ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Agenda 21 , UN conspiracies

Reply
Old 31st May 2015, 02:51 PM   #1
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
 
Travis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,886
Why the conspiracies around environmentalism?

Again and again we see that so many seem to think that the environmentalist cause is actually about sowing death or destruction. From chemtrailers who think depopulation is a thing to the anti Agenda 21 crowd.

Take this lady who recently spoke at the Vatican.

Quote:
According to Madise, Sachs and his ilk push policy initiatives at the U.N. “that are radically antagonistic to the right to life from conception to natural death, to the rights and dignity of the family.”


Madise also has criticisms for the Holy See and U.S. President Barack Obama. The former, she says, has sold out to pursuers of a “global population-control agenda.” “Pope Francis,” Madise laments, believes “humanity and mankind are behind of 99 percent of the climate change.”


“Environmental issues in international negotiations are not about planting trees,” Madise warns her audience, but about “killing babies, the infirm and the elderly.”
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/anti...ture-of-death/

I've been around a lot of environmentalists. A lot. Never have I encountered anyone that desired killing babies, the infirm or the elderly. Actually preserving quality of life was at the fore. Keeping people alive was the agenda. I have also yet to encounter a single policy proposal from any environmental group that would lead to those situations. No culling. No mass baby slaughter. No genocide of the elderly.

So...what gives? How is it that someone looks at something so harmless and potentially awesome like Agenda 21 and see such malice? How does someone hear "reduce your footprint" and think it means people need to be murdered?
__________________
"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
Zingiber Officinale

Travis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st May 2015, 03:33 PM   #2
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,854
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Again and again we see that so many seem to think that the environmentalist cause is actually about sowing death or destruction. From chemtrailers who think depopulation is a thing to the anti Agenda 21 crowd.

Take this lady who recently spoke at the Vatican.



http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/anti...ture-of-death/

I've been around a lot of environmentalists. A lot. Never have I encountered anyone that desired killing babies, the infirm or the elderly. Actually preserving quality of life was at the fore. Keeping people alive was the agenda. I have also yet to encounter a single policy proposal from any environmental group that would lead to those situations. No culling. No mass baby slaughter. No genocide of the elderly.

So...what gives? How is it that someone looks at something so harmless and potentially awesome like Agenda 21 and see such malice? How does someone hear "reduce your footprint" and think it means people need to be murdered?
A bit more information on the subject

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Depopul...spiracy_theory
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st May 2015, 10:36 PM   #3
threadworm
Graduate Poster
 
threadworm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,567
The hysterical mouth-frothing at Agenda 21 gives them the fear because the responses to global issues like overpopulation and climate change require a co-ordinated global response and that means (dan-dan-daaaaaaaaaaaaaaa) ONE WORLD GLOBAL ALIEN LIZARD GOVERNMENT. This is, of course, what every conspiracy is nudging the world towards because our all powerful overlords want us to march willingly into the ovens - saves a lot of fuss.

It's just another facet of their deluded paranoia.

I was taught about Agenda 21 at University over 25 years ago - hasn't had much impact yet.
__________________
Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to.

**************************

Apollo Hoax Debunked
threadworm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st May 2015, 10:53 PM   #4
Jango
Graduate Poster
 
Jango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: United States of America
Posts: 1,688
Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
The hysterical mouth-frothing at Agenda 21 gives them the fear because the responses to global issues like overpopulation and climate change require a co-ordinated global response and that means (dan-dan-daaaaaaaaaaaaaaa) ONE WORLD GLOBAL ALIEN LIZARD GOVERNMENT. This is, of course, what every conspiracy is nudging the world towards because our all powerful overlords want us to march willingly into the ovens - saves a lot of fuss.

It's just another facet of their deluded paranoia.

I was taught about Agenda 21 at University over 25 years ago - hasn't had much impact yet.
Predating its 1992 passing in the U.N.?
Jango is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st May 2015, 11:06 PM   #5
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,854
Originally Posted by Jango View Post
Predating its 1992 passing in the U.N.?
The final text was the result of drafting, consultation, and negotiation, beginning in 1989 and culminating at the two-week conference.

It was discussed in a lot of venues prior.
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st May 2015, 11:14 PM   #6
Jango
Graduate Poster
 
Jango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: United States of America
Posts: 1,688
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
The final text was the result of drafting, consultation, and negotiation, beginning in 1989 and culminating at the two-week conference.

It was discussed in a lot of venues prior.
Ah. Thanks.
Jango is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st May 2015, 11:40 PM   #7
MG1962
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,252
Originally Posted by Travis View Post

So...what gives? How is it that someone looks at something so harmless and potentially awesome like Agenda 21 and see such malice? How does someone hear "reduce your footprint" and think it means people need to be murdered?
The United Nations. A lot of our conspiracy fans are convinced the UN is the public face of the NWO and only exists to destroy the USA.
MG1962 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st May 2015, 11:43 PM   #8
threadworm
Graduate Poster
 
threadworm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,567
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
The final text was the result of drafting, consultation, and negotiation, beginning in 1989 and culminating at the two-week conference.

It was discussed in a lot of venues prior.
Yep, that. I graduated with my first degree in 1989.
__________________
Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to.

**************************

Apollo Hoax Debunked
threadworm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st June 2015, 05:46 AM   #9
spooky24
Scholar
 
spooky24's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 116
It seems to me that some of you can't distinguish between satire and truth.

Roger Waters said:

Have a good drown
As you go down
All alone
Dragged down by the stone

He said this was aimed at the British monarchy and their new world order.

He admitted that he was overindulging in the notion that the new world order-in his eyes was a Marxist Leninist take over that was a conspiracy involving the British and Americans.

He also said it was political satire outside the realm of possibility.

Agenda 21 and Sustainable Development is also the extreme of political satire.

I have the text of Michael Shaw assault on unalienable rights and individual liberty speech.

It is oblivious satire. He knows that so much of his speech is halfass recruitment for donations-aimed at such patrons who do not know the difference.

Easily seen here.
spooky24 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st June 2015, 11:43 AM   #10
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
 
Travis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,886
So the woman who thinks this is about killing babies isn't serious?
__________________
"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
Zingiber Officinale

Travis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2019, 12:26 PM   #11
snoop4truth
Student
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Again and again we see that so many seem to think that the environmentalist cause is actually about sowing death or destruction. From chemtrailers who think depopulation is a thing to the anti Agenda 21 crowd.

Take this lady who recently spoke at the Vatican.


LINK DELETED SO AS TO ALLOW ME TO COMMENT


I've been around a lot of environmentalists. A lot. Never have I encountered anyone that desired killing babies, the infirm or the elderly. Actually preserving quality of life was at the fore. Keeping people alive was the agenda. I have also yet to encounter a single policy proposal from any environmental group that would lead to those situations. No culling. No mass baby slaughter. No genocide of the elderly.

So...what gives? How is it that someone looks at something so harmless and potentially awesome like Agenda 21 and see such malice? How does someone hear "reduce your footprint" and think it means people need to be murdered?
Hello Travis,

I am new.

I will post an explanation once I have exceeded 15 posts.

Best Regards,

Snoop
snoop4truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2019, 12:37 PM   #12
snoop4truth
Student
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
I was taught about Agenda 21 at University over 25 years ago - hasn't had much impact yet.
Hello threadworm,

There is a very good reason that Agenda 21 has had little impact here in the United States.

It was only a SUGGESTION that member nations in the United Nations were PERMITTED, BUT NOT REQUIRED to adopt for themselves.

It was EFFECTIVELY REJECTED by the United States (Bush symbolically signed it, but because it was not a "treaty", it was not binding in the United States without a majority vote of Congress.).

As a result, it is NOT THE LAW in the United States, IS NOT IN FORCE in the United States and IS NOT ENFORCED anywhere in the United States.

As a result, it is completely irrelevant in the United States.

I will post more on this subject when I have completed my 15 initial posts.

All The Best,

Snoop
snoop4truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2019, 12:44 PM   #13
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 7,931
Forced depopulation is how authoritarians would solve environmental problems caused by overpopulation.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2019, 12:45 PM   #14
snoop4truth
Student
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by spooky24 View Post
It seems to me that some of you can't distinguish between satire and truth.

Roger Waters said:

Have a good drown
As you go down
All alone
Dragged down by the stone

He said this was aimed at the British monarchy and their new world order.

He admitted that he was overindulging in the notion that the new world order-in his eyes was a Marxist Leninist take over that was a conspiracy involving the British and Americans.

He also said it was political satire outside the realm of possibility.

Agenda 21 and Sustainable Development is also the extreme of political satire.

I have the text of Michael Shaw assault on unalienable rights and individual liberty speech.

It is oblivious satire. He knows that so much of his speech is halfass recruitment for donations-aimed at such patrons who do not know the difference.

Easily seen here.
Hello Spooky24,

Whatever satire Roger Waters and others may intend by their Agenda21claims, there are people who make non-satirical claims about Agenda 21 with the intent to horrify and terrorize the public.

Debra Tavares is one example.

Best Regards,

Snoop
snoop4truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2019, 01:36 PM   #15
bknight
Graduate Poster
 
bknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,475
Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
The hysterical mouth-frothing at Agenda 21 gives them the fear because the responses to global issues like overpopulation and climate change require a co-ordinated global response and that means (dan-dan-daaaaaaaaaaaaaaa) ONE WORLD GLOBAL ALIEN LIZARD GOVERNMENT. This is, of course, what every conspiracy is nudging the world towards because our all powerful overlords want us to march willingly into the ovens - saves a lot of fuss.

It's just another facet of their deluded paranoia.

I was taught about Agenda 21 at University over 25 years ago - hasn't had much impact yet.
I guess my college education bypassed this bit of information, or maybe I was too busy to deal with conspiracies while doing school work.
ETA: From further review of new threads I see I predate your college experience by a couple of decades.

Last edited by bknight; 7th May 2019 at 01:41 PM. Reason: Additional thouth
bknight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2019, 04:06 PM   #16
snoop4truth
Student
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
The hysterical mouth-frothing at Agenda 21 gives them the fear because the responses to global issues like overpopulation and climate change require a co-ordinated global response and that means (dan-dan-daaaaaaaaaaaaaaa) ONE WORLD GLOBAL ALIEN LIZARD GOVERNMENT. This is, of course, what every conspiracy is nudging the world towards because our all powerful overlords want us to march willingly into the ovens - saves a lot of fuss.

It's just another facet of their deluded paranoia.

I was taught about Agenda 21 at University over 25 years ago - hasn't had much impact yet.
threadworm,

I agree with your sentiments in the quote above.

Above, in another post, I indicated to you that I would post my explanation of the Agenda 21 Hoax here once I reached 15 posts.

But, I am being criticized for posting my explanation of the Agenda 21 Hoax in more than one location.

So, it appears that if you would like to read my work on the subject, you will have to find it on another thread.

My apologies for any inconvenience.

All The Best,

Snoop

Last edited by snoop4truth; 7th May 2019 at 04:18 PM.
snoop4truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 10:40 AM   #17
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
 
Hellbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 13,408
snoop:

If you're waiting to 15 to post a URL, you can post it now in a modified format and someone will repost it as a valid link for you, for example, typing the dots:

www dot google dot com

It's not against the rules; the 15 post rule is there specifically to prevent spam bots, not to prevent new members from posting information.
__________________
Ideologies separate us. Dreams and anguish bring us together. - Eugene Ionesco
Hellbound is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 11:02 AM   #18
Elagabalus
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,220
Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
The hysterical mouth-frothing at Agenda 21 gives them the fear because the responses to global issues like overpopulation and climate change require a co-ordinated global response and that means (dan-dan-daaaaaaaaaaaaaaa) ONE WORLD GLOBAL ALIEN LIZARD GOVERNMENT. This is, of course, what every conspiracy is nudging the world towards because our all powerful overlords want us to march willingly into the ovens - saves a lot of fuss.

It's just another facet of their deluded paranoia.

I was taught about Agenda 21 at University over 25 years ago - hasn't had much impact yet.
ONE WORLD GLOBAL ALIEN LIZARD GOVERNMENT which is an anagram for ... GONDWANALAND!! That's what those fiends want us to go back to!!
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 12:08 PM   #19
bknight
Graduate Poster
 
bknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,475
I do believe that there is global warming, just view the ice caps several years apart. This seems to be correlated to when man stated burning fossil fuels from the iron age forward. However what I am with odds is that mankind is totally responsible for global warming, it might be just a natural cyclic environmental event or maybe a combination of both. To that end mankind's reduction in fossil fuels emissions may or may not be constructive. And I think that should be the debate, although it is not. I have seen both sides from my friends and associates. It will help of course(every little bit helps), but it may not reverse or even stabilize the current situation.
bknight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 08:36 PM   #20
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
 
Travis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,886
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Forced depopulation is how authoritarians would solve environmental problems caused by overpopulation.

The Thanos approach to problem solving.
__________________
"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
Zingiber Officinale

Travis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th May 2019, 06:03 PM   #21
Allen773
Muse
 
Allen773's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cali Four Neea
Posts: 970
Is this the part of the thread where we talk about Hitler being an environmentalist and vegan or something?
Allen773 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th May 2019, 09:37 PM   #22
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
 
Hellbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 13,408
Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
Is this the part of the thread where we talk about Hitler being an environmentalist and vegan or something?
Knock yourself out.





No, really, I mean that literally. Please apply a sap liberally to the back of your head, and knock yourself out.

__________________
Ideologies separate us. Dreams and anguish bring us together. - Eugene Ionesco
Hellbound is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th May 2019, 11:58 PM   #23
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 16,480
I don't think there's any doubt that many if not most environmentalists think that the sustainable population of Earth is a number quite a bit lower than the current population. From there to "they're going to kill us all," is a logical step--for a conspiracy nutter.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th May 2019, 01:00 AM   #24
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,339
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I don't think there's any doubt that many if not most environmentalists think that the sustainable population of Earth is a number quite a bit lower than the current population. From there to "they're going to kill us all," is a logical step--for a conspiracy nutter.
There is a humane way to go about it if you're willing to wait a few generations to get there. It has to do with educating women, liberating them and giving them access to birth control. Nothing need be compulsory. Economic development and liberal social policies and feminism seem to do the trick.

I started a thread about it in the science forum, but not everyone agreed with me that lower populations would be desirable in the long run:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=335916

Just to be clear: within the constraint conditions of not ruining our planet in a few decades or a few hundred years, I would still prefer a relative large human population. But long-term sustainability is still an important goal.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th May 2019, 02:26 AM   #25
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,451
Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
The United Nations. A lot of our conspiracy fans are convinced the UN is the public face of the NWO and only exists to destroy the USA.
And Donald's an agent?
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th May 2019, 11:46 AM   #26
Allen773
Muse
 
Allen773's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cali Four Neea
Posts: 970
Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Knock yourself out.





No, really, I mean that literally. Please apply a sap liberally to the back of your head, and knock yourself out.

I was merely pre-empting any actual nutters from bringing it up. :P
Allen773 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 04:54 AM   #27
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 20,155
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I don't think there's any doubt that many if not most environmentalists think that the sustainable population of Earth is a number quite a bit lower than the current population. From there to "they're going to kill us all," is a logical step--for a conspiracy nutter.
Citations for this claim?
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 06:18 AM   #28
Roboramma
Penultimate Amazing
 
Roboramma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 12,214
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Citations for this claim?
Only because it's not clear, did you mean to highlight the rest of that sentence?

"many if not most environmentalists think that the sustainable population of Earth is a number quite a bit lower than the current population."
__________________
"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."
Isaac Asimov
Roboramma is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:08 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.