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Old Yesterday, 07:05 PM   #1321
carlitos
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
We've been through this, or maybe it was someone else. I'm sorry you had a bad experience. For me, and everyone I knew, it was a cakewalk.




This is a lie and you are a liar.
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Old Yesterday, 07:22 PM   #1322
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
As for the motivation to create the vaccine...... in my opinion, the first motive was to serve a big market and make money..
I'll will tell those heartless "commies" of your opinion as to their evil commercial goal.

"In the course of campaigns for the mass immunization of large segments of the population of the Soviet Union with live poliovirus vaccine prepared in the USSR from attenuated Sabin strains, some 15 200 000 persons received oral vaccine in 1959 and over 77 478 800 persons (mainly between 2 months and 20 years old) in 1960".
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2555546/
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Old Yesterday, 07:24 PM   #1323
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
This is a lie and you are a liar.
My name is Steve and I approve of this message.
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Old Yesterday, 07:28 PM   #1324
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
So why couldn't the other side easily expose those lies with their mountain of science?
Why can't expert anti-vaxxers not argue in writing? The answer is that they would get demolished just like you are here.
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Old Yesterday, 07:39 PM   #1325
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
If measles is such a killer, and nearly every individual in those days was going to catch it, why was there no public fear like there is today when your chance of catching measles is next to nil? (thanks to vaccines)



Did they just stoically accept their fate because there was no alternative? So much so that TV shows would mock the public and make light of their fate?
I already described how it was when I was a child in the 50's in Denmark. It was regarded as deadly serious, but everyone got it at some point, so it was considered better to get it as a child when the risk was lower.

In a way you can say that people stoically accepted their fate. But you are dead wrong when you think that meant that there was no risk.
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Old Yesterday, 07:49 PM   #1326
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
Nobody's forcing you into tyranny. By creating fear in the public, the public will welcome draconian measures if they think that will protect them.
So why are you promoting tyranny by being a fearmonger?
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Old Yesterday, 08:24 PM   #1327
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
I'll will tell those heartless "commies" of your opinion as to their evil commercial goal.

"In the course of campaigns for the mass immunization of large segments of the population of the Soviet Union with live poliovirus vaccine prepared in the USSR from attenuated Sabin strains, some 15 200 000 persons received oral vaccine in 1959 and over 77 478 800 persons (mainly between 2 months and 20 years old) in 1960".
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2555546/
It was during the Cold War and a year or two before the Sabin vaccine was commercially available.

Communism is a form of tyranny, in my opinion. Could the Russian people have been used as a big testing ground for the vaccine? Didn't they have to get the attenuated Sabin strains from the US? During the Cold War? How did that work?
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Old Yesterday, 08:28 PM   #1328
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
So why are you promoting tyranny by being a fearmonger?
Promoting choice doesn't promote tyranny.
Promoting forced vaccination does. ETA: Regardless of all the benefits.
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Old Yesterday, 09:06 PM   #1329
RecoveringYuppy
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
Promoting choice doesn't promote tyranny.
You're promoting fear.

Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
Promoting forced vaccination does. ETA: Regardless of all the benefits.
How many children are you willing to kill to achieve this society you seem to prefer?
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Old Yesterday, 09:20 PM   #1330
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
You're promoting fear.
To what end?
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Old Yesterday, 09:39 PM   #1331
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
Promoting choice doesn't promote tyranny.
Promoting forced vaccination does. ETA: Regardless of all the benefits.
Vaccines are not "forced" in the United States of America. You are allowed to skip vaccines as long you are okay in just a few states to home school kids, or work someplace else if you a medical care provider. This is pretty much the same in Canada, even in the three provinces where vaccinations are "mandatory" to attend school they allow exemptions: https://healthydebate.ca/2014/05/top...y-vaccinations

Proof that they are not "forced" is there are have been measles cases on our side of border by those visiting relatives in Abbotsford, BC.

Also, as a citizen in Canada you should not argue "tyranny" when it is known that the RCMP has greater freedom to monitor citizens than the FBI in the USA, and that many journalists were not allowed through the border during the Olympics held in Vancouver due their critical articles.

As someone with several in-laws just north of the border who we visit, we are more cognizant of the American first amendment rights that do not exist there. One of best illustration of the difference between in laws between the USA and Canada is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v_Burns

Please stop lying.


I missed your answer on the names of the scientists that Robert Kennedy, jr is listening to. Please repeat those, and include their educational background.
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Last edited by Chris Haynes; Yesterday at 09:41 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 09:40 PM   #1332
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
To what end?

You tell us.
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Old Yesterday, 09:40 PM   #1333
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
To what end?
And yet you remain in Canada. Where your evil government provides a single-payer healthcare system for its enslaved population. Down here we're "Free" to rack up crippling medical bills because we know that Socialized Medicine will force awful things upon us, like insisting on better dietary habits, gun laws to keep bullets out our bodies, and worst of all - exercise.

Just drive south and you can live in one of our fine, independent states were you're not forced to vaccinate your kids because the Flying Spaghetti Monster forbids it. Or maybe you want us to invade so was can free the crap out of your country instead. Our President is looking for a war, drop him a line.

You talk a good game but I don't see you fleeing to Costa Rica anytime soon (you'd need to get a battery of vaccinations if you do).
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Old Yesterday, 09:49 PM   #1334
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
...
You talk a good game but I don't see you fleeing to Costa Rica anytime soon (you'd need to get a battery of vaccinations if you do).

How is the dengue situation there? I got dengue fever in Venezuela, I have no desire to repeat the experience. Especially since the second time around can be more deadly.


Oh, dengue fever exposes the lie of "natural immunity." Getting another strain is more dangerous, which is why it has been difficult to create a vaccine. The only real solution is to rid the entire American continent of the aedes aegypti mosquito. It is not a native species, but its spread continues northward from the southern states.
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Old Yesterday, 10:25 PM   #1335
RecoveringYuppy
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
To what end?
If you're going to make me answer that question for you based on what I've seen you post, I'd have to say you want to exterminate brown and black people by killing their children.
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Old Yesterday, 11:35 PM   #1336
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Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
Vaccines are not "forced" in the United States of America. You are allowed to skip vaccines as long you are okay in just a few states to home school kids, or work someplace else if you a medical care provider. This is pretty much the same in Canada, even in the three provinces where vaccinations are "mandatory" to attend school they allow exemptions: https://healthydebate.ca/2014/05/top...y-vaccinations

Proof that they are not "forced" is there are have been measles cases on our side of border by those visiting relatives in Abbotsford, BC.

Also, as a citizen in Canada you should not argue "tyranny" when it is known that the RCMP has greater freedom to monitor citizens than the FBI in the USA, and that many journalists were not allowed through the border during the Olympics held in Vancouver due their critical articles.

As someone with several in-laws just north of the border who we visit, we are more cognizant of the American first amendment rights that do not exist there. One of best illustration of the difference between in laws between the USA and Canada is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v_Burns

Please stop lying.


I missed your answer on the names of the scientists that Robert Kennedy, jr is listening to. Please repeat those, and include their educational background.
If I had the names and qualifications handy, I'd give them to you.

Tyranny is coming to Canada too. We're farther ahead in some ways. We live in a global society. Forced vaccination will eventually come to everyone's door in small steps. The US is closing off all but medical exemptions and making those more difficult to get. California is taking away the doctor's ability to write exemptions so some bureaucrat who doesn't know the child makes the decision.

The next step might be a wider rollout of the decree they made in NY where orthodox Jews had to show vaccination papers to enter government buildings. And so on, till eventually a law for everyone.

Or, something like Germany does. There, there's no law your child has to be vaccinated to go to school. But the schools have very strict regulations about vaccination. Homeschooling is not allowed. In my book, that's still 'forced', at least for children.

Try to see the hour hand move on an analog clock. It's constantly moving, but you can't see it move. Only if you look away for a while will you see that it has moved. Tyranny creeps along like that. People accept every new normal and don't see or believe they're living in a tyrannical system.

To me, the Chinese Social Credit System is full blown tyranny. I saw a 'man-in-the-street' interview where the person said they thought it was a great system because, "it made people more honest." So, that person didn't think they were living in tyrannical system. And even before the full Chinese rollout in 2020, it's being welcomed in the west in Darwin, Australia and in Venezuela so far.
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Old Yesterday, 11:44 PM   #1337
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
If you're going to make me answer that question for you based on what I've seen you post, I'd have to say you want to exterminate brown and black people by killing their children.
And I'm going to accomplish that by posting here?
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Old Yesterday, 11:55 PM   #1338
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
It was during the Cold War and a year or two before the Sabin vaccine was commercially available.
So what? You made a BS claim that laboratories developed vaccines for profit and I destroyed your BS claim by showing how communist Russia produced vaccines as they do in capitalist countries..

Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
Communism is a form of tyranny, in my opinion.
You didn't know that communists produced vaccines until ten minutes ago, when I told you. You don't know anything about communism either.
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Old Yesterday, 11:56 PM   #1339
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Life Inside China's Total Surveillance State
Wall Street Journal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ5LnY21Hgc (dur: 8:10)
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Old Today, 12:11 AM   #1340
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
Promoting choice doesn't promote tyranny.
Promoting forced vaccination does.
So if you had AIDS and still wanted to have unprotected sex.....only a tyrannical government would stop you having such a choice?

Have you told your neighbours about your political views?
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Old Today, 12:18 AM   #1341
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
Life Inside China's Total Surveillance State
Wall Street Journal .
Thankfully, the topic of this thread, is talking about the benefit of vaccinations and the Chinese government, like the rest of the planet, is promoting vaccines. You didn't know that, did you?

China National Immunization Programme is a government and academic organization. Its’ overall goal is to contribute to the control/elimination/eradication of vaccine-preventable diseases in China
https://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/i.../china_nip/en/
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Old Today, 12:24 AM   #1342
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
So what? You made a BS claim that laboratories developed vaccines for profit and I destroyed your BS claim by showing how communist Russia produced vaccines as they do in capitalist countries..

You didn't know that communists produced vaccines until ten minutes ago, when I told you. You don't know anything about communism either.
No, I didn't know the communists produced vaccines.
So, in Russia, the motive wasn't profit.
The authorities just wanted to do something for the good of 'the people' they cared so much about. Thanks for that info.

When I made the comment, I only had the US in mind, where I believe the vaccine was first developed.

I know enough about communism that I don't want to live in that system. Canada is part way there, but still tolerable for now.
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Old Today, 12:27 AM   #1343
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
Tyranny is coming to Canada too. Forced vaccination will eventually come to everyone's door in small steps.
Do you mean the Canadian people, will make their choice and may vote in a government that makes vaccinations mandatory?

You must really hate democracy.
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Old Today, 12:28 AM   #1344
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
So if you had AIDS and still wanted to have unprotected sex.....only a tyrannical government would stop you having such a choice?

Have you told your neighbours about your political views?
No. What you describe, or a drunk driver, is a clear and present danger.

An unvaccinated person is not.
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Old Today, 12:32 AM   #1345
Itchy Boy
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Do you mean the Canadian people, will make their choice and may vote in a government that makes vaccinations mandatory?

You must really hate democracy.
I don't know how it will creep in, exactly.

As I pointed out, Germany has no law, yet there's no way out of vaccinating your children except to leave the country.

ETA: I don't think people had any opportunity to vote on it.
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Last edited by Itchy Boy; Today at 12:34 AM.
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Old Today, 12:34 AM   #1346
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
No, I didn't know the communists produced vaccines. So, in Russia, the motive wasn't profit.
So your previous claim was total BS. I'm glad you are finally realising that making up crap claims is not working for you.

Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
I know enough about communism that I don't want to live in that system.
I'm sure the Bolsheviks didn't wan't your BS claims in their country either. They preferred science and academic research to benefit their people.
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Old Today, 12:41 AM   #1347
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
I don't know how it will creep in, exactly.
....by the people voting for a party with that policy. Am I going too fast for you to follow?

Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
ETA: I don't think people had any opportunity to vote on it.
....so you don't even know the policies of the major parties in Canada?

"Where the (Major Canadian) Parties Stand on Health Care."
3) Developing a strengthened National Immunization Strategy for Canada.

https://www.pharmacists.ca/advocacy/...n-health-care/
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Old Today, 12:51 AM   #1348
Itchy Boy
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
....by the people voting for a party with that policy. Am I going too fast for you to follow?

....so you don't even know the policies of the major parties in Canada?

"Where the (Major Canadian) Parties Stand on Health Care."
3) Developing a strengthened National Immunization Strategy for Canada.

https://www.pharmacists.ca/advocacy/...n-health-care/
I was talking about Germany. The schools have strict regulations about vaccination. I don't think people get to vote on regulations.
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Old Today, 02:09 AM   #1349
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post

It just takes a few minutes to find that the people who created the measles vaccine were doctors doing medical research, not companies.
In their simplistic, black and white world, everyrhing is "big pharma" because nuances don't exist.
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Old Today, 02:52 AM   #1350
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
I was talking about Germany. The schools have strict regulations about vaccination. I don't think people get to vote on regulations.
You mean "legislation" issued by the elected German government in the Bundestag. You don't seem to have any basic knowledge about politics, as well as science, academic research or communism, either.
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Old Today, 03:17 AM   #1351
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For the record.......

Itchy Boy, a self identified Canadian, has forgotten to mention that in March 2018, the Canadian chief public health officer, issued a press release about anti-vaccination trolls spreading false claims using social media. Itchy Boy is one of these trolls, and possibly Canadian.


"In an era where, thanks to the success of vaccines, we are no longer familiar with these dangerous illnesses, some parents have come to fear the prevention more than the disease,” said Tam, who is a physician with expertise in immunization.

“Seeds of doubt are often planted by misleading, or worse, entirely false information being spread in campaigns that target parents on social media and the internet. It is no wonder some parents are confused and concerned.”


So-called anti-vaxxers use social media to spread false information, with one popular claim being that vaccines cause autism. The proported link between the two is based on a fraudulent study that has since been withdrawn, and has also been debunked through scientific research.
https://www.nationalobserver.com/201...t-anti-vaxxers

///////////////////////////////////////////

Profit motive.
The Canadian anti vaccination websites anticipate people like itchy Boy, driving people to their website to make donations. It is like holocaust denial websites. The website's owners make profit from donations and don't really care if the holocaust was real or if vaccinations work. It is just a scam for profit facilitated by Itchy Boy.


A Canadian Anti vaccination website seeking money from the uneducated.
https://vaccinechoicecanada.com/

Itchy Boy? Are you a member of this organisation? Are you in contact with Heather Fraser, the owner?
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Old Today, 03:26 AM   #1352
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard
So if you had AIDS and still wanted to have unprotected sex.....only a tyrannical government would stop you having such a choice?
Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
No. What you describe, or a drunk driver, is a clear and present danger. An unvaccinated person is not.
...and how do you stop your, free will but infected member, carrying and spreading a disease. in public places, like polio?
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Old Today, 05:49 AM   #1353
JayUtah
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
To what end?
Only you can tell us what drives you. However, what drives most conspiracy theorists is pure ego reinforcement. Getting other people to fear what they themselves say they fear convinces them that they are the "woke" individuals they fancy themselves to be. You were right about people who create fear just so that others will beg them to save them from it, and thus come to see them as authorities or saviors. You just forgot that you were projecting. This I believe is why, despite your "save the children!" mantra, you display so little actual sympathy for people and the real dangers they face. You want to focus on the dangers you've made up for them -- government overreach, and how you're so smart as to have seen it through all the fog.
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Old Today, 05:56 AM   #1354
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
And I'm going to accomplish that by posting here?
I think what you hope to accomplish is ego reinforcement. Any engagement with opposition creates a situation in which ego reinforcement can occur, so long as the experience is carefully curated to avoid the most effective criticism. This, of course, is why you ignore so many of your critics. Oh, sure you make up excuses why they're somehow beneath your attention. But that rarely fools the reader. It doesn't have to. It only has to fool you.
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Old Today, 06:13 AM   #1355
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
You mean "legislation" issued by the elected German government in the Bundestag. You don't seem to have any basic knowledge about politics, as well as science, academic research or communism, either.
Yep, that's the essence of conspiracism. Whatever little knowledge the conspiracy theorist already has is all he'll ever bring to the table. And the problem is therefore tailored to match that knowledge, instead of expanding one's knowledge to fit the problem as it stands. This is why we hear arguments of the form, "I don't have to be competent in ______ to draw proper conclusions about it." And why we hear scenarios that sound like they were written by first-time thriller authors hoping to get a few people to shell out 99 cents for a Kindle edition of their fiction.

People who spend their lives learning statistics so that they can reason quantitatively in the face of uncertainty, or who study epidemiology because they are driven by the possibility of eradicataing disease, or who work tirelessly for effective public policy -- these are people who have the knowledge to do their jobs, but in the conspiracy world have to be relegated as villains. Sure, they have the knowledge. But in the conspiracy world they are morally bankrupt actors whom the conspiracist has somehow deftly detected by his superior moral and social wokeness. He knows he can never match his critics for actual knowledge, so he has to pivot the discussion to be about who can be trusted.

But in the end the conspiracy theorist holds neither the requisite knowledge nor the high moral ground. The villains in his narrative are simplistic, mustache-twirling farces. And the only hero is the conspiracist himself, who rarely is able to display convincing heroism.
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