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Old 18th September 2015, 11:55 AM   #281
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Desert Fox View Post
Is bringing that up useful to any reasonable conversation?

I assume you are posting it because this is a Conservative Christian argument, ignoring their own issues?
It;s a bigoted argument from ignorance,frankly,and a lot of Conservative Christians are very guilty of those faults.
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Old 18th September 2015, 11:56 AM   #282
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The thing on Facebook now is some kid who made a "rebuttal" video criticizing Obama for inviting the guy to the White House. He's like, "If I made a clock and brought it to school, could I go to the White House, too?"

Nice straw man, of course. But hey, republicans are wetting themselves all over it.
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Old 18th September 2015, 12:10 PM   #283
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Catsmate (quote function not working for me today)
Now it seems that paragon of sensible decision making Bristol Palin objects to President Obama's invitation:
"This is the kind of stuff Obama needs to STAY out of". and "This encourages more racial strife that is already going on with the 'Black Lives Matter' crowd and encourages victimhood. The police made a mistake, clearly. But why put more people against them? Why egg it on? Childish games like this from our president have divided our country… even more today than when he was elected."
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that (though maybe the first half of the last sentence, second half makes no sense), but it is interesting how Obama selects the "victims" he invites to the White House. A Muslim kid built a clock, whoopee. If you fit into his personal politics appropriately you get the invitation. There are people in national news that have suffered much more - Kate Steinle's family for example. Nope, that wouldn't fit in with his push for everyone to accept illegal aliens. No invitation - not even a phone call.

I don't think this event makes the police look bad, I think this is the result of the irrational fear that permeates our society. The police knew it wasn't a bomb immediately. Remember the 7 year-old kid who made his Pop Tart resemble a gun by chewing on it? He has a suspension on his record, but no invitation to the White House. He was just an innocent kid like Clock Boy.

The whole "invitation to the White House" practice is kind of silly anyways, for the most part. It's always political.
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Old 18th September 2015, 12:15 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Loved this.

Best bit written by a vicar!
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Old 18th September 2015, 12:22 PM   #285
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Whoops! Took a pressure cooker in to school cookery lesson now on my way to Gitmo.
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Old 18th September 2015, 12:29 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
But if you have a student who makes a clock, says it's a clock and you know the kid is a nerdy engineering type, where does the fake bomb threat even come from here? How did that even become an issue?

Was the school evacuated?
Did the kid joke it was a bomb?


I don't agree that a white kid with a briefcase clock would have been ignored. But I do think if a nerdy engineering type white kid told his teacher it was a clock he made, none of the rest would have happened.
They didn't accuse him of making a bomb threat they accused him of trying to make a fake bomb, they knew it wasn't actually a bomb. They thought it looked like a bomb..not really different than if a kid brought a toy gun to school. You wouldn't evacuate the school over a toy gun, but the kid would probably get into pretty big trouble given how much over reaction occurs in public schools. I'm not saying the situation wasn't absolutely ridiculous. But equally ridiculous situations have happened to white students, that's why I see no reason to invoke anti-mulsim bigotry.
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Old 18th September 2015, 12:34 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that (though maybe the first half of the last sentence, second half makes no sense), but it is interesting how Obama selects the "victims" he invites to the White House. A Muslim kid built a clock, whoopee. If you fit into his personal politics appropriately you get the invitation. There are people in national news that have suffered much more - Kate Steinle's family for example. Nope, that wouldn't fit in with his push for everyone to accept illegal aliens. No invitation - not even a phone call.

I don't think this event makes the police look bad, I think this is the result of the irrational fear that permeates our society. The police knew it wasn't a bomb immediately. Remember the 7 year-old kid who made his Pop Tart resemble a gun by chewing on it? He has a suspension on his record, but no invitation to the White House. He was just an innocent kid like Clock Boy.

The whole "invitation to the White House" practice is kind of silly anyways, for the most part. It's always political.
Palin's comment reminds me of the 1960s quotes from segregationist legislators and governors: "Them kneegrows are happy here. Why many of them feel right attached to the white families who they serve as maids and shoeshine boys. It's them outside agitators who create all the problems by stirring them kneegrows up. We'd all just get along fine if it wasn't for those outsiders creating problems!"

As to your view: sure, there are other kids who have been punished unjustly. But I would remind everyone that (1) the clock looked like a clock, and was never meant to look even like a cartoon bomb, (2) the cops obviously took it seriously as a crime, if only as the crime of creating a false weapon with the idea of terrorizing people. The cops arrested the 14 year old in handcuffs, prevented him from speaking to his parents, threatened him with jail, and questioned him for over an hour, (3) I think that it very difficult to not equate the overreaction on the part of the school and the police with the religion and ethnicity of the boy. Can I prove it- of course not- no official is going to say now that they did it from bigotry. But that is the way to bet in my opinion.

I would finally add that being punished for doing something scientific and ambitious in an environment designed to encourage such efforts deserves a bit more Presidential attention than biting a Poptart into the shape of a gun. This is not to say that the latter deserves punishment, but it is not like the former. Even more so if the punishment was almost clearly due to racial and religious bigotry.
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Old 18th September 2015, 12:35 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that (though maybe the first half of the last sentence, second half makes no sense), but it is interesting how Obama selects the "victims" he invites to the White House. A Muslim kid built a clock, whoopee. If you fit into his personal politics appropriately you get the invitation. There are people in national news that have suffered much more - Kate Steinle's family for example. Nope, that wouldn't fit in with his push for everyone to accept illegal aliens. No invitation - not even a phone call.

I don't think this event makes the police look bad, I think this is the result of the irrational fear that permeates our society. The police knew it wasn't a bomb immediately. Remember the 7 year-old kid who made his Pop Tart resemble a gun by chewing on it? He has a suspension on his record, but no invitation to the White House. He was just an innocent kid like Clock Boy.

The whole "invitation to the White House" practice is kind of silly anyways, for the most part. It's always political.
I don't think this kid was an illegal alien, and I don't think the pop tart kid was marched out in handcuffs.
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Last edited by fagin; 18th September 2015 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 18th September 2015, 12:43 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by ThunderChunky View Post
They didn't accuse him of making a bomb threat they accused him of trying to make a fake bomb, they knew it wasn't actually a bomb. They thought it looked like a bomb..not really different than if a kid brought a toy gun to school. You wouldn't evacuate the school over a toy gun, but the kid would probably get into pretty big trouble given how much over reaction occurs in public schools. I'm not saying the situation wasn't absolutely ridiculous. But equally ridiculous situations have happened to white students, that's why I see no reason to invoke anti-mulsim bigotry.
But they only thought it looked like a bomb because they were stupid, and IMHO, racist and bigoted. Yes, it is very different from bringing in a toy gun- a toy gun is meant to look somewhat like a gun. Here with the 14 year old it wasn't intended to look at all like a bomb, in fact it didn't look like a bomb (fake or real) and the boy, when asked, explained that it wasn't either a fake or real bomb. It lacked the most crucial component of any bomb, fake or real- anything that looked like explosives. He brought in a clock! It looked like a clock. It showed time like a clock. It was a clock. He explained it was a clock. Yet for some reason the principal and the police it looked like a (fake) bomb. I wonder what that reason might have been...

An example: if I bring in a fully normal umbrella to school and someone thinks it looks like a sword because they have no idea what a sword looks like, should I be arrested and suspended as a consequence? What if someone thinks that my Nikes look like shoe bombs- not for any real reason, just that shoes look like shoe bombs to them? Or my pencils look like knives, again because that person has no clue what the real things look like?
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Old 18th September 2015, 12:46 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
I don't think this kid was an illegal alien, and I don't think the pop tart kid was marched out in handcuffs.
I missed that in the actual post. Thanks! Exactly why does this issue bring up illegal aliens in the post fagin quoted?
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Old 18th September 2015, 12:48 PM   #291
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Question

Originally Posted by ThunderChunky View Post
They didn't accuse him of making a bomb threat they accused him of trying to make a fake bomb, they knew it wasn't actually a bomb. They thought it looked like a bomb..not really different than if a kid brought a toy gun to school. You wouldn't evacuate the school over a toy gun, but the kid would probably get into pretty big trouble given how much over reaction occurs in public schools. I'm not saying the situation wasn't absolutely ridiculous. But equally ridiculous situations have happened to white students, that's why I see no reason to invoke anti-mulsim bigotry.
It's not the same as bringing a toy gun to school. If you bring a toy gun, you are intentionally bringing a toy gun. This is like bringing a slide rule and being suspended because someone thinks it looks like a gun.
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Old 18th September 2015, 12:52 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Whoops! Took a pressure cooker in to school cookery lesson now on my way to Gitmo.
Sorry, but it did look like real a bomb to me. One can't be too careful. And I am certain that eventually this little issue will get clearred up after a bit of... questioning... at Gitmo. And then they might release you.. to Sudan.

Just a quick question: on a scale of 1 to 10 how dark is your skin? Of course that has nothing to do with if you get an A in cooking or spend some time in Cuba. Your answer to the skin question vs your treatment would only be a coincidence.
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Old 18th September 2015, 12:55 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
It's not the same as bringing a toy gun to school. If you bring a toy gun, you are intentionally bringing a toy gun. This is like bringing a slide rule and being suspended because someone thinks it looks like a gun.
Slide rules reminded me of retractable knives, and did anyone else notice that calculators also look a bit like bombs?

I still remember log tables at the backs of math books. Now those were dangerous!
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Old 18th September 2015, 01:00 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
The whole "invitation to the White House" practice is kind of silly anyways, for the most part. It's always political.
Politicians are supposed to be political. That's kind of the point.

The President, in particular, has a "bully pulpit". Part of his job is to make symbolic statements that encourage people to do the things he wants them to do, to adopt the values he thinks ought to be the country's values.

In this case he is encouraging science while chastising overreactions, especially overreactions which an awful lot of people think are based on bigotry.


Should "pop tart boy" have gotten an invite? If he had been handcuffed, fingerprinted, and had a mug shot taken, he very well might have gotten one. However, perhaps not, because while there was an overreaction to the pop tart incident, it wasn't something that we necessarily want to encourage. We shouldn't care very much if kids chew pop tarts into the shape of a gun and use it as a toy, but we do want kids to wire up electric circuits in novel ways.
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Old 18th September 2015, 01:37 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Politicians are supposed to be political. That's kind of the point.

The President, in particular, has a "bully pulpit". Part of his job is to make symbolic statements that encourage people to do the things he wants them to do, to adopt the values he thinks ought to be the country's values.

In this case he is encouraging science while chastising overreactions, especially overreactions which an awful lot of people think are based on bigotry.


Should "pop tart boy" have gotten an invite? If he had been handcuffed, fingerprinted, and had a mug shot taken, he very well might have gotten one. However, perhaps not, because while there was an overreaction to the pop tart incident, it wasn't something that we necessarily want to encourage. We shouldn't care very much if kids chew pop tarts into the shape of a gun and use it as a toy, but we do want kids to wire up electric circuits in novel ways.
As the boy is a minor, were the police entitled to question him without representatives?
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Old 18th September 2015, 01:37 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Politicians are supposed to be political. That's kind of the point.

The President, in particular, has a "bully pulpit". Part of his job is to make symbolic statements that encourage people to do the things he wants them to do, to adopt the values he thinks ought to be the country's values.

In this case he is encouraging science while chastising overreactions, especially overreactions which an awful lot of people think are based on bigotry.


Should "pop tart boy" have gotten an invite? If he had been handcuffed, fingerprinted, and had a mug shot taken, he very well might have gotten one. However, perhaps not, because while there was an overreaction to the pop tart incident, it wasn't something that we necessarily want to encourage. We shouldn't care very much if kids chew pop tarts into the shape of a gun and use it as a toy, but we do want kids to wire up electric circuits in novel ways.
And pop tart gun kid had a history of disruptive behavior and disciplinary problems:
Quote:
Nussbaum wrote: “As much as the parents want this case to be about a ‘gun,’ it is, rather, a case about classroom disruption from a student who has had a long history of disruptive behavior and for whom the school had attempted a list of other strategies and interventions before resorting to a suspension.”

Nussbaum said he was convinced that “had the student chewed his cereal bar into the shape of a cat and ran around the room, disrupting the classroom and making ‘meow’ cat sounds, the result would have been exactly the same.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...6bd_story.html
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Old 18th September 2015, 02:42 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Slide rules reminded me of retractable knives, and did anyone else notice that calculators also look a bit like bombs?

I still remember log tables at the backs of math books. Now those were dangerous!
I think the 'passive aggression' may mean he mentioned evolution. I think I mentioned evolution once (in Texas), but I think I got away with it.


Whoops! No on the way to hell. (And you have no idea how annoying that is since I only just escaped from a demon dimension.)
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Old 18th September 2015, 02:51 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by ThunderChunky View Post
They didn't accuse him of making a bomb threat they accused him of trying to make a fake bomb, they knew it wasn't actually a bomb. They thought it looked like a bomb..not really different than if a kid brought a toy gun to school. You wouldn't evacuate the school over a toy gun, but the kid would probably get into pretty big trouble given how much over reaction occurs in public schools. I'm not saying the situation wasn't absolutely ridiculous. But equally ridiculous situations have happened to white students, that's why I see no reason to invoke anti-mulsim bigotry.
They had about a half dozen cops for what was obviously a clock.

I think your average "white" kid wouldn't be treated so stupidly

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Old 18th September 2015, 02:52 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
As the boy is a minor, were the police entitled to question him without representatives?
I'm not sure why you are asking me this. I don't see the connection to my post.

According to posts earlier in the thread, a minor is entitled to ask for his parents, who then are supposed to be called. I have no idea if that's accurate, but they did post some reference material on the subject.
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Old 18th September 2015, 02:54 PM   #300
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Old 18th September 2015, 02:55 PM   #301
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I don't know about there but I think it is law here they have to have a guardian
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Old 18th September 2015, 03:12 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I'm not sure why you are asking me this. I don't see the connection to my post.

According to posts earlier in the thread, a minor is entitled to ask for his parents, who then are supposed to be called. I have no idea if that's accurate, but they did post some reference material on the subject.
I wasn't asking you in particular.

Your post prompted my chain of thought.

It seems that as well as being arrested for something that was no crime he might have not been treated properly once arrested, which again gives more reason compared to the other boy.
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Old 18th September 2015, 03:31 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Christians really have the right to talk when it comes to religous violence........

That's because they haven't done as much.

... umm ... recently ...

...umm ... in as many places ...

... umm ...

... or something.
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Old 18th September 2015, 03:33 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I wasn't asking you in particular.

Your post prompted my chain of thought.

It seems that as well as being arrested for something that was no crime he might have not been treated properly once arrested, which again gives more reason compared to the other boy.
Makes sense. Yes, it just seems like they were multiple kinds of stupid on that day.
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Old 18th September 2015, 03:42 PM   #305
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Black kid makes a VLOG saying inviting kid to the White House is because because Obama supports Muslims.

Turns out the kid is a Ted Cruz shill.

Thirteen year-old CJ Pearson went off on Obama after the far left president invited a Muslim student to White House after his arrest.
Quote:
Pearson notes that while the kid got an open invite from Obama, the families of gunned down cops and those killed by illegal immigrants are simply ignored.
Black lives matter backlash and all those murderous Mexicans anyone?

Last July: YouTube sensation CJ Pearson switches endorsement from Rand Paul to Ted Cruz

CRUZ NAMES CJ PEARSON AS NATIONAL CHAIRMAN OF “TEENS FOR TED”
I wonder if it's a paid position?
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Old 18th September 2015, 03:48 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Black kid makes a VLOG saying inviting kid to the White House is because because Obama supports Muslims.

Turns out the kid is a Ted Cruz shill.

Thirteen year-old CJ Pearson went off on Obama after the far left president invited a Muslim student to White House after his arrest.
Black lives matter backlash and all those murderous Mexicans anyone?

Last July: YouTube sensation CJ Pearson switches endorsement from Rand Paul to Ted Cruz

CRUZ NAMES CJ PEARSON AS NATIONAL CHAIRMAN OF “TEENS FOR TED”
I wonder if it's a paid position?

The first line after the video in the link is "From the mouths of babes-"


Let me fill in that for them, "From the mouths of babes come repetitions of stupid things they heard from their parents."
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Old 18th September 2015, 04:02 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
But they only thought it looked like a bomb because they were stupid, and IMHO, racist and bigoted. Yes, it is very different from bringing in a toy gun- a toy gun is meant to look somewhat like a gun. Here with the 14 year old it wasn't intended to look at all like a bomb, in fact it didn't look like a bomb (fake or real) and the boy, when asked, explained that it wasn't either a fake or real bomb. It lacked the most crucial component of any bomb, fake or real- anything that looked like explosives. He brought in a clock! It looked like a clock. It showed time like a clock. It was a clock. He explained it was a clock. Yet for some reason the principal and the police it looked like a (fake) bomb. I wonder what that reason might have been...

An example: if I bring in a fully normal umbrella to school and someone thinks it looks like a sword because they have no idea what a sword looks like, should I be arrested and suspended as a consequence? What if someone thinks that my Nikes look like shoe bombs- not for any real reason, just that shoes look like shoe bombs to them? Or my pencils look like knives, again because that person has no clue what the real things look like?
A bomb can take many shapes and forms. A fake bomb is hypothetically anything that can be mistaken for a bomb, and this is contraption fits the bill. It certainly doesn't look like any normal clock. Leave something like this on the subway or at the next boston marathon and observe the reaction. I think there is a fair chance people would be concerned. Again, there's plenty of examples of school administrators over reacting when white kids are involved. I still have not seen anyone give a compelling reason for invoking bigotry. You're argument is simply that people could not be so stupid in its absence, but we know they can be. I think the narrative of the bigotry angle is attractive, but I don't see any actual evidence to support it.
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Old 18th September 2015, 04:08 PM   #308
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The actual evidence would appear to be the lack of any realistic response to it being a bomb.
And the dramatic over reaction if they thought it was a fake one.
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Old 18th September 2015, 04:28 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that (though maybe the first half of the last sentence, second half makes no sense), but it is interesting how Obama selects the "victims" he invites to the White House. A Muslim kid built a clock, whoopee. If you fit into his personal politics appropriately you get the invitation. There are people in national news that have suffered much more - Kate Steinle's family for example. Nope, that wouldn't fit in with his push for everyone to accept illegal aliens. No invitation - not even a phone call.

I don't think this event makes the police look bad, I think this is the result of the irrational fear that permeates our society. The police knew it wasn't a bomb immediately. Remember the 7 year-old kid who made his Pop Tart resemble a gun by chewing on it? He has a suspension on his record, but no invitation to the White House. He was just an innocent kid like Clock Boy.

The whole "invitation to the White House" practice is kind of silly anyways, for the most part. It's always political.
Considering the stigma here involving bombs and Muslims it does make a stronger statement.
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Old 18th September 2015, 04:35 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
The actual evidence would appear to be the lack of any realistic response to it being a bomb.
And the dramatic over reaction if they thought it was a fake one.
I like the every cop in town wants to be there to get that Muslim touch

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Old 18th September 2015, 04:40 PM   #311
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I think we need to get really serious to this fake bomb threat. It is well known that the 7/7 bombers used backpacks to disguise their bombs which were liquid filled containers triggered by a cell phone. I hereby suggest that if we want to be truly serious about this danger to our schools, then any kid that brings a backpack with both a container holding a liquid, and a cell phone, inside it, they need to be arrested and dealt to for bringing a potential bomb into the school. It's the only way to truly keep our kids safe!
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Old 18th September 2015, 04:45 PM   #312
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A couple of guys I work with said that the kid should have known better to carry something that looked like a bomb, especially since the kid is Muslim. I told them that it is easy for them to think so because they are white.
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Old 18th September 2015, 04:48 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I think we need to get really serious to this fake bomb threat. It is well known that the 7/7 bombers used backpacks to disguise their bombs which were liquid filled containers triggered by a cell phone. I hereby suggest that if we want to be truly serious about this danger to our schools, then any kid that brings a backpack with both a container holding a liquid, and a cell phone, inside it, they need to be arrested and dealt to for bringing a potential bomb into the school. It's the only way to truly keep our kids safe!

You're missing the point.

It's the ones that don't look like fake bombs that we have to crack down on.
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Old 18th September 2015, 04:53 PM   #314
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The weird bit is they go mental over this at the same time as multiple school massacres by white kids
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Old 18th September 2015, 04:57 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by ThunderChunky View Post
A bomb can take many shapes and forms. A fake bomb is hypothetically anything that can be mistaken for a bomb, and this is contraption fits the bill. It certainly doesn't look like any normal clock. Leave something like this on the subway or at the next boston marathon and observe the reaction. I think there is a fair chance people would be concerned. Again, there's plenty of examples of school administrators over reacting when white kids are involved. I still have not seen anyone give a compelling reason for invoking bigotry. You're argument is simply that people could not be so stupid in its absence, but we know they can be. I think the narrative of the bigotry angle is attractive, but I don't see any actual evidence to support it.
It looks very much like a clock- it is a clock! In fact a poster was complaining that it looked too much like a normal alarm clock to be a "real" electronics project.

Leave something like this on a subway and some cop might look at it and assure themselves it was just a clock. If you were carrying it on the subway, the police might ask "What's that?" If you told them it is a clock, they might at most ask you to open it. I can't imagine being arrested for it. Let alone a 14 year old boy.

You don't believe it was bigotry? Sure. Okay. But I do.
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Old 18th September 2015, 05:00 PM   #316
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He repeatedly told them it was a clock

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Old 18th September 2015, 05:03 PM   #317
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Schools have been nuts for a while now with the paranoia.

It's out of hand, but I see no effort or way to go back to the days when I was in school, when kids were just kids, your pocket knife was just your pocket knife, and your water pistol just got confiscated and returned at the end of the year.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/04/us/ohi...ed-finger-gun/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_6813864.html
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 18th September 2015, 05:05 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
He repeatedly told them it was a clock

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Sure...we all know the bomb was a separate part, hidden and waiting...
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Old 18th September 2015, 05:08 PM   #319
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The craziest thing I have heard....

"It looks like the triggering device for an IED!"

Well dah!. What is the usual triggering device for an IED? A timer? What's another word for a Timer? Oh, perhaps... a clock?
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Old 18th September 2015, 05:08 PM   #320
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Like in Die Hard 3.

Check the coke machines!!
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