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Tags Brilliant Light Power , free energy , Randell Mills

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Old 26th April 2017, 07:04 AM   #1
Myriad
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Brilliant Light Power Going To Market - Free Energy Generator Part 2

Mod Info This is a continuation of this thread.. As usual the split point is arbitrary an participants may freely quote from the previous iteration.
Posted By:Agatha



Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
If I take a huge parabolic mirror or use a lens to concentrate incident solar radiation 1000 times on to the surface of a pv cell, the incident radiation per meter on the surface of that cell is no longer 1.4kW/m. So why are you arguing as if this is still the case? These cells are built to deal with megawatts of power per meter.

Oh dear, it appears michaelsude (and very possibly Mills too) is under the impression that a concentrator solar array is something like a solar panel that you can blast with already concentrated solar radiation (like, by sticking it in the middle of one of those multi-acre arrays of solar tracking mirrors) to convert lots of power without damage. Oops!

My question for Mills is: What kinds of control and actuator mechanisms are used to keep the streams of molten silver precisely aligned with one another when the cell is operating in a vehicle that can accelerate, brake, and turn? Please describe the development path and anticipated schedule of this subsystem.
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Last edited by Agatha; 26th April 2017 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 26th April 2017, 07:54 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
with 1m2 that's also roughly a sphere of radius of 28 cm if fully closed. If it is only a dome like the Graphite dome, then it is a dome/half sphere : 2*pi*r2=1 => 40 cm of height and 80 cm diameter/40 cm radius. Not bad for a block motor.... Hope you don't need much palce for anything else.
I'm assuming both the graphite dome and the spherical PV array are full spheres.
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Old 26th April 2017, 08:06 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
If I take a huge parabolic mirror or use a lens to concentrate incident solar radiation 1000 times on to the surface of a pv cell, the incident radiation per meter on the surface of that cell is no longer 1.4kW/m. So why are you arguing as if this is still the case? These cells are built to deal with megawatts of power per meter.
But then the cells are spaced out at the centers of those large mirrors or lenses, with wide gaps between them for cooling. Mills wants to pack them together with no gaps between them. Where's the cooling?
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Old 26th April 2017, 08:07 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
But then the cells are spaced out at the centers of those large mirrors or lenses, with wide gaps between them for cooling. Mills wants to pack them together with no gaps between them. Where's the cooling?
The magical radiator that somehow manages to disperse the massive amount of heat without interfering with collecting light from the glowing dome.
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Old 26th April 2017, 08:48 AM   #5
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BLPcars: We have a great new engine technology. It is going to revolutionize automotive travel. We just need a little more funding to bring it to market.

Customer: Great! When can I see it running?

BLPcars: Currently we are focused on developing new tire technology. You see our engine generates so much torque that conventional tires just cannot handle it. We just need a little more funding to bring it to market.

Customer: But I want to see the new engine perform. When can you show me that?

BLPcars: Right after we finish developing new headlights. Cars with our engine are going to travel so fast that you will need to see much further ahead on the road for safety. We just need a little more funding to bring it to market.

Customer: But what about the new engine?

BLPcars: We only have a few more things to accomplish first. You will need better seats because of all the time you are going to want to be driving. Once we have those ready we will be ready for our first attempt at starting up the new engine. We just need a little more funding to bring it to market.

Customer: What? You haven't even start it yet!

BLPcars: Although "conventional" engineering says our design will never work, we are extremely confident in our chief engineer. He has a doctorate in philosophy! Plus, we have verified that the engine actually turns when attached to a starter motor. We just need a little more funding to bring it to market.
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Old 26th April 2017, 09:18 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
BLPcars: We have a great new engine technology. It is going to revolutionize automotive travel. We just need a little more funding to bring it to market.

Customer: Great! When can I see it running?

BLPcars: Currently we are focused on developing new tire technology. You see our engine generates so much torque that conventional tires just cannot handle it. We just need a little more funding to bring it to market.

Customer: But I want to see the new engine perform. When can you show me that?

BLPcars: Right after we finish developing new headlights. Cars with our engine are going to travel so fast that you will need to see much further ahead on the road for safety. We just need a little more funding to bring it to market.

Customer: But what about the new engine?

BLPcars: We only have a few more things to accomplish first. You will need better seats because of all the time you are going to want to be driving. Once we have those ready we will be ready for our first attempt at starting up the new engine. We just need a little more funding to bring it to market.

Customer: What? You haven't even start it yet!

BLPcars: Although "conventional" engineering says our design will never work, we are extremely confident in our chief engineer. He has a doctorate in philosophy! Plus, we have verified that the engine actually turns when attached to a starter motor. We just need a little more funding to bring it to market.
You forgot the peanut gallery of fans making fun of people who believe internal combustion engines work, claiming the new engine already works fine and that multiple scientists have independently proven the engine works.
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Old 26th April 2017, 09:30 AM   #7
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Just putting these here so Michael can't miss them:

Originally Posted by michaelsuede
If I take a huge parabolic mirror or use a lens to concentrate incident solar radiation 1000 times on to the surface of a pv cell, the incident radiation per meter on the surface of that cell is no longer 1.4kW/m. So why are you arguing as if this is still the case? These cells are built to deal with megawatts of power per meter.
I hope you never attempt to work in a lab in any building that I'm in. Of course if you concentrate the sun's 1.4kW/m2 with a 1000 sun array, then the peak power density on the silicon will be 1.4MW/m2, but the area illuminated will be 1000 times less than the total collection area of array, so that the mean power density will still be 1.4kW/m2. But in the idiotic application, the mean power density will have to be about 230kW/m2 (depending on its area) which means that the array will be absorbing 165 times more power per unit area than it is exposed to in its normal solar application. Passive cooling will not work. And what's worse the peak power density on the silicon will be 230MW/m2. Ouch!

Oh - and here's something else. Let's say the graphite dome is 25cm in diameter, so about 0.195m2 in surface area. Let's say it's heated to 3500K to avoid it sublimating away. The the Stefan-Boltzmann radiation formula gives a total radiated power of 1.7MW, all of which heat will have to be dissipated somehow. Because you're running the dome at a reddish temperature, the radiance will peak in the infrared and only about 14% of the power will be in the visible. The mean total radiance on the PV cells will be 1.7MW/m2, assuming an array with 1 m2 area (over 1,000 times the solar case). For a passively cooled system, assuming the cell array is itself radiating as a blackbody, the equilibrium temperature of the array would be about 2350K. That's not going to be good. For a 1000 sun system, you then have a peak power density on the silicon of 1.7GW/m2. Ouch, ouch, ouch!

If the reaction doesn't produce 1.7MW of power then a dome of that size will not get to 3500K.

You can reduce the power output by making the dome smaller, but then you have to engineer all the gubbins inside the dome, molten silver and all into a smaller dome. Or you can run the dome at a lower temperature where the PV cells are even less sensitive and you throw away even more heat.

The steam engine is looking ever so attractive.

Last edited by hecd2; 26th April 2017 at 09:33 AM. Reason: typo and superscripts
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Old 26th April 2017, 10:10 AM   #8
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I still feel your analogy is meaningless given we are talking about a dense receiver array that will be cooled using an active cooling solution. My point in bring up the passive abilities of the chips was simply to demonstrate they are capable of dealing with megawatt power levels without melting. Active cooling solutions, such as jet impingement/micro-channel cooling, are capable of dealing with the heat build up. I never said BrLP planned on using a passive cooling solution.

Just eye-balling it, the diameter of the dome is closer to 15 cm rather than 25. You can get a good look at it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omUSfYuVT1c

BrLP plans on running it at 3000K for the first build outs.

Last edited by michaelsuede; 26th April 2017 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 26th April 2017, 10:12 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
I still feel your analogy is meaningless given we are talking about a dense receiver array that will be cooled using an active cooling solution. My point in bring up the passive abilities of the chips was simply to demonstrate they are capable of dealing with megawatt power levels without melting. Active cooling solutions, such as jet impingement/micro-channel cooling, are capable of dealing with the heat build up. I never said BrLP planned on using a passive cooling solution.

Just eye-balling it, the diameter of the dome is closer to 15 cm rather than 25. You can get a good look at it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omUSfYuVT1c
Active cooling? So more moving parts in the no moving parts generator?
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Old 26th April 2017, 10:16 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
Active cooling? So more moving parts in the no moving parts generator?
Are you suggesting inconsistencies in the claims about BLP engineering????

Inconceivable!
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Old 26th April 2017, 10:18 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
Active cooling? So more moving parts in the no moving parts generator?
The reactor has no moving parts. The generator has a few moving parts.

Water pump
Vacuum pump
Fans
And possibly moving parts in the startup and leveling system

Last edited by michaelsuede; 26th April 2017 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 26th April 2017, 10:56 AM   #12
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How much will the PV cells used in the SunCell weigh?

We have already seen your 13kw example where the PV cells weigh about a ton, give or take.
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Old 26th April 2017, 10:59 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
The reactor has no moving parts. The generator has a few moving parts.

Water pump
Vacuum pump
Fans
And possibly moving parts in the startup and leveling system
And the switch to keep the power on... but really soon we will engineer out the need for the input energy... honest!
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Old 26th April 2017, 11:00 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
How much will the PV cells used in the SunCell weigh?

We have already seen your 13kw example where the PV cells weigh about a ton, give or take.
We have a contradiction here from what markie says and what MS says. One has told us they are not currently developing the photoev version of the generator, one says they are still developing it.
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Old 26th April 2017, 11:10 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
We have a contradiction here from what markie says and what MS says. One has told us they are not currently developing the photoev version of the generator, one says they are still developing it.
http://brilliantlightpower.com/video...ell-injectors/

April 13th 2017:

Quote:
The photovoltaic cells and cooling technology of the photovoltaic converter have been designed and are in the initial testing phase.
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Old 26th April 2017, 11:19 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
The reactor has no moving parts. The generator has a few moving parts.

Water pump
Vacuum pump
Fans
And possibly moving parts in the startup and leveling system
That doesn't seem like fewer moving parts than a steam generator:

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Old 26th April 2017, 11:32 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
The reactor has no moving parts.

Correct. It has "burning up spectacularly" parts instead.
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Old 26th April 2017, 12:14 PM   #18
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Has anyone mentioned that the melting point of silicon is 1687 K?
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Old 26th April 2017, 12:14 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
We have a contradiction here from what markie says and what MS says. One has told us they are not currently developing the photoev version of the generator, one says they are still developing it.
I don't know where Markie is getting his info from, but every presentation BrLP has ever given they've talked about doing PV.

The latest media packet from BrLP they gave me is the first time I've heard of them doing anything other than PV, and they still intend to do PV along side the development of it's use as a boiler.
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Old 26th April 2017, 12:15 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That doesn't seem like fewer moving parts than a steam generator:
You're forgetting the condenser rig that would be required.

And you're ignoring the epic weight of the equipment involved.

That picture also makes no mention of the turbines required.

Last edited by michaelsuede; 26th April 2017 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 26th April 2017, 12:16 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
I still feel your analogy is meaningless given we are talking about a dense receiver array that will be cooled using an active cooling solution. My point in bring up the passive abilities of the chips was simply to demonstrate they are capable of dealing with megawatt power levels without melting. Active cooling solutions, such as jet impingement/micro-channel cooling, are capable of dealing with the heat build up. I never said BrLP planned on using a passive cooling solution.

Just eye-balling it, the diameter of the dome is closer to 15 cm rather than 25. You can get a good look at it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omUSfYuVT1c

BrLP plans on running it at 3000K for the first build outs.
OK let's run the numbers for 15cm diameter and 3000K. That results in a total power output of about 325kW, and assuming a surface area of 1m2 for the PV array, we have an incident power density of 325kW/m2 or about 230 times more than an array in the solar application. The maximum power density at the focus of a 1000 sun system is 325MW/m2.

At 3000K (peak of the BB spectrum at about 966nm in the medium IR) only 26kW or about 8% is in the visible and so the top layer (biggest bandgap) of the multijunction cell will be generating very little energy. Across 400nm to 1100nm you have only 1/3 of the energy or about 110kW. The electrical efficiency will be below 40%, so this cell will produce about 30kW electrical power with a following wind and you'll have to deal with 300kW of waste heat by, what you now claim, would be active cooling. It makes no sense.
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Old 26th April 2017, 12:19 PM   #22
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I still have no questions for Mills in my inbox.
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Old 26th April 2017, 12:21 PM   #23
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Brilliant Light Power Going To Market - Free Energy Generator Part 2

Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
I still have no questions for Mills in my inbox.
No, but quite a few have been posted in the thread.

How much did you invest in BLP?

How about you ask him what cooling system he's going to use to vent the 300kW of waste heat?

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Old 26th April 2017, 12:22 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by jsfisher View Post
Has anyone mentioned that the melting point of silicon is 1687 K?
Using the numbers Michael gave us (3000K and 15cm diameter dome), the equilibrium temp of the array with passive cooling would be about 1550K. But now he says there's active cooling which has to take away 300kW or enough to provide heating and hot water for five good sized houses. It's bonkers.
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Old 26th April 2017, 12:27 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
I don't know where Markie is getting his info from, but every presentation BrLP has ever given they've talked about doing PV.

The latest media packet from BrLP they gave me is the first time I've heard of them doing anything other than PV, ...
Why did they start with the PV design? Why not concentrate on first getting the reactor done, sell reactor for use in heating and powering steam engines, then use the profits from those sales to research how to do the PV version?
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Old 26th April 2017, 12:29 PM   #26
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Water has been suggested as the source of the hydrogen. How is the hydrogen purified to be free of any oxygen and then delivered into the graphite chamber? (Or does the hydrogen generation take place inside the chamber?)

In what is the graphite chamber contained to isolate it from the surrounding air? (Or is the chamber "air cooled" from the outside?)
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Old 26th April 2017, 12:29 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by hecd2 View Post
OK let's run the numbers for 15cm diameter and 3000K. That results in a total power output of about 325kW, and assuming a surface area of 1m2 for the PV array, we have an incident power density of 325kW/m2 or about 230 times more than an array in the solar application. The maximum power density at the focus of a 1000 sun system is 325MW/m2.

At 3000K (peak of the BB spectrum at about 966nm in the medium IR) only 26kW or about 8% is in the visible and so the top layer (biggest bandgap) of the multijunction cell will be generating very little energy. Across 400nm to 1100nm you have only 1/3 of the energy or about 110kW. The electrical efficiency will be below 40%, so this cell will produce about 30kW electrical power with a following wind and you'll have to deal with 300kW of waste heat by, what you now claim, would be active cooling. It makes no sense.
You certainly know how to troll... "what I now claim" as if I ever claimed anything different.

I'm not sure what doesn't make sense to you. Systems exist that can deal with the heat.
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Old 26th April 2017, 12:51 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
You certainly know how to troll... "what I now claim" as if I ever claimed anything different.
Can I remind you of what you said:

Quote:
The waste heat isn't a problem that can't be solved.

Like these production PV cells:
https://www.bsqsolar.com/technology/

Those are cooled using passive radiators. BrLP doesn't even need to bother with a passive system, giving them even greater cooling potential. The waste heat is a non-issue.
Your example was solar panels receiving 230 times less power density than Mills nonsense. And the panels weigh over a ton for 13kW output. And you said that BLP doesn't even need to bother with a passive system. You keep saying the waste heat is a non-issue when that is clearly not so and everyone can see that what you're doing is handwaving it away.

Quote:
I'm not sure what doesn't make sense to you. Systems exist that can deal with the heat.
It's an engineering kludge - using less than 10% of the energy produced and having to run an active cooling system to deal with more than 90%, which active system will itself need power and further degrade the efficiency. And you keep handwaving away the fact that if you're using high concentrator PV cells the peak power density is several hundred times the design specification for solar radiation.
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Old 26th April 2017, 12:52 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
You certainly know how to troll... "what I now claim" as if I ever claimed anything different.



I'm not sure what doesn't make sense to you. Systems exist that can deal with the heat.


Got any examples that are compact enough to put In a car?
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Old 26th April 2017, 01:06 PM   #30
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For using the device to power a car, if the source of hydrogen is water:
  1. How much is the efficiency decreased from needing to use power generated by the device to break the oxygen-hydrogen bonds in the water?
  2. How many gallons of water will it take to, for instance, drive a car 60 miles at 60 MPH on a freeway?
  3. Would a car's water tank need to be larger to make similarly long trips compared to the gas tanks for gas powered cars, or could the water tank be made smaller?
  4. Would tap/municipal water need to be purified to prevent chlorine and minerals from degrading the graphite dome?
If the source of hydrogen isn't water but compressed hydrogen gas, then why not use either an internal combustion engine or fuel cells to power the car?
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Old 26th April 2017, 01:14 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by hecd2 View Post
Can I remind you of what you said:



Your example was solar panels receiving 230 times less power density than Mills nonsense. And the panels weigh over a ton for 13kW output. And you said that BLP doesn't even need to bother with a passive system. You keep saying the waste heat is a non-issue when that is clearly not so and everyone can see that what you're doing is handwaving it away.

It's an engineering kludge - using less than 10% of the energy produced and having to run an active cooling system to deal with more than 90%, which active system will itself need power and further degrade the efficiency. And you keep handwaving away the fact that if you're using high concentrator PV cells the peak power density is several hundred times the design specification for solar radiation.

Yeah, as in they can use an active system that's far more compact and efficient at removing waste heat. I'm not sure how you could possibly interpret that statement to mean I said they were using passive cooling.

Throwing away energy doesn't matter when it costs next to nothing to produce. Who cares? Cooling solutions exist that can deal with the heat.

That said, the first use of the reactor in a production environment will be for heating water according to the latest BrLP timeline.
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Old 26th April 2017, 02:11 PM   #32
Hans
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MS: A question for Mills

Ask him for an accounting of the last 30 years use of the raised money in particular the percentage used for research and development versus salaries and bonuses for the employees of the BLP and its many predecessors.
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Old 26th April 2017, 02:19 PM   #33
Squeegee Beckenheim
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It's probably worth PMing michaelsuede the questions as well as posting them in this thread and posting that you have PMed him. Only posting them in this thread allows him to say "I didn't get any questions so I didn't ask any".
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Old 26th April 2017, 02:36 PM   #34
Matthew Cline
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Questions that I PM'd him:

1) Why did they start with the PV design? Why not concentrate on first getting the reactor done, sell reactor for use in heating and powering steam engines, then use the profits from those sales to research how to do the PV version?

2) Has BLP had any discussions with the EPA or other governmental regulatory agencies to make sure that sales of the devices aren't put on hold while biological/medical/environmental research is done into short term and long term exposure to hydrinos? Or does Mills think that the fact that none of the researchers exposed for years to hydrinos means that regulatory agencies will give the greenlight to sales without any clinical research/experiments being done?
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Old 26th April 2017, 02:47 PM   #35
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Hmmm, wouldn't any sort of electric power generator require FCC certification?

The FCC has a rule that you cannot offer for sale (e.g. as in a contract to deliver units to some utility company) for a device that requires FCC certification before the device has been certified. And the device cannot be certified until you have a working as-to-be-delivered unit available for certification tests.
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Old 26th April 2017, 02:50 PM   #36
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
You're forgetting the condenser rig that would be required.

And you're ignoring the epic weight of the equipment involved.

That picture also makes no mention of the turbines required.
Just as you are hand-waving away the cooling required for the photovoltaic system.

And, you say it's impossible, but this article disagrees. The company that that article mostly talks about, Cyclone Power, already has several contracts in place, including with the military. They've won engineering awards, as well. That's much better than Mills has managed in 30 years. Mills should get in contact with them and see if they'd be interested in collaborating on a BlackLight-powered steam-engine car.
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Old 26th April 2017, 02:52 PM   #37
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I wonder whether the heat producing unit will do away with the graphite dome. It shouldn't be needed in that application and a stronger reactor vessel would eliminate a large number of potential failure scenarios.

On second thought, I suppose they would consider that to be counter productive.
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Old 26th April 2017, 03:06 PM   #38
Matthew Cline
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Originally Posted by jsfisher View Post
The FCC has a rule that you cannot offer for sale (e.g. as in a contract to deliver units to some utility company) for a device that requires FCC certification before the device has been certified. And the device cannot be certified until you have a working as-to-be-delivered unit available for certification tests.
That would be FERC (Federal Energy Regulatory Commission), not FCC; a quick Google hasn't turned up anything obvious (to me) about what sorts of certificates (if any) they'd required for selling generators, or what sorts of reviews/certifications are needed by those using the generators. Then there's various state-level public utilities commissions, with their regulations, but again I don't know enough about regulatory agencies or the power industry to Google up anything useful. However, I'm sure they'd all be very interested in a generator that produces a brand new type of gas which hasn't undergone any medical or environmental testing.
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Old 26th April 2017, 03:50 PM   #39
The Norseman
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
That would be FERC (Federal Energy Regulatory Commission), not FCC; a quick Google hasn't turned up anything obvious (to me) about what sorts of certificates (if any) they'd required for selling generators, or what sorts of reviews/certifications are needed by those using the generators. Then there's various state-level public utilities commissions, with their regulations, but again I don't know enough about regulatory agencies or the power industry to Google up anything useful. However, I'm sure they'd all be very interested in a generator that produces a brand new type of gas which hasn't undergone any medical or environmental testing.
Yes, the states have apparently more direct oversight of the specific plants, but you're right in that FERC seems to require all companies which generate electricity show that the methods they use are safe for the public and environment.

So either Mills himself will have to go to the feds and various state agencies to demonstrate how Hydrinos™ are safe, or the existing power-producing companies which would buy these theoretical Hydrino™ generators would have to.

Plus, quite a bit of those papers are considered publicly accessible (with or without FOIA requests). Certain applications, for example, require public notice to be given before FERC will begin the examination process.

So which companies are buying the Hydrino™ HoneysⓇ, when were their safety papers filed and in which state(s)? Who signed off on them, at least? See, none of that information is proprietary, nor trade secrets either, so it would be simple to point to that information or provide names and dates.

It's sad that Investors are being bilked out of a ton of money and don't have even the smarts to ask about the various regulatory agencies and the very real time, money, and effort it takes to jump through those hoops.

Just as the days of the Shade-Tree Inventor are over, the days of just shoving a new, physics-breaking machine into the power generating grid of the United States with no questions asked, are long gone.
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Old 26th April 2017, 03:55 PM   #40
michaelsuede
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I got a few good questions from Mathew.

Just to clarify, I'm not going to ask any insulting, trolling or inflammatory questions, so don't bother sending them to me. I'm also not looking for questions that Mills has repeatedly answered already in his public demonstration videos.

The two questions I have so far that I like are on the safety of hydrinos and if they are going to focus on boiler development.

I'm also going to get a more detailed response on how they are going to deal with the heat removal from the PV panel.

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