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1st June 2010, 03:04 PM | #41 |
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There are times when the lines between "politics," "current events," and "conspiracy theories" all get a little fuzzy.
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1st June 2010, 04:00 PM | #42 |
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Exactly. But since it's back here, I'd like to see its reference to US politics and opinions. One that comes up (the main one ATM) is suspicion that, as Beerina said, the Scots were duped. This is the prognosis mostly, something I'm not way up on. But it might be nice to address these concerns of Americans - WAS there anything improper in that.
Some noteworthy passages to consider: Dr Simpson, a former member of the British Association of Urological Surgeons' prostate cancer working group who specialised in prostate disease research, expressed doubt that Megrahi would die within the next three months and claimed that Megrahi could live for eight months. He then went on to say that, "Kenny MacAskill released him apparently on the advice of just one doctor whose status is not clear and who is not named." He added that a second specialist opinion in palliative care should have been sought before the release. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...re-months.html Scottish Tory justice spokesman, Bill Aitken said: "In June and July, there was a consensus on prognosis of eight months. Where is that consensus now? We only have the opinion of one anonymous individual - not the range of medical experts promised. http://www.dailyindia.com/show/330532.php --- |
1st June 2010, 04:21 PM | #43 |
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My mother was given one day by a Scots doctor yet she survived 3. I guess he was a charlatan or I was a dupe eh?
The docs said he was dying of cancer. He will die of cancer.
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1st June 2010, 07:14 PM | #44 |
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1st June 2010, 07:42 PM | #45 |
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I am glad my country isn't "compassionate" enough to set free a mass murdering terrorist just because he got sick.
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1st June 2010, 07:45 PM | #46 |
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1st June 2010, 07:53 PM | #47 |
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Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts |
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1st June 2010, 07:57 PM | #48 |
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1st June 2010, 09:31 PM | #49 |
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You may want to re-think your statement, unless you're going to go pedant over the whole "mass murdering terrorist" goose chase. According to the actual rules for compassionate release, the crime of the offender doesn't necessarily disqualify them (though the sentence may). While folks like this person might imply that it happens too rarely, the reality is that the US does have a compassionate release program and it doesn't follow to state without a doubt that someone like Megrahi wouldn't have gotten a release.
But hey, don't let me deflate your jingoism. |
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1st June 2010, 09:47 PM | #50 |
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How exactly is that going pedant? It's clear I was talking about mass murdering terrorists since I said mass murdering terrorists.
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I am well aware the are provisions for compassionate release, and I don't really have a problem for inmates who didn't kill people. But mass murderers? Yes, I do. Thankfully, (to my knowledge) no mass murderer has ever been let out on those grounds before in the US. I think is pretty clear that there is no way that someone like Megrahi would ever be let out of prison in the US. And I am glad that it is that way. |
1st June 2010, 09:58 PM | #51 |
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1st June 2010, 10:17 PM | #52 |
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Do you actually think that there is any chance whatsoever that it would happen in the USA? Or are you just trolling?
In case it's the former, let's lower the standard from mass murdering terrorists to mass murderer. To my knowledge no mass murderer has ever been granted compassionate release in the USA although there have been some that would have qualified in Scotland. One example is Susan AtkinsWP who recently died in prison. Can you name one mass murderer who has ever been granted a compassionate released in the USA? |
2nd June 2010, 01:24 AM | #53 |
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Obviously that's a sad and interesting-sounding and totally different situation. Condolences.
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I thought he meant 8 months from then, and it looks like it will be not much more than that. But Aitken makes a good case for just what he denies - patients often live longer than their prognosis says. Aitken was wrong too, good thing we didn't have him in charge, releasing murderers early and WHY? |
2nd June 2010, 01:41 AM | #54 |
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I think I read a while back that the US has greater prison hospital provision for these sorts of scenarios. In the UK, prison hospitals just aren't set up to deal with palliative care etc because our smaller pool of prisoners doesn't warrant such facilities. So it probably is less likely that this would have happened in the US.
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2nd June 2010, 01:43 AM | #55 |
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Except sometimes they're wrong and the person's innocent. Not necessarily in this case, but when it's really for sure that a person did something that heinous, they should pay. And here, we've got a conviction by judges. I gotta admit, that's fairly impressive.
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On USA and compassionate release, Dtugg:
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I'm presuming she was actually guilty, as I've heard nothing to the contrary. |
2nd June 2010, 07:15 AM | #56 |
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2nd June 2010, 07:16 AM | #57 |
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2nd June 2010, 08:59 AM | #59 |
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2nd June 2010, 09:06 AM | #60 |
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2nd June 2010, 09:16 AM | #61 |
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2nd June 2010, 09:28 AM | #62 |
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2nd June 2010, 02:05 PM | #63 |
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2nd June 2010, 02:21 PM | #64 |
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2nd June 2010, 02:54 PM | #65 |
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Can you name one in Scotland or England that received the same medical evaluations and doctors as Megrahi before release? Do Scotish and English inmates usually have three specialists (including a foreign one) determine their condition for a compassionate release? Yes, this guy was treated differently because he was a Muslim and killed Americans....he was treated BETTER than your average dying Scotish or English inmate.
It would be interesting to know on average how long Scottish and English inmates lived after their compassionate releases. |
2nd June 2010, 03:22 PM | #66 |
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2nd June 2010, 03:34 PM | #67 |
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Indeed, as Funk del Fino points out, this is an issue of Scottish law. I can understand the sentiment that convicted murderers SHOULD serve full life. But where the laws say differently, you can't call it improper or suspect when the results are different from what one might prefer.
The law says when there's a prognosis that says three months or less is likely, that's close enough to life. The diagnosis is real, so the release was justified. That doesn't prove the diagnoisis was sound, nor does his continued survival prove it was unsound. Great discussion! |
2nd June 2010, 03:55 PM | #68 |
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You're right, I was wrong. Megrahi's release was not based on the opinon of three doctors....it was at least six.
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2nd June 2010, 04:16 PM | #69 |
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double post
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2nd June 2010, 04:32 PM | #70 |
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2nd June 2010, 04:48 PM | #71 |
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2nd June 2010, 06:53 PM | #72 |
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2nd June 2010, 06:57 PM | #73 |
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No, you should treat him differently because he killed a bunch of people. I would say the same thing if he were white and no American died. If any other mass murderers have been released from prison in Scotland or England just because they got sick, that just further proves how stupid the law is.
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3rd June 2010, 01:29 AM | #74 |
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A comparable High Profile compassionate release might be Ronnie Biggs
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...m-prison..html No mention of how many doctors it took to provide the medical evidence in question though. |
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3rd June 2010, 02:34 AM | #75 |
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I would guess Megrahi had more advice and perhaps friendlier advice than average. I doubt it's because he's a Muslim or terrorist and the UK gave him better care. Likely it's because Megrahi or someone paid them and that's allowed. Maybe their opinions are supposed to be weighed lightly, only FYI to the real deciding doctors? I don't know, let's see what anyone finds out more specific.
Ronnie Biggs is quite interesting. His case parallels Megrahi's in a lot of ways. Almost as convenient as the Atkins thing, the UK way of showing the Megrahi release ISN'T special. Happens all the time, even with baddies like Biggs. He's still alive too, isn't he? |
3rd June 2010, 02:59 AM | #76 |
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Biggs, at least, didn't kill a bunch of people.
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3rd June 2010, 03:54 AM | #77 |
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As I was writing that up I figured there'd be someone along soon to point that out.
The point of course is whether people in different situations are treated differently. So that fact that he wasn't a mass murdering terrorist is makes the point rather then invalidating it. |
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3rd June 2010, 04:03 AM | #78 |
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But they should be treated differently. I don't have a problem giving a compassionate release to someone who just stole a bunch of money.
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3rd June 2010, 05:02 AM | #79 |
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But that's the nub of the matter. Should they really be treated differently? Who are we showing compassion to? I don't think either Meghari (assuming his guilty) or Biggs deserve compassion. I know I'd rather lose my liberty than my life so I don't make the mistake of thinking that a protracted death is somehow getting off lightly, being confined to a hospital bed, or being confined to a prison hospital bed is much the same, but it's the families I have compassion for. They deserve a chance to share these last moments.
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3rd June 2010, 05:28 AM | #80 |
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What's the practical value of keeping him locked up, paying for his medical and end-of-life care, when he is clearly no longer a threat to society?
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