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Old 16th September 2015, 09:09 AM   #41
Jrrarglblarg
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http://www.dallasnews.com/news/commu...-to-school.ece

Quote:
He’s vowed never to take an invention to school again.
A bit of the future just died.

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Old 16th September 2015, 09:14 AM   #42
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Maybe it's time to end the war on nerds...
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Old 16th September 2015, 09:18 AM   #43
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Stupid people always feel threatened by smart people!
Perhaps it's that the smart kid is more capable, and will succeed better than them that makes them feel insecure and frightened.

Better to just make the smart kid 'disappear', then everyone can breath a sigh of relief and go about their small, petty little lives, unencumbered by such un-godly inconveniences like knowledge, intelligence, capability etc
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Old 16th September 2015, 09:20 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
An interview with the "suspect."
http://www.latimes.com/visuals/video...ddedvideo.html

Yep, I wanna buy him a soldering station. Anyone here with crowd funding experience? Seriously.
As he managed to build the clock, I suspect he already has one
How about a nice digital oscilloscope?
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Old 16th September 2015, 09:25 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by beelzebub View Post
As he managed to build the clock, I suspect he already has one
How about a nice digital oscilloscope?
Road flares always make a good gift.
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Old 16th September 2015, 09:34 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
I think we should launch a kickstarter to buy him a breadboard and digital temp control soldering iron.
Adafruit (supplier of electronic kits among other things) has offered to send him some stuff if he can contact them.
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Old 16th September 2015, 09:37 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Hawk one View Post
Well, what else can you expect from a town who makes an anti-muslim campaign based on a completely made up chain e-mail?
Wow. I change my statement. They definitely know this kid, but not in the way I was thinking. They've obviously had him on watch since he's been at that school. They've probably been just waiting for the chance to get him on something like this. His family should get him as far away from there as they can. It's mind-numbing to hear these fundies and teabaggers complain that some other group of people is doing the very thing they are all trying to do themselves.
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Old 16th September 2015, 09:49 AM   #48
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Quote:
They led Ahmed into a room where four other police officers waited. He said an officer he’d never seen before leaned back in his chair and remarked: “Yup. That’s who I thought it was.”
Quote:
“They were like, ‘So you tried to make a bomb?’” Ahmed said.

“I told them no, I was trying to make a clock.”

“He said, ‘It looks like a movie bomb to me.’”
And there's the passive aggressive response.


http://www.dallasnews.com/news/commu...-to-school.ece

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Old 16th September 2015, 09:56 AM   #49
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Ugh.

What would it take to get the rest of the Union to secede from Texas?
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Old 16th September 2015, 10:05 AM   #50
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"Ah, yes, Police? I've noticed that there is a bomb shaped object hanging from the walls of every single classroom in this school. Yea, and they're counting towards something."
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Old 16th September 2015, 10:19 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by beelzebub View Post
As he managed to build the clock, I suspect he already has one
How about a nice digital oscilloscope?
His iron is a piece of crap. I wouldn't use it to melt "bullet holes" in a model tank.

But a 'scope is good too.

Okay:
Weller soldering station, about 150
Breadboard, about 20
O'scope, 100ish for a compact digital or used eBay analog

500 bucks to equip his bench? I know literally nothing about getting this started.
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Old 16th September 2015, 10:21 AM   #52
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http://www.vox.com/2015/9/16/9336557...d-clock-school
The form letter the school sent to the boy's family sure reads strange. A "one size fits all fill in the blank" piece of stupid.

The police are looking rather foolish in the media so far.

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Old 16th September 2015, 10:21 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Ugh.

What would it take to get the rest of the Union to secede from Texas?
I say we let Mexico have it. As an apology for taking the southwest from them, if that's what it takes to get them to accept it.
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Old 16th September 2015, 10:24 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
The Dallas news reports that this 14 year old brought a clock he made to school to show his science teacher, who's advice to him was "don't show it to anyone else." And he didn't, until the alarm went off in English class.
One might think someone would have noticed that there wasn't an explosion when the alarm went off, which should have been a bit of a giveaway.

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Old 16th September 2015, 10:27 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by BowlOfRed View Post
Adafruit (supplier of electronic kits among other things) has offered to send him some stuff if he can contact them.
For that matter, he also got a White House invitation from the president. He'll be fine.

Still annoyed by this, though.
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Old 16th September 2015, 10:32 AM   #56
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More people in America have been killed by fellow Americans with guns than by terrorists in the years since 9/11 I read somewhere recently. The paranoia that oozes out of the country, isolated and cocooned as it is from some of the threats many of the rest of us seem to be under is sometimes puzzling.
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Old 16th September 2015, 10:34 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Rum View Post
More people in America have been killed by fellow Americans with guns than by terrorists in the years since 9/11 I read somewhere recently. The paranoia that oozes out of the country, isolated and cocooned as it is from some of the threats many of the rest of us seem to be under is sometimes puzzling.
Paranoia is probably a natural partner to narcissism.
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Old 16th September 2015, 10:40 AM   #58
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The "bomb"

http://twitter.com/RobertWilonsky/st...593600/photo/1
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Old 16th September 2015, 10:41 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
An aesthetically potent genetic combination. I recommend a stout length of hickory for her dad to chase the boys away in a few years.
You ain't kidding. I still remember a flame from the days of my youth. Hair color matched skin color. She answered to "Tawney"- to LOTS of guys.
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Old 16th September 2015, 10:45 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Carnivore View Post
The officers say it looked like a fake bomb to them? Presumably because a real bomb would not involve a digital clock? I'm not sure how to feel about this. A lot depends on what he was actually trying to achieve with the clock and what explanation he offered teachers / police. The school are saying it was in a briefcase and began making a noise when plugged into a wall. The police are saying Ahmed was passive aggressive and not giving any clear reason as to why he had it. His family are saying he was racially profiled.

Frankly it's not clear at the moment exactly what happened. Maybe Ahmed's completely innocent project was over reacted to by staff who just wouldn't listen to his perfectly reasonable explanation. Maybe he was angered by an unexpected reaction to his project and reacted in a way that seemed unreasonable to staff and police. More information required.
I kind of agree with this. Seems the most rational approach than all the screaming meemees flipping out like there wasn't a reason to be concerned.

I think the kid was probably passive aggressive and I kind of wonder if he didn't bring it to school on purpose just to cause a scene.

Regardless the handcuffs are ridiculous and over kill.


As the mom of a Muslim Arab son who is also interested in Engineering I can tell the kid was interested, my kid had a room filled with things like that.

But several questions.

A. Why bring it to school in a little suitcase like that?

B. Why bring it to school at all?

C. Why did the engineering teacher tell him not to show it to the other teachers. The teacher should have stepped in right then, not told him to be sneaky about it. It probably contributed to him keeping his mouth shut instead of coming forward about it if his favorite teacher said that to him.

D. What part of Zero tolerance don't parents understand. It's zero tolerance for a reason. While I agree the arrest and hand cuffs were over the top, the suspension isn't. It's not the worst thing in the world to get suspended from school. Parents need to get over it.

Last edited by truethat; 16th September 2015 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 16th September 2015, 10:48 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Rum View Post
More people in America have been killed by fellow Americans with guns than by terrorists in the years since 9/11 I read somewhere recently. The paranoia that oozes out of the country, isolated and cocooned as it is from some of the threats many of the rest of us seem to be under is sometimes puzzling.
But what about terrorists using guns? Of course most of those are right wing so they get ignored.
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Old 16th September 2015, 10:57 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by beelzebub View Post
Stupid people always feel threatened by smart people!
Perhaps it's that the smart kid is more capable, and will succeed better than them that makes them feel insecure and frightened.

Better to just make the smart kid 'disappear', then everyone can breath a sigh of relief and go about their small, petty little lives, unencumbered by such un-godly inconveniences like knowledge, intelligence, capability etc
Hilited my thought while reading the thread. Lots of stupid people in this school and police force.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:04 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
But several questions.

A. Why bring it to school in a little suitcase like that?
it's called an enclosure. It keeps the project safe from damage. if we still had RadioShack he might have used a black plastic case. I have a Batman lunch box with banana plugs on the side and 3 tall-D Cyclons inside; I use it as a power supply for random breadboard things.
Quote:
B. Why bring it to school at all?
to show it to the Science, Technology Engineering and Math (STEM) teacher. He made something cool and wanted to show it off. Adult approval of creative activities is important.
Quote:
C. Why did the engineering teacher tell him not to show it to the other teachers.
because he knows people are stupid?

Quote:
The teacher should have stepped in right then, not told him to be sneaky about it. It probably contributed to him keeping his mouth shut instead of coming forward about it if his favorite teacher said that to him.
the STEM teacher shoulda put the project on his desk until he got access to a school display case to put it in with clay and watercolor things kids made in the other creative departments, if the STEM classes don't have a display of their own. Most schools have something like that.

Quote:
D. What part of Zero tolerance don't parents understand. It's zero tolerance for a reason. While I agree the arrest and hand cuffs were over the top, the suspension isn't. It's not the worst thing in the world to get suspended from school. Parents need to get over it.
What "zero tolerance" rule would cover bringing a harmless science project to school to show off to a relevant teacher? It isn't a bomb, a fake bomb, a replica bomb, a hoax bomb or even the functional electronics for any kind of bomb. It's a clock. It tells time.

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Old 16th September 2015, 11:05 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
I think the kid was probably passive aggressive and I kind of wonder if he didn't bring it to school on purpose just to cause a scene.
As opposed to the outright aggression from the teacher that insisted it could be a bomb? Sorry, but even if one is construing him to be passive-aggressive, then at least take into the account that most of us would say things that could be construed as passive-aggresive in a situation where someone basically astounds us by their immense stupidity. I know that when someone baffles me like the bomb-insisting teacher must've baffled him, I'd be hard-pressed to say anything that someone like you couldn't have claimed was passive-aggression.

I mean, seriously, if you're trying to construe this as passive-aggression:

They were like, So you tried to make a bomb? Ahmed said.

I told them no, I was trying to make a clock.

He said, It looks like a movie bomb to me.


Then you're really clutching at the thinnest of straws.


As for the second part, you're actually right. He did bring it to cause a scene. The scene was "Hey, science teacher, I made a cool clock from scratch, isn't that neat?!"

Which, you know, is the kind of scene that kids love doing all the fricking time. And is also the kind of scene that we should damn well encourage them to do more of.

But hey, nice attempt trying to rewrite it so that he simply must have done something wrong.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:07 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
But several questions.

A. Why bring it to school in a little suitcase like that?
It needed to be in a hard case. He couldn't have just carried it around with the wires flopping, that would risk damaging the thing he worked hard on. You'll notice that most electronics you interact with, from your remote control to your laptop, are in hard cases.

Why use that particular case? It's a pencil box, I can't speak for him as an individual, but I'm not sure how many kinds of hard case are available to him or why he should have thought that was a worse choice than other hard cases.

Beyond that, carrying wires around outside of a case would be just as if not more likely to cause suspicion. There are no shortage of stories of DIY wired objects causing police reaction because the wires were out and visible while being carried.


Quote:
B. Why bring it to school at all?
To show it to his engineering teacher, I thought that had been clearly established.
Quote:
C. Why did the engineering teacher tell him not to show it to the other teachers. The teacher should have stepped in right then, not told him to be sneaky about it. It probably contributed to him keeping his mouth shut instead of coming forward about it if his favorite teacher said that to him.
I haven't seen yet what words the teacher used, but the accounts I've seen don't specify other teachers, just not to show it to anyone which may well have been an injunction just not to distract his classes with his new toy.

I don't see any of his actions that could be interpreted as keeping his mouth shut anyway. When asked what it was he seems to have quickly identified it to all who asked.

Quote:
D. What part of Zero tolerance don't parents understand. It's zero tolerance for a reason. While I agree the arrest and hand cuffs were over the top, the suspension isn't. It's not the worst thing in the world to get suspended from school. Parents need to get over it.
I think zero tolerance that includes punishment for actions with no intent to break rules, no intent to harm, no real risks are poor policy.

I think zero tolerance for people who intend harm, who act violently, who create risk, who flount the rules can make sense. Zero tolerance for doing something that others misinterpret doesn't.

Effective zero tolerance policy doesn't use magical thinking and punish anything that even looks vaguely like something else.

All effective policy has to be clear in what it targets and clearly predictable to those under the policy.

"Don't bring in a clock because people might think you're trying to make a fake bomb" isn't a reasonable inference from a zero tolerance policy against weapons.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:16 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Hawk one View Post
As opposed to the outright aggression from the teacher that insisted it could be a bomb? Sorry, but even if one is construing him to be passive-aggressive, then at least take into the account that most of us would say things that could be construed as passive-aggresive in a situation where someone basically astounds us by their immense stupidity. I know that when someone baffles me like the bomb-insisting teacher must've baffled him, I'd be hard-pressed to say anything that someone like you couldn't have claimed was passive-aggression.

I mean, seriously, if you're trying to construe this as passive-aggression:

“They were like, ‘So you tried to make a bomb?’” Ahmed said.

“I told them no, I was trying to make a clock.”

“He said, ‘It looks like a movie bomb to me.’”


Then you're really clutching at the thinnest of straws.


As for the second part, you're actually right. He did bring it to cause a scene. The scene was "Hey, science teacher, I made a cool clock from scratch, isn't that neat?!"

Which, you know, is the kind of scene that kids love doing all the fricking time. And is also the kind of scene that we should damn well encourage them to do more of.

But hey, nice attempt trying to rewrite it so that he simply must have done something wrong.


No what I mean is what I said. (Seriously WTF is up with the knee jerk rage induced posting style on this site where people don't ever bother to read what was actually written before spewing out a fuming litany of bullspit.


Again, his engineering teacher TOLD him not to show it to the other teachers. They didn't call the cops immediately did they....stop.........think..........who was he probably talking to.............think try........


OK so he's being passive aggressive and withholding because his ENGINEERING TEACHER told him not to tell anyone else. That's probably why they called the cops.

It probably had more to do with his DEMEANOR than what he was actually saying.

Walks out grumbling....................I don't even know why I bother trying to have a rational reasonable discussion on this site EVER.

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Old 16th September 2015, 11:21 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
In Hollywood bombs always have a clock or a countdown timer on them, in real life they have nothing of the sort.
They also all have a Red Wire and A White Wire, which the hero had to choose between cutting.......


Gorss overreaction by the School Authrotities.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:27 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
No what I mean is what I said. (Seriously WTF is up with the knee jerk rage induced posting style on this site where people don't ever bother to read what was actually written before spewing out a fuming litany of bullspit.


Again, his engineering teacher TOLD him not to show it to the other teachers. They didn't call the cops immediately did they....stop.........think..........who was he probably talking to.............think try........


OK so he's being passive aggressive and withholding because his ENGINEERING TEACHER told him not to tell anyone else. That's probably why they called the cops.

It probably had more to do with his DEMEANOR than what he was actually saying.

Walks out grumbling....................I don't even know why I bother trying to have a rational reasonable discussion on this site EVER.

Your "rational, reasonable" post was filled with assumptions that appear preloaded by what the cops and school said: he was passive aggressive, the little box was somehow suspicious in itself, he was told to be sneaky, and that somehow this falls under some zero tolerance policy or other.

None of those things are actually true.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:31 AM   #69
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So, um, this device that they supposedly thought was a bomb...uh, did anyone treat it As such? You know, clear the area, safely detonate it, and so forth?
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:35 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
No what I mean is what I said. (Seriously WTF is up with the knee jerk rage induced posting style on this site where people don't ever bother to read what was actually written before spewing out a fuming litany of bullspit.
You mean stuff like this?:

Quote:
Again, his engineering teacher TOLD him not to show it to the other teachers. They didn't call the cops immediately did they....stop.........think..........who was he probably talking to.............think try........


OK so he's being passive aggressive and withholding because his ENGINEERING TEACHER told him not to tell anyone else. That's probably why they called the cops.

It probably had more to do with his DEMEANOR than what he was actually saying.

Walks out grumbling....................I don't even know why I bother trying to have a rational reasonable discussion on this site EVER.

Seriously, you should try to read what you yourself write, because that BS right there is so far from rational, it's not even funny. The irony of you —one of the most emotional and least rational posters I know of— trying to appeal to reason with something like that is nothing less than astounding.

And for the record, if you'd read my post, you'd have seen that what I responded to was what you claimed: That you thought the kid was probably passive-aggresive. I proceeded to show several problems with this claim, in a rather rational and reasonable manner. And in return, I get that pathetic lickspittle of a post I just quoted.

Let's not forget the fact that you just came with another one of your (in)famous and rather typical knee-jerk reactions to anyone who dares disagreeing with or criticizing anything you say. You know, just to fulfill today's quota of utter and complete hypocricy in one single post.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:37 AM   #71
truethat
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
Your "rational, reasonable" post was filled with assumptions that appear preloaded by what the cops and school said: he was passive aggressive, the little box was somehow suspicious in itself, he was told to be sneaky, and that somehow this falls under some zero tolerance policy or other.

None of those things are actually true.
No you interpreted it that way. I based it on the information given in the details of the report. Not other peoples outrage posts on line.

He carried it around with him. The engineering teacher told him not to show it to the other teachers. Anyone with half a brain can see how if then those same other teachers confronted him on it he would pull back and not be forthcoming as his own comments show.

His Engineering teacher is the one at fault here. Why in the world would you tell him that he should be sneaky about it instead of treating it like a science project....

whatever..... go on in your rage frenzies. Explanations and reasons and logic never seem to make a dent around here anyway.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:38 AM   #72
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No, they thought it was a "hoax bomb" meaning something obviously not a bomb but built to resemble one. Had he used D-cells wrapped in tape for a power supply they might have been correct, but if you look at the link I posted upthread it looks nothing like a bomb.

It looks like a clock built out of several other things and installed in a child's pencil box. Which it is.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:40 AM   #73
Psi Baba
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
So, um, this device that they supposedly thought was a bomb...uh, did anyone treat it As such? You know, clear the area, safely detonate it, and so forth?
They tried to say that it was a "Hoax bomb." By that logic, they could call anything they don't recognize a hoax bomb. There is no way out of that for the accused.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:41 AM   #74
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"Rage frenzies." Indeed, I'm raging so much I'm considering just mailing him MY soldering station so he has a decent iron instead of a 4 dollar woodburning pencil.

I'm outraged by ignorant assumptions. Like that he was "passive aggressive" by insisting his clock was a clock.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:41 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
No what I mean is what I said. (Seriously WTF is up with the knee jerk rage induced posting style on this site where people don't ever bother to read what was actually written before
Could you please point out the knee jerk rage?

Originally Posted by truethat View Post
spewing out a fuming litany of bullspit.
Is this knee jerk rage?


Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Again, his engineering teacher TOLD him not to show it to the other teachers. They didn't call the cops immediately did they....stop.........think..........who was he probably talking to.............think try........
Your train of thought seems ....... fractured. What are you trying to say?

Originally Posted by truethat View Post
OK so he's being passive aggressive
Evidence that he actually was passive-agressive? And why would this matter if he was?

Originally Posted by truethat View Post
and withholding because his ENGINEERING TEACHER told him not to tell anyone else. That's probably why they called the cops.
Once he was questioned by school staff he sees to have been quite willing to tell them that it was a clock.

Originally Posted by truethat View Post
It probably had more to do with his DEMEANOR than what he was actually saying.
What is the "It" that you are referring to? What was his demeanor?

Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Walks out grumbling....................I don't even know why I bother trying to have a rational reasonable discussion on this site EVER.

Perhaps it would help if your posts were more rational, and clear.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:42 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
What "zero tolerance" rule would cover bringing a harmless science project to school to show off to a relevant teacher? It isn't a bomb, a fake bomb, a replica bomb, a hoax bomb or even the functional electronics for any kind of bomb. It's a clock. It tells time.
It's Texas, they have a zero tolerance policy for science in school!
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:43 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
No, they thought it was a "hoax bomb" meaning something obviously not a bomb but built to resemble one. Had he used D-cells wrapped in tape for a power supply they might have been correct, but if you look at the link I posted upthread it looks nothing like a bomb.

It looks like a clock built out of several other things and installed in a child's pencil box. Which it is.
Here is what the teacher told him

Quote:
In the news reports from Dallas News, they address this. He proudly showed his first teacher of the day his clock project, looking for feedback. This is important. He brought this device to a teacher in the morning and showed it off. He encouraged the teacher to look at it. The teacher gave him positive feedback but also said, according to Ahmed, I would advise you not to show any other teachers. And he did not.


Again. COMMON SENSE> LOGIC > Reason. WHO IS THE ONE who suggested to him that there was something wrong with it being a clock the way it looked?

His ENGINEERING TEACHER. Not the other teachers who probably less versed in what that looked like. His ENGINEERING TEACHER is the one who switched it into something "Suspicious" and most likely this impacted the way the kid reacted when the other teachers asked him about it.

The kid is 14 years old. So why didn't the Engineering teacher INSTEAD tell him to show all the teachers and explain that it was a clock. Why did THAT teacher tell him to be secretive about it.


Don't even bother responding really. I'm not interested in discussing this further. Have a great day.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:44 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
No, they thought it was a "hoax bomb" meaning something obviously not a bomb but built to resemble one..
I guess this is what confuses me.

I get the concern over a bombing hoax. When I was in grad school, it was common for the police to get bomb threats on nights of big exams.

But this kid wasn't actually claiming it to be a bomb, or doing a bombing hoax! He never left it sitting in a discrete place, or pretended it was a bomb.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:45 AM   #79
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:46 AM   #80
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
So, um, this device that they supposedly thought was a bomb...uh, did anyone treat it As such? You know, clear the area, safely detonate it, and so forth?
As others have noted, they didn't actually confuse it for a bomb.

But it reminds me of TSA, who confiscate your liquids and throw them in the waste container. Wait, what? You are disposing of a suspected liquid explosive in the waste basket?

Some day, I will piss everyone off and shut down the airport by calling the FBI and telling them that TSA is putting suspected explosives in a public area.
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