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Tags Brilliant Light Power , free energy , Randell Mills

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Old 20th June 2019, 10:35 AM   #481
Hans
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The magic continues!!!

https://brilliantlightpower.com/flas...y-the-suncell/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwjy...ature=youtu.be

It bubbles
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Old 20th June 2019, 10:51 AM   #482
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Into vapor?
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Old 20th June 2019, 11:05 AM   #483
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
So, millions of dollars of investments and decades of research have finally culminated in a more dangerous version of this?
https://www.amazon.com/Professional-...a-729817183614
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Old 22nd June 2019, 02:40 AM   #484
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Thanks, don't worry if you can't find it, but that sounds like it would be like what I'd be interested in. The official BLP website was actually very tightly worded at the time, but Mills himself made a lot of promises that were obviously wrong at the time he made them.
Just been reminded of this. I've not had a chance to look yet. Perhaps after the weekend.
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Old 22nd June 2019, 02:24 PM   #485
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Just a suggestion, but perhaps they should be trying to not melt down their revolutionary power generator...
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Old 22nd June 2019, 10:01 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Just a suggestion, but perhaps they should be trying to not melt down their revolutionary power generator...
YOU SEE you are pitching the archconservative orthodox view that wants to go nowhere!!!! The status quo wants equipment that 'works', that survives and can be used again....Piffle I say, Piffle - great deep thinkers like Mills knows success is making bubbles and having the machines melt. Those in the know know what it means. Didn't Einstein say:

Klappe zu, Affe tot (Close the lid, the monkey is dead)

und

Leben wie Gott in Frankreich (Live like God in France)
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Old 23rd June 2019, 05:00 AM   #487
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Thinking about it, to use a currently popular topic, if Mills had worked at Chernobyl he would have been declaring the safety test an incredible success!
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Old 23rd June 2019, 05:36 AM   #488
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I notice the shills have deserted the thread. Does that mean Mills has raised enough money to keep him in luxury until his next preposterous "Going to market in the next six months" claim in another three or four years?
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Old 23rd June 2019, 08:39 AM   #489
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I notice the shills have deserted the thread. Does that mean Mills has raised enough money to keep him in luxury until his next preposterous "Going to market in the next six months" claim in another three or four years?
I think they were instructed initially to create the illusion of a 'controversy' and that the critics couldn't answer the evidence - which is why we went over the same stuff multiple times. I suspect they also realized - finally - that keeping this thread alive was a threat to their gaining more investors as it was coming up in google.

So they fled hoping it will die.

Yeah either the cycle will be done again or Mills might bail out - but I suspect he likes that 1 million he pays himself for the building and his salary and all the other perks he grants himself out of the investor's money.

We'll see.

Last edited by Hans; 23rd June 2019 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 23rd June 2019, 04:43 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
I think they were instructed initially to create the illusion of a 'controversy' and that the critics couldn't answer the evidence - which is why we went over the same stuff multiple times. I suspect they also realized - finally - that keeping this thread alive was a threat to their gaining more investors as it was coming up in google.

So they fled hoping it will die.

Yeah either the cycle will be done again or Mills might bail out - but I suspect he likes that 1 million he pays himself for the building and his salary and all the other perks he grants himself out of the investor's money.

We'll see.
Dunno. The cycle seems to be to go dark for a while to let the heat die down, then erupt with some new fantasy. Worked for Orbo to the tune of millions. All of which vanished without trace.
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Old 23rd June 2019, 05:03 PM   #491
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I'm more inclined to think that they're True Believers, rather than people who are in on it.
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Old 23rd June 2019, 07:43 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Dunno. The cycle seems to be to go dark for a while to let the heat die down, then erupt with some new fantasy. Worked for Orbo to the tune of millions. All of which vanished without trace.
For those lurkers who might not know what you are referring too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steorn
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Old 23rd June 2019, 10:41 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I'm more inclined to think that they're True Believers, rather than people who are in on it.
I go back and forth on this. On the one hand the Mills supporters appear to be reasonably intelligent and articulate, and whilst I can understand why they might have been fooled by the first one or two iterations of the scam I find it hard to believe they would still be fooled after nearly 30 years of it. On the other hand I see evidence every day that people who have made a decision and invested heavily in it are often prepared to go through the most absurd mental gymnastics to continue to justify it, rather than admit that they made a mistake.

It could well be that we've had both shills and True Believers contributing to this thread, though telling which is which is beyond my capabilities.
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Old 24th June 2019, 01:03 AM   #494
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I go back and forth on this. On the one hand the Mills supporters appear to be reasonably intelligent and articulate, and whilst I can understand why they might have been fooled by the first one or two iterations of the scam I find it hard to believe they would still be fooled after nearly 30 years of it. On the other hand I see evidence every day that people who have made a decision and invested heavily in it are often prepared to go through the most absurd mental gymnastics to continue to justify it, rather than admit that they made a mistake.
I think it's important not to underestimate how powerful the second can be. There are plenty of intelligent people in cults, after all.

Then add to that the appeal of the whole "I'm cleverer than you because I know this thing and you people don't" aspect. And you do, indeed, see plenty of conspiratorial thinking from supporters, blaming the reason that Mills' work hasn't progressed further on a cabal of scientists whose livings would be destroyed were Mills right, and Big Oil who have a vested interest in there not being an alternate source of power.

To my way of thinking, the more people that are in on the fact that Mills is perpetrating a scam, the more likely the scam is to be exposed. So I don't really think it likely that Mills employs a team of people to spread PR on obscure, outdated, and hostile message boards. I think that would expose him to far more risk than it would have potential benefits.

OTOH, convince people that you've got something genuine, and you've got a self-motivated team who will go out and spread the word anywhere and everywhere for free, all backing each other up, and all feeling clever and special for doing so. And the worst that will happen if they change their mind is not that they'll publish a "I was a Mills shill, let me explain what's really going on" piece, but instead that they'll quietly disappear, or say "actually, I don't think the maths does work, after all".
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Old 24th June 2019, 02:11 AM   #495
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Yep.

Sadly there are always true believers that will have convinced themselves that black is white and white is black, and will maintain that belief through thick and thin despite the occasional accident on a Zebra crossing.
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Old 24th June 2019, 06:46 AM   #496
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
For those lurkers who might not know what you are referring too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steorn
I hadn't heard about the Orbo before. A clear con, though McCarthy managed to convince people he was sincere.

I think Mills desperately wants his theories to be correct, but must know that they aren't. I compare this to a televangelist who knows that his pitch is probably crap, but is caught up in the adulation and money (and on the off chance it was true, he was saving everyone).

The Mills cult is still somewhat active on Reddit, but seems to have given up here. I think Mills theories appeal to those who consider themselves smart and well educated, but don't have the actually knowledge to see the problems in Mills' ideas. The average Joe is not going to believe in magical cheap energy.

I have to wonder how Mills manages his staff. Surely anyone truly competent in science would say WTF. Does he fire those, or does he not let them into the inner sanctum of bubbly experiments until they have shown to be true believers?
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Old 24th June 2019, 07:18 AM   #497
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Originally Posted by HappySkeptic99 View Post
I have to wonder how Mills manages his staff. Surely anyone truly competent in science would say WTF. Does he fire those, or does he not let them into the inner sanctum of bubbly experiments until they have shown to be true believers?
I suspect it's similar to the way Theranos was managed. Careful control of who knows what, compartmentalization, and a culture of secrecy and suspicion will go a long way towards keeping even the staff in the dark about how the very thing they're working on is a con. A lot of employees went through the Theranos doors over the years, but only a handful saw enough of the pieces to realize something was wrong.
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Old 25th June 2019, 06:58 AM   #498
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I suspect it's similar to the way Theranos was managed. Careful control of who knows what, compartmentalization, and a culture of secrecy and suspicion will go a long way towards keeping even the staff in the dark about how the very thing they're working on is a con. A lot of employees went through the Theranos doors over the years, but only a handful saw enough of the pieces to realize something was wrong.
I just watched "The Inventor" on HBO, about Theranos.

I think there are many parallels with BLP, but Theranos went down when they had a real customer - Walgreens. It would be like BLP having a real power customer, and using Honda generators in their basement lab, while claiming to be using a SunCell. It doesn't work for long.

But the compartmentalization part is probably similar. Mills is probably the glue that brings everything together, and no-one independently investigates the big picture on their own.

What struck me about the Theranos company meetings was a combination of "we are changing the world!" and "they are out to destroy us!".
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Old 25th June 2019, 07:39 AM   #499
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Originally Posted by HappySkeptic99 View Post
What struck me about the Theranos company meetings was a combination of "we are changing the world!" and "they are out to destroy us!".
I've seen a similar dynamic on many of the BLP and Mills forums online, especially in the Yahoo group he deleted.
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Old 25th June 2019, 09:07 AM   #500
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We've seen it on this forum. Big science suppressing Mills is a common refrain from markie. And the guy who started the original thread this has split off from many times is a libertarian who thinks Mills is changing the world. He and his libertarian friends think Mills invention will produce enough energy to make flying houses feasible leading to the breakdown of national borders.
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Old 25th June 2019, 09:21 AM   #501
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
And the guy who started the original thread this has split off from many times [....]
What, you mean the guy who said, on 9th January 2017:

Quote:
I'm here to let you know that free energy generators will be hitting the market within a year, with mass production ramping up rapidly within two years.
That guy?

Dave
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Old 25th June 2019, 10:32 AM   #502
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
What, you mean the guy who said, on 9th January 2017:



That guy?

Dave
Yeah, I hope he didn't lose to much money.
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Old 25th June 2019, 12:28 PM   #503
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Yeah, I hope he didn't lose to much money.
He started this saga with a post containing things like this:
Quote:
I'm here to let you know that free energy generators will be hitting the market within a year, with mass production ramping up rapidly within two years. If you're able to short energy sector stocks and hold the position long term, you will definitely make your money back.
If he followed his own advice his retirement plan is probably toast. He was repeatedly asked if he was a BLP investor, but he never gave a definitive reply that I remember. Anyone got a link to him giving a real answer to the question?

Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
New paper submitted for journal publication: Power Determination and Hydrino Product Characterization of Ultra-low Field Ignition of Hydrated Silver Shots. PDF
The PDF has been deleted. It's archived here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20170624...er-060117b.pdf
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Old 25th June 2019, 01:05 PM   #504
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
OTOH, convince people that you've got something genuine, and you've got a self-motivated team who will go out and spread the word anywhere and everywhere for free, all backing each other up, and all feeling clever and special for doing so. And the worst that will happen if they change their mind is not that they'll publish a "I was a Mills shill, let me explain what's really going on" piece, but instead that they'll quietly disappear, or say "actually, I don't think the maths does work, after all".


Consider the people who still believe in Stanley Meyer's water powered car.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Water_...#Stanley_Meyer


Even years after his death, you can still find people on the internet touting his invention as a breakthrough that was suppressed by Big Oil.
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Old 26th June 2019, 03:10 AM   #505
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
I've noticed a trend with 'skeptics' here, a behaviour that exhibits low inhibition in ascribing the foulest of motives to those who challenge the status quo. Venom is directed towards the individuals, the mavericks, who buck the system. It's like skeptics don't want to believe the story from the maverick point of view ; they prefer the safety of the incumbent, institutional view, despite evidence.
No, that's the woo peddlers and conspiracy theorosts. Science and skepticism is about always questioning and examining, trying to figure out what's incorrect and learning from mistakes.

Conspiracy theorists, alternative medicine supporters, and spiritualists seem tojust want to fiercely defend their pet ideas from scrutiny or criticism, resorting to whining about bullying and perspecution, making up lies about their opponents being in the pockets of Big Pharma, and demonising whole professions they deem threatening or who in some way compete with them.

Wakefield is a proven, self-admitted fraud. Looking at evidence instead of doing the typical "sceptics are narrowminded!" routine would have told you that.
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Old 26th June 2019, 06:30 AM   #506
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Conspiracy theorists, alternative medicine supporters, and spiritualists seem tojust want to fiercely defend their pet ideas from scrutiny or criticism, resorting to whining about bullying and perspecution, making up lies about their opponents being in the pockets of Big Pharma, and demonising whole professions they deem threatening or who in some way compete with them.
The persecution claim seems to work psychologically, to allow people to keep believing.

The key to a manipulator's success is to convince people of one small detail (valid or not), and then to get them to believe that the entirety must therefore be true.

In the Mills case, supporters point to formulas for binding energies. The "I've run the spreadsheet and it works" evidence, which really isn't evidence of anything.
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Old 26th June 2019, 07:53 AM   #507
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Originally Posted by HappySkeptic99 View Post
<snip>

In the Mills case, supporters point to formulas for binding energies. The "I've run the spreadsheet and it works" evidence, which really isn't evidence of anything.
This part is intriguing.

Yes, you can get a nice spreadsheet, full of values that look surprisingly in synch.

But when you look deeper, the whole thing falls apart: a (great) many of Mills' "predictions" are more than several sigma away from robust experimental values. And Mills has zero wiggle room. This makes his numbers, and the "model" used to produce them, nothing more than a curiosity.

But then, almost no Mills fan/acolyte even understands this (quite basic, scientific) concept, much less realizes how fatal it is to the whole ediface.
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Old 30th June 2019, 01:49 PM   #508
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
This part is intriguing.

Yes, you can get a nice spreadsheet, full of values that look surprisingly in synch.

But when you look deeper, the whole thing falls apart: a (great) many of Mills' "predictions" are more than several sigma away from robust experimental values. And Mills has zero wiggle room. This makes his numbers, and the "model" used to produce them, nothing more than a curiosity.

But then, almost no Mills fan/acolyte even understands this (quite basic, scientific) concept, much less realizes how fatal it is to the whole ediface.
Or they do and it is their job to try and hide it the best they can.
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Old 30th June 2019, 02:56 PM   #509
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Originally Posted by HappySkeptic99 View Post
... The "I've run the spreadsheet and it works" evidence, which really isn't evidence of anything.
It is evidence of the computer adage of Garbage In, Garbage Out ! Input Mills' garbage equations and confirm that Mills' results are also garbage because they does not match the experimental values.
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Old 7th July 2019, 06:17 PM   #510
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In these marathon sessions was it ever established just how much money Mills has wasted so far in his 'quest'?
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Old 8th July 2019, 05:52 AM   #511
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
In these marathon sessions was it ever established just how much money Mills has wasted so far in his 'quest'?
Some guesses have been made, but they're largely based on claims made publicly by Mills about various rounds of investment.
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Old 8th July 2019, 01:45 PM   #512
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Some guesses have been made, but they're largely based on claims made publicly by Mills about various rounds of investment.

Yeah, the last number I saw was $60 million, I think. So about $2 million per year, on average.
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Old 9th July 2019, 07:32 AM   #513
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Yeah, the last number I saw was $60 million, I think. So about $2 million per year, on average.
I think is is more like $125 million, but I don't know the exact number.

I just wonder when the crap hits the fan. Surely big investors aren't going to just write off their money once they realize this is a scam.
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Old 9th July 2019, 07:50 AM   #514
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Originally Posted by HappySkeptic99 View Post
I just wonder when the crap hits the fan. Surely big investors aren't going to just write off their money once they realize this is a scam.
I suspect between the sunk cost fallacy and, if Mills was smart, a focus on elderly investors, there aren't many investors who will come after him. The claim that he's looking to make shares available on secondary markets may be enough to keep the few wolves at bay until he either retires or the antsy marks die off.

Even if any investors come after him legally they may not have much of a leg to stand on. They invested in an experimental research facility working on a fringe theory. I am not a lawyer, but unless they can prove Mills was engaging in deliberate fraud he may have a cast iron defense in the nature of the "research."
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Old 9th July 2019, 07:56 AM   #515
RecoveringYuppy
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I think his biggest investors probably viewed this as highly speculative and for them this wouldn't be the first small investment they made that didn't pan out. Unless some insider comes out with evidence of intentional fraud I don't think they have much to gain by going after Mills.
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Old 9th July 2019, 03:01 PM   #516
Red Baron Farms
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This shill, Navid Sadikali, woke up and started trolling for new marks. First time in a year.
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Old 10th July 2019, 05:30 PM   #517
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
This shill, Navid Sadikali, woke up and started trolling for new marks. First time in a year.
Blimey. It's truly a little depressing to read some of the answers here.
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Old 11th July 2019, 09:29 AM   #518
HappySkeptic99
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Blimey. It's truly a little depressing to read some of the answers here.
Well, at least there are 2 good answers. The rest are from true believers or shills.

To anyone who becomes enamored by the Mills simple formulas, I have to tell them how science works. To overturn current theory, you need to come up with something that answers ALL currently available data at least as well as the current theory, and then answers something that the current theory did not.

The orbitsphere fails on so many levels, including orbital stability, energy levels, double-slit experiment, all other quantum effects. He has some "close" formulae from pretending that the electron wavefunction can be reified in a shell, instead of an actual wavefunction.

Sometimes alternative constructions can give certain good or close answers in physics. That doesn't mean they are correct -- they would have to explain all aspects of the system, not just some.

Mills construction is ridiculous, and fails on so many levels. Mills doesn't have the training to understand how badly he is wrong, and his acolytes blindly follow. It is like a cult or conspiracy-theory group. The followers believe they have "inside information" into some deep mystery, but they don't. They are just following a delusional individual.
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Old 13th July 2019, 02:48 PM   #519
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Quote:
The US Defense Department has licensed BLP technology and had it reproduced in three independent labs.
https://www.quora.com/Will-investing...mment/82373528
Well there you go then, it must be real- some random guy on the internet said the US DOD has licenced it- and we can certainly trust S.R.G.O.T.I.!!!


ETA
Don't know if this one has been linked to before, its apparently a Blacklight investor promotion or something, it's from a while ago (2018), but it has had a massive impact- we might even double his views...
Quote:
Dr. Renick - Chief Scientist at ARA discusses his investigation into Randell Mills' work since 1999. ARA is a US Defense Contractor, with $200mi in annual revenues and 1100 employees.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1-q...youtu.be&t=209
About 5 min long

ETA2
o...k....
his profile...
https://www.zoominfo.com/p/Joseph-Renick/180073505

Quote:
Dr. Joseph Renick , former Chief Scientist at Applied Research Associates added, "It is understandable why even the best of scientists have difficulty taking seriously that which has been accomplished by Dr. Mills and his team at Brilliant Light Power because of how completely it transforms our understanding of atomic and molecular structure, dispels all of the strangeness associated with quantum theory so cherished by quantum physicists and chemists and then to boot delivers to mankind a new source of essentially unlimited inexpensive clean energy.
No conflict of interest there then.... ('former' Chief Scientist...)
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Last edited by Dabop; 13th July 2019 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 13th July 2019, 03:49 PM   #520
abaddon
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Originally Posted by Dabop View Post
https://www.quora.com/Will-investing...mment/82373528
Well there you go then, it must be real- some random guy on the internet said the US DOD has licenced it- and we can certainly trust S.R.G.O.T.I.!!!


ETA
Don't know if this one has been linked to before, its apparently a Blacklight investor promotion or something, it's from a while ago (2018), but it has had a massive impact- we might even double his views...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1-q...youtu.be&t=209
About 5 min long

ETA2
o...k....
his profile...
https://www.zoominfo.com/p/Joseph-Renick/180073505



No conflict of interest there then.... ('former' Chief Scientist...)
Oh it gets worse. the guy appears to be a jesus freak. Unbiased opinion? Not.
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