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Old 17th September 2015, 02:59 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
It's also interesting to me that the kid is accused of being "passive aggressive", is that code for not actually aggressive but sticking to his guns ?
Insufficient grovelling to the authorities I suspect.

Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
An interview with the "suspect."
http://www.latimes.com/visuals/video...ddedvideo.html

Yep, I wanna buy him a soldering station. Anyone here with crowd funding experience? Seriously.
I think there's one already.

Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
A bit of the future just died.
Originally Posted by Newtons Bit View Post
Maybe it's time to end the war on nerds...
Yep let's eliminate people's interest in innovation.

Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
So, um, this device that they supposedly thought was a bomb...uh, did anyone treat it As such? You know, clear the area, safely detonate it, and so forth?
Nope.

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
It's Texas, they have a zero tolerance policy for science in school!
It does seem that way.
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Old 17th September 2015, 03:38 AM   #162
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Exclamation

Originally Posted by truethat View Post
No what I mean is what I said. (Seriously WTF is up with the knee jerk rage induced posting style on this site where people don't ever bother to read what was actually written before spewing out a fuming litany of bullspit.


Again, his engineering teacher TOLD him not to show it to the other teachers. They didn't call the cops immediately did they....stop.........think..........who was he probably talking to.............think try........


OK so he's being passive aggressive and withholding because his ENGINEERING TEACHER told him not to tell anyone else. That's probably why they called the cops.

It probably had more to do with his DEMEANOR than what he was actually saying.

Walks out grumbling....................I don't even know why I bother trying to have a rational reasonable discussion on this site EVER.

If they had given him a detention for being disrespectful to a teacher, this wouldn't have made headlines.

They arrested him and led him away in handcuffs.

Who cares what his DEMEANOR was? Really. Unless he was being violent, who cares? In the old days, even if he was being violent that wouldn't have mattered, because he's a pretty scrawny 14 year old and the staff could pretty easily subdue him and put him in his place. However, in these times, you could get sued for that, so if he had been being violent or threatening to be violent, then our idiotic society has created a situation where arrest could be warranted. However, he wasn't. There's just no excuse.

I would need more information to determine the exact sort of stupidity that was being displayed here, but I don't need more information to determine that this was stupid.


Of course, this is the best thing that ever happened to him. He's going to get some money, and a trip to the White House, and his 15 minutes of fame.

ETA: This is odd. There's an exclamation point in the title area of this post. I didn't put it there, (on purpose anyway), and I can't see a way to get rid of it.
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Old 17th September 2015, 03:49 AM   #163
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I wonder how the story would have gone had he a whitey name...
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Old 17th September 2015, 04:21 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
If they had given him a detention for being disrespectful to a teacher, this wouldn't have made headlines.

They arrested him and led him away in handcuffs.

Who cares what his DEMEANOR was? Really. Unless he was being violent, who cares? In the old days, even if he was being violent that wouldn't have mattered, because he's a pretty scrawny 14 year old and the staff could pretty easily subdue him and put him in his place. However, in these times, you could get sued for that, so if he had been being violent or threatening to be violent, then our idiotic society has created a situation where arrest could be warranted. However, he wasn't. There's just no excuse.

I would need more information to determine the exact sort of stupidity that was being displayed here, but I don't need more information to determine that this was stupid.


Of course, this is the best thing that ever happened to him. He's going to get some money, and a trip to the White House, and his 15 minutes of fame.

ETA: This is odd. There's an exclamation point in the title area of this post. I didn't put it there, (on purpose anyway), and I can't see a way to get rid of it.

He is still suspended because you are not supposed to bring things like that to school. There's a zero tolerance policy.

Again, the original teacher who saw the clock should have walked him down to the office and said "Hey Ahmed made this cool clock and we're going to turn it in now for him to pick up after school."

Had he done that none of this would have been an issue.

Instead the teacher told him to hide it from others and not show anyone. Then the boy gets "caught" with it in the bag. The reaction the boy had most likely contributed to the way it appeared to the English teacher. He seemed "busted" or "in trouble" and "nervous."

The other teacher told him it was something to be secretive about. He's a 14 year old kid, in interviews you can see that he's a pretty respectful kid. So it's clear that his reaction to being "caught" with something that the other teacher told him was wrong to have, most likely contributed to how he responded to the English teacher.


Compare it to a kid bringing a pocket knife to school with him that his boy scout troop got over the weekend.

If a kid came up and showed you it in school, would you

A. Tell him, "hey this is cool but you can't have this in school. Let's take it to the principals office now."

or


B. Tell him to hide it in his bag and not show it to other teachers.

That's what caused the entire mess.

And again, the picture of him in handcuffs is absolutely ridiculous.


The kid mentioned in the interview that he's thinking of changing schools. Smart move Ahmed, maybe some benefactor will pay for your education at a private school! I hope they do.

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Old 17th September 2015, 04:27 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
He is still suspended because you are not supposed to bring things like that to school. There's a zero tolerance policy.
What's "things like that"? A clock?
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Old 17th September 2015, 04:32 AM   #166
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Yes, it's unfortunate but there are rules about zero tolerance policies in school.

Far too many people debate the way they are just blanketed rules. But they have to be, purely for the amount of time it would take and the amount of legal issues that would open up if it wasn't just a blanket policy.


The goal isn't to punish the child but to deter kids from bringing things in like this. That doesn't mean kids don't bring things in like this, they are KIDS after all. He doesn't know any better.

That's why I keep pointing out that the teacher is wrong.

And this is why also his suspension STILL STANDS. He's still suspended. Or did everyone miss that.

In my opinion the problem was his reaction to getting busted with it and how he came across to the English teacher. I believe this is because of the actions of the first teacher.

There was no reason for them to call the police. They could have simply suspended him.



ETA not a "clock" a home made device like that. So let's take it out of the "terrorism" arena for a second. Let's say Ahmed wasn't this super great engineer and he put together this wired up device and he's going over his friends house after school to work on it. Totally innocent. (as he was in this case) But a wire glitches and it sets of a spark that hits paper in his bag and sets the bag on fire.

It would create an issue that would interrupt the educational process for the day. They'd have to do a fire alarm and put it out, investigate what happened etc. All based on an innocent act by the kid. So just don't bring things like that to school guys, it's unnecessary and not the place.

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Old 17th September 2015, 04:43 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
I recognize that I have a peculiar bent to come up with conspiracy theories. I don’t trust myself much on those theories. It is just a matter of considering all angles. Maybe I have played too much Forum Mafia.

So, where does my CT fail?
I think your CT is possibly correct in a very broad sense. The kid may have deliberately made something that looked like a fake bomb.


Now, let's parse that sentence above. He didn't make something that looked like a bomb. He didn't make something that was intended to look like a bomb. He may have made something that was intended to look like a fake bomb. That second level of misdirection is actually pretty important.

No one thought it was a bomb. No one was intended to think it was a bomb. He wasn't trying to create a threat using a fake bomb. He was, if your CT is correct, trying to create a mental image using some sort of parody device, which obviously was not a bomb.

When questioned about whether or not he was deliberately making something that could be mistaken for a fake bomb. He may very well have disingenuously said that it was just a clock, when he knew very well that it was a clock that was modded to give the appearance of a bad parody of a movie-style bomb.

In other words, he may have been having a little joke, and displayed an attitude. Arresting him for that is a sign that we live in very weird times, and a sign that the authorities involved were idiots.


And, the above gives the authorities every possible benefit of the doubt. If you do that, they seem like idiots. That's the most generous possible interpretation of their behavior.
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Old 17th September 2015, 04:44 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Yes, it's unfortunate but there are rules about zero tolerance policies in school.

Far too many people debate the way they are just blanketed rules. But they have to be, purely for the amount of time it would take and the amount of legal issues that would open up if it wasn't just a blanket policy.


The goal isn't to punish the child but to deter kids from bringing things in like this. That doesn't mean kids don't bring things in like this, they are KIDS after all. He doesn't know any better.

That's why I keep pointing out that the teacher is wrong.

And this is why also his suspension STILL STANDS. He's still suspended. Or did everyone miss that.

In my opinion the problem was his reaction to getting busted with it and how he came across to the English teacher. I believe this is because of the actions of the first teacher.

There was no reason for them to call the police. They could have simply suspended him.



ETA not a "clock" a home made device like that. So let's take it out of the "terrorism" arena for a second. Let's say Ahmed wasn't this super great engineer and he put together this wired up device and he' going over his friends house after school to work on it. Totally innocent. (as he was in this case) But a wire glitches and it sets of a spark that hits paper in his bag and sets the bag on fire.

It would create an issue that would interrupt the educational process for the day. They'd have to do a fire alarm and put it out, investigate what happened etc. All based on an innocent act by the kid. So just don't bring things like that to school guys, it's unnecessary and not the place.
How is it not the place? A school is meant to be a place of learning to do new things and trying to be creative; your attitude toward this sort of thing is apparently stifle creativity and advocate for conformity. Everyone must do exactly the same thing with no deviation. Well that's just stupid, as far as I'm concerned. This child may or may not be a mechanical prodigy, but he was trying something new, something that his teacher had very likely encouraged in the past or he wouldn't have thought to bring it in to show that teacher. That type of attitude should be cheered on and nurtured, not stifled and hidden from the world. The school was intolerant and is CLEARLY in the wrong here; how you can't see that is utterly beyond me at this point.
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Old 17th September 2015, 04:47 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
He brought it to English class in his bag, where the alarm started beeping during class. The English teacher complained about the beeping. He built the device. He knew how it worked. He knew it had an alarm. He knew the alarm would go off during class. Yet, he did not disable the device. He did not even turn off the alarm. So he has a device that he built and knows how to operate that he knows may appear as suspicious or a threat, which he has been told not to show to other teachers, but he sets up the device to set off an alarm during class. I can’t imagine why he would do that unless he wanted to draw attention to the device.
Oh, I can.

I know I'm supposed to turn my phone to silent during meetings. I know that. My phone has a simple switch to turn off the ringtone - it takes less than five seconds to do. But damned if my phone doesn't suddenly go off in the middle of a meeting and I have to scrabble about to turn the ringer off while everyone glares at me.

I certainly don't do it to draw attention to myself.
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Old 17th September 2015, 05:02 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
How is it not the place? A school is meant to be a place of learning to do new things and trying to be creative; your attitude toward this sort of thing is apparently stifle creativity and advocate for conformity. Everyone must do exactly the same thing with no deviation. Well that's just stupid, as far as I'm concerned. This child may or may not be a mechanical prodigy, but he was trying something new, something that his teacher had very likely encouraged in the past or he wouldn't have thought to bring it in to show that teacher. That type of attitude should be cheered on and nurtured, not stifled and hidden from the world. The school was intolerant and is CLEARLY in the wrong here; how you can't see that is utterly beyond me at this point.

Ok it's stupid as far as you are concerned. I get that. I constantly see people rant and rave about this fantasy land version of the school system and how it's supposed to be this bastion of learning and open mindedness.

Cheering on the childrens minds expecting to learn at every moment

I talk about this in my classes. I call it the Cosby show version of teaching.


In reality you have kids that show up, are not taken care of properly by parents at home, live in foster homes, are not properly fed or nurtured, who have bad attitudes and bully other children.

(I love this ying yang reality people have when discussing the education system. On the one hand they lament the lack of funding, the bullying, the lack of supplies needed, the busted social structures in homes, the way teachers are over worked.

Then in the same breath they expect teachers to be these super enthusiastic Mary Poppins learning advocates who place learning above all other legal issues.)


Teachers have enough crap to deal with every day BEFORE they even get to teaching, to have to take on more unnecessary legal issues and problems.

If you want to homeschool your kids, then by all means you can do whatever you want. But when you are in a system with policies in place they are there for a reason.

Your response is the same kind of response I see when people freak out because a child at a school has been diagnosed with a life threatening peanut allergy and the school enacts a zero tolerance policy in bringing peanut butter to school.

It may not make sense to you but it's done there for a bigger problem.

Some problems you might not realize

A. Recording devices
B. Electronic devices used for cheating on tests
C. Video taping devices.


(Awaits the inevitable "why should a teacher worry that they are being recorded or taped, if they are doing a good job they shouldn't care at all!!" Not realizing these are in place to protect other students and their privacy. Based on the number of suicides occurring when kids use social media and tape recording devices to embarrass their classmates)

But continue. I'd love to hear why you think in all your vast experience as an educator in a school system think this policy is crippling the brilliance of enthusiastic students.

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Old 17th September 2015, 05:04 AM   #171
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When they searched his computer did it show any links to ISIS or Al Qaeda websites?
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Old 17th September 2015, 05:26 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
When they searched his computer did it show any links to ISIS or Al Qaeda websites?
No, but he did have Jared's email address.
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Old 17th September 2015, 05:40 AM   #173
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I'm just glad that things are working out well for the kid. Everyone at that school is now looking a complete idiot, and the cops don't look too good in this either (he was being detained by five officers? Really?). No doubt all these people are influenced by their psychopathic mayor.
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Old 17th September 2015, 05:40 AM   #174
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If anybody does want to help the kid form
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Old 17th September 2015, 05:46 AM   #175
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BBC News: Ahmed's clock - Just what is a 'suspicious' object?

"One of the problems is that few people will have actually seen an explosive device in real life. Ahmed's clock consisted of a circuit board and power supply connected to a digital display by a few wires. "It looks like a movie bomb to me," said one of his questioners. But social media was ablaze with people ridiculing that judgement."


A few years back, I was travelling on the London Underground and - comign to the major station where I was due to change lines (London Bridge) - I noticed that on the ledge behind the seats there was one of those small paper carrier bags with string handles. Looking down into it, I saw a Filofax on top of what I quickly realised was obviously a mobile phone charger. I took it off the train and handed it in to staff on the gateline, remarking that it was a good job nobody had spotted the wires and jumped top the wrong conclusion, thus triggering a security alert.
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Old 17th September 2015, 05:50 AM   #176
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Charles Stross suggests starting Bring a Clock to School Day.


Many years ago at secondary school I too built a clock using a couple of ICs and a small breadboard. Mine even had flashing red LEDs and yet no-one cried "bomb".
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Old 17th September 2015, 06:06 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Oh, I can.

I know I'm supposed to turn my phone to silent during meetings. I know that. My phone has a simple switch to turn off the ringtone - it takes less than five seconds to do. But damned if my phone doesn't suddenly go off in the middle of a meeting and I have to scrabble about to turn the ringer off while everyone glares at me.

I certainly don't do it to draw attention to myself.
Even less fun when the ringtone is a song by AC, going "Beat beat beat beat beat beat beat YOUR WIFE!"
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Old 17th September 2015, 06:07 AM   #178
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I see the kid is going to the White House....Cool. Praise from Obama for being interested in science and engineering.

Now for a real "incident".....

Some years ago, we got a call of a "suspicious object". Sitting in the quadrangle, days before Commencement, was a suitcase with a red LED glowing and a red push-button.
No threats, no "intelligence".
While we were cordoning off the area, several more complaints came in, from all over the campus. There were a total of 7 of these devices at various points around the campus.
Severe panic.....We were just about to call the local National Guard base where they have an EOD unit... When it was learned that this was an "art project", and that the student's professor had forgotten to notify everyone.
When pressed, the button on each box caused a taped message to play from a cheap cassette player inside.

Most folks are, as noted, conditioned by TV and movies and expect a big, glowing, countdown clock to be attached to a bomb.
Few seem to realize that you also need a quantity of explosive....
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Old 17th September 2015, 06:13 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
It looks like a movie bomb.
If by movie bomb you mean "electronic device that doesn't resemble a real bomb and no rational person would have any reason to believe it does" then I would agree with you.

I hope no police officer actually said it looked like a movie bomb.

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Old 17th September 2015, 06:15 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Compare it to a kid bringing a pocket knife to school with him that his boy scout troop got over the weekend.
If a kid came up and showed you it in school, would you
A. Tell him, "hey this is cool but you can't have this in school. Let's take it to the principals office now."
or
B. Tell him to hide it in his bag and not show it to other teachers.
That's what caused the entire mess.
The difference between a pocket knife and a clock is not negligible.
Is suspension the appropriate response to children bringing anything other than their books and pens to school?
If he had been disruptive, or had gone around pretending he had a bomb, I could understand the suspension, but as it is, I can't see how what he has done is any worse than bringing a drawing or painting to show to his arts teacher, or a poem to show to his English teacher.

And doesn't it seem likely that the engineering teacher didn't confiscate the object because he didn't think it violated any rules?
But since he knew a beeping blinking object could potentially be disruptive he advised the kid to keep it in his bag, which he did.

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I wonder how the story would have gone had he a whitey name...
A good American name like McVeigh or Kaczynski.
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Old 17th September 2015, 06:18 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
The difference between a pocket knife and a clock is not negligible.
Is suspension the appropriate response to children bringing anything other than their books and pens to school?
If he had been disruptive, or had gone around pretending he had a bomb, I could understand the suspension, but as it is, I can't see how what he has done is any worse than bringing a drawing or painting to show to his arts teacher, or a poem to show to his English teacher.

And doesn't it seem likely that the engineering teacher didn't confiscate the object because he didn't think it violated any rules?
But since he knew a beeping blinking object could potentially be disru1ptive he advised the kid to keep it in his bag, which he did.


A good American name like McVeigh or Kaczynski.

Come on, this line of reasoning is ridiculous. First up if the engineering teacher didn't think any thing was wrong with it, then why did he tell him not to show it to the other teachers?

Number 2 it doesn't appear that they thought it was a "real bomb' but more like a joke mock up bomb. Bomb experts chiming in that it doesn't look like a real bomb is irrelevant.

Number 3 a peanut butter sandwich is not normally considered a lethal weapon, but it can be lethal to even ONE STUDENT.

The policies are put in place to protect students, not to dodge teaching opportunities or to punish kids.

The engineering teacher was wrong.
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Old 17th September 2015, 06:56 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Come on, this line of reasoning is ridiculous. First up if the engineering teacher didn't think any thing was wrong with it, then why did he tell him not to show it to the other teachers?

[...]

The engineering teacher was wrong.
Damn right the engineering teacher was a bit dim. But the fact that Ahmed showed it to the engineering teacher, and then followed the engineering teacher's instructions on what to do with it, should be protection enough from suspension.

Let's work the peanut butter sandwich analogy a little further. Suppose a kid quite innocently brings a peanut butter sandwich to school and shows it to his teacher. If the teacher says, "OK, you can keep the sandwich but don't let anybody else see it," then another teacher finds out about it, does that warrant a suspension of the kid? Or does it, perhaps, warrant a quick "Learn the rules and don't be so stupid next time" dressing down for the teacher?

Whatever policies are put in place to protect the students, there should also be some protection for students who follow teachers' reasonable-sounding instructions.

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Old 17th September 2015, 07:11 AM   #183
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Surely if anyone of the random adults involved had actually suspected it was any sort of bomb, the school would have been evacuated?

It appears not so I still don't understand needing the police.
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Old 17th September 2015, 07:18 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I wonder how the story would have gone had he a whitey name...
If this kid were white...he'd most likley still be in jail/detention
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Old 17th September 2015, 07:21 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Oh, I can.

I know I'm supposed to turn my phone to silent during meetings. I know that. My phone has a simple switch to turn off the ringtone - it takes less than five seconds to do. But damned if my phone doesn't suddenly go off in the middle of a meeting and I have to scrabble about to turn the ringer off while everyone glares at me.

I certainly don't do it to draw attention to myself.
I was thinking the same thing. Who has not had an alarm clock (or cell phone) go off at the wrong time? Who has not had trouble remembering how to turn the alarm off on an unfamiliar clock?

I think that is almost universal.

I am getting comments on my FB feed now that the clock was actually part of an assigned project. I have not yet seen any news accounts that verify that.
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Old 17th September 2015, 07:29 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Damn right the engineering teacher was a bit dim.
I'm not sure about that. The only bit of the engineering teacher's words or actions I've seen is a single sentence paraphrased by the Ahmed.

Unless you've seen a different source than I have, we really don't know what he said.
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Old 17th September 2015, 07:40 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Come on, this line of reasoning is ridiculous. First up if the engineering teacher didn't think any thing was wrong with it, then why did he tell him not to show it to the other teachers?

Number 2 it doesn't appear that they thought it was a "real bomb' but more like a joke mock up bomb. Bomb experts chiming in that it doesn't look like a real bomb is irrelevant.

Number 3 a peanut butter sandwich is not normally considered a lethal weapon, but it can be lethal to even ONE STUDENT.

The policies are put in place to protect students, not to dodge teaching opportunities or to punish kids.

The engineering teacher was wrong.
But no policy was violated.

It wasn't a bomb.

It wasn't a fake bomb.

It is conceivable that it was intended to be a fake fake (yes, that's what I meant) bomb. It is also conceivable that it was something that was mistaken for a fake bomb.


Once again, if you give the school officials every possible benefit of the doubt, it becomes similar to the case where a kid was suspended for chewing a pop tart into the shape of a gun. In that case, it wasn't a gun. No one could have possibly suspected it was a gun. However, it was somehow still considered a replica of a gun, violating the replica weapons policy. That's stupid, because a symbol of a weapon is not a replica weapon.

Maybe, in this case, the clock was a symbolic representation of a weapon. Maybe, it was deliberately constructed to be a bomb-themed clock. i.e. a clock that was intended to be reminiscent of something that has been used as a replica bomb in a work of fiction.

If there is any policy that the school has in place that is so broad that it would cover this device, it is a stupid policy.

More likely, the policy doesn't cover this sort of device at all, but administrators are so eager to find violations of a policy that they misinterpret their own policy in such a way that it covers whatever they feel like it ought to cover on any given day.
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Old 17th September 2015, 07:50 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Mark6 View Post
Once they knew it was a nothing but a clock, "broader explanation" could only means "something we could charge him with". And I admire the kid keeping his cool and "maintaining it was a clock". Never give police a "broader explanation".
I'm not defending Ahmed's suspension or arrest, but according to the police, when they interrogated him he didnt tell them that it was made for an engineering project or that he brought it to school to show to his engineering teacher. I think that's what they mean about him not providing a "broader explanation".
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Old 17th September 2015, 07:53 AM   #189
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Oh my gods and monsters, are you serious?

Originally Posted by truethat View Post
He is still suspended because you are not supposed to bring things like that to school. There's a zero tolerance policy.
Citation please

Quote:
Again, the original teacher who saw the clock should have walked him down to the office and said "Hey Ahmed made this cool clock and we're going to turn it in now for him to pick up after school."

Had he done that none of this would have been an issue.

Instead the teacher told him to hide it from others and not show anyone. Then the boy gets "caught" with it in the bag. The reaction the boy had most likely contributed to the way it appeared to the English teacher. He seemed "busted" or "in trouble" and "nervous."

The other teacher told him it was something to be secretive about. He's a 14 year old kid, in interviews you can see that he's a pretty respectful kid. So it's clear that his reaction to being "caught" with something that the other teacher told him was wrong to have, most likely contributed to how he responded to the English teacher.
citation please that the engineering teacher told him to "hide" it


Quote:
Compare it to a kid bringing a pocket knife to school with him that his boy scout troop got over the weekend.

If a kid came up and showed you it in school, would you

A. Tell him, "hey this is cool but you can't have this in school. Let's take it to the principals office now."

or


B. Tell him to hide it in his bag and not show it to other teachers.

That's what caused the entire mess.

And again, the picture of him in handcuffs is absolutely ridiculous.
Invalid comparison as knives are specifically disallowed in schools and science projects are not
Quote:
The kid mentioned in the interview that he's thinking of changing schools. Smart move Ahmed, maybe some benefactor will pay for your education at a private school! I hope they do.
I don't. I hope he gets the best free education America can provide. That means leaving Texas.

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Old 17th September 2015, 07:55 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Come on, this line of reasoning is ridiculous. First up if the engineering teacher didn't think any thing was wrong with it, then why did he tell him not to show it to the other teachers?

Number 2 it doesn't appear that they thought it was a "real bomb' but more like a joke mock up bomb. Bomb experts chiming in that it doesn't look like a real bomb is irrelevant.

Number 3 a peanut butter sandwich is not normally considered a lethal weapon, but it can be lethal to even ONE STUDENT.

The policies are put in place to protect students, not to dodge teaching opportunities or to punish kids.

The engineering teacher was wrong.
I can't read minds so I don't know what the STEM teacher said or thought or why. If you want information on Randi's million dollar challenge I'm sure you can ask around.
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Old 17th September 2015, 07:58 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
I'm not defending Ahmed's suspension or arrest, but according to the police, when they interrogated him he didnt tell them that it was made for an engineering project or that he brought it to school to show to his engineering teacher. I think that's what they mean about him not providing a "broader explanation".
None of the reports I've seen lead me to that conclusion. All the reports I've seen lead me to the conclusion the cops were questioning him with preconceived notions to which he failed to conform, instead insisting he made a clock to make a clock. Which made him "passive aggressive."
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Old 17th September 2015, 08:27 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
I'm not defending Ahmed's suspension or arrest, but according to the police, when they interrogated him he didnt tell them that it was made for an engineering project or that he brought it to school to show to his engineering teacher. I think that's what they mean about him not providing a "broader explanation".
From what I've read, it sounds like the police wanted a "better" explanation than "I built a clock." Like, they can't conceive of somebody wanting to build a clock, when you can just buy one at a store for $10. Obviously, the kid was just trying to cause trouble. If you look at the environment the kid's living in, this does not seem like a stretch. If you read the article somebody posted earlier, you know that Irving's mayor regularly gives lectures on her belief that Muslims have secret Sharia courts, and they're using them to try to take over the US.

I commend him on being savvy enough to not say that it's an engineering project. I was under the impression that he'd built it on his own initiative, not as a school project. If that's the case, saying that it's an "engineering project" would be a mistake. The police would go to the teacher, ask him if he gave Ahmed the assignment, and when he said "No", they would return and say "You lied to us. That's perjury."
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Old 17th September 2015, 08:31 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
This child may or may not be a mechanical prodigy, but he was trying something new, something that his teacher had very likely encouraged in the past or he wouldn't have thought to bring it in to show that teacher.
Point of information - he's a high school freshman and school just started. It was entirely his own whim to try and impress his teacher in that fashion.
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Old 17th September 2015, 08:33 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
Invalid comparison as knives are specifically disallowed in schools and science projects are not
1. It was not a science project; it doesn't seem he even tried to show it to a science teacher

2. Non-functional lookalike weapons are specifically disallowed in schools, and as it seems the teachers and police considered it to be a "prop bomb" (rightly or wrongly), that's likely the rule he was disciplined under.
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Old 17th September 2015, 08:35 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Charles Stross suggests starting Bring a Clock to School Day.


Many years ago at secondary school I too built a clock using a couple of ICs and a small breadboard. Mine even had flashing red LEDs and yet no-one cried "bomb".
But, is any part of your real name Mohammed (or similar)?
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Old 17th September 2015, 08:36 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade View Post
commend him on being savvy enough to not say that it's an engineering project.
Ah, I was under the mistaken impression that it was a school assignment. So what I should have said was that, according to the police, Ahmed didn't tell them "I made it to impress my engineering teacher" or something similar.
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Old 17th September 2015, 08:47 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
1. It was not a science project; it doesn't seem he even tried to show it to a science teacher

2. Non-functional lookalike weapons are specifically disallowed in schools, and as it seems the teachers and police considered it to be a "prop bomb" (rightly or wrongly), that's likely the rule he was disciplined under.
1) A teacher tasked with teaching STEM isn't a science teacher. Good to know.
2) Ahmed never claimed it was anything but a clock. But he's just a kid, so we don't need to give his voice any respect. And he's Muslim so we can all agree he's probably lying.


And the reason he's not being charged for the hoax bomb accusation is . . .

Wait for it ......


It wasn't a hoax bomb but just a clock.
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Old 17th September 2015, 08:59 AM   #198
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I think it's safe to say RocketGirl won't be taking this to school any time soon
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Old 17th September 2015, 09:02 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
I think it's safe to say RocketGirl won't be taking this to school any time soon
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...pss42quhfi.jpg
Hey! I used to have a kit exactly like that!
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Old 17th September 2015, 09:11 AM   #200
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It interests me how often here in this section or in the politics section of the Forum certain people will go to any lengths to try to make their prior statements "right" in some way, any way, no matter what.

Now we are discussing whether any object that shows the time and has wires in it be should be considered a "fake" bomb, and thus is prohibited by school rules against apparent weapons.

1. Obviously if this clock was intended to be a fake bomb, it was a complete failure. There was no attempt to include shapes in or on it that look anything like explosives, cartoon, movie, or real. It looked like a digital clock in a box. And the kid never made any claims it was a bomb: he voluntarily showing it to his engineering teacher, took his advice to not show anyone else until the alarm went off, at which time the kid showed it was innoculous to his English teacher and stated quite correctly that it was a clock when asked by a long string of authority figures.

2. It simply looked like a clock mounted in a relatively plain pencil case that would appeal to most children. How did this plain box of a clock look anything more like a fake bomb than the typical alarm clock, except that the case was built at home? We all have equal or more dangerous looking clocks in our cars and next to our beds. I have count down timers at my work. Was the kid's clock counting down like a movie bomb? It was simply counting up and displaying time in common with any digital clock.

3. For all we know the engineering teacher told the kid to not show it around school because, like any cool object, it would be disruptive to most classroom environments, just as if I brought in a weak laser pointer or a cool autumn leaf. Even if the teacher feared others might think of it as a bomb, it was not likely that the engineering teacher himself thought it looked like a fake bomb, but probably because he feared that the other teachers were really stupid (the latter was proven correct unfortunately).

4. Pens and pencils are allowed in school, yet are clearly more able to be used as weapons than a clock. I don't think that school rules ban anything that a crazy stupid person might be able to interpret as a fake or real weapon. I hope not.

5. I personally am convinced that the race and religion of the poor boy played a critical role in the nature of the response. But even if that was not not the case: I agree that it was fair to ask the boy what the alarm sound in his backpack was coming from. It was fair, on seeing the object, to ask the boy what it was and even, perhaps, to ask him to open it (obviously no one thought it was a real bomb- that is not how they reacted at all). Once it was clear that is was just a clock, it might have even been reasonable to send it to the principal's office until the boy could pick it up at the end of the day. But that was not the reaction as soon as the English teacher saw it, and the rest of the school's was clownish and stupid (and probably racist). I am deeply sorry for what the boy was forced to experience.

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