balance the budget.

This will also destroy the livelihoods of all leeches who grow fat off the exchange rate arbitrage and form the backbone of Chavista support. Without them the Chavista state will not be able to win many more elections, resulting in either a Cuba-like state, or a revolution.
Invest in Venezuelan body bag futures. You could make some serious beer money.
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Old 2nd June 2014, 04:31 PM   #238
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Venezuela now rationing drinking water and electricity:

Quote:
Residents of the Venezuelan capital of Caracas, who already struggle to find toilet paper and deodorant, are facing a new shortage — drinking water.

The rationing of tap water amid a drought and a shortage of bottles because of currency controls are forcing people to form long lines at grocery stores and bottle shops as soon as deliveries are made. Truck drivers spend much of their day outside water dispatch centers as they try to meet demand.

“I used to have to wait an hour to refill the truck, but now I have to wait six,” said Carlos Miliani from his truck outside the Alpina dispatch center in eastern Caracas. “More trucks are lining up here because of the shortage of plastic containers and the fact that plants that bottle mineral water have shut down.” …

Regulated prices for bottled water have not been raised since November 2011, industry association Anber said in a May 19 statement. Since then, consumer prices have risen 110 percent, according to central bank data, while the bolivar has lost 87 percent of its value on the black market, according to dolartoday.com, a website that tracks the value on the Colombian border.

Having transformed the economy into an efficient, well run operation, the revolution turns its attention to the classroom:

Quote:
Venezuela's government has published dozens of new textbooks that glorify late president Hugo Chavez and belittle his adversaries, infuriating opposition critics who call them part of a campaign to indoctrinate school children.
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Old 3rd June 2014, 05:48 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Invest in Venezuelan body bag futures. You could make some serious beer money.
Only if they still buy those body bags. I suspect that pretty soon, they'll nationalize the body bag supply, and when those run out, they'll just stop using body bags entirely. And they'll make up some excuse for it, like it's more environmentally friendly to let a corpse rot naturally.
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Old 3rd June 2014, 09:20 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Only if they still buy those body bags. I suspect that pretty soon, they'll nationalize the body bag supply, and when those run out, they'll just stop using body bags entirely. And they'll make up some excuse for it, like it's more environmentally friendly to let a corpse rot naturally.
I hear that making forced labor dig the trenches and dumping the bodies in, and adding lime, is cheaper and ends up with a better fertilizer sort of deal.

Oh, wait, did I just Godwin? All the Nazis went to Argentina, not Venezuela, so there's no way they'd ever go fascist in Venezuela, is there?

Fascism contained serious elements of nationalism when it first grew up in Europe, and I see no reason for fascism to not be an outcome of the move in Venezuela currently underway.

Invest in jackboot futures.
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