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24th August 2015, 10:35 AM | #481 |
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Science proves physics incomplete. Story at eleven.
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As you "die" you slip into a valley that is an asymptote which never reaches actual "death". Because time is relative, the more you "die" the longer each moment lasts. In effect, you live an eternity of experiences in that valley — and it never ends.
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24th August 2015, 11:36 AM | #482 |
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You have already decided that it exists.
You want that 'continuing of some kind of existence'. It's relevant for this thread and it makes you defensive. Because that something which can't be proven is what you want to have. |
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24th August 2015, 11:50 AM | #483 |
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Incomplete? It means that our entire understanding of biology and the human brain, and the very nature of the universe and physical stuff IS WRONG.
Do you even know what your claim is?
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24th August 2015, 12:19 PM | #484 |
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24th August 2015, 01:46 PM | #485 |
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"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett "If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans "I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat |
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24th August 2015, 01:52 PM | #486 |
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24th August 2015, 03:37 PM | #487 |
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"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade |
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24th August 2015, 03:50 PM | #488 |
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Simple probability tells us that we should expect coincidences, and simple psychology tells us that we'll remember the ones we notice... |
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24th August 2015, 04:21 PM | #489 |
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The problem is that the evidence we do have rules it out. If something of us (other than rotting meat, or ash, artefacts, and the memories of others) survives bodily death, you run into the interaction problem - what is it that interacts with our brains & bodies, yet is non-physical and can persist the information that could make up our post-mortem selves?
I'm pretty sure I've said this here before, but the Standard Model of physics tells us that at everyday human scales only protons, neutrons, electrons, the electromagnetic field, and gravity are relevant; there are no other forces or fields that are strong enough or long range enough to interact significantly with our brains & bodies. The electromagnetic field can't do it, so the overwhelming evidence tells us it's not possible. Sean Carroll explains why here (at 33 mins): The Higgs Boson & the Fundamental Nature of Reality
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Simple probability tells us that we should expect coincidences, and simple psychology tells us that we'll remember the ones we notice... |
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24th August 2015, 06:20 PM | #490 |
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24th August 2015, 06:24 PM | #491 |
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24th August 2015, 07:17 PM | #492 |
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I don't think so. If your happy with the "wall stops here" and you never take a sledge hammer to break through to see what's on the other side then that's your choice.
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http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elemen...or-brain-death
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24th August 2015, 08:15 PM | #493 |
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If all protons are black holes and interconnected via an interface between information and the surface area at the event horizon then it would be a different story according to this guy. I'm not sure I follow this well enough to be able to discuss it intelligently. Tell me what's wrong with this idea. Now, to uncover the the actual mass of the proton, its gravitational mass, we divide the number of Planck-circles on the proton surface with the number of PSUs within the proton volume (4.72 × 1040 / 1055), which results in 5.91 × 1014. This number is the exact mass needed for the proton to fulfill the Schwarzschild condition of a black hole. Thus we have found the holographic gravitational mass of the proton (its Schwarzschild mass), only by using Planck units and geometry alone, without involving Schwarzschild´s equations or the field equations of relativity at any time. In other words, we have described both gravity and mass as a relation between information to surface area, and this is has been achieved algebraically, through quantification of the vacuum energy by a physical constant, the Planck unit. The formula is universal and can be applied to all astrophysical systems, thus we have, for the first time, a functional mathematical description of quantum gravity! By this novel approach to physics we may study the foundations of the entire universe simply by studying the geometric properties of a single proton. http://holofractal.net/quantum-gravi...ographic-mass/ |
24th August 2015, 09:13 PM | #494 |
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Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi) |
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24th August 2015, 09:28 PM | #495 |
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I think you're reading that too literally.
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24th August 2015, 09:50 PM | #496 |
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Of course I am, but at the same time, it's inherently and always true that nobody can ever provide real evidence for life after death because dead people tell no tales. You can go on and on about what it feels like to be almost dead, and imagine whether it means anything, and imagine whether or not the experiences of people who have not actually died indicate anything, but a miss is as good as a mile. You're alive until you're dead, and then you're not.
The arguments for considering life after death all remain essentially the same as other mystical and supernatural arguments. The premise is that once you have expressed an idea, it must be taken seriously even if no evidence supports it, since it cannot be disproven. The only difference between eternal life and the reward of virgins, or harps, robes and pink clouds, is that some inventions are less offensive to our residual reason than others. |
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Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi) |
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24th August 2015, 09:57 PM | #497 |
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I guess we'll all find out in the end.
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24th August 2015, 11:08 PM | #498 |
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It's a crank website with made-up physics?
It's been knocking around for around ten years now, (as far as I know). Here's a blog looking at the main issues. Sorry it's not an official refutation, but the original idea/paper never made it past self-publishing, so it never got peer-reviewed. As an indication, the first problem with the 'protons as black holes' idea is that it means that the mass of a single proton would be over 800 million tons, and each proton would radiate 450 million watts and have a temperature of 140 billion Celsius. Other than that, it looks like a completely plausible idea. |
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25th August 2015, 01:33 AM | #499 |
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25th August 2015, 01:36 AM | #500 |
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25th August 2015, 01:45 AM | #501 |
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Until such time, you are actively defending your desired outcome.
The 'reality' of the afterlife lies only before death, in the minds of the believers who feed that belief by endlessly talking about it and forcing that belief with an almost pathological need onto their environment. No sign of the afterlife anywhere else. |
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25th August 2015, 02:27 AM | #502 |
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One more indication that you don't know what you're talking about.
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25th August 2015, 02:28 AM | #503 |
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25th August 2015, 08:51 AM | #504 |
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Here we go again
Jodie says, "I personally believe in eternal life...."
Whoops, hold it right there. Have you given any more than passing thought to the implications of eternal existence? Do you really, truly want to live FOREVER? Until the heat death of the universe? And on and on after that? Can you imagine the horror of not being able to die? A poster here in a similar thread once observed that "The most exquisite paradise would become an unendurable inferno before the first instant of eternity had passed." Trouble is, "unendurable" has no meaning in such a case. The being that lives forever must experience infinite existence, without escape. Can you think of that glibly? Really? I mentioned a similar thread. In fact, over the years this business of the horror of immortality has come up quite a few times, as it must eventually in any thread about life after death. We aren't made for infinite things; finally, we need our sleep. You'd better go on your shankbones and pray to Jesus that there's death. |
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When I spoke out against the bullies, they called me woke. When I lashed them with a length of chain, they called me sir. |
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25th August 2015, 09:00 AM | #505 |
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It certainly would be different. Proton-size black holes would evaporate so fast you could only detect them by the radiation of their decay. 'If things were different, then things would be different...'; profound or tautologous? you be the judge.
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It's worth getting a basic grasp of what the empirical evidence and the consensus model tells us about such things before trying to interpret the ramblings of pseudo-scientific sites like that. |
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Simple probability tells us that we should expect coincidences, and simple psychology tells us that we'll remember the ones we notice... |
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25th August 2015, 09:02 AM | #506 |
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Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi) |
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25th August 2015, 04:58 PM | #507 |
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25th August 2015, 05:01 PM | #508 |
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26th August 2015, 04:28 AM | #509 |
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In eternal Heaven, Earth is reality tv; you ever-dead, the actors; channel without end.
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"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett "If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans "I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat |
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26th August 2015, 05:12 AM | #510 |
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"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett "If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans "I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat |
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26th August 2015, 03:27 PM | #511 |
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When I spoke out against the bullies, they called me woke. When I lashed them with a length of chain, they called me sir. |
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26th August 2015, 04:09 PM | #512 |
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I do indeed, depends on how eternal life pans out. It's not a guarantee of happiness, it just might be "being", like in a coma. That isn't quality of life to me.
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26th August 2015, 04:12 PM | #513 |
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26th August 2015, 04:32 PM | #514 |
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So basically "There's an afterlife because I really, really want there to be."
Okay. There's already a roughly 9 billion post long thread about that with exactly as much evidence presented. |
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26th August 2015, 05:15 PM | #515 |
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I still say there is eternal life because we are finite beings who can't see beyond what our eyes and technology see. That may or may not be a good thing.
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26th August 2015, 05:27 PM | #516 |
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Okay and since you provide no evidence for it what you have is, at best, at most, wishful thinking.
Combined with a lot of the same bog standard anti-intellectual claptrap that Jabba's been doing for about 10,000 years now. |
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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26th August 2015, 05:51 PM | #517 |
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26th August 2015, 05:52 PM | #518 |
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26th August 2015, 06:06 PM | #519 |
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Jodie has several dragons in her garage.
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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26th August 2015, 06:12 PM | #520 |
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