Merged: Musk buys Twitter!/ Elon Musk puts Twitter deal on hold....

[Skeptic Ginger]

Told ya so waaay back at the beginning of the thread on page 5! It's a pattern like Lucy pulling up the football.


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0#post13793770

[dudalb]

Musk has damaged not just his public image but lost creditbility in the business world over this. He is getting a reputation as being unstable, and major banks and investment companies hate instablity. He might still get some loans, but they will be looked at more closely and the interest will be higher.

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Told ya so waaay back at the beginning of the thread on page 5! It's a pattern like Lucy pulling up the football.


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0#post13793770

In fact, I beat you by two posts...

Originally Posted by angrysoba

His antics almost make it look like he's trying to scupper the purchase but in a way that he can blame Twitter.

"The deal is off because you broke the rules"
"See? They hate free speech. They used a heckler's veto. Oh well... I tried guys, but the game is rigged. It's rigged I tells ya!"

[Puppycow]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Looks like it is off. Can’t say I’m surprised.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/08/t...xit/index.html

Quote:

New York (CNN Business)Elon Musk moved Friday afternoon to terminate his $44 billion deal to buy Twitter — the latest twist in a whirlwind process in which the billionaire Tesla CEO became the company's biggest shareholder, turned down a board seat, agreed to buy the social media platform and then started raising doubts about going through with the deal. The next chapter in the saga is almost certain to be a court battle.

A lawyer representing Musk claimed in a letter to Twitter's top lawyer that he is ending the deal because Twitter (TWTR) is "in material breach of multiple provisions" of the original agreement, which was signed in April, according to a regulatory filing Friday evening.

Quote:

"The Twitter Board is committed to closing the transaction on the price and terms agreed upon with Mr. Musk and plans to pursue legal action to enforce the merger agreement," Twitter board chair Bret Taylor said in a tweet Friday, echoing earlier statements by the company that it planned to follow through with the deal. "We are confident we will prevail in the Delaware Court of Chancery."

But the story goes on to say that Twitter shares fell 5% on the news, while Tesla shares rose 1%.

[The Great Zaganza]

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Now lawsuits over the deposit!

Musk will fullfil all his contractual obligations.... in 50 or 60 years or so

[zooterkin]

Musk might be forced to complete the purchase or pay a hefty fine.

Quote:

Under the terms of the agreement the company can ask a judge for “specific performance”, which would compel Musk to buy the company for the $54.20 a share he agreed to in April. Alternatively, the company can also seek a $1bn break fee from Musk for walking away from the deal in contravention of the agreement.

Quinn said Musk’s arguments would probably fail in court. In Friday’s letter, Musk put forward three broad arguments: that Twitter had breached the agreement by failing to provide enough information on spam accounts; that Twitter has misrepresented the number of spam accounts in its disclosures to the US financial watchdog; and that the company breached the agreement by failing to consult with Musk when firing senior employees recently.

[dudalb]

You have to wonder if the reason Musk wants out is he found out ever if buys it he won't be able to have total control like he does with his other companies,that the Tiwtter BOD will have the ultimate say, not Musk.

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Musk might be forced to complete the purchase or pay a hefty fine.

Yep, but it seems that even if he pays the fee for breaking the contract it will almost certainly be cheaper than buying Twitter which is currently worth so many billions less than what he agreed to buy it for.

[Babbylonian]

Originally Posted by dudalb

You have to wonder if the reason Musk wants out is he found out ever if buys it he won't be able to have total control like he does with his other companies,that the Tiwtter BOD will have the ultimate say, not Musk.

Nope. If he owns the company the board serves at his pleasure, as any board of directors serves at the pleasure of the majority of their stockholders.

[Babbylonian]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Yep, but it seems that even if he pays the fee for breaking the contract it will almost certainly be cheaper than buying Twitter which is currently worth so many billions less than what he agreed to buy it for.

Yeah. The billion-dollar fine is virtually irrelevant. He acted recklessly and regrets it because just tendering the offer resulted in a reduction of his net worth.

[Puppycow]

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

Yeah. The billion-dollar fine is virtually irrelevant. He acted recklessly and regrets it because just tendering the offer resulted in a reduction of his net worth.

I do get the sense that it was an impulsive decision, and one that he wishes he could undo.

Musk likes to talk a big game, but often fails to deliver.

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

Yeah. The billion-dollar fine is virtually irrelevant. He acted recklessly and regrets it because just tendering the offer resulted in a reduction of his net worth.

But also, backing out of the deal, while a lesser financial punishment could result in a bigger reputational loss, which frankly seems to be something he has been doing for a while now. I don't know if it is hubris or he thinks that behaving like some "maverick" is good for him, but he seems to act as if nothing he does or says has consequences beyond the share prices of various companies.

Also, another serious misjudgment of his seemed to be throwing in his lot with the Republicans. It may have "triggered the libs" to say he will now vote Republican because the Democrats are meanies, but judging by Trump's comments about Musk being a BS artist, he might have lost a large chunk of right-wing supporters as well. Whether or not Get woke, go broke is true, if you fellate the right, you end up a right sucker.

[Dr. Keith]

Please point to any consequences he has faced in the last ten years for things he does or says, other than an impact on his wealth that is relatively inconsequential.

[Fast Eddie B]

Looks like Twitter might be getting serious…

[plague311]

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

Please point to any consequences he has faced in the last ten years for things he does or says, other than an impact on his wealth that is relatively inconsequential.

He has a gaggle of kids. Those are are both financially and emotionally impact. The man can't stop having kids.

Other than that, you're right though.

[Dr. Keith]

Originally Posted by plague311

He has a gaggle of kids. Those are are both financially and emotionally impact. The man can't stop having kids.

Other than that, you're right though.

At his level of wealth having kids is less of a financial impact. As a percentage of wealth it is a bit like me having goldfish. Sure, there’s a cost but it doesn’t make a dent in my bottom line.

And where did you get the idea that he can feel emotions? I mean, other than being insulted or needing more attention.

//That sounds more confrontational than I intended. Sorry about that. Agreeing vehemently?///

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

Please point to any consequences he has faced in the last ten years for things he does or says, other than an impact on his wealth that is relatively inconsequential.

Originally Posted by plague311

He has a gaggle of kids. Those are are both financially and emotionally impact. The man can't stop having kids.

Other than that, you're right though.

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

At his level of wealth having kids is less of a financial impact. As a percentage of wealth it is a bit like me having goldfish. Sure, there’s a cost but it doesn’t make a dent in my bottom line.

And where did you get the idea that he can feel emotions? I mean, other than being insulted or needing more attention.

//That sounds more confrontational than I intended. Sorry about that. Agreeing vehemently?///

Ha ha! You are not wrong. That said, I have to wonder if there is a point at which potential investors will start to wonder how much he can be trusted. Obviously Space X and Tesla allow him a lot of slack because of the achievements of these companies, but I think there is only so much damage you can do to your reputation before people start to wonder if he is a stable genius after all.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by plague311

He has a gaggle of kids. Those are are both financially and emotionally impact. The man can't stop having kids.

He has four. Two from his first marriage, after losing one to SIDS, and two from his current marriage. That's hardly extreme - my own brother has the same.

[Puppycow]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

He has four.

Apparently he has nine, not four.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Apparently he has nine, not four.

Wikipedia acknowledges another two unacknowledged and born to a problematic affair. Where do you get the other three from?

[Puppycow]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Wikipedia acknowledges another two unacknowledged and born to a problematic affair. Where do you get the other three from?

Don't know how to use Google?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenaeba...h=3ce9825313b9

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Don't know how to use Google?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenaeba...h=3ce9825313b9

Ah. I misread. In his first marriage he had twins and triplets. My mistake. I am suitably chastised. Yeah, that's a gaggle.

[angrysoba]

To be fair, Elon Musk is being consistent here. He is always worried about the decline in births in the west and wants to do something to reverse it. So he is doing his part, I suppose. Still, it could be a little dangerous to have so many half-brothers and half-sisters running around in a decreasing gene pool. Accidents can happen.

[angrysoba]

And bonus points for triggering the libs, of course.

While right-wingers can wag their fingers at the poor for having children and broken homes, it is cool for the rich to do the same.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

To be fair, Elon Musk is being consistent here. He is always worried about the decline in births in the west and wants to do something to reverse it. So he is doing his part, I suppose. Still, it could be a little dangerous to have so many half-brothers and half-sisters running around in a decreasing gene pool. Accidents can happen.

Well, one of his kids has disowned him now, so we could say eight.

[The Great Zaganza]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Well, one of his kids has disowned him now, so we could say eight.

just means that his kid is more responsible than he is.

[Puppycow]

Elon Musk and the World’s Biggest Case of Buyer’s Remorse

Quote:

The $1 billion breakup fee here is part of the April agreement between Musk and Twitter. But Musk can’t just pay a fee and walk away — it only applies if regulators scuttle the deal, which isn’t happening, or if there’s fraud or some other major problem.

The upshot here is that, whether or not Musk wants to wriggle out of the deal, there is a contract he signed that holds him to the terms he agreed to.

Is that true? What counts as a "major problem"? He cannot merely decide to pay $1 billion to walk away from the deal?

[The Great Zaganza]

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Elon Musk and the World’s Biggest Case of Buyer’s Remorse



Is that true? What counts as a "major problem"? He cannot merely decide to pay $1 billion to walk away from the deal?

an argument could be made that his actions and comments have tanked Twitter values so much that the only way to make the shareholders whole is for Musk to buy it at the price he offered, and not leave it at the price he tanked it to.

There is precedent, but it's shaky.

[Puppycow]

Yeah, I imagine that a class-action lawsuit against Musk is Plan B. But that’s for another day. For now, it’s taking him to court to enforce the contract. I don’t buy individual stocks but I am kind of interested in buying Twitter at the current price. After all, it’s discounted if Musk has to buy it at $54/share. But that’s all contingent on a legal outcome that I can’t say for sure is certain.

[The Great Zaganza]

Economists would say that the current price of Twitter reflects the Market's opinion that Musk won't buy Twitter and no one else will do so either anytime soon.

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Elon Musk and the World’s Biggest Case of Buyer’s Remorse



Is that true? What counts as a "major problem"? He cannot merely decide to pay $1 billion to walk away from the deal?

He isn't going to do that when he could keep it held up in the courts for years at the mere cost of what 20 million a year? Not a bad rate to borrow a billion dollars.

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Wikipedia acknowledges another two unacknowledged and born to a problematic affair. Where do you get the other three from?

Ten, according to this.
Even more than Boris Johnson (though that number has a certain degree of uncertainty).

[I Am The Scum]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Ah. I misread. In his first marriage he had twins and triplets. My mistake. I am suitably chastised. Yeah, that's a gaggle.

Hopefully he finds himself the centerpiece in an Agatha Christie style aristocratic drama.

[Jim_MDP]

With the 4 or 5 billion from a few months ago (remember the poll asking if he should sell a bit of Tesla?) and the 8 or 10b for the Twitter deal, he should now have a new 12 to 15 billion in actual, real, liquid money in the bank.
As I suspect this was the real reason behind the entire Twitter debacle (is any legal ramification potential for some of that "other problems" mentioned upthread)... does anyone have a reliable account of how much real "cash on hand" he had prior to all this?
Hundreds of billions in Tesla stock isn't that handy if its ridiculous (over)valuation is primarily because you (Elon) haven't sold any. Honestly, how bad do you imagine the terms would be to get any major lender to front you cash against Tesla stock?
And a mere 50 billion in lost value is not a bad deal if you now have 10b or more in real bucks to do as you please.

So, anyone... was he cash flush before? Or not.

[The Great Zaganza]

What would be the point of being cash flush with billions, especially in times of high inflation?
It's not like it's possible to carry a billion around with you.

[I Am The Scum]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

What would be the point of being cash flush with billions, especially in times of high inflation?
It's not like it's possible to carry a billion around with you.

I guarantee he's asked a lawyer if he can get his cash to Mars to avoid paying child support.

[Jim_MDP]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

What would be the point of being cash flush with billions, especially in times of high inflation?
It's not like it's possible to carry a billion around with you.

Hey... when AmEx says the Black card has no limit, they mean NO LIMIT!

[angrysoba]

Well, predictably this is all going to court now...

Quote:

Twitter has taken billionaire Elon Musk to court to try to force him to buy the social media firm, setting up a legal battle with the world's richest man.

It comes after Mr Musk announced he was walking away from his proposed $44bn acquisition of Twitter on Friday.

He claimed Twitter had not given information about the number of fake and spam accounts on the platform.

Now Twitter has asked a Delaware court to order Mr Musk to complete the merger at the agreed $54.20 per Twitter share.

"Having mounted a public spectacle to put Twitter in play, and having proposed and then signed a seller-friendly merger agreement, [Mr] Musk apparently believes that he - unlike every other party subject to Delaware contract law - is free to change his mind, trash the company, disrupt its operations, destroy stockholder value, and walk away," said the lawsuit.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-62144776

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Is that true? What counts as a "major problem"? He cannot merely decide to pay $1 billion to walk away from the deal?

As I seem to continually have to point out, Musk's (and other billionaires') wealth is not in the form of cash sitting around in big Scrooge McDuck style money bins. It's in assets, specifically the stock value of the companies he holds a majority share in. To simply pay $1billion, he would have to liquidate a non-trivial amount of that, and that's not something that you can just decide to do.

[Jim_MDP]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

As I seem to continually have to point out, Musk's (and other billionaires') wealth is not in the form of cash sitting around in big Scrooge McDuck style money bins. It's in assets, specifically the stock value of the companies he holds a majority share in. To simply pay $1billion, he would have to liquidate a non-trivial amount of that, and that's not something that you can just decide to do.

That's why I mentioned the couple things I did...

Was he cash flush before? Honest question, and no I don't know if this economy effects whether he wants to be or not.
Second, was the Twitter kerfuffle a ruse to bank value from over valued Tesla stock he can't just sell without taking a stock price hit. See the two times he has sold chunks of his holding. He does hold a couple hundred billion in TSLA though so it might have been a smart move.
But... is doing so against the rules? Does he carry any legal responsibility for that overvaluation? Not taking value out is what kept what's her name from a lengthy prison stretch over the Theranos fallout. Is Elon at risk?