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Tags Nicolas Maduro , Venezuela economy , Venezuela issues , Venezuela politics

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Old 3rd June 2014, 09:49 PM   #241
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I notice that even the cool, edgy Forum anti-imperialists seem to have given up trying to defend the Glorious Bolivarian Revolution.
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Old 4th June 2014, 08:28 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
I notice that even the cool, edgy Forum anti-imperialists seem to have given up trying to defend the Glorious Bolivarian Revolution.
That's how bad the shortages are: they're even running out of apologists!
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Old 4th June 2014, 09:05 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
I notice that even the cool, edgy Forum anti-imperialists seem to have given up trying to defend the Glorious Bolivarian Revolution.
Chavez was elected. The most recent coup/revolution attempt was by anti Chavez forces.

Part of the problem with Venezuela is a lack of players who you would actualy want to see running the country.
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Old 4th June 2014, 02:57 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
Chavez was elected. The most recent coup/revolution attempt was by anti Chavez forces.
True; however Chavez's first bid for power was a failed coup. He favored a military road to leadership almost right up to his first successful election. Regardless, the term "Bolivian revolution" was used by Chavez and his supporters to describe the ideological revolt represented by the sweeping Chavismo socialist agenda. In that sense, the term is appropriate and widely used.

Quote:
Part of the problem with Venezuela is a lack of players who you would actualy want to see running the country.
The current environment makes it difficult for quality leadership to gain a high profile.
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Old 5th June 2014, 01:42 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
True; however Chavez's first bid for power was a failed coup. He favored a military road to leadership almost right up to his first successful election. Regardless, the term "Bolivian revolution" was used by Chavez and his supporters to describe the ideological revolt represented by the sweeping Chavismo socialist agenda. In that sense, the term is appropriate and widely used.
What is more, the term Bolivarian revolution was even introduced by Chavizmo and it's goons.
http://venezuelanalysis.com/tag/bolivarian-revolution

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Old 18th September 2014, 01:53 AM   #246
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Some recent news regarding the Venezuelan economy:

Inflation continues:
Opinion: Inflation Rains On Venezuela's Red Parade

Quote:
August this year closed with the greatest inflationary jump in 18 years. The cost of living has gone up 101 percent over the past 16 months. According to figures disclosed by the Central Bank, the average price of food and non-alcoholic beverages skyrocketed 210 percent in August 2012 - August 2014.

Year to date, food and non-alcoholic beverages have increased by 91 percent, housing by 55 percent, leisure and entertainment by 50 percent, transportation by 48 percent, clothing and apparel by 46 percent, health services by 36 percent and schools by 32 percent. The effect is devastating lower income families.
Another credit downgrade:
S&P Downgrades Venezuela on Worsening Economy

Quote:
Standard & Poor's Ratings Services on Tuesday cut Venezuela's credit rating further into junk territory, citing President Nicolás Maduro's failure to take steps to combat rising inflation and a deepening economic crisis.

S&P downgraded Venezuela's rating from B-minus to triple-C-plus. The new rating indicates that there is a one-in-two chance that the South American country defaults on its sovereign debt in the next two years, S&P said.

Though boasting the world's largest proven crude oil reserves, Venezuela's economy has been mired with the highest inflation rates in the Americas and chronic shortages of food, medicine and car parts as the government withholds dollars from importers, who are subject to restrictive currency controls.

S&P said it expects Venezuela's gross domestic product to fall by as much as 3.5% this year, with inflation rising by up to 65% by the end of the year.
And finally:

Venezuela has a breast implant shortage
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Old 18th September 2014, 05:21 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
What would they need those for? They plenty of boobs in the leadership.
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Old 18th September 2014, 06:08 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
What would they need those for? They plenty of boobs in the leadership.
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Old 18th September 2014, 11:47 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Some recent news regarding the Venezuelan economy:
Chickens coming home to roost. Almost impossible to believe a society floating on a sea of black gold could stumble its way into this.
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Old 18th September 2014, 11:06 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Chickens coming home to roost. Almost impossible to believe a society floating on a sea of black gold could stumble its way into this.
Most societies floating on a sea of black gold are facing the same future sometime down the line. Venezuela just managed to get there extremely fast.

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Old 19th September 2014, 12:29 AM   #251
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Of the countries that get a significant chunk of their national income from oil and gas, has anyone but Norway managed to become something else than a hellhole?
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Old 19th September 2014, 12:38 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Of the countries that get a significant chunk of their national income from oil and gas, has anyone but Norway managed to become something else than a hellhole?
Define "significant". Canada may qualify.

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Old 19th September 2014, 02:17 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Define "significant". Canada may qualify.
It won't, because I also get to define "something else han a hellhole".
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Old 19th September 2014, 02:27 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
It won't, because I also get to define "something else han a hellhole".
Hehe The Netherlands may be another contestant though, again depending on what "significant" is. UK as well.
That aside, your point is entirely valid: the majority of countries with vast oil wealth did in fact become hellholes.

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Old 19th September 2014, 06:59 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Quote:
Define "significant". Canada may qualify.
It won't, because I also get to define "something else han a hellhole".
Canada can't be a hellhole...

Hell is actually warm.
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Old 19th September 2014, 08:17 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Canada can't be a hellhole...

Hell is actually warm.
Give it a few centuries...
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Old 19th September 2014, 10:13 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Chickens coming home to roost. Almost impossible to believe a society floating on a sea of black gold could stumble its way into this.
Ya, hard to believe.

If only someone had a simple theory which predicted this over and over and over again, successfully.

Going from a corruption-based dictatorship to another corruption-based dictatorship, neither of which secures private rights to pursue business without massive kickbacks, grinding things to a halt, solves just what again?

This time it's ***my*** cronies who get to run the building approval departments, demanding 10% of the cost of the building.

Me me me! We are in charge!
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The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

Last edited by Beerina; 19th September 2014 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 19th September 2014, 10:17 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Ya, hard to believe.

If only someone had a simple theory which predicted this over and over and over again, successfully.

Going from a corruption-based dictatorship to another corruption-based dictatorship, neither of which secures private rigjts to pursue business without massive kickbacks, grinding things to a halt, solves just what again?

This time it's ***my*** cronies who get to run the building approval departments, demanding 10% of the cost of the building.

Me me me! We are in charge!
Um...look over there, CIA plot!
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Old 13th November 2014, 10:59 PM   #259
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Venezuela cracks down on peddling diapers: ‘I feel like a drug dealer’

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CARACAS, Venezuela — The sprawling street market that radiates outward from the metro station in Petare, Caracas’s largest slum, is the retail equivalent of an anti-Target.

There’s no organization to it. Tube socks and school supplies are sold beside giant pyramids of pineapple and piled yucca. Leopard-print hot pants stretch over mannequin buttocks next to the stinky stalls of fishmongers.

The bazaar was known until this month as one of the city’s biggest open-air black markets, the place to find all the scarce items that shoppers must queue up for hours to get in supermarkets, or can’t find at all. Earlier this year, toilet paper and corn*meal were scarce; lately it’s diapers and deodorant that have “gotten lost,” as Venezuelans say.

Authorities mostly turned a blind eye to the informal commerce, but late last month Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro went on TV to decree a ban on street sales of coffee, eggs, shampoo and some 50 other “regulated” items whose prices* are capped by the government. He ordered the National Guard to police market stalls for such items as mayonnaise and powdered milk, and threatened to prosecute recidivist violators.

The crackdown is tricky for Maduro. In Petare and elsewhere, it risks alienating some of the poor Venezuelans who had long been loyal to Maduro’s predecessor, the late Hugo Chávez, but are increasingly unhappy with his understudy.
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Old 14th November 2014, 01:02 AM   #260
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Socialist utopia (Venezuela) = rolling blackouts.

Capitalist utopia (Enron) = rolling blackouts.

There's a pattern here.
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Old 14th November 2014, 08:53 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
That aside, your point is entirely valid: the majority of countries with vast oil wealth did in fact become hellholes.

McHrozni
Became hellholes, or just didn't ever progress out of hellhole stage?

(Presumably Norway was first world and then developed their oil reserves)

A lot of countries just use their unearned wealth to ignore the need for reform and modernization (perhaps similar to how 16th century Spain used the wealth of the Americas in order to continue inefficient policies and cover a lack of economic development).
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Old 14th November 2014, 09:24 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by epepke View Post
Socialist utopia (Venezuela) = rolling blackouts.

Capitalist utopia (Enron) = rolling blackouts.

There's a pattern here.
Nothing capitalist about a monopoly. Let me know when there's a shortage of diapers and eggs in California.
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Old 14th November 2014, 10:43 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by epepke View Post
Socialist utopia (Venezuela) = rolling blackouts.

Capitalist utopia (Enron) = rolling blackouts.

There's a pattern here.
Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Nothing capitalist about a monopoly. Let me know when there's a shortage of diapers and eggs in California.
And of course Enron did get shut down when it was discovered what was going on there. It's not that people don't do bad things in a capitalist society, it's that there's more mechanisms to stop them when they do. Not so many rolling blackouts in the US lately last I heard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal

Quote:
Many executives at Enron were indicted for a variety of charges and some were later sentenced to prison. Enron's auditor, Arthur Andersen, was found guilty in a United States District Court of illegally destroying documents relevant to the SEC investigation which voided its license to audit public companies, effectively closing the business.
The fact that Enron went bankrupt and some of its executives went to prison kinda says to me that the system worked in the end.
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Old 14th November 2014, 10:48 AM   #264
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Old 16th November 2014, 12:10 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
And of course Enron did get shut down when it was discovered what was going on there. It's not that people don't do bad things in a capitalist society, it's that there's more mechanisms to stop them when they do. Not so many rolling blackouts in the US lately last I heard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal



The fact that Enron went bankrupt and some of its executives went to prison kinda says to me that the system worked in the end.
Actually Arthur Anderson's conviction was overturned by the SCOTUS under appeal, a Pyrrhic victory though since the company was still toast.
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Old 17th November 2014, 12:10 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Became hellholes, or just didn't ever progress out of hellhole stage?
That's indeed a bit questionable.

Look at Venezuela though. They did have a small, but existing non-oil export sector, a functioning and growing tourist industry, a flawed democracy that wasn't all that horrible, and were advancing on these fronts quite well until mid 1970s or so. That's when the oil populism kicked in, with Chavizmo turning it into an art form. Now they have practically no non-oil exports, no tourism and a nasty dictatorship. They even managed to get the murder rate up by a factor of 4 or 5. Certainly Venezuela wasn't a hellhole 40 years ago, but it now fits the profile rather well. If not wait until after the next year's election, when the adjustment will really bite. The shortages, lack of growth and inflation they have today is just gentle nibbling before the T-Rex bites.

Quote:
A lot of countries just use their unearned wealth to ignore the need for reform and modernization (perhaps similar to how 16th century Spain used the wealth of the Americas in order to continue inefficient policies and cover a lack of economic development).
True. Resource curse is a nasty thing.

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Old 17th November 2014, 08:31 PM   #267
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See the debt Mexico racked up in the 60's and 70's as the oil boom for them grew, and then in about 1982 they became the pivot point of the international oil/finance system getting a pretty big scare. Lopez-Portillo nearly took us all down with him.

In typical Mexican fashion -- hell, in typical Latin American political fashion -- they didn't learn a darned thing, and so ten years later Bill Clinton spent 50 billion or so to bail those idiots out.

Enabling behavior won't solve the disease. It is my belief that Venezuela suffers from the same disease as Mexico. Like Mexico, they were once a major petrol player in the global market.
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Old 28th November 2014, 01:06 AM   #268
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Bsf collapsed this month. It went from 88-ish to almost 138 to the dollar with three days to go. It could easily reach 200 before the year ends, especially since we'll see even lower oil prices for at least a few more months. I suspect oil prices will remain subdued at least until a nuclear deal with Iran is reached, the deadline for that is another 7 months.

I'm already stocking up on popcorn for the next years' elections - the last chance for a peaceful transition to democracy Venezuela has in a generation.

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Old 29th November 2014, 08:45 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Bsf collapsed this month. It went from 88-ish to almost 138 to the dollar with three days to go. It could easily reach 200 before the year ends, especially since we'll see even lower oil prices for at least a few more months. I suspect oil prices will remain subdued at least until a nuclear deal with Iran is reached, the deadline for that is another 7 months.

I'm already stocking up on popcorn for the next years' elections - the last chance for a peaceful transition to democracy Venezuela has in a generation.
Update: it's over 150 to the dollar today. It could be I was too optimistic yesterday.

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Old 30th November 2014, 02:35 PM   #270
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Damn, missed a shot at making a bit of cash on currency moves.
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Old 2nd December 2014, 10:05 AM   #271
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Don't sell your eggs for more than we permit -- we wouldn't want that to lead to more egg production as free people sought to meet a need.
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The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
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Old 7th December 2014, 04:01 AM   #272
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Damn, missed a shot at making a bit of cash on currency moves.
It's at 173 to the dollar now. You probably have a few more shots at it left.
http://dólarparalelo.com/images/grafica.gif

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Old 8th December 2014, 03:06 PM   #273
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These stories of the dangers of putting all you economic eggs into an oil basket need to be heeded by the Scottish Nationalist Party, which seems to be pretty much planning to do just that.
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Old 6th February 2015, 03:34 AM   #274
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Good news everyone!
President Maduro has figured out who is to blame for all the shortages in Venezualia!

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...50205?irpc=932
http://m.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-31159622

Sorry for the mobile links.
Synopsis:
Maduro is arresting the owners of businesses and seizing their businesses because he blames the business owners for causing the shortages in order to make the government look bad.
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Old 6th February 2015, 05:23 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Maduro is arresting the owners of businesses and seizing their businesses because he blames the business owners for causing the shortages in order to make the government look bad.
What's the charge? Doing El Presidente's job for him?
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Old 6th February 2015, 05:01 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Good news everyone!
President Maduro has figured out who is to blame for all the shortages in Venezualia!

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...50205?irpc=932
http://m.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-31159622

Sorry for the mobile links.
Synopsis:
Maduro is arresting the owners of businesses and seizing their businesses because he blames the business owners for causing the shortages in order to make the government look bad.
That's sure to spur businesses to invest in Venezuela!
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Old 6th February 2015, 05:26 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Good news everyone!
President Maduro has figured out who is to blame for all the shortages in Venezualia!

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...50205?irpc=932
http://m.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-31159622

Sorry for the mobile links.
Synopsis:
Maduro is arresting the owners of businesses and seizing their businesses because he blames the business owners for causing the shortages in order to make the government look bad.
Scapegoating 101.
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Old 6th February 2015, 06:19 PM   #278
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How to destroy your own tax base, 101.
Sad.
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Old 7th February 2015, 08:06 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
How to destroy your own tax base, 101.
Sad.
The important thing is to keep the Bolivarian Revolution going!

Where are the usual apologists with their Venezuela Analysis links showing that everything is peachy king down there?
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Old 8th February 2015, 03:26 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Where are the usual apologists with their Venezuela Analysis links showing that everything is peachy king down there?
Busy collecting RT and PressTV links for their Syrian and Ukrainian "analysis".
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