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Old 17th September 2015, 09:18 AM   #201
Jrrarglblarg
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Hey! I used to have a kit exactly like that!
This one is mrs j's from back in the day. It suffers from the passage of time.

The Asian company that made it for Tandy owns the design of the cardboard panel/component layout and sells it with a different design of plastic chassis now. RocketGirl has one of those too.
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Old 17th September 2015, 09:23 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Point of information - he's a high school freshman and school just started. It was entirely his own whim to try and impress his teacher in that fashion.
Gee- high schoolers may try to impress other high schoolers and even their teachers. Hmm. I hope this doesn't happen very often. Do you think that it might even include how they dress, discuss their hobbies, possessions and family vacations with other students, how they seek to wave their hand to answer questions in class, or discussions of their grades with other students? I hope not: it seems so childish.

In the clock caper, it certainly seems as if the 14 year old was asking for it by being so much of an egoist! He should have been criminally charged for being a self-centered teenager (but do we have the room in the jails for all the guilty?).
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Old 17th September 2015, 09:25 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
I think it's safe to say RocketGirl won't be taking this to school any time soon
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...pss42quhfi.jpg
In common with many here, I had electronic kits just like that one. Darn- the components and wires would keep falling off the spring connectors!

But why is RocketGirl building a nuclear device?
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Old 17th September 2015, 09:29 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
In common with many here, I had electronic kits just like that one. Darn- the components and wires would keep falling off the spring connectors!

But why is RocketGirl building a nuclear device?
So she can take over the world, of course! She would run for president but she's only 10.
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Old 17th September 2015, 09:30 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Hey! I used to have a kit exactly like that!
I had one very similar! "150 (or some number, I forget) Electronics Projects" or something like that. Lots of fun, but over a couple of years I gradually misplaced wires until there weren't enough really to make use of the thing. Ah, well.
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Old 17th September 2015, 09:32 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Gee- high schoolers may try to impress other high schoolers and even their teachers. Hmm. I hope this doesn't happen very often. Do you think that it might even include how they dress, discuss their hobbies, possessions and family vacations with other students, how they seek to wave their hand to answer questions in class, or discussions of their grades with other students? I hope not: it seems so childish.
You seem to have inferred a judgment of some kind from my post; there was none intended.
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Old 17th September 2015, 09:35 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
You seem to have inferred a judgment of some kind from my post; there was none intended.
My apologies. It is difficult to read words on a page without some speculation as to the intent of the writer in writing them. Wrong of me to do so.
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Old 17th September 2015, 09:42 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
So she can take over the world, of course! She would run for president but she's only 10.
Wasn't your family enough of the world to take over (speaking only from my experience with my own kids).

Ten years old- good luck. It may get a bit interesting in the next few years, but it will calm down by the time she is twenty. Probably. At least she is likely to be away from home and you will not know of all the scary details.

Frankly my kids' adolescence was okay- a bit unsettling but not in any way as awful as some warned us.
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Old 17th September 2015, 09:43 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I had one very similar! "150 (or some number, I forget) Electronics Projects" or something like that. Lots of fun, but over a couple of years I gradually misplaced wires until there weren't enough really to make use of the thing. Ah, well.
I _may_ have mine still in storage somewhere. The only damage to it is a single resistor that I blew when I stupidly decided to plug the machine into the outlet instead of a battery.
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Old 17th September 2015, 09:54 AM   #210
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Question for the lawyers: Do the circumstances here qualify for a "false arrest" suit? The cops interrogated the kid without letting him call his parents, arrested him on some "hoax bomb" charge, handcuffed him and fingerprinted him. On the other hand, they were responding to a call from the school -- they didn't grab him off the street -- and he did have a gadget that scared them. So did they have probable cause for an arrest? Does he have grounds to win a suit?
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Old 17th September 2015, 10:26 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Question for the lawyers: Do the circumstances here qualify for a "false arrest" suit? The cops interrogated the kid without letting him call his parents, arrested him on some "hoax bomb" charge, handcuffed him and fingerprinted him. On the other hand, they were responding to a call from the school -- they didn't grab him off the street -- and he did have a gadget that scared them. So did they have probable cause for an arrest? Does he have grounds to win a suit?
IANAL, but I believe most if not all jurisdictions require that an underage person always be questioned with a parent or guardian present. 14 certainly qualifies as underage, so the police were very likely wrong in not waiting to question Ahmed until his parents were present.

ETA: This website seems to back me up on that:

Quote:
If the police arrest or detain a child and refuse the child’s request to call his parents or another adult, or to talk to an attorney, there can be more consequences than the child’s statements being kept out in court. The parents could file a complaint with the police department or local government against the officers or department involved. If the situation was particularly serious and the child was physically abused or deprived of food, water, or rest while being interrogated by police, the parents could file a lawsuit on behalf of the child for violation of the child’s civil rights.
I believe several reports indicated Ahmed requested to talk to his parents at least once and was denied that right.
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Old 17th September 2015, 10:34 AM   #212
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He absolutely should bring a suit. And weather he could win or not is irrelevant because the school and police would never let it get that far. Unless the mayor wants to go down with her Islamaphobia ship they will settle out of court.
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Old 17th September 2015, 11:44 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
5. I personally am convinced that the race and religion of the poor boy played a critical role in the nature of the response. But even if that was not not the case: I agree that it was fair to ask the boy what the alarm sound in his backpack was coming from. It was fair, on seeing the object, to ask the boy what it was and even, perhaps, to ask him to open it (obviously no one thought it was a real bomb- that is not how they reacted at all). Once it was clear that is was just a clock, it might have even been reasonable to send it to the principal's office until the boy could pick it up at the end of the day. But that was not the reaction as soon as the English teacher saw it, and the rest of the school's was clownish and stupid (and probably racist). I am deeply sorry for what the boy was forced to experience.
Of course it was!! Muslims have a MASSIVE image problem. ISIS doesn't help. The Many backwards countries governed by Islam don't help. 9/11 didn't help. Many people have a natural suspicion of Muslims. Yes it has over the top, stupid, ect. But it's going to continue to happen as long as the image problem exists.
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Old 17th September 2015, 11:54 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Caper View Post
Of course it was!! Muslims have a MASSIVE image problem. ISIS doesn't help. The Many backwards countries governed by Islam don't help. 9/11 didn't help. Many people have a natural suspicion of Muslims. Yes it has over the top, stupid, ect. But it's going to continue to happen as long as the image problem exists.
Nice excuse for bigotry, pal.

And it's impossible for someone to have a lower opinion of ISIS and company then I do.
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Old 17th September 2015, 11:59 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Caper View Post
Of course it was!! Muslims have a MASSIVE image problem. ISIS doesn't help. The Many backwards countries governed by Islam don't help. 9/11 didn't help. Many people have a natural suspicion of Muslims. Yes it has over the top, stupid, ect. But it's going to continue to happen as long as the image problem exists.
Exactly! It's just like segregation in America: blacks wouldn't have needed separate drinking fountains if they'd just stopped being ignorant filthy subhumans.

Blaming the victims of racism for the ignorant behavior of them racists is the most obvious, natural consequence of Muslims being such evil people. It's the rational response.
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Old 17th September 2015, 12:02 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Nice excuse for bigotry, pal.
I don't think it was an excuse as much as an explanation. It's expected that people are going to treat Muslims with suspicion, violence even, because of a perception that is forged by violent actions perpetrated by a small minority of them. That, and they're different. It's silly, but it's very human.
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Old 17th September 2015, 12:56 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
It interests me how often here in this section or in the politics section of the Forum certain people will go to any lengths to try to make their prior statements "right" in some way, any way, no matter what.

Now we are discussing whether any object that shows the time and has wires in it be should be considered a "fake" bomb, and thus is prohibited by school rules against apparent weapons.

1. Obviously if this clock was intended to be a fake bomb, it was a complete failure. There was no attempt to include shapes in or on it that look anything like explosives, cartoon, movie, or real. It looked like a digital clock in a box. And the kid never made any claims it was a bomb: he voluntarily showing it to his engineering teacher, took his advice to not show anyone else until the alarm went off, at which time the kid showed it was innoculous to his English teacher and stated quite correctly that it was a clock when asked by a long string of authority figures.

2. It simply looked like a clock mounted in a relatively plain pencil case that would appeal to most children. How did this plain box of a clock look anything more like a fake bomb than the typical alarm clock, except that the case was built at home? We all have equal or more dangerous looking clocks in our cars and next to our beds. I have count down timers at my work. Was the kid's clock counting down like a movie bomb? It was simply counting up and displaying time in common with any digital clock.

3. For all we know the engineering teacher told the kid to not show it around school because, like any cool object, it would be disruptive to most classroom environments, just as if I brought in a weak laser pointer or a cool autumn leaf. Even if the teacher feared others might think of it as a bomb, it was not likely that the engineering teacher himself thought it looked like a fake bomb, but probably because he feared that the other teachers were really stupid (the latter was proven correct unfortunately).

4. Pens and pencils are allowed in school, yet are clearly more able to be used as weapons than a clock. I don't think that school rules ban anything that a crazy stupid person might be able to interpret as a fake or real weapon. I hope not.

5. I personally am convinced that the race and religion of the poor boy played a critical role in the nature of the response. But even if that was not not the case: I agree that it was fair to ask the boy what the alarm sound in his backpack was coming from. It was fair, on seeing the object, to ask the boy what it was and even, perhaps, to ask him to open it (obviously no one thought it was a real bomb- that is not how they reacted at all). Once it was clear that is was just a clock, it might have even been reasonable to send it to the principal's office until the boy could pick it up at the end of the day. But that was not the reaction as soon as the English teacher saw it, and the rest of the school's was clownish and stupid (and probably racist). I am deeply sorry for what the boy was forced to experience.
I think the highlighted part is key. And given the less than stellar performance of the school and authorities in this case, there is no reason to believe that they have any clue, nor that their side of the story is anything other than trying to make them look less bad.
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Old 17th September 2015, 01:04 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I wonder how the story would have gone had he a whitey name...

Unheard.

Because it probably almost certainly wouldn't have happened
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Old 17th September 2015, 01:13 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
<snip>

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I wonder how the story would have gone had he a whitey name...

A good American name like McVeigh or Kaczynski.
Bad example. Until all the stupid things McVeigh did piled up to the point that he couldn't help but be caught it was imaginary ME terrorists that were taking the the rap for him. People who were only vaguely Arabic in appearance were harassed and assaulted.

Wearing a (Sikh ) turban became evidence of complicity.
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Old 17th September 2015, 01:43 PM   #220
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Wow2. Gonna give this a crack one by one:

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
This is a tough one to call. The school and the police obviously did not handle this well, but I’m leaning toward the kid setting them up.
HAHAHAHA, Seems our Little Genius is an even Bigger Genius than we all thought!

Quote:
In his video interview, he says he has made a bunch of electronic devices, but he wanted to make something simple to show his teacher. This wasn’t a school assignment or something a teacher asked him to do. He did it on his own and brought it in on his own to show off what he could do. If he had more complex things already built, why didn’t he bring one of those in to show the teacher? Why build something simple specifically to bring to school to show off when he already had better things built?
Bad kid, for using his out-of-school time to build a project not assigned by an adult. If it doesn't have to do with practicing on your own for the football or baseball team, he's wasting his time!

Or....maybe....just maybe....he actually has FUN building things that is not a specific school assignment. (I've built website for fun when I was in high school. And yes, I've showed a teacher a lesser complex website than others I've done in the past; specifically because there was a new skill or lesson involved in that less-complex project of mine that was not a part of a more complex project! Guess what: At the end of summer, I'm a dark-skinned Italian boy. I've been told, in recent years, I look like a light-skinned Muslim! )

Quote:
It looks like a movie bomb. There are pictures of it. It is in a case like a movie bomb. It has wires running around like a movie bomb. It has a digital clock read-out like a movie bomb. I think most people would say it looks like a movie bomb. He certainly should have recognized that it resembled a movie bomb.
Oh noes! It has wires! Run for the HIIIIILSSS@!!!!!

Quote:
And here’s the real kicker—he did! In his video interview, he says the case has a locking mechanism, but he did not use the lock because he “didn’t want to make it look like a threat” and instead used a cable to close it up “so that it won’t look that much suspicious”. So, before he even took it to school, he knew that the device could, in his own words, “look like a threat” and “look…suspicious” and even took actions because of that. Knowing that the device could appear as dangerous, he took it to school anyway.
Maybe because the kid is not stupid, and knows he looks like a Muslim....wait...he IS a Muslim...and he goes to public school in the Great State of Texas.

[/quote]


Bah, I've had enough already.....
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Old 17th September 2015, 01:49 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by Caper View Post
Of course it was!! Muslims have a MASSIVE image problem. ISIS doesn't help. The Many backwards countries governed by Islam don't help. 9/11 didn't help. Many people have a natural suspicion of Muslims. Yes it has over the top, stupid, ect. But it's going to continue to happen as long as the image problem exists.
Don't you think the teachers would have had a decent idea what the kid was like?

I suggest the teachers had to be seriously bigoted not to know enough about one of their students that he was into technology and not into jihadism.

It sounds like the mayor of the town isn't much better.

Irving Mayor Defends School And Cops, Doesn't Apologize For Arrest Of Muslim Teen Over Clock

What protocol says arrest the kid first, find out if there is actually a problem second?
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Old 17th September 2015, 01:54 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Yes, it's unfortunate but there are rules about zero tolerance policies in school.

Far too many people debate the way they are just blanketed rules. But they have to be, purely for the amount of time it would take and the amount of legal issues that would open up if it wasn't just a blanket policy.


The goal isn't to punish the child but to deter kids from bringing things in like this. That doesn't mean kids don't bring things in like this, they are KIDS after all. He doesn't know any better.

That's why I keep pointing out that the teacher is wrong.

And this is why also his suspension STILL STANDS. He's still suspended. Or did everyone miss that.

In my opinion the problem was his reaction to getting busted with it and how he came across to the English teacher. I believe this is because of the actions of the first teacher.

There was no reason for them to call the police. They could have simply suspended him.



ETA not a "clock" a home made device like that. So let's take it out of the "terrorism" arena for a second. Let's say Ahmed wasn't this super great engineer and he put together this wired up device and he's going over his friends house after school to work on it. Totally innocent. (as he was in this case) But a wire glitches and it sets of a spark that hits paper in his bag and sets the bag on fire.

It would create an issue that would interrupt the educational process for the day. They'd have to do a fire alarm and put it out, investigate what happened etc. All based on an innocent act by the kid. So just don't bring things like that to school guys, it's unnecessary and not the place.
"Not the place," for 'things like this!?" IT WAS AN EDUCATIONAL EXCERCISE, FOR CRISSAKES!

The kid brought it in to show his electronics teachers! There was nothing.....lemme repeat that again....NOTHING!....wrong whatsoever with what this kid did. Sure, it's just a 3 day suspension. As a pparent, I would fight tooth and nail against that suspension. It's the principal of the matters.

"Yeah, the kid didn't do anything wrong. But he's still going to be punished anyways, just because..."

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Old 17th September 2015, 01:57 PM   #223
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How is it that the Engineering Teacher failed to identify the device as a clock? I mean this is someone who is supposed to teach this sort of thing to kids right?
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Old 17th September 2015, 02:13 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
How is it that the Engineering Teacher failed to identify the device as a clock? I mean this is someone who is supposed to teach this sort of thing to kids right?
I could be wrong but I thought all the teachers were cool till he showed his English teacher.

They went psycho paranoid
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Old 17th September 2015, 02:29 PM   #225
Nihilianth
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Surely if anyone of the random adults involved had actually suspected it was any sort of bomb, the school would have been evacuated?

It appears not so I still don't understand needing the police.
^^^^^^^^^^This! Gawds, a person I work with saw the photo, and was like: "Yup. Looks like a bomb to me." At which point, her and I got into an argument about it. My point was, if it actually LOOKS LIKE A BOMB, THE SCHOOL SHOULD HAVE BEEN EVACUATED IMMEDIATELY! PERIOD!

Whatever teacher tries to claim it looked like a bomb, outta be fired for not notifying the office, and getting his or students the hell outta there.

Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
I'm not defending Ahmed's suspension or arrest, but according to the police, when they interrogated him he didnt tell them that it was made for an engineering project or that he brought it to school to show to his engineering teacher. I think that's what they mean about him not providing a "broader explanation".
That interrogation is both illegitimate, and highly illegal. Therefore, I do not consider it to be any evidence of anything.
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Old 17th September 2015, 02:37 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Don't you think the teachers would have had a decent idea what the kid was like?

I suggest the teachers had to be seriously bigoted not to know enough about one of their students that he was into technology and not into jihadism.
There's countless stories of buffoon administrators at schools suspending kids of all backgrounds for the silliest of things, so I don't see any particular reason to invoke bigotry as the explanation behind this particular act of stupidity. You don't have to be into jihadism to make a fake bomb. Bombs have been a concern for schools for several decades now.
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Old 17th September 2015, 02:43 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by ThunderChunky View Post
There's countless stories of buffoon administrators at schools suspending kids of all backgrounds for the silliest of things, so I don't see any particular reason to invoke bigotry as the explanation behind this particular act of stupidity. You don't have to be into jihadism to make a fake bomb. Bombs have been a concern for schools for several decades now.
But if you have a student who makes a clock, says it's a clock and you know the kid is a nerdy engineering type, where does the fake bomb threat even come from here? How did that even become an issue?

Was the school evacuated?
Did the kid joke it was a bomb?


I don't agree that a white kid with a briefcase clock would have been ignored. But I do think if a nerdy engineering type white kid told his teacher it was a clock he made, none of the rest would have happened.
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Old 17th September 2015, 02:54 PM   #228
Nihilianth
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Originally Posted by ThunderChunky View Post
There's countless stories of buffoon administrators at schools suspending kids of all backgrounds for the silliest of things, so I don't see any particular reason to invoke bigotry as the explanation behind this particular act of stupidity. You don't have to be into jihadism to make a fake bomb. Bombs have been a concern for schools for several decades now.
IT WASN'T A BOMB!
IT DID NOT RESEMBLE A BOMB!
IT WAS NOT A "HOAX BOMB!"

NEWS AT 11!
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Old 17th September 2015, 03:06 PM   #229
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I'm not american so could be totally wrong, but from viewing from the other side of the world it just looks like

Kid goes to school
Has pieces of plastic with wires hanging out of it
Shows everyone it is a clock
Goes to one teacher who realises
He ain't white. He is Muslim, so it must be a bomb
Cops turn up try to get him to say it is a fake bomb. He won't. Because it is a clock as he says
They don't bother evacuating the school and arrest him even though it is plainly a clock as he says
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Old 17th September 2015, 03:08 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by ThunderChunky View Post
There's countless stories of buffoon administrators at schools suspending kids of all backgrounds for the silliest of things, so I don't see any particular reason to invoke bigotry as the explanation behind this particular act of stupidity. You don't have to be into jihadism to make a fake bomb. Bombs have been a concern for schools for several decades now.
the news reports include the kid walking into the room of cops and one he didn't know said, "yeah, that's who I thought it was." Taken at face value that seems slightly pre judging.
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Old 17th September 2015, 04:03 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
the news reports include the kid walking into the room of cops and one he didn't know said, "yeah, that's who I thought it was." Taken at face value that seems slightly pre judging.
Yes, "face" value indeed!
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Old 17th September 2015, 04:20 PM   #232
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Old 17th September 2015, 04:55 PM   #233
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The whole zero tolerance based on "it looks like a fake weapon to me" is completely stupid. It results, time and time again, in students being suspended because of totally arbitrary and subjective things. Should a student be suspended for bringing one of these to school? Looks like a fake weapon to me... How about one of these... A Parker Pen? Yeah, pull the other one, I've seen James Bond movies, it's clearly a well disguised fake explosive assassination device!

Seriously. Why should anyone get suspended from school because of "Well it looks like a [fill in blank] to me"? Stupidity!


Now a couple of things for correction.....

The English Teacher (as far as we know) didn't do it. The English teacher confiscated the clock and put it on his/her desk. It was a few periods later when Ahmed was pulled from class to be arrested. Clearly the English teacher had shown it to someone else who then overreacted.

Second, it was not a briefcase. It was a pencil case.
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Old 17th September 2015, 06:01 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Second, it was not a briefcase. It was a pencil case.
For those who don't have kids and don't pay attention to what sort of school supplies are popular these days:

Pencil cases like this are all the rage with school kids right now. They are about 8 inches by 4 inches by two inches, hard-sided, with hinges, latches, and handles, little corner things made of metal, many of them are entirely made of metal. They look a bit like briefcases, only much much smaller.

The only difference was that this one had a digital display.

Probably half of the kids in the school have them, maybe more. The non-nerd, non-geek kids use them to store pencils, pens, drugs, knives, cell phones* and the other accouterments of high school life.


*Now a cell phone really can be used as a detonator. They ought be arresting kids with cell phones**.


**The nerd and geek kids could have informed the school authorities of that, if the school authorities were not so busy getting the geeky nerd*** kid arrested.

***In my world, getting called a geek or a nerd is a compliment. It really is, I hope to god my kids grow up to be geeky nerds.

http://www.vaultz.net/school/shop-cl...d-pouches.html

Last edited by crescent; 17th September 2015 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 17th September 2015, 06:11 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I don't think it was an excuse as much as an explanation. It's expected that people are going to treat Muslims with suspicion, violence even, because of a perception that is forged by violent actions perpetrated by a small minority of them. That, and they're different. It's silly, but it's very human.
Oddly I have had no problem being friendly with everyone of them I have ever actually met. More oddly there is no race with which I have ever been unfriendly. Now, as to the ones known to want to harm all of us I believe I am on record rather prominently here!!! BTW I actually do have friends who are republicans. We avoid politics and religion in discussions!!
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Old 17th September 2015, 06:17 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by ThunderChunky View Post
There's countless stories of buffoon administrators at schools suspending kids of all backgrounds for the silliest of things, so I don't see any particular reason to invoke bigotry as the explanation behind this particular act of stupidity. You don't have to be into jihadism to make a fake bomb. Bombs have been a concern for schools for several decades now.
How many of them went off? In the US of course? I ask as I am mighty certain that I know the answer.
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Old 17th September 2015, 06:22 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
the news reports include the kid walking into the room of cops and one he didn't know said, "yeah, that's who I thought it was." Taken at face value that seems slightly pre judging.
Repeated for emphasis. The kid had never seen the cop before but the cop knew the was an EVIL MUSLIM TERRORIST in the school already.
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Old 17th September 2015, 06:51 PM   #238
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Tiger Lenticular Display Pencil Box, Sold Out.

I was hoping for entertaining customer reviews.
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Old 17th September 2015, 06:59 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
the news reports include the kid walking into the room of cops and one he didn't know said, "yeah, that's who I thought it was." Taken at face value that seems slightly pre judging.
The police claim the cop said, "that's not who I thought it was."

I can see the mistake.

But the police chief could not explain why if they thought it was a bomb they didn't evacuate the school, nor why the boy's parents weren't called.
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Old 17th September 2015, 07:01 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Tiger Lenticular Display Pencil Box, Sold Out.

I was hoping for entertaining customer reviews.
It looks so much more briefcase size in the news picture. Thanks for the link.
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