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Old 17th May 2017, 08:25 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
I knew such organizations exist; I wasn't aware that they hosted special graduation-related events but that's not surprising.

The "first-generation student" distinction may be becoming obsolete, though. Present young generations are learning that a college degree is no longer a ticket to a comfortable middle class (especially when accompanied by student debt), and is often a requirement for a mere living wage.
Indeed. I'm completely with you on focusing on income, wealth, other shared struggles. It's practically useful, as well, as those are the students that typically have the most trouble with financial aid matters...etc.
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Old 17th May 2017, 08:28 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
This is pure, distilled logger: whining about emotion while advancing a position based entirely on gross emotions towards black college students; whining about insults while insulting someone; throwing around nonsense to avoid making a point.



There are literally hundreds of white celebrations on that campus every graduation. I have yet to protest any of them.

Again, you will continue to make silly arguments as long as you persist in believing there is a symmetry between a group unifying to exclude and oppress and a group unifying to battle against exclusion and oppression.
Unfortunately, there will always be some people who are both horribly boring and willfully stupid, and therefore these people tend to excluded from some various social functions.

Accordingly, many of these individuals always blame other people for the exclusions as opposed to doing the work that the need to do in to become a better person.
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Old 17th May 2017, 08:33 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
I would accept or even support a "white graduation" event, under certain conditions. Chiefly, that it not pretend to be the "real" graduation, or in any way of comparable or greater importance to the university's official all-inclusive ceremony. Official university degree certificates would not be given out. (The organizers could design their own White Participation Trophies instead.) Speakers would neither be misled, nor make any misleading claims themselves, to the effect that they were university-invited commencement speakers (who, at Harvard, are typically ex-Presidents, present Secretaries of State, foreign present or former heads of state, Nobel Prize winners, and other individuals of comparable prestige). Hate speech in violation of the university's applicable codes of conduct would not be permitted. While the university itself might participate in terms of authorizing and providing facilities for the event, this participation would take place under the general guidelines for student-organization events without any special considerations or status. Attendance at the event would be open to all.

Furthermore, while I suppose this couldn't be a requirement, it would have my support (rather than my passive acceptance of it taking place) if its emphasis were on recognizing the achievements of those white students who had overcome particular challenges, such as poverty or disability, to reach that milestone.

Note that as far as we know, the black students' graduation referred to in the OP took place under all those same conditions.

Now, I know that no such "white graduation" is going to happen any time soon. That's because the people most motivated to organize it are white supremacist racists, who would find the conditions I listed incompatible with their agenda and would try their best to subvert them. It would also be opposed by a majority of non-racist whites, due largely to their being aware of that previous fact and therefore justifiably suspicious of a racist trojan horse. I wouldn't touch it myself, unless I had a major say in organizing it, and I have better things to do. The middle ground can often be a lonely place; in this case, it's a desolate wasteland far too depopulated to make such an event even a remote possibility.

What I would much rather see than any "white graduation" (however intentioned) would be an "underclass graduation" celebrating the struggles and achievements of students from impoverished and working-class families, regardless of race. Divisiveness along racial lines is the current favorite tool of the strengthening American oligarchy for getting public support for policies designed to maintain their privileges in a world of tightening resource limits by shifting all burdens to the working class. Screw the urban blacks one week, and the Trumpist rural whites the next, and you can count on half of your victims cheering you on, as long as you keep them convinced that race is the problem, and that their interests are on opposite sides of every issue. Don't let them notice that they have a lot more in common, and more common cause, with their different-race co-workers than with their race brothers in the head office who just cut their hours and benefits, again.
I'll shorten that and just say you support it. Only because I disagree with it and I want to keep this simple.
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Logger, you seem apt to perceive and complain when it's other identity groups "being divisive," but not when it's you. The management appreciates that, and applauds your efforts.
I'm going to need examples? And I do appreciate the moderators, at least publicly.
I also don't understand why you want to spend so much time moderating a forum, it is highly commendable!
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Old 17th May 2017, 08:35 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I don't disagree, if that helps. It doesn't bother me that black students want to get together to celebrate being awarded a degree. It's kind of a big deal.
Great, Its great so many can be so clear on what they believe.
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Old 17th May 2017, 08:40 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
This is pure, distilled logger: whining about emotion while advancing a position based entirely on gross emotions towards black college students; whining about insults while insulting someone; throwing around nonsense to avoid making a point.
You're clearly upset that I'm better at it than you. But it's about keeping ones emotions in check like our daddy's taught us and not going off on clearly ridiculous rants because you don't like me, who is clearly a great person.


Quote:
There are literally hundreds of white celebrations on that campus every graduation. I have yet to protest any of them.
Why post such clearly obvious untruths, go ahead and post some.
Quote:
Again, you will continue to make silly arguments as long as you persist in believing there is a symmetry between a group unifying to exclude and oppress and a group unifying to battle against exclusion and oppression.
Silly? Its just a simple question of is this wrong. Not sure why your argument is its silly. I didn't realize you had this segregationists belief.
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Old 17th May 2017, 08:44 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You're clearly upset that I'm better at it than you. But it's about keeping ones emotions in check like our daddy's taught us and not going off on clearly ridiculous rants because you don't like me, who is clearly a great person.



Why post such clearly obvious untruths, go ahead and post some.

Silly? Its just a simple question of is this wrong. Not sure why your argument is its silly. I didn't realize you had this segregationists belief.
Haha. Ok. You're clearly done. No real point in continuing.
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Old 17th May 2017, 09:28 AM   #87
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Why would it be wrong? It was open to anyone. It wasn't an official ceremony.

Please explain why it would be wrong and maybe I'd agree with you.
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Old 17th May 2017, 09:29 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post

When a bunch of white bankers decide to give out loans with higher interest rates based on race (which is a current Wells Fargo scandal*), that tends to be much more damaging.

*

382 days, and yes I am counting, until I can withdraw my monies from that bank
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Old 17th May 2017, 09:42 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
382 days, and yes I am counting, until I can withdraw my monies from that bank
I have a cousin who managed a branch. The stories he tells...
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Old 17th May 2017, 09:47 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Great, Its great so many can be so clear on what they believe.
I think that you mean to say:

Great. It is great that so many people can be so clear on what they believe.

By the way ...

If you bothered to write a coherent post, then that would help you to get a coherent response.
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:09 AM   #91
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Privately raised the funds. Open to everyone. Not replacing the official ceremony. Ya, don't see an issue with it.

I also don't see it as segregating themselves either, in a sense that would do that word justice in US context. See no issues getting together to celebrate and share experiences, which while the same as other students in many respects, will of course be different for this specific group. Apparently there is a Latino equivalent going back to 2015 as well.

Whether graduates want to spend their time doing this, getting drunk and passing out in their uncles back yard in a Elizabethan era dress complete with matching umbrella, or hitting the wanted ads, if it's not illegal I don't care too much.
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:33 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Sure, it's just that one group has almost all the power. When a bunch of black college kids get together and have a party that I'm not invited to...well, I manage to do quite well in spite of that, regardless of how extreme anything said at that party may be.
And if a bunch of white kids have the party it doesn't affect you either since you probably won't be invited to that either, I get it. The point is ir was wrong for white People to segregate themselves, its wrong for other races to do it.
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When a bunch of white bankers decide to give out loans with higher interest rates based on race (which is a current Wells Fargo scandal*), that tends to be much more damaging.

*
And somehow one bank doing this affects every other loan blacks get?
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:34 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I think that you mean to say:

Great. It is great that so many people can be so clear on what they believe.

By the way ...

If you bothered to write a coherent post, then that would help you to get a coherent response.
No, its clear you cannot respond to the simplest of questions.
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:34 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
And if a bunch of white kids have the party it doesn't affect you either since you probably won't be invited to that either, I get it. The point is ir was wrong for white People to segregate themselves, its wrong for other races to do it.


And somehow one bank doing this affects every other loan blacks get?
So it's okay for some banks to discriminate against blacks as long as all of them don't?
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:35 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Privately raised the funds. Open to everyone. Not replacing the official ceremony. Ya, don't see an issue with it.

I also don't see it as segregating themselves either, in a sense that would do that word justice in US context. See no issues getting together to celebrate and share experiences, which while the same as other students in many respects, will of course be different for this specific group. Apparently there is a Latino equivalent going back to 2015 as well.

Whether graduates want to spend their time doing this, getting drunk and passing out in their uncles back yard in a Elizabethan era dress complete with matching umbrella, or hitting the wanted ads, if it's not illegal I don't care too much.
So you would be fine if white kids got together to celebrate their white achievements?
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:37 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
So it's okay for some banks to discriminate against blacks as long as all of them don't?
No, one bank doing it doesn't mean others are. The critical thinker would say the vast majority are not. How do you get I think it's okay from the post you responded to? That is just pure emotion.
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:38 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Haha. Ok. You're clearly done. No real point in continuing.
Thank you for not continuing!
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:40 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
No, its clear you cannot respond to the simplest of questions.
Well now, if this is actually the case, then there is a simple way to test it. Ask me a simple question and see if can respond to it or not.

If you are correct, then I cannot respond to a simple question.

If you are wrong, then I can respond to a simple question.

So go ahead and ask your simple question.
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:45 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
No, one bank doing it doesn't mean others are. The critical thinker would say the vast majority are not. How do you get I think it's okay from the post you responded to? That is just pure emotion.
The critical thinker would not assume the vast majority does anything.

I get it from what you write. Be a little more clear and explicit if you think you're misunderstood.
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:45 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Sure, it's just that one group has almost all the power. When a bunch of black college kids get together and have a party that I'm not invited to...well, I manage to do quite well in spite of that, regardless of how extreme anything said at that party may be.

When a bunch of white bankers decide to give out loans with higher interest rates based on race (which is a current Wells Fargo scandal*), that tends to be much more damaging.
Yeah sure but you deliberately chose two very different examples. How about a bunch of black bankers who give out loans with higher interest rates based on race?
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:46 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Yeah sure but you deliberately chose two very different examples. How about a bunch of black bankers who give out loans with higher interest rates based on race?
Do you have an example of that ever happening?

The examples are different because the situations are different.

This is not an argument about theory; it's an argument about fact and history. Yes, any group oppressing any other is wrong, but as a matter of fact, it's not possible for black people to oppress white people in the United States on any systematic level.

Last edited by TraneWreck; 17th May 2017 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:47 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
The critical thinker would not assume the vast majority does anything.

I get it from what you write. Be a little more clear and explicit if you think you're misunderstood.
I have been trying to tell him to be more clear in his writing as well.
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Last edited by Crossbow; 17th May 2017 at 11:17 AM. Reason: Typo correction
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:49 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Do you have an example of that ever happening?
It's a simple question, man.

Quote:
The examples are different because the situations are different.
Principles should apply equally to all or they're not principles at all.

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Yes, any group oppressing any other is wrong, but as a matter of fact, it's not possible for black people to oppress white people in the United States on any systematic level.
Now. The system needs to prevent abuse from any group. My point was that your examples didn't compare two apples, or even two fruits together.
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:57 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
It's a simple question, man.
And I answered it. In theory, that sort of oppression would be wrong, but because it cannot happen in our society, it's irrelevant.

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Principles should apply equally to all or they're not principles at all.
This doesn't work on a number of levels:

1) A principle need not apply to everyone equally to remain a principle. This true in virtue of the fact that people are different. A principle of progressive taxation, for example, by definition applies differently to people with different levels of income.

2) You are holding me to a principle that I don't recognize has having any value, neither has anyone here provided a solid argument for it. I cannot inconsistently apply a principle that I don't care to apply.

3) In order to advance a principle and make it consistent, it is often the case that groups of people need to be treated differently. Case in point - "Equal Protection under the law" is a principle I believe in strongly. In order to ensure that all groups have equal protection, we have, historically, been required to do things like send federal troops into the South to make sure black people had access to schools. White people do not need federal troops to get them access to schools. The fact that these two groups are treated differently does not contradict the principle.

Quote:
Now. The system needs to prevent abuse from any group. My point was that your examples didn't compare two apples, or even two fruits together.
And, again, that is because the two situations are completely different. The initial analogy - that groups of black people should be expected to abide by the exact same rules as groups of white people - is absurd and based on historical ignorance. Therefore any attempt at moving forward with the analogy will also be absurd.

But why do you think our system wouldn't already be able to hold a group of black bankers responsible for discriminating against customers?

Last edited by TraneWreck; 17th May 2017 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 17th May 2017, 11:03 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Well now, if this is actually the case, then there is a simple way to test it. Ask me a simple question and see if can respond to it or not.

If you are correct, then I cannot respond to a simple question.

If you are wrong, then I can respond to a simple question.

So go ahead and ask your simple question.
Why are you perfectly fine with this segregation?
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Old 17th May 2017, 11:15 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Why are you perfectly fine with this segregation?
Do you understand what a simple question is? Stop with the silly, transparent, gotcha attempts.
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Old 17th May 2017, 11:17 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Why are you perfectly fine with this segregation?
I already answered this question in Post #64, but I suppose with your keen eye for detail you failed to notice my very simple reply to your very simple question:

Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Of course it is not wrong.
Furthermore, just previously you were saying that I "cannot answer the simplest of questions", therefore you have been shown to be wrong again.
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Old 17th May 2017, 11:17 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I see things like this being very much accepted today.
From your link;
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"This event is truly open for everyone," said Huggins, who is graduating with a master's in public policy this month. "We really want this to be an open affair where people can learn about some experiences that often go unnoticed."
Perhaps you are not familiar with how the word segregation is defined? Or did you intend your thread to be the definition of the word fail from the beginning?

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Old 17th May 2017, 11:45 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
So you would be fine if white kids got together to celebrate their white achievements?
Why do people use these type of 'gotcha!' questions? My response makes clear my position, so you are more expressing an opinion than asking mine.

To begin with, white people do this all the time. They just don't call it 'white celebrations' or 'white achievements'. By way of population percentage, most celebrations are 'white celebrations'. There is no need to call it that, it just is.

People here generally don't identify as 'white' anyway. Go ahead, walk up to any random white guy and ask him what he is. Italian, Danish, British, German, sure. But white? Nope. We identify with and segment into a smaller subset. Seems obvious given we are the majority in this country.

So ya, I never hear this kind of argument when the National Italian American Foundation throws their annual gala. Or when they get together in little Italy in NY for Columbus Day. Or the Irish on St Patrick's Day. Or pick any subset of white people that meet to celebrate their group. Show me the outrage on those. Then we'll talk.
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Old 17th May 2017, 11:49 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
1) A principle need not apply to everyone equally to remain a principle.
Yes, it absolutely does.

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This true in virtue of the fact that people are different. A principle of progressive taxation, for example, by definition applies differently to people with different levels of income.
Except that if you become richer, you'll be taxed more. Taxation has nothing to do with the individual but with their income currently.

Quote:
2) You are holding me to a principle that I don't recognize has having any value, neither has anyone here provided a solid argument for it. I cannot inconsistently apply a principle that I don't care to apply.
That's funny because in the same post you say that you believe in equality, but this point seems to argue otherwise.

Quote:
3) In order to advance a principle and make it consistent, it is often the case that groups of people need to be treated differently. Case in point - "Equal Protection under the law" is a principle I believe in strongly. In order to ensure that all groups have equal protection, we have, historically, been required to do things like send federal troops into the South to make sure black people had access to schools. White people do not need federal troops to get them access to schools. The fact that these two groups are treated differently does not contradict the principle.
But that's not treating different groups differently at all. It's making sure that they're all treated the same. How can you make this mistake?

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And, again, that is because the two situations are completely different. The initial analogy - that groups of black people should be expected to abide by the exact same rules as groups of white people - is absurd and based on historical ignorance.
Do they have the same rights or not?

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But why do you think our system wouldn't already be able to hold a group of black bankers responsible for discriminating against customers?
Where did I say that?
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Old 17th May 2017, 11:56 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Except that if you become richer, you'll be taxed more. Taxation has nothing to do with the individual but with their income currently.
Yes...and if you have a different income, you will be taxed differently. People who make lots of money are treated differently than those who have less. I fail to see how you've rejected the premise, here. The principle of taxation applies differently to different people.

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That's funny because in the same post you say that you believe in equality, but this point seems to argue otherwise.
No, you're confusing "equality" with "treating everyone the same." Those two things are not synonymous.


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But that's not treating different groups differently at all. It's making sure that they're all treated the same. How can you make this mistake?
No, it's making sure they all have equal protection under the law. It is not treating them the same. One gets the help of federal troops; one doesn't. That is different treatment. Affirmative Action is similar - in order to receive equal opportunity, some people need to be treated differently because of historical discrimination.

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Do they have the same rights or not?
Now you're conflating "same rights" with "same treatment." The entire point is that in order for groups to have the same rights, different treatment is necessary.

Take an even more obvious example: handicapped people. If the principle is equal access to, say, government buildings, stairs will work for me; some people need a ramp. This is different treatment in order to arrive at the same rights. A right in theory that cannot be fulfilled in reality doesn't mean a whole lot.

Would it make sense to say, "Unless you treat people in wheelchairs exactly the same as people who can walk, equal access is not a principle"?

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Where did I say that?
You asked what I would do about a group of evil, oppressive black bankers. They would be held responsible for any crimes they committed. I'm not sure why you think that's an example of different treatment.

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Old 17th May 2017, 12:03 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Yes...and if you have a different income, you will be taxed differently. People who make lots of money are treated differently than those who have less.
No they're not.

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No, you're confusing "equality" with "treating everyone the same."
Yes, I definitely am. What the hell do YOU think it means?

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No, it's making sure they all have equal protection under the law. It is not treating them the same. One gets the help of federal troops; one doesn't. That is different treatment.
The only reason why one needed the troops is because they were engaging in discrimination. The group wasn't been treated differently because they were white.

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Now you're conflating "same rights" with "same treatment."
The difference in treatment is because of their actions, not the group they belong to.

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The entire point is that in order for groups to have the same rights, different treatment is necessary.
That is utter nonsense.

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Take an even more obvious example: handicapped people. If the principle is equal access to, say, government buildings, stairs will work for me; some people need a ramp. This is different treatment in order to arrive at the same rights.
Now who's confusing "rights" and "treatment"?
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Old 17th May 2017, 12:04 PM   #113
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Old 17th May 2017, 12:11 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I already answered this question in Post #64, but I suppose with your keen eye for detail you failed to notice my very simple reply to your very simple question:
You answered you thought it wasn't wrong, which I already knew you'd say that. I want to know why you think it isn't wrong.
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Furthermore, just previously you were saying that I "cannot answer the simplest of questions", therefore you have been shown to be wrong again.
Yes with much hand holding you've prevailed. Now lets see if you can answer why?
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Old 17th May 2017, 12:12 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
No they're not.
I sincerely have no idea what you're arguing. If a person makes $30,000 they are taxed at a different rate than if they make $1,000,000 (each income bracket has a different level).

They receive different treatment, a different tax rate. Yet it is perfectly consistent with the principle of progressive taxation.

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Yes, I definitely am. What the hell do YOU think it means?
I think I've explained this in a good bit of detail:

Let's say our principle is that everyone should have equal access to schooling.

Kid 1 lives in the country
Kid 2 lives across the street from the school

In order to ensure that both children have equal access, a bus will need to be provided for one, and not the other. That is different treatment.

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The only reason why one needed the troops is because they were engaging in discrimination. The group wasn't been treated differently because they were white.
What? I sincerely cannot parse this claim.

White people had access to school in the South and through legal discrimination and plain old terrorism, they kept black people out of the schools. In order to live up to the principle of Equal Protection under the law, black children had to be treated differently than white children.

It was, in fact, because they were white and not black that they could go to schools in the South.

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The difference in treatment is because of their actions, not the group they belong to.
Huh? What action does an individual take to be born black or white or handicapped?

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That is utter nonsense.
It is such a trivial and obvious truth that I cannot figure out why you would contest it.

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Now who's confusing "rights" and "treatment"?
Not me. The right one of access to public buildings. In order for me to fulfill that right, I can walk in the front door; some folks need a ramp. Different treatment to arrive at the same rights.
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Old 17th May 2017, 12:15 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Why do people use these type of 'gotcha!' questions? My response makes clear my position, so you are more expressing an opinion than asking mine.

To begin with, white people do this all the time. They just don't call it 'white celebrations' or 'white achievements'. By way of population percentage, most celebrations are 'white celebrations'. There is no need to call it that, it just is.
So the difference would be they are calling it a black celebration.
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People here generally don't identify as 'white' anyway. Go ahead, walk up to any random white guy and ask him what he is. Italian, Danish, British, German, sure. But white? Nope. We identify with and segment into a smaller subset. Seems obvious given we are the majority in this country.
We don't do it because we don't want to be segregated.
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So ya, I never hear this kind of argument when the National Italian American Foundation throws their annual gala. Or when they get together in little Italy in NY for Columbus Day. Or the Irish on St Patrick's Day. Or pick any subset of white people that meet to celebrate their group. Show me the outrage on those. Then we'll talk.
You're discussing apples and oranges. A group separating itself on the bases of race is not right. We don't celebrate that in this country.
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Old 17th May 2017, 12:15 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
I sincerely have no idea what you're arguing. If a person makes $30,000 they are taxed at a different rate than if they make $1,000,000 (each income bracket has a different level).
That's not a different treatment.

Quote:
Kid 1 lives in the country
Kid 2 lives across the street from the school

In order to ensure that both children have equal access, a bus will need to be provided for one, and not the other. That is different treatment.
You're using the phrase so broadly as to make it useless.

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White people had access to school in the South and through legal discrimination and plain old terrorism, they kept black people out of the schools. In order to live up to the principle of Equal Protection under the law, black children had to be treated differently than white children.
No they didn't. They forced the people to treat them the same.

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Huh? What action does an individual take to be born black or white or handicapped?
Exactly my point. The white folks were treated that way because they broke the law. Not because of skin colour. You're analysing this all wrong.

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It is such a trivial and obvious truth that I cannot figure out why you would contest it.
Because it's nonsense, as I've amply explained so far.
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Old 17th May 2017, 12:22 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
That's not a different treatment.

You're using the phrase so broadly as to make it useless.
You're going to have to explain what these terms mean to you. I cannot parse your argument in the least.

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No they didn't. They forced the people to treat them the same.
No, they didn't. It was manifestly different treatment. Receiving an armed governmental escort is fundamentally different treatment than walking in the door by yourself.


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Exactly my point. The white folks were treated that way because they broke the law. Not because of skin colour. You're analysing this all wrong.
You're saying that white school children broke the law? That is very odd.

Again, the principle is "equal access to education." Brown v. BOE set the legal standard. In order for that principle to be equally experienced, white children and black children had to be treated differently. Black children required an armed guard to enter a school; white children did not.

This was entirely because of the race of the children. Same right; different treatment.

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Old 17th May 2017, 12:25 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You answered you thought it wasn't wrong, which I already knew you'd say that. I want to know why you think it isn't wrong.
Oh for crying out loud!

If you want coherent answers to questions, then ask coherent questions. It is just that simple.

As for this latest question of yours, I already answered it in Post #71. So yet again, with your keen eye for detail, your strong work ethic, and your incredible personal beauty you have again managed to over look the obvious data that you have requested.

Post#71

Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
If you actually knew my opinion, then you should not have ask for my opinion.

But to answer your question, ...

People hold private parties, ceremonies, meetings and other such things all the time. I have been to many such things myself and I am sure that you have been to at least a few of of them as well.
As for the other issue you raise, ...

Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yes with much hand holding you've prevailed. Now lets see if you can answer why?
You are so wrong again.

I do not need hand holding. You are the one who needs hand holding.

If you actually bothered to read the postings that are clearly addressed to you, then you would already have the answer.
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Old 17th May 2017, 12:59 PM   #120
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