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Old 16th September 2015, 11:48 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post

Again. COMMON SENSE> LOGIC > Reason.
I am not sure I understand your notation or your meaning. May I ask for clarification?
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:49 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I guess this is what confuses me.

I get the concern over a bombing hoax. When I was in grad school, it was common for the police to get bomb threats on nights of big exams.

But this kid wasn't actually claiming it to be a bomb, or doing a bombing hoax! He never left it sitting in a discrete place, or pretended it was a bomb.
Nor was he sneaking around; as I understand he had it plugged into a wall in the English class. Maybe I'm wrong, journalism ain't what it use to be.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:54 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
No you interpreted it that way. I based it on the information given in the details of the report. Not other peoples outrage posts on line.

He carried it around with him. The engineering teacher told him not to show it to the other teachers. Anyone with half a brain can see how if then those same other teachers confronted him on it he would pull back and not be forthcoming as his own comments show.

His Engineering teacher is the one at fault here. Why in the world would you tell him that he should be sneaky about it instead of treating it like a science project....

whatever..... go on in your rage frenzies. Explanations and reasons and logic never seem to make a dent around here anyway.
He didn't voluntarily show it to another teacher without being asked according to the article: it was in a briefcase in English class when he plugged it in and it made a noise. That is what attracted the English teacher's attention.

So who, he or the teachers and police, have half a brain? If you see wires around a circuit board, you might ask what it is, but to assume it is a bomb? No wonder Radio Shack declared bankruptcy!

What was he supposed to say once he told them (correctly) that it was a clock project? And how happy would you be if a whole bunch of adults suddenly demanded even more answers of you because they thought it could be a (fake) bomb, most likely because of your skin color and religion, and put you in handcuffs? Clearly the engineering teacher was right because of what actually happened.

Anyway are you suggesting that a 14 year old may lack somewhat in mature, deep, and calm thinking skills when detained and suspended because a bunch of authorities think you are a terrorist because you built a clock?

This post is based entirely on the news article you claim to have read.

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Old 16th September 2015, 11:55 AM   #84
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GyFFS, truethat.
It wasn't the STEM teacher, it was the English teacher that told him not to show it (and then confiscated it) after the alarm part rang during class.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:58 AM   #85
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Just a clarification, the "briefcase" is the pencil box with a lenticular picture on the lid.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:58 AM   #86
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Does this remind anyone of the TV show Mayberry where Barney the deputy was so incompetent that he was allowed to have a gun only if he kept the single bullet in his shirt pocket? Sounds more true to life than I ever suspected.
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Old 16th September 2015, 11:59 AM   #87
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The passive aggressive accusation seems to come from the kid simply disagreeing with the cops. The accuse him of making a hoax* bomb, and he replies that he only intended for it to be a clock.

That is not passive aggressive in my book, but I know people who would think that it is. As far as they are concerned, the kid needs to agree with Law Enforcement every time. It does not matter if the kid is right and the police are wrong.

The cops perhaps don't understand what a hoax actually is. They seem to think that if it looks like a bomb to some, it must be a hoax, regardless of the kid's intentions.

*just for fun, I like to image the police here talking in a very strong redneck accent, and saying "hoax" with two syllables: "Wut we got here is a hoe-axe! Deys tryin to pull one over un us, but wees to smart fur dat!""

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Old 16th September 2015, 12:05 PM   #88
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I stand corrected then. But this article states that the English teacher is the one that confiscated it


http://www.dallasnews.com/news/commu...-to-school.ece

The point is, THAT is the person who caused this whole mess. Not Ahmed and not the other teachers.

He came to school eagerly showing off the clock and the first teacher told him not to show it to anyone else. THAT is the person that caused the misunderstanding.

It's understandable that if the teacher says to him (Don't show this to any of your other teachers!) They have now shifted it from a clock to something ominous and this would most likely be reflected in the child's demeanor if then later those same "other teachers" asked him about it.

A. If there was a problem with it, the first teacher should have taken care of it right then, not tell the student to be secretive about it.

B. If there wasn't a problem with it, the teacher should have encouraged the student to show the other teachers and the issue would have been avoided.

All this ranting and raging is unreasonable. It was a series of misunderstandings. I can't fault the school for their original confusion.

I do think that the police reaction was absolutely over the top. (I've already stated this but of course no one is bothering to read it)


And again the passive aggressive comment is referring to his original demeanor with he first teachers who asked him about it. I'm sure the schools first reaction wasn't to throw up the bat signal and call the cops.

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Old 16th September 2015, 12:07 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
Nor was he sneaking around; as I understand he had it plugged into a wall in the English class. Maybe I'm wrong, journalism ain't what it use to be.
That doesn't make sense. It looked like it was run off a 9v battery from the pictures I saw. No 110 VAC plug
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Old 16th September 2015, 12:08 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The passive aggressive accusation seems to come from the kid simply disagreeing with the cops. The accuse him of making a hoax* bomb, and he replies that he only intended for it to be a clock.
Disagreeing with a cop with that skintone? People get hurt bad for that.
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Old 16th September 2015, 12:09 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The passive aggressive accusation seems to come from the kid simply disagreeing with the cops. The accuse him of making a hoax* bomb, and he replies that he only intended for it to be a clock.

That is not passive aggressive in my book, but I know people who would think that it is. As far as they are concerned, the kid needs to agree with Law Enforcement every time. It does not matter if the kid is right and the police are wrong.

The cops perhaps don't understand what a hoax actually is. They seem to think that if it looks like a bomb to some, it must be a hoax, regardless of the kid's intentions.

*just for fun, I like to image the police here talking in a very strong redneck accent, and saying "hoax" with two syllables: "Wut we got here is a hoe-axe! Deys tryin to pull one over un us, but wees to smart fur dat!""
Of course he was being passive aggressive: he denied it was a fake bomb despite the cops telling him otherwise.

On thinking more about it, I am surrounded by fake bombs. My flashlight alone has wires, an enclosure, and batteries that look a lot like the dynamite sticks depicted on TV. And my car is actually a real bomb, I guess, because it actually is wired to make explosions (a few hundred or thousand a minute at idle).
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Old 16th September 2015, 12:09 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
That doesn't make sense. It looked like it was run off a 9v battery from the pictures I saw. No 110 VAC plug
The twitter pic linked earlier clearly shows the AC cord and transformer, the 9v battery snap is a backup battery like on many 120VAC clocks.
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Old 16th September 2015, 12:10 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Disagreeing with a cop with that skintone? People get hurt bad for that.
Yeah- what's his complaint? They didn't shoot him, did they?
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Old 16th September 2015, 12:13 PM   #94
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Now THIS is a real bomb hoax

http://roadwarriorvoices.com/2015/09...-hoax-as-well/
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Old 16th September 2015, 12:29 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
I kind of agree with this. Seems the most rational approach than all the screaming meemees flipping out like there wasn't a reason to be concerned.

I think the kid was probably passive aggressive and I kind of wonder if he didn't bring it to school on purpose just to cause a scene.

Regardless the handcuffs are ridiculous and over kill.


As the mom of a Muslim Arab son who is also interested in Engineering I can tell the kid was interested, my kid had a room filled with things like that.

But several questions.

A. Why bring it to school in a little suitcase like that?
That was the box he could use to mount the LED numbers. And to protect the electronics during transport.


Quote:
B. Why bring it to school at all?
Story specifies this. He was proud of what he did, and wanted to show his engineering teacher.

Quote:
C. Why did the engineering teacher tell him not to show it to the other teachers. The teacher should have stepped in right then, not told him to be sneaky about it. It probably contributed to him keeping his mouth shut instead of coming forward about it if his favorite teacher said that to him.
The teacher likely saw it might cause a problem. Kid wasn't being sneaky. He had it in his backpack. Which kids use to transport items to and from school.

Quote:
D. What part of Zero tolerance don't parents understand. It's zero tolerance for a reason. While I agree the arrest and hand cuffs were over the top, the suspension isn't. It's not the worst thing in the world to get suspended from school. Parents need to get over it.
I wasn't aware there was a zero tolerance towards clocks.
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Old 16th September 2015, 12:31 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Of course he was being passive aggressive: he denied it was a fake bomb despite the cops telling him otherwise.

On thinking more about it, I am surrounded by fake bombs. My flashlight alone has wires, an enclosure, and batteries that look a lot like the dynamite sticks depicted on TV. And my car is actually a real bomb, I guess, because it actually is wired to make explosions (a few hundred or thousand a minute at idle).
Have to be careful! My wifes R2D2 has wires in it! A BIIIG battery to power it! And it's remote controlled! Might be a bomb!
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Old 16th September 2015, 12:39 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Have to be careful! My wifes R2D2 has wires in it! A BIIIG battery to power it! And it's remote controlled! Might be a bomb!
Your home life must be very exciting!!
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Old 16th September 2015, 12:41 PM   #98
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I would suggest the Science teacher told the kid not to show the clock to anyone else because he was concerned that one of the boy's class mates would think it was funny to wreck his hard work.
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Old 16th September 2015, 12:45 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
So the president invited the kid to bring his "clock" to the White House. Does anyone think the Secret Service ought to run it through the scanner a couple of extra times? You know, just in case?
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:04 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
So basically what actually happened here is this kid took a nightstand alarm clock out of its plastic casing, put it into this miniature footlocker-looking box, and told everybody that it was a homemade clock he built from scratch. And people fell for it so hard that "maker" product companies are offering to send him free products now.
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:10 PM   #101
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the twitter feed is sad, so many people defending the school and the cops/ "it doesn't look like a clock to me!!" jeebus
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:11 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
So basically what actually happened here is this kid took a nightstand alarm clock out of its plastic casing, put it into this miniature footlocker-looking box, and told everybody that it was a homemade clock he built from scratch. And people fell for it so hard that "maker" product companies are offering to send him free products now.
If he is 14 and did it himself, it seems impressive. Not world class, but he took it apart, cut some wires, cut the right size hole in the pencil box, reassembled it and soldered the wires. I know adults who can't do that.

The rewards he is getting are not related to the skill involved, nor should they be.
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:12 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
I favour the introduction of corporal punishment for stupid school officials.
Yes.........
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:19 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
So basically what actually happened here is this kid took a nightstand alarm clock out of its plastic casing, put it into this miniature footlocker-looking box, and told everybody that it was a homemade clock he built from scratch. And people fell for it so hard that "maker" product companies are offering to send him free products now.
Nope.
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:27 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
The Dallas news reports that this 14 year old brought a clock he made to school to show his science teacher, who's advice to him was "don't show it to anyone else." And he didn't, until the alarm went off in English class. And somehow we go from teen bringing selfmade clock to school to a police officer opining "Yup, that's what I thought he'd look like" and leading him out of the school in cuffs and a three day suspension because (I'm guessing without a case over the innards) said clock looked like cartoon bomb.

People like this make me want to grab them and shake the common sense into them.

After encouraging Ahmed to keep up the good work.
First you have to shake out the fecal matter in their cranial cavity.
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:27 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
So basically what actually happened here is this kid took a nightstand alarm clock out of its plastic casing, put it into this miniature footlocker-looking box, and told everybody that it was a homemade clock he built from scratch. And people fell for it so hard that "maker" product companies are offering to send him free products now.
I don't know the details, but it easily could have been made from a commercial kit. The components (circuit board, display, switches, etc.) come unassembled and need to be mounted and connected together. Not surprisingly, these are are same components found already assembled in retail alarm clocks.

As with most digital electronics there is relatively little actual assembly of electronic components today (my Raspberry Pi project didn't even require solder to assemble- just some sockets, cables, components, and mechanical supports). Even if "only" a commercial kit or reassembly of a completed clock, I think that the kid did a good job and at 14 learned more than many of his adult teachers and cops learned their entire lives.

I used to take apart mechanical clocks when I was a kid (be careful of the mainspring- it is very angry being wound into that tight spiral!) and I regret that there is not much to see in electronic clocks today. But that is another story.
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:31 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
If he is 14 and did it himself, it seems impressive. Not world class, but he took it apart, cut some wires, cut the right size hole in the pencil box, reassembled it and soldered the wires. I know adults who can't do that.
Components in consumer electronic devices are typically secured by screws, so taking it apart required a small Phillips screwdriver - a #1 most likely to remove the components - perhaps a #2 for the casing itself.

As for cutting wires and drilling holes, I see no evidence of either of these things. The power cord clearly is just hanging over/out of the bottom of the case, with no slots or holes drilled to accommodate the cord. The LED board looks to have two screws going through it, but it is "mounted" at a weird angle and there's no way of knowing that the screws weren't simply self-drilled into the fabric lining and maybe the plastic shell of the case for instance. All of the rest of the components are simply laying in the case, secured to nothing.

It looks to me as if the components were removed from an alarm clock shell and placed, completely intact, into this case with no visible evidence of any actual modification, substituted parts, soldering of any kind, or additional wires or components.
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:32 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
So basically what actually happened here is this kid took a nightstand alarm clock out of its plastic casing, put it into this miniature footlocker-looking box, and told everybody that it was a homemade clock he built from scratch. And people fell for it so hard that "maker" product companies are offering to send him free products now.
I suspect you missed a detail or two since journalism ain't what it used to be. The numerical display was not the original, and in his DIY video interview it seems he might have used a power supply from something else.

Piss on his accomplishments all you like AFTER posting pix of your own creations. Ktnksbye.

{eta}
Or maybe some of it was a kit. The "news" stories are unclear on this.

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Old 16th September 2015, 01:32 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
Looks like he made it by cannibalizing a coffee maker or some other appliance. Hard part would have been cutting a squarish hole in the case for the display. Still, pretty good scavenging for a kid, it shows he understands that stuff is modular in construction. And there is nothing resembling "dynamite sticks" or anything resembling a block of Plastique.
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:34 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
The twitter pic linked earlier clearly shows the AC cord and transformer, the 9v battery snap is a backup battery like on many 120VAC clocks.
I'm surprised he wasn't accused of planning to steal the school's electricity.
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:37 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
"Rage frenzies." Indeed, I'm raging so much I'm considering just mailing him MY soldering station so he has a decent iron instead of a 4 dollar woodburning pencil.

I'm outraged by ignorant assumptions. Like that he was "passive aggressive" by insisting his clock was a clock.
And who gives a **** about him being passive aggressive, anyway? It ain't against the law. Hell, it's my basic communication mode.

Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
So who, he or the teachers and police, have half a brain?
No, no. You can still function with half a brain. They probably had far less.
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:38 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
I favour the introduction of corporal punishment for stupid school officials.
Thread should have ended here. I think this idea is should be unanimous.
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:40 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Disagreeing with a cop with that skintone? People get hurt bad for that.
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:44 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I don't know the details, but it easily could have been made from a commercial kit. The components (circuit board, display, switches, etc.) come unassembled and need to be mounted and connected together. Not surprisingly, these are are same components found already assembled in retail alarm clocks.

As with most digital electronics there is relatively little actual assembly of electronic components today (my Raspberry Pi project didn't even require solder to assemble- just some sockets, cables, components, and mechanical supports). Even if "only" a commercial kit or reassembly of a completed clock, I think that the kid did a good job and at 14 learned more than many of his adult teachers and cops learned their entire lives.

I used to take apart mechanical clocks when I was a kid (be careful of the mainspring- it is very angry being wound into that tight spiral!) and I regret that there is not much to see in electronic clocks today. But that is another story.
I am unconvinced that any of these are commercial parts. In particular, the long skinny board, which was the switch/button input board for whatever alarm clock it was taken from (you can clearly see the contacts for the buttons) is very obviously made to fit a specific clock's control panel. Note also the spare-9v-battery lead hanging off the logic board - standard for any alarm clock, an odd thing to include on a project board and then not use.
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:45 PM   #115
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What, specifically, are you on bent out of shape about? At seems to me you're just throwing rocks at the thread.
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Old 16th September 2015, 01:52 PM   #116
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Not bent out of shape; once I saw the object I became highly skeptical that it was built from "scratch", or homemade in any classical sense, as has been claimed by the student and repeated in most of the news articles.
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Old 16th September 2015, 02:04 PM   #117
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Again, I'll point out that journalism ain't what it used to be. I'm sorry you suffered from it this time.
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Old 16th September 2015, 02:04 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Not bent out of shape; once I saw the object I became highly skeptical that it was built from "scratch", or homemade in any classical sense, as has been claimed by the student and repeated in most of the news articles.
And...? No-one is suggesting this kid is some kind of genius. This 14 yo was obviously proud enough of what he did to want to show his teacher. My daughter will be 14 in November so I am quite sensitive to the types of things a kid this age might be proud of. The details of how easy you think his project was have no bearing of the topic of this thread.

Go pick on someone your own age!
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Old 16th September 2015, 02:08 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Not bent out of shape; once I saw the object I became highly skeptical that it was built from "scratch", or homemade in any classical sense, as has been claimed by the student and repeated in most of the news articles.
Again, I don't know the actual source of these materials, but at minimum the integrated circuits that drive the clock and the display are always pre-fabricated units, whether for retail clocks or for kits. The kits I've seen involve wiring them together (often using a pre-printed and partially assembled circuit board using cables, etc). In looking at the photos of the boy's clock I have no reason to not assume this came from a kit, or perhaps represented separately obtained chips, display, etc. wired together. But of course I can not be certain that these did not came from the guts of a pre-assembled clock, although the size and shape of the items and length of the cables makes this seem less likely than a kit or self-assembled.

Even if originally together in a retail clock, the mounting of the display etc, looks pretty good for a 14 year old (based on my own experiences and own kids). Is he an electronic genius? Probably not. Did he design his own integrated chip-timer circuit and print it using micro lithography? Certainly not. Is he a 14 year old geek interested in electronics and not a bomb maker- definitely.

I am sorry if this 14 year old may not have lived up to your technical expectations or hopes (hard to know exactly where he started), but no matter what, I appreciate his spirit and interests.

Last edited by Giordano; 16th September 2015 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 16th September 2015, 02:14 PM   #120
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I found the video of the police presser from today, announcing no charges
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn2JtbA7enY
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