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Old 18th September 2015, 05:12 PM   #321
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Sure...we all know the bomb was a separate part, hidden and waiting...

I think you're onto something here.

Obviously a sort of bait and switch tactic. He made the doesn't-look-like-a-fake-bomb clock to distract everyone from the real fake bomb that he didn't want anyone to find out about.

Diabolical.

I think it may be worse than that. No fourteen yr. old could come up with such a complex and subtle plot.

Al Qaeda!!!???!?!?
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Old 18th September 2015, 05:13 PM   #322
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Judging by the reaction he got, it was a pretty good fake bomb.
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Old 18th September 2015, 05:15 PM   #323
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Except it wasn't
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Old 18th September 2015, 05:18 PM   #324
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I graduated high school in 1985.

I'm fairly certain I could have brought a much better "bomb" to school with no fear of anyone calling the police and no worry about being suspended.

The things that will get you in trouble at school these days just blows my mind.

I would have been arrested once a week...
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Old 18th September 2015, 05:20 PM   #325
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Fire crackers alone.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 18th September 2015, 05:59 PM   #326
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In high school I took an empty pineapple grenade to hand someone as a joke. Afterward I was in a stairwell trying to put the pin back in. My hands were shaking because I'd been laughing so hard. Vice principle came up and saw me, I showed the open bottom to him and said "it's not real" and he let me go about my business.

Ah, the 80s.

In fairness he was probably on his way to the ROTC room again, where the female cadets tended to get in knife fights.
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Old 18th September 2015, 06:17 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
In Hollywood bombs always have a clock or a countdown timer on them, in real life they have nothing of the sort.
Ahmed's device didn't have a red wire, so it didn't look like a fake bomb.
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Old 18th September 2015, 06:19 PM   #328
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Google this phrase
"Reverse Engineering Ahmed Mohamed’s Clock… and Ourselves"
(I can''t paste URLs)


Quote:
Did Ahmad Really Build a DIY Clock, Or Did He Just Take a Commonly-Available Radio Shack Alarm Clock Out of Its Case and Stick It In a Pencil-Box?


And if so, in what sense is this an "invention," let alone one worth showing of to anybody?

You know what bothered me? That he kept calling this 'his invention." Anyone with any kind of science knowledge would know he had not made "an invention." He would say "my experiment" or "my DIY clock." He wouldn't keep claiming that he "invented" something that has been on the market for like 50 years.
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Old 18th September 2015, 06:22 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by ThunderChunky View Post
I still have not seen anyone give a compelling reason for invoking bigotry.
And you never will.
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Old 18th September 2015, 06:23 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Judging by the reaction he got, it was a pretty good fake bomb.
When I was 9 me and my brother made a fake bomb and pretended we had found it in the cupboard in a house we were moving into that day.

Strange to relate, but my Mum did not calmly put it in a drawer and go on with what she was doing.

No, she screamed and grabbed us all and started heading for the door to get us all outside.

That is how you react when something looks like a bomb.

Me and my brother made a pretty good fake bomb.

Ahmed made a clock.
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Old 18th September 2015, 06:28 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
A couple of guys I work with said that the kid should have known better to carry something that looked like a bomb, especially since the kid is Muslim. I told them that it is easy for them to think so because they are white.
It's amazing what people will say to rationalize their mistakes, or their friends' mistakes.

"Ah, well of course they knew it wasn't a bomb, but the kid should have known that even though they knew it wasn't a bomb, they would still know that other people might think it looked like something that was supposed to look like a bomb, and the kid should have known that they would react that way if they saw a Muslim kid carrying something that was obviously not a bomb but could be mistaken for something that was meant to look like a bomb.

Dumb kid!"
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Old 18th September 2015, 06:31 PM   #332
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http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/...and-ourselves/

http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/.../09/clock1.jpg

I agree with this blogger. This looks like a commercial clock, taken apart and put in the case, not anything made or invented by this kid.
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Old 18th September 2015, 06:32 PM   #333
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The whole incident may have been orchestrated by the kids father to gain notoriety. The "clock" was a box with wires hanging out of it and to appearances it could well have been a bomb.
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Old 18th September 2015, 06:41 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The craziest thing I have heard....

"It looks like the triggering device for an IED!"

Well dah!. What is the usual triggering device for an IED? A timer? What's another word for a Timer? Oh, perhaps... a clock?
Errr, no, no it doesn't. Trust me; I've seen numerous pictures of IEDs, both with and without timers; the small alarm clocks or wristwatches are much more likely timers than a relatively large LED clock.

For reference, I have worked extensively in the recent past at an agency that required me to be aware of as many types of IEDs as I could be. An example of a likely IED with a timer:



Another:



I'm fairly sure that I have never seen an example of an IED using an LED clock outside of a movie.
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Old 18th September 2015, 06:41 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
The whole incident may have been orchestrated by the kids father to gain notoriety. The "clock" was a box with wires hanging out of it and to appearances it could well have been a bomb.
Doesn't a bomb need like... something that goes bang?
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Old 18th September 2015, 06:48 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
Errr, no, no it doesn't. Trust me; I've seen numerous pictures of IEDs, both with and without timers; the small alarm clocks or wristwatches are much more likely timers than a relatively large LED clock.
Having looked it up, it seems that the majority of IEDs probably use cell phones as triggers nowadays.
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Old 18th September 2015, 07:01 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
The whole incident may have been orchestrated by the kids father to gain notoriety. The "clock" was a box with wires hanging out of it and to appearances it could well have been a bomb.
That's what I am leaning towards. A media stunt of some sort.
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Old 18th September 2015, 07:05 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/...and-ourselves/

http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/.../09/clock1.jpg

I agree with this blogger. This looks like a commercial clock, taken apart and put in the case, not anything made or invented by this kid.
And?

Seriously. What is the point?

That a 14 year old rearranged the guts of a clock and called it an invention? That it was more art than science? So what? I'm at a loss to see what people are thinking here.

Ok. So he made a case mod of a clock, and called it a clock. I'll go one better. I'm thinking he may very well have known, and may very well have intended, that people would see it and think "bomb". Now, he made sure that people would know that it wasn't a bomb. He immediately showed it to a teacher to say, "This is a clock. Check it out." So, there was absolutely zero chance that anyone would think he had a bomb, and, this is important, no one did, in part because he made sure they wouldn't.

Let's step back a moment. Why does this matter? Because he was accused of building a hoax bomb. A key part of a hoax is that it is meant to be believed. It is not a crime to build a fake bomb. It is not a crime to build something that looks like a bomb. It is not a crime to build something that reminds someone of a bomb. The law says a "hoax" bomb for a reason. In order for it to be a hoax, you have to do it in such a way that someone might believe you. He clearly did not intend for anyone to think it was a bomb, and they clearly didn't think it was a bomb. In other words, there was absolutely zero evidence that any crime was committed, and yet he was arrested, handcuffed, and interrogated.

So, once again, giving them every possible benefit of the doubt, they're idiots. If we give them every possible benefit of the doubt, then we would see that the kid built a device that would make people nervous, and play on their fears. He made sure that no one would possibly think that it was actually a bomb. He went out of his way to ensure that there was no bomb hoax in any way associated with the device. Nevertheless, he knew they would be nervous and irritated, because here was this Muslim kid running around saying "I do not have a bomb." He knew that would freak them out because any time a Muslim says anything, they figure he might be a lying weasel and maybe he really did have a bomb. In other words, he was playing a childish prank, to expose their bigotry and make them look stupid.

That's giving them the benefit of every possible doubt. If that was his intention, it worked. They fell for it hook, line, and sinker, and were exposed as idiots. He proved that even if he showed up with a clock, and told people to inspect his clock, and let people see that it was a clock, they would still freak out about the Muslim kid with the electronics. Well played, Ahmed. It worked.

And, if that wasn't your plan? If you just made a case mod of a clock because you thought it was cool? Then the authorities are just plain idiots. They weren't taken in by a clever plan. They just bumbled into looking stupid.
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Old 18th September 2015, 07:07 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by Grey2000 View Post
Google this phrase
"Reverse Engineering Ahmed Mohamed’s Clock… and Ourselves"
(I can''t paste URLs)
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/...and-ourselves/

http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/.../09/clock1.jpg

I agree with this blogger. This looks like a commercial clock, taken apart and put in the case, not anything made or invented by this kid.
And you others
The surest way to kill imagination and innovation in children is to denigrate the "inventor" from a point of superior age, education, and experience.
You want to encourage, not put-down, a kid.
Yes, he "Invented" this clock. He recased it, on his own, by taking it apart, moving it, and reassembling it into a different form factor, by himself. Without adult hovering supervision and direction.
I was doing the same thing with radios and stereos at his age, and making different speaker cabinets, as well as different antennas, trying to improve performance.
Now I do random vibration and acoustic analysis for a living, 50 years down the road.
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Old 18th September 2015, 07:12 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Having looked it up, it seems that the majority of IEDs probably use cell phones as triggers nowadays.
Depends on the desired effect. Some IEDs are made with almost no mechanical parts beyond the necessary wires connecting from the detonator and explosive to the trigger mechanism, some are more complex. It basically boils down to how close the maker wants to be to his creation when it explodes, and there are countless ways to make that happen. Cell phones certainly are capable of being used as a trigger and you'll find them a decent amount of the time, but I don't think I'd call it a majority by any stretch.
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Old 18th September 2015, 07:30 PM   #341
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So now people are going to dis the kid? Is he being admired for being an engineering genius?

He was falsely accused, not falsely praised.
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Old 18th September 2015, 07:35 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
And?

Seriously. What is the point?

That a 14 year old rearranged the guts of a clock and called it an invention? That it was more art than science? So what? I'm at a loss to see what people are thinking here..
It is reverse engineering. People are trying to reverse engineer the incident so that it is okay to suspend and arrest the kid because he claimed it was an invention and maybe it wasn't.

It was never about a hoax bomb, it was about a false claim of inventing something. Drink the Flavor-Aide, and believe.
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Old 18th September 2015, 07:49 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
That's what I am leaning towards. A media stunt of some sort.
I'd be cautious about agreeing with certain posters who have been known to employ very dry sarcasm unless that is your goal too.
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Old 18th September 2015, 07:49 PM   #344
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Years ago, when I was a kid, I made a radio (Crystal Set) and took it to school. See below (which is not the one I made)

Would this be mistaken for a Bomb if I told my teacher it was just a radio?



Norm
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Old 18th September 2015, 07:50 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Yeah- the two things that Obama and this kid clearly have in common, no matter the many attempts to deny it:

They are both geeks. And skinny.
foreststars.jpg
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Old 18th September 2015, 08:00 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Years ago, when I was a kid, I made a radio (Crystal Set) and took it to school. See below (which is not the one I made)

Would this be mistaken for a Bomb if I told my teacher it was just a radio?

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...CrystalSet.jpg

Norm
That depends. Are you a brown person?
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Old 18th September 2015, 08:00 PM   #347
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I too see this need among certain people to make the kid the bad guy in all this: He intended it to look like a bomb. Or his father did. Even if they were so bad at it it looks like a clock. And of course it was just being protective of the other kids to arrest him. And it's not such a great invention anyway-it 's just a re-cased clock. And it's his fault for trying to get attention for his academic interests. He listened to his engineering teacher and kept it in his backpack but shouldn't have. Or maybe he should have hidden it better.

Well, he is just a 14year old geek. He is probably not a genius, but his skills are not that different from what mine were at his age. And now I have a career as a researcher. So give the poor guy some support: he was handcuffed and arrested for bringing a clock project to school and telling his teachers about it. And if you wanted to grumble about something, you may want to grumble about his arrest, not for being a 14 year old geek.
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Old 18th September 2015, 08:04 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
And you others
The surest way to kill imagination and innovation in children is to denigrate the "inventor" from a point of superior age, education, and experience.
You want to encourage, not put-down, a kid.
Yes, he "Invented" this clock. He recased it, on his own, by taking it apart, moving it, and reassembling it into a different form factor, by himself. Without adult hovering supervision and direction.
I was doing the same thing with radios and stereos at his age, and making different speaker cabinets, as well as different antennas, trying to improve performance.
Now I do random vibration and acoustic analysis for a living, 50 years down the road.
Exactly! The kid did a much better job than I would have at his age. Or perhaps even now.

I like the double think of some: well it looked like a bomb, and it was too identical to a commercial clock!?!
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Old 18th September 2015, 08:18 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
And?

Seriously. What is the point?

That a 14 year old rearranged the guts of a clock and called it an invention? That it was more art than science? So what? I'm at a loss to see what people are thinking here.
I’ve already said what I am thinking: He had existing electronics projects that he could have brought in to show his teacher, but instead just rearranged clock in case to look somewhat like a bomb (a “suspicious” “threat” to use his own words) because he knew some teachers would freak out over this “innocent” project and expose their racism and Islamophobia. It worked. Much better than I think he could have ever hoped.

Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Ok. So he made a case mod of a clock, and called it a clock. I'll go one better. I'm thinking he may very well have known, and may very well have intended, that people would see it and think "bomb". Now, he made sure that people would know that it wasn't a bomb. He immediately showed it to a teacher to say, "This is a clock. Check it out." So, there was absolutely zero chance that anyone would think he had a bomb, and, this is important, no one did, in part because he made sure they wouldn't.

Let's step back a moment. Why does this matter? Because he was accused of building a hoax bomb. A key part of a hoax is that it is meant to be believed. It is not a crime to build a fake bomb. It is not a crime to build something that looks like a bomb. It is not a crime to build something that reminds someone of a bomb. The law says a "hoax" bomb for a reason. In order for it to be a hoax, you have to do it in such a way that someone might believe you. He clearly did not intend for anyone to think it was a bomb, and they clearly didn't think it was a bomb. In other words, there was absolutely zero evidence that any crime was committed, and yet he was arrested, handcuffed, and interrogated.
There was no crime committed, which is why the police did not charge him with anything. He was arrested (or at least detained, I’m not sure if he was actually arrest), handcuffed, and interrogated because the school reported the device to the police and when the police investigate this suspicious device he refused to explain his intentions, he he built it, and why he brought it to school.

He would only say that it was a clock. The police could clearly see that it was a clock. But it was a clock that clearly some people in some circumstances might perceive to be a bomb. So the police wanted to know what he was up to. He wouldn’t tell them. So they took him downtown until they could sort out what was going on. Once they figured things out, they let him go and determined no charges would be filed because he did not have intentions to use the device to cause alarm.

If he had told the police right away that he was into electronics and had made a homemade clock to show his skills to his engineering teacher and talk to him about staring an electronics or robotics club, I expect the officers would have checked out his story and soon sent him back to class without incident. But he didn’t do that. In fact, it appears the police found out more about this case through newspaper reports than they did from their own interrogation.

Why did he not tell the police all of this when they asked in order to prevent this whole incident, while he so willingly and readily told all of it to the press?
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Old 18th September 2015, 08:33 PM   #350
Noztradamus
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
That's what I am leaning towards. A media stunt of some sort.
The preferred term is "Art Project"
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Old 18th September 2015, 08:42 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
That's what I am leaning towards. A media stunt of some sort.
What, the kid and/or his father were expecting the school and police to act the way they did?

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
Why did he not tell the police all of this when they asked in order to prevent this whole incident, while he so willingly and readily told all of it to the press?
Maybe the police phrased their questions in a way that he didn't get their point? Maybe he was rattled because they would neither let him talk to his father nor let his father be present during the questioning?
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Old 18th September 2015, 08:53 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
Why did he not tell the police all of this when they asked in order to prevent this whole incident, while he so willingly and readily told all of it to the press?
Because he now lives in a free country, and in a free country you are not compelled to do something just because a cop thinks you ought to. In a free country the police cannot interrogate you on a whim. They have to be investigating a crime, and there was no evidence of any crime. He did not claim to have a bomb, and they had enough information to verify that he had gone out of his way to ensure that they knew it was not a bomb. Therefore, by definition, there was no hoax.

He does not owe the police, or the media, or the populace, or you and the rest of us on ISF any explanation of his behavior. He did not commit a crime, and the police knew he did not commit a crime.

This isn't hard. They cuffed, and fingerprinted, and took mug shots of this kid. They isolated him, without access to his parents or an attorney. If cops can do that to people just because people don't answer their questions to their satisfaction, then this country is not free.
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Old 18th September 2015, 09:00 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
The preferred term is "Art Engineering Project"
ftfy

And engineering project a 14 yr old might construct.
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Old 18th September 2015, 10:03 PM   #354
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The kid is 14. What do you expect. Nanotechnolgy

Kid rearranged an existing clock which obviously is still a clock and half the police force went to catch the Muslim
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Old 18th September 2015, 10:20 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
The preferred term is "Art Engineering Project"
ftfy

And engineering project a 14 yr old might construct.
original was better. It's always an "Art Project" not a "Social Engineering Project" when a fiction is created to highlight a "concern"

http://jezebel.com/emma-sulkowiczs-n...sex-1709234401

http://www.ubspectrum.com/article/20...or-art-project
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Old 18th September 2015, 10:42 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
original was better. It's always an "Art Project" not a "Social Engineering Project" when a fiction is created to highlight a "concern"

http://jezebel.com/emma-sulkowiczs-n...sex-1709234401

http://www.ubspectrum.com/article/20...or-art-project
I don't think the kid was highlighting a political concern nor creating a fiction when he made his clock project. He was making (remaking) a clock. But maybe the clock represents the oppression of women in a racist society and I missed the point. I can be pretty obtuse: my teacher told me that Moby Dick is symbolic, but I thought it was a book about a whale.
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Old 18th September 2015, 10:49 PM   #357
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Way to try to justify ganging up on a 14 year old and trying to dig up dirt

Next dad will have only gone to Muslim shops
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Old 18th September 2015, 10:57 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Way to try to justify ganging up on a 14 year old and trying to dig up dirt

Next dad will have only gone to Muslim shops
Yeah- psst-i heard that his dad was a (don't tell anyone) a Democrat!
And that his mom once had an overdue book at the library!
And that the kid has a Jabba the Hut toy because Jabba is a "white slaver"

They should all just be deported because they aren't TRUE AMERICANS! They are just low-down foreign immigrants. Like my grandparents. But darker.
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Old 18th September 2015, 10:57 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
I’ve already said what I am thinking: He had existing electronics projects that he could have brought in to show his teacher, but instead just rearranged clock in case to look somewhat like a bomb (a “suspicious” “threat” to use his own words) because he knew some teachers would freak out over this “innocent” project and expose their racism and Islamophobia. It worked. Much better than I think he could have ever hoped.



There was no crime committed, which is why the police did not charge him with anything. He was arrested (or at least detained, I’m not sure if he was actually arrest), handcuffed, and interrogated because the school reported the device to the police and when the police investigate this suspicious device he refused to explain his intentions, he he built it, and why he brought it to school.

He would only say that it was a clock. The police could clearly see that it was a clock. But it was a clock that clearly some people in some circumstances might perceive to be a bomb. So the police wanted to know what he was up to. He wouldn’t tell them. So they took him downtown until they could sort out what was going on. Once they figured things out, they let him go and determined no charges would be filed because he did not have intentions to use the device to cause alarm.

If he had told the police right away that he was into electronics and had made a homemade clock to show his skills to his engineering teacher and talk to him about staring an electronics or robotics club, I expect the officers would have checked out his story and soon sent him back to class without incident. But he didn’t do that. In fact, it appears the police found out more about this case through newspaper reports than they did from their own interrogation.

Why did he not tell the police all of this when they asked in order to prevent this whole incident, while he so willingly and readily told all of it to the press?
You've never been "interviewed" by cops with preconceived notions, I take it.
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Old 18th September 2015, 11:19 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Yeah- psst-i heard that his dad was a (don't tell anyone) a Democrat!
And that his mom once had an overdue book at the library!
And that the kid has a Jabba the Hut toy because Jabba is a "white slaver"

They should all just be deported because they aren't TRUE AMERICANS! They are just low-down foreign immigrants. Like my grandparents. But darker.
I'm worse than that. I'm a white native-born American who voted for a Muslim running for president.
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