ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 15th November 2014, 01:00 PM   #81
Dissolution
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,306
Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
I hope that the poor guy got well taken care of after the fight.
Preferably by a faith healer.
Dissolution is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2014, 03:52 PM   #82
Silly Green Monkey
Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness
 
Silly Green Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,184
Originally Posted by Son of Inigo View Post
In regards to the "slain by the spirit" shtick, I have experienced similar things like that first hand. I was raised in a non-denominational, charismatic, fundamentalist, bible church. By raised, I mean church on Sunday mornings, elder meetings Sunday afternoon, and Sunday and Wednesday nights. Can't forget about all the youth group activities and Sunday school stuff. Oh, and I went to the ACE accredited school attached to the church. I pretty much lived there.
It has been a long hard climb out of that place. Even after 30 years, it is hard to buck an upbringing like that.
I'd ask if you went to the same place I did, but I swear that was only twenty years ago. And I'm not sure the school was accredited by anyone....
__________________
Normal is just a stereotype.
Silly Green Monkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2014, 07:01 PM   #83
The Norseman
Meandering fecklessly
 
The Norseman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,858
Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
I'd ask if you went to the same place I did, but I swear that was only twenty years ago. And I'm not sure the school was accredited by anyone....
Jesus. I betcha it was accredited by Jesus.
The Norseman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2014, 07:46 AM   #84
RockNroll
Muse
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 791
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
There's no doubt that this video looks a bit like magic.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


I can't tell whether I'm watching a bunch of play-acting, the results of the art of suggestion/near hypnosis, or such a skilled Tai Chi user that real moves look unreal.
That's definitely play acting. I've seen quite a bit of competitive pushing-hands between non-cooperative opponents (and done some myself, intended as a sensitivity exercise of sorts while warming up for the actual sparring to come), and it looks nothing like that.
When done for real, you can clearly see leverage being applied, in a way that doesn't look like a violation of the laws of physics
__________________
Never eat more than you can lift
-Miss Piggy
RockNroll is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2014, 08:51 AM   #85
Porpoise of Life
Illuminator
 
Porpoise of Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,056
I read the title as 'no touch marital art' at first, which would be an even more impressive feat.
Porpoise of Life is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2014, 10:48 AM   #86
Madalch
The Jester
 
Madalch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,744
Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
I read the title as 'no touch marital art' at first, which would be an even more impressive feat.
Are you kidding? That describes the majority of my married life.

"Go to sleep. Don't touch me."
__________________
As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of resolving approaches zero. -Vaarsuvius
It's a rum state of affairs when you feel like punching a jar of mayonnaise in the face. -Charlie Brooker
Madalch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2014, 12:18 PM   #87
cosmicaug
Muse
 
cosmicaug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 947
Originally Posted by RockNroll View Post
That's definitely play acting. I've seen quite a bit of competitive pushing-hands between non-cooperative opponents (and done some myself, intended as a sensitivity exercise of sorts while warming up for the actual sparring to come), and it looks nothing like that.
When done for real, you can clearly see leverage being applied, in a way that doesn't look like a violation of the laws of physics
Indeed, the fact that actual touching is involved does not necessarily exclude something from being high grade bullshido. What I have seen of pressure point techniques (mostly in a workshop taught by someone who, IIRC, claimed some sort of lineage or mutual influence from George Dillman) seems to clearly be bullshido to me.
__________________
--
August Pamplona
cosmicaug is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2014, 01:04 PM   #88
Son of Inigo
Thinker
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 204
S.G.M.

Mine was in Montana, and if you did go there, then we know each other, or know of each other.

Looks like I have meet a fellow traveler. Good luck in your journey as well.
Son of Inigo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2014, 02:01 PM   #89
cosmicaug
Muse
 
cosmicaug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 947
Originally Posted by Nakani View Post
I think xterra is referring to the other video of the Kia master vs. MMA fighter.
Never mind, then! I can possibly be of help with English (which is unlikely to be of much help in an English language forum) and with Spanish but not at all with Japanese
__________________
--
August Pamplona
cosmicaug is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2014, 10:26 PM   #90
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,038
Originally Posted by Dinwar View Post
Not true. European martial arts continue to be displayed--it's called "fencing".
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Also "boxing" and "wrestling".
I meant that it stopped being practiced in a military context. It became a game - at best, a sport. It ceased to be a method to defend one's life. Asian martial arts continued to be used for that purpose - how successfully is a matter of opinion.

Originally Posted by Dinwar View Post
There's also a revival of European martial arts...
I think you know I know that...

Like I said, it was pure speculation on my part. And I'm speaking generally - I know that duels continued to be fought into the 18th and 19th centuries. Don't spoil a good speculation.
__________________
Read my fantasy novel for free!

Last edited by arthwollipot; 17th November 2014 at 10:27 PM.
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th November 2014, 12:57 PM   #91
xterra
So far, so good...
 
xterra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: On the outskirts of Nowhere; the middle was too crowded
Posts: 2,564
Originally Posted by Nakani View Post
I think xterra is referring to the other video of the Kia master vs. MMA fighter.

Yes, that is the one I meant. Still interested in an English transcription of the commentary, if anyone can provide it -- even only the last part, after the Kia master is on the ground.

Originally Posted by Madalch View Post
Are you kidding? That describes the majority of my married life.

"Go to sleep. Don't touch me."

Madalch, you should not treat your spouse that way.
__________________
Over we go....

Last edited by xterra; 18th November 2014 at 12:58 PM.
xterra is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th June 2015, 09:32 AM   #92
cosmicaug
Muse
 
cosmicaug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 947
So Cameron is still at it. I found this video through a post on Facebook. I had some trouble recognizing him due to aging as the video on Facebook was actually a shorter excerpt which did not identify him. Bullshido cranked up to 11:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
--
August Pamplona
cosmicaug is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th June 2015, 05:13 PM   #93
Prometheus
Acolyte of Víđarr
 
Prometheus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 48,175
Wow, that's sad.
__________________
As Einstein once said, "If you can't think of something relevant to say, just make something up and attribute it to some really smart dead guy."
"I find your lack of pith disturbing," - Darth Rotor
..........
Don't be offended. I'm not calling you a serial killer. -- Ron Tomkins.
Prometheus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th June 2015, 05:40 PM   #94
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 25,926
Profoundly sad.
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2015, 08:56 AM   #95
Biscuit
Philosopher
 
Biscuit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,926
Not even mildly convincing or entertaining. Delusional.
__________________
“... there is no shame in not knowing. The problem arises when irrational thought and attendant behavior fill the vacuum left by ignorance.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
Biscuit is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2015, 09:19 AM   #96
Wudang
BOFH
 
Wudang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 10,717
Skip to about 1:47
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke
Wudang is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2015, 09:24 AM   #97
Donn
Philosopher
 
Donn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In my head.
Posts: 7,492
Ho me! And that girth! Very art, such belt.
__________________
"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett
"If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans
"I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat
Donn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2015, 09:28 AM   #98
Wudang
BOFH
 
Wudang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 10,717
And more of the same:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


The tall thin student looks like a guy I saw train with him years ago and was all shiney-eyed puppy when Peter Young did anything
__________________
Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke
Wudang is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2015, 12:13 PM   #99
cosmicaug
Muse
 
cosmicaug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 947
Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
And more of the same:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


The tall thin student looks like a guy I saw train with him years ago and was all shiney-eyed puppy when Peter Young did anything
Ah, Dondrup Dorje! I've seen this particular video and others before but had completely forgotten about it. I don't think I had specifically seen the one you linked to before but I had seen others. I did, however, recognize the tall guy and knew it was a group that I had seen before in other YouTube videos (though I did not remember that the name of the cult is the Pathway Institute nor that the teacher calls himself Dondrup Dorje).

The tall guy clearly is the most theatrical of all (though all give equally absurd performances --maybe it's just about having longer limbs?). He is clearly #1 student.

Here's another one:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


I love the note at the end of that video about the old lady with the back pain. Somehow, the fact that the Dondrup Dorje got a bunch of grown men to leap theatrically in front of the old lady is supposed to prove what, exactly?


By the way, the red shirts tell me that none of the students could be a Star Trek fan!
__________________
--
August Pamplona
cosmicaug is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2015, 04:04 PM   #100
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 13,426
What is it with the hopping? It doesn't imitate the result of real physical forces and it certainly doesn't look like anything seen in real martial arts (unless one puts a lit match between someone's toes). If any actor in a movie stunt tried to move in that way to imitate a blow or push, they would rapidly be taken aside and told to cool it down 11 notches.

I presume that this bunny hopping not only convinces the "Master" but also looks to the organization as a whole to be convincing and worth including in a youtube video.

Interesting question as to if the Master knows the truth or not, and what the students are thinking as they mime through the routine.
Giordano is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2015, 04:43 PM   #101
steve s
Philosopher
 
steve s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,865
Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
And more of the same:

Notice that when they're on grass, the guy falls to the ground a few times. But when they're in the gym on a hard floor, he's not nearly as animated.

Steve S
__________________
"Nature abhors a moron." -- H. L. Mencken
steve s is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2015, 04:48 PM   #102
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 13,426
Originally Posted by steve s View Post
Notice that when they're on grass, the guy falls to the ground a few times. But when they're in the gym on a hard floor, he's not nearly as animated.

Steve S
Hard floors dissipate chi energy more rapidly than does grass.
Giordano is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2015, 04:49 PM   #103
Prometheus
Acolyte of Víđarr
 
Prometheus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 48,175
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
What is it with the hopping? It doesn't imitate the result of real physical forces and it certainly doesn't look like anything seen in real martial arts (unless one puts a lit match between someone's toes). If any actor in a movie stunt tried to move in that way to imitate a blow or push, they would rapidly be taken aside and told to cool it down 11 notches.

I presume that this bunny hopping not only convinces the "Master" but also looks to the organization as a whole to be convincing and worth including in a youtube video.

Interesting question as to if the Master knows the truth or not, and what the students are thinking as they mime through the routine.
I imagine it's much the same as goes on in the minds of audience members influenced to perform prescribed actions by stage hypnotists.
__________________
As Einstein once said, "If you can't think of something relevant to say, just make something up and attribute it to some really smart dead guy."
"I find your lack of pith disturbing," - Darth Rotor
..........
Don't be offended. I'm not calling you a serial killer. -- Ron Tomkins.
Prometheus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2015, 05:30 PM   #104
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,067
I've used "chi" energy to take the strength out of my victims arm before. Then I tell them it's all a stupid trick and I just pushed harder. Sadly, only most of them believe that I tricked them. The rare idiot that thinks it wasn't a trick believes that I'm the one that is foolish enough to not understand that I have real powers.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2015, 07:22 PM   #105
cosmicaug
Muse
 
cosmicaug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 947
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I've used "chi" energy to take the strength out of my victims arm before. Then I tell them it's all a stupid trick and I just pushed harder. Sadly, only most of them believe that I tricked them. The rare idiot that thinks it wasn't a trick believes that I'm the one that is foolish enough to not understand that I have real powers.
Oh Bob! In my 9th grade science class the teacher was clueless. I think it was one of those situations where administration must have told her "we need a science teacher and you are it". Did I mention this was 9th grade science? Anyway, so it's science class and she calls this kid in front of the class and tells him to stand with his arms at his sides raised so they are parallel to the floor. I think you know where this is going...

Did I mention this high school teacher was supposed to be teaching us science? You know, like the school district was paying her real money to instruct students in various subjects and one of the subjects she was being paid to teach, in particular the one she was supposed to be teaching in that class, was science.

So yeah, she says that she is going to try to pull the kid's arm down (as I recall, she made sure to pick one of the bigger kids) and instructs him to resist. Of course, predictably, she can't pull his arm down.

Then she passed her hand in front of the kid with a vertical motion and tried again, this time succeeding in pulling his arm down. At that point she proceeded to explain to the class that the reason she was able to pull down the kid's arm on the second try was because she had broken his "force lines" (you know, with the magical pass she did with her hands) . I'm pretty sure she did not take that lesson from any science book so I have no idea what made her put up that demonstration.

I was soooo pissed that we had someone claiming to be teaching science doing such a demonstration! I have no idea if I said something because this was so long ago (I suspect some posters to this thread hadn't been born yet). I know that I certainly did not keep my moth shut about every stupid thing that she said or did.
__________________
--
August Pamplona
cosmicaug is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2015, 07:54 PM   #106
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,067
That is the trick I do. It is so stupid. I use it to demonstrate gullibility.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th June 2015, 12:50 AM   #107
Wudang
BOFH
 
Wudang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 10,717
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Hard floors dissipate chi energy more rapidly than does grass.
That probably also explains why his students always suck at push hands and such. We should probably hold the contests in leafy glades instead of sports halls.
__________________
Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke
Wudang is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th June 2015, 01:41 AM   #108
PursuedByABear
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 110
I once had to stand in a line with my hands on the shoulders of the person in front etc while a martial arts guy"who knew he was ********ting" made a push in the air ten feet in front of us. I had to physically manhandle the guy in front of me to stop him trying to throw himself backwards on me. Had I not been bigger than him the line would certainly have staggered as a whole.

It's the whole basis of stage hypnosis/mental magic. You don't honestly need stooges. Just start with a group of 10 or so people and you will be unlucky if there won't be one or two there who will simply fake the effects for attention. All you need do then is concentrate on them.
PursuedByABear is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th June 2015, 03:08 AM   #109
Wudang
BOFH
 
Wudang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 10,717
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
There's no doubt that this video looks a bit like magic.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


I can't tell whether I'm watching a bunch of play-acting, the results of the art of suggestion/near hypnosis, or such a skilled Tai Chi user that real moves look unreal.
I know Huang Sheng Shyan by reputation from Malaysian friends at Uni. He did have quite some skill from what I heard and I learned the "weight jin" from a student of a student and it really boosted my jujitsu locks.
This video is classic Asian "show respect for the old master". It would be considered very bad form not to fall as required. It's one reason the old masters will do these demos but they have a senior student who accepts challenges on his behalf. The few I've heard of who maintained fighting ability into later years were also renowned for their personal training regimes. You get out what you put in.
__________________
Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke
Wudang is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th June 2015, 07:12 AM   #110
cosmicaug
Muse
 
cosmicaug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 947
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
That is the trick I do. It is so stupid. I use it to demonstrate gullibility.
OMG, are you my 9th grade science teacher?
__________________
--
August Pamplona
cosmicaug is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th June 2015, 07:14 AM   #111
cosmicaug
Muse
 
cosmicaug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 947
Originally Posted by PursuedByABear View Post
I once had to stand in a line with my hands on the shoulders of the person in front etc while a martial arts guy"who knew he was ********ting" made a push in the air ten feet in front of us. I had to physically manhandle the guy in front of me to stop him trying to throw himself backwards on me. Had I not been bigger than him the line would certainly have staggered as a whole.

It's the whole basis of stage hypnosis/mental magic. You don't honestly need stooges. Just start with a group of 10 or so people and you will be unlucky if there won't be one or two there who will simply fake the effects for attention. All you need do then is concentrate on them.
Yup, you definitely would want to have your best students at the front of that line.
__________________
--
August Pamplona
cosmicaug is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th June 2015, 07:16 AM   #112
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,067
Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
OMG, are you my 9th grade science teacher?
Yes, yes I am and I need some financial help. If I give you my paypal information, will you send me the $5K I need to fund my mission to mars rocket?
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th June 2015, 07:28 AM   #113
Donn
Philosopher
 
Donn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In my head.
Posts: 7,492
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
What is it with the hopping?
I noticed, in a few vids, that the red-shirt/skirt crowd are the ones who really hop - like springbok. It must be a style of a school. They learn to "succumb to the force" by bias and imitation, but when you contrast different styles it really shows that no external force is at work; it's all themselves.
__________________
"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett
"If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans
"I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat
Donn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th June 2015, 08:46 AM   #114
cosmicaug
Muse
 
cosmicaug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 947
Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
I know Huang Sheng Shyan by reputation from Malaysian friends at Uni. He did have quite some skill from what I heard and I learned the "weight jin" from a student of a student and it really boosted my jujitsu locks.
This video is classic Asian "show respect for the old master". It would be considered very bad form not to fall as required. It's one reason the old masters will do these demos but they have a senior student who accepts challenges on his behalf. The few I've heard of who maintained fighting ability into later years were also renowned for their personal training regimes. You get out what you put in.
I had to google Huang Sheng Shyan. From that search I found a wikipedia page of Huang Sheng ShyanWP.

It states:
Quote:
At the age of 60 Huang Sheng Shyan again demonstrated his abilities in taijiquan by defeating Liao Kuang-Cheng, the Asian champion wrestler 26 throws to 0 in a fund raising event in Kuching Malaysia.
Surprisingly, there are video excerpts of that on YouTube:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


It's truly farcical. I guess the fact that it's a fund raising event means that it must really be a demo or maybe a pro-wrestling type event: Huang Sheng Shyan has one role to play the wrestler guy as another role.

The worst is at 2:35. Watch it at 0.25x speed. The wrestler is either at the ropes at one end or fairly close to them while Huang Sheng Shyan is on the other half of the ring (narrow way) and then the wrestler simply launches himself at the floor. Even if Huang Sheng Shyan could reach him (which he obviously can't since in a generous estimate they are no less than 6 feet away) it's fairly clear from what you can see that Huang Sheng Shyan has his arms by his body the whole time.


And here's one of those parlor tricks by Huang Sheng Shyan with the shooting chi through a bunch of people:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
--
August Pamplona
cosmicaug is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th June 2015, 09:03 AM   #115
Mike!
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
 
Mike!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 26,367
Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
Oh Bob! In my 9th grade science class the teacher was clueless. I think it was one of those situations where administration must have told her "we need a science teacher and you are it". Did I mention this was 9th grade science? Anyway, so it's science class and she calls this kid in front of the class and tells him to stand with his arms at his sides raised so they are parallel to the floor. I think you know where this is going...

Did I mention this high school teacher was supposed to be teaching us science? You know, like the school district was paying her real money to instruct students in various subjects and one of the subjects she was being paid to teach, in particular the one she was supposed to be teaching in that class, was science.

So yeah, she says that she is going to try to pull the kid's arm down (as I recall, she made sure to pick one of the bigger kids) and instructs him to resist. Of course, predictably, she can't pull his arm down.

Then she passed her hand in front of the kid with a vertical motion and tried again, this time succeeding in pulling his arm down. At that point she proceeded to explain to the class that the reason she was able to pull down the kid's arm on the second try was because she had broken his "force lines" (you know, with the magical pass she did with her hands) . I'm pretty sure she did not take that lesson from any science book so I have no idea what made her put up that demonstration.

I was soooo pissed that we had someone claiming to be teaching science doing such a demonstration! I have no idea if I said something because this was so long ago (I suspect some posters to this thread hadn't been born yet). I know that I certainly did not keep my moth shut about every stupid thing that she said or did.
How do you know, for sure, she wasn't some sort of evil Jedi Sith Lord? Can you prove she wasn't?
__________________
"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes...
Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."
Mike! is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th June 2015, 11:44 AM   #116
Donn
Philosopher
 
Donn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In my head.
Posts: 7,492
I reckon the lack of a large blue screen tied to her back would rule that out.
__________________
"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett
"If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans
"I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat
Donn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th June 2015, 12:27 PM   #117
Wudang
BOFH
 
Wudang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 10,717
Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
I had to google Huang Sheng Shyan. From that search I found a wikipedia page of Huang Sheng ShyanWP.

It states:


Surprisingly, there are video excerpts of that on YouTube:


It's truly farcical. I guess the fact that it's a fund raising event means that it must really be a demo or maybe a pro-wrestling type event: Huang Sheng Shyan has one role to play the wrestler guy as another role.

The worst is at 2:35. Watch it at 0.25x speed. The wrestler is either at the ropes at one end or fairly close to them while Huang Sheng Shyan is on the other half of the ring (narrow way) and then the wrestler simply launches himself at the floor. Even if Huang Sheng Shyan could reach him (which he obviously can't since in a generous estimate they are no less than 6 feet away) it's fairly clear from what you can see that Huang Sheng Shyan has his arms by his body the whole time.


And here's one of those parlor tricks by Huang Sheng Shyan with the shooting chi through a bunch of people:
Yeesh.
__________________
Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke
Wudang is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th June 2015, 12:49 PM   #118
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 15,353
Originally Posted by PursuedByABear View Post
I once had to stand in a line with my hands on the shoulders of the person in front etc while a martial arts guy"who knew he was ********ting" made a push in the air ten feet in front of us. I had to physically manhandle the guy in front of me to stop him trying to throw himself backwards on me. Had I not been bigger than him the line would certainly have staggered as a whole.

It's the whole basis of stage hypnosis/mental magic. You don't honestly need stooges. Just start with a group of 10 or so people and you will be unlucky if there won't be one or two there who will simply fake the effects for attention. All you need do then is concentrate on them.
Is it just attention seeking, or is it suggestible people being eager to please too? I suspect the latter for some of the "slain in the spirit" thing, and possibly for some stage tricks.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th June 2015, 01:00 PM   #119
Wudang
BOFH
 
Wudang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 10,717
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Is it just attention seeking, or is it suggestible people being eager to please too? I suspect the latter for some of the "slain in the spirit" thing, and possibly for some stage tricks.
I suspect a number of reasons. Some people just seem desperate to believe in something, especially if it marks them as special. Some people just acting the way they think they're supposed to. And don't underestimate social effects : google Solomon Asch for example
__________________
Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke
Wudang is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th June 2015, 01:03 PM   #120
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 15,353
Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
I suspect a number of reasons. Some people just seem desperate to believe in something, especially if it marks them as special. Some people just acting the way they think they're supposed to. And don't underestimate social effects : google Solomon Asch for example
I just did after posting that and seeing your earlier post suggesting that. (Thank you)

This pretty much describes what I was thinking:

Quote:
Asch told his colleagues that his idea to study conformity was brought about by his childhood experiences in Poland. He recalls being seven years old and staying up for his first Passover night. He recalls seeing his grandmother pour an extra glass of wine. When he asked who the glass of wine was for, she said that it was for the prophet Elijah. He then asked her whether he would really take a sip from the glass and his uncle assured him that he would. His uncle told him to watch very closely when the time came. "Filled with a sense of suggestion and expectation" Asch "thought he saw the level of wine in the cup drop just a bit".[12] Thus, early in life, Asch succumbed to conformity, which fostered his idea to investigate conformity later in life.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:21 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.